anet is on a good direction.

[Sobx.1758]

13 hours ago, Poormany.4507 said:

Disagree with the OP on this one. GW2's at one of its lowest points atm for me. EoD was fine, then instead of getting several LW episodes/seasons and maps as many people who bought EoD expected, myself included, we got a single map with 1 hour of story that includes a lot of pointless filler content (carrying and stacking boxes as a story step, srsly?, random Kurzick rune sidequest, multiple copy-paste story battle sections). All this after over a year of waiting.

The new model is very risky with multiple issues that are already apparent:

• Probably no more large-scale expacs with long-term stories or new elite specs, at least for the next few years, if ever.
• Higher cost for less content that was previously free for regular players ($25 per year vs $30 every 4-5 years) for basically 2 or 3 LW episodes.
• The last of the 2-3 episodes is likely to be lower quality like Gyala since they'll mostly be focusing on the next expac at that point.
• Masteries are already feeling very niche (compare skiffs/fishing to mounts or gliding) so the new mini-expacs will quite possibly not include larger-scale ones as well, especially with the quicker development times needed for them. I find it very difficult to see Anet developing meaningful new large-scale systems like mounts or gliding with only a year or less of development time while working on QOL, fixes, and other stuff.

For now, I'm cautiously optimistic that Anet is just spending the majority of its resources/staff on the expac and that's why Gyala was poorer quality, and that they can pull off the new model successfully, as they surprised me with how good the mount system was in PoF, but my expectations are not that high rn.

Understand what's included in expansions, don't preorder, judge the worth of their contents in relation to the price and "worst case scenario" you're just... not paying for a game you don't think is worth it. What's the problem here?

 

4 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If people are going to pay a hypothetical 25€ and only receive droplets of content amounting to what we got with two Gyala Delve episodes (which together are less content than any single Season 3 or 4 episode), I don't mind them complaining over insufficient value for their money.

I personally won't like to pay more than 10€, if a mini expansion ends up being less than two Living World episodes.

If Gyala Delve is anything to go by, it's not unrealistic to think that a mini expansion will be less content than two Living World episodes.

What exactly are you basing this on? Because as far as I remember, the Gyala release is not somehow an equivalent of the new smaller expacs. They told us what it was and pretty sure it was not "one map with 1/5th(?) of it cut off to add it in later". And that's basically what Gyala was.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The issue is not simply the initial price being divided over a long period of time, averaging out as "pennies per hour". It's that some people expect an upfront value for their upfront payment. Some people don't want to wait half a year (or longer) when they paid the whole price upfront.

That's an irrelevant expectation in an MMO where we pay for access of content. Like, what 'upfront' value are you even talking about? We pay for a service. It doesn't come with a hot dog and a T shirt. If that upfront value is somehow related to an expectation of content 'quality' ... then those no-value complainers shouldn't have purchased the expansions without seeing more customer feedback or some assessment to past content quality. 

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If people are going to pay a hypothetical 25€ and only receive droplets of content amounting to what we got with two Gyala Delve episodes (which together are less content than any single Season 3 or 4 episode), I don't mind them complaining over insufficient value for their money.

Sure, but the problem here is that the game doesn't cater to individuals so the "I don't value the content" complaint is not something Anet could ever act on. The fact is that people have choice and can decide to purchase or not, based on what they value as content, history of the business, etc ... but, the consumer-business interaction here is going to be assessed initially and primarily by how players uptake to these releases. 

I mean, what stops skeptical buyers from just holding off and waiting to see if they purchase? Just themselves ... so who is really to blame for people making purchases and regretting because 'low value' or whatever else they aren't happy with? Themselves. 

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What exactly are you basing this on? Because as far as I remember, the Gyala release is not somehow an equivalent of the new smaller expacs. They told us what it was and pretty sure it was not "one map with 1/5th(?) of it cut off to add it in later". And that's basically what Gyala was.

Gyala Delve is the only content we have got since EoD released, so it's understandable that someone can imagine future content being in similar scope.

On my part, it's just a hypothetical example of what future content releases could be like, with nothing to base it on other than Gyala Delve is the latest two releases (and the only new content releases since EoD).

If Mini expansion are significantly more than what I mentioned, for example 2 PoF sized maps full of content, while the follow up releases are the size of a Living World Season 4 map, that'd be great. But I really can't imagine the mini expansions being that big.

[Sobx.1758]

23 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Gyala Delve is the only content we have got since EoD released, so it's understandable that someone can imagine future content being in similar scope.

But they told us what their plans for the future expansions are -and as far as we know, Gyala release is not it.

22 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

On my part, it's just a hypothetical example

So baseless, exactly.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Healix.5819]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If Gyala Delve is anything to go by, it's not unrealistic to think that a mini expansion will be less content than two Living World episodes.

Assuming mini expansions are yearly, the initial release should be the equivalent of the first 2 episodes of IBS, then Gyala is an example of what you can expect in between. 3 episodes per year is what they were previously managing, and they're wanting to do fractals and strikes now, so something had to be sacrificed to allow that.

[Gendalfs.7521]

Those mini expansions could work like steady income for Anet and great tool for us customers to vote with our wallet.

7 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So baseless, exactly.

Ofc baseless because of information scarcity and its logical to base expectations on experience.

 

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Ofc baseless because of information scarcity and its logical to base expectations on experience.

Not really, considering even the scarce information we've been given go against what he's apparently expecting. "There's not as much information as I'd want, so I'll make whatever I want, going against what we've been told!" is not even close to being "logical".

Edited June 13, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Fueki.4753]

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But they told us what their plans for the future expansions are -and as far as we know, Gyala release is not it.

I never claimed that Gyala Delve is part of the new release model. Yet it's undeniable that the size of the two Gyala Delve releases created concern over the content sizes that Arenanet may think are fine to give to their players.

10 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So baseless, exactly.

That's right, just like most "what if" situations are mostly baseless.

There is nothing to directly confirm the hypothesis, yet there also is nothing to deny its possibility.

After all, Arenanet didn't state anything about the intended sizes of their planned future releases (as far as I remember).

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I never claimed that Gyala Delve is part of the new release model.

...and where did I write you claimed that?

What you claimed though, is that new expansion could be comparable to the gyala release and according to what we know, it pretty much can't be. Isn't this what you said? Isn't this exactly what I'm commenting on?

5 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Yet it's undeniable that the size of the two Gyala Delve releases created concern over the content sizes that Arenanet may think are fine to give to their players.

👇

18 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But they told us what their plans for the future expansions are -and as far as we know, Gyala release is not it.

Did you miss what they told us about the expansion and how it compares to the "gyala release" or what's the issue here?

__

5 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

That's right, just like most "what if" situations are mostly baseless.

There is nothing to directly confirm the hypothesis, yet there also is nothing to deny its possibility.

That's false and I already wrote above why that's false. No matter how much you'd want to get more information (or w/e the struggle here is for), what we know already denies what you wrote as a hypothetical theory.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Fueki.4753]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Did you miss what they told us about the expansion and how it compares to the "gyala release" or what's the issue here?

What they told us is, that "the first release in an expansion cycle is the launch point for a new story arc, bringing with it two new open-world maps, two Strike Missions, new gameplay and combat features, new Masteries, and new rewards. In the following quarterly updates, we’ll add another open-world map, additional story chapters, challenge modes for the Strike Missions, a new fractal dungeon and challenge mode, new rewards, and additions to the new systems introduced in that expansion. Once that expansion’s story is complete, the next expansion will be just around the corner."

Nowhere does it say the maps are big or how long the fractals are. Nowhere do they say how long each story chapter will be. The Strike mission will probably be reused story bosses, but I don't mind that.

For all we know, the Open World maps may give us as little content as the Gyala Delve releases (which mostly just covers a map-wide meta) or less. For all we know, the story content may be as little as Gyala Delves (which wasn't much).

And all this might not be worth for everyone to spend hypothetical 25€ on, which is a number that reflects the "slightly lower cost" Arenanet mentioned.

 

[Gendalfs.7521]

Guys you know what is PR speech right?

Till we get more info its all theorycrafting.

[Sobx.1758]

27 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

What they told us is, that "the first release in an expansion cycle is the launch point for a new story arc, bringing with it two new open-world maps, two Strike Missions, new gameplay and combat features, new Masteries, and new rewards. In the following quarterly updates, we’ll add another open-world map, additional story chapters, challenge modes for the Strike Missions, a new fractal dungeon and challenge mode, new rewards, and additions to the new systems introduced in that expansion. Once that expansion’s story is complete, the next expansion will be just around the corner."

And in what way that's supposed to somehow fit the gyala release?
Exactly, it simply doesn't.

27 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Nowhere does it say the maps are big or how long the fractals are. Nowhere do they say how long each story chapter will be. The Strike mission will probably be reused story bosses, but I don't mind that.

You literally wrote this:

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Gyala Delve is the only content we have got since EoD released, so it's understandable that someone can imagine future content being in similar scope.

For all we know, the Open World maps may give us as little content as the Gyala Delve releases (which mostly just covers a map-wide meta) or less. For all we know, the story content may be as little as Gyala Delves (which wasn't much).

You know what maps gw2 is getting, including the gyala map (or EoD in general). Funnily enough you want to claim that comparing "what they told us" is somehow in line with  your "expansion can be what we got with gyala!" because... that's the latest release we got (even though it has nothing to do with the expansions we're getting and as far as I understand you confirmed you understand that?), but despite ALL the released maps in gw2 history, you now dismiss what we know about its releases and claim that maybe... all these maps combined will more or less equal the gyala one? 😄  Sure, totally plausible theory. At this point you understand what you said was in no way reasonable, glad you went back to re-read what we actually know though, so good job on that.

 

As for strike missions, I'd say that's expected and just like you, I don't see why it would be bad.

 

19 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Guys you know what is PR speech right?

Till we get more info its all theorycrafting.

"we will get x maps now and later" is truly such "pr speech", what are you even talking about in the context of the posts you're commenting on here? Which part was pr speech and allowed his random guess going against what we know to somehow be valid? "Theorycrafting" is one thing, "theorycrafting straight up going against what we know" is something else, you understand that, right?

Edited June 13, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Guys you know what is PR speech right?

Till we get more info its all theorycrafting.

And it's best to expect the low end of the what the PR speech could mean, rather than the high end.

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

And it's best to expect the low end of the what the PR speech could mean, rather than the high end.

Again, the issue here is that the expectation commented on here wasn't on any "end" of however you want to label that "speech", it was simply outside of it.

[Poormany.4507]

6 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Understand what's included in expansions, don't preorder, judge the worth of their contents in relation to the price and "worst case scenario" you're just... not paying for a game you don't think is worth it. What's the problem here?

They didn't announce the new release format until half a year after EoD was released, so anyone buying EoD at release would have reasonably expected the same LW format that has been in place for the past 8-10 years.

6 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What exactly are you basing this on? Because as far as I remember, the Gyala release is not somehow an equivalent of the new smaller expacs. They told us what it was and pretty sure it was not "one map with 1/5th(?) of it cut off to add it in later". And that's basically what Gyala was.

Based on the Studio Update:

"In the following quarterly updates, we’ll add another open-world map, additional story chapters, challenge modes for the Strike Missions, a new fractal dungeon and challenge mode, new rewards, and additions to the new systems introduced in that expansion."

That's pretty much what Gyala was, indicating that future quarterly updates will quite possibly give similar low levels of quality and quantity, especially since they will get much less effort/resources/staff because the whole team will be working on the next paid expac (same as how late IBS was sacrificed for EoD development and now the Gyala updates were sacrificed for Expac 4). So, I would not be surprised if the actual mini-expacs consist of two LW-level maps and story and one subpar Gyala-level map and story from the quarterly updates.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Poormany.4507 said:

They didn't announce the new release format until half a year after EoD was released, so anyone buying EoD at release would have reasonably expected the same LW format that has been in place for the past 8-10 years.

Cool. When I bought Hot, I was paying for HoT expansion, not for any subsequent content that might or might have not be released and included woth the expansion after the fact. Same with PoF and EoD. If you don't think expansion is worth the money, simply don't buy it. If you want to buy an expansion and then hope that something that might or might not come in a year or two will make it worth it then you're doing it wrong.

1 hour ago, Poormany.4507 said:

Based on the Studio Update:

"In the following quarterly updates, we’ll add another open-world map, additional story chapters, challenge modes for the Strike Missions, a new fractal dungeon and challenge mode, new rewards, and additions to the new systems introduced in that expansion."

That's pretty much what Gyala was, indicating that future quarterly updates will quite possibly give similar low levels of quality and quantity, especially since they will get much less effort/resources/staff because the whole team will be working on the next paid expac (same as how late IBS was sacrificed for EoD development and now the Gyala updates were sacrificed for Expac 4). So, I would not be surprised if the actual mini-expacs consist of two LW-level maps and story and one subpar Gyala-level map and story from the quarterly updates.

 What you've quoted here isn't the whole expansion, it's a smaller part of it. The planned expansion release doesn't fit gyala and you know it (hence the convenient trim). 🙄

Edited June 14, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[SidewayS.3789]

Quote

anet is on a good direction

Yes it is indeed, but the direction it's called Game Over for Gw2. If we judge ONLY on the last two so call "updates" and this is what we will get with the so call "mini expansions" this game will die sooner than you all may think. It's already an old MMO, who tried to re-invent the wheel over and over and over till we get here. EoD was the weakest expansion BY FAR (HoT remains for me the peak) and if they will continue down this road, the future of this game looks very grim. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by SidewayS.3789
quote

[Ashen.2907]

12 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

according to what we know, it pretty much can't be

This is incorrect.

What we "know" is that Anet said something. That does not mean that what they produce will match what they initially said was their intention. So, yes, despite the claim that it "can't be" as others consider possible, it can be.

[Luthan.5236]

QoL stuff is good. A lot of nice stuff in the past updates. Especially with the lfg tool (showing when map is full + queue option). The skins ... matter of taste I guess. I don't like most of the gem store stuff and the new weeklies from SAB and Dragon Bash ... look not tooo interesting compared to the existing stuff where we just have too much better things already. If there is a ton of "great" stuff you don't need to add a lot more "good" stuff. The festivals are reaching their limit - regarding rewards. I hope we won't get yet another set of new weapons (just finish the warmors with the annuals) next year.

[Hashberry.4510]

Not really interested in new stuff from this team. Looking at all thats been squandered, maintenance mode would be a better choice.

[vares.8457]

2 minutes ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

maintenance mode would be a better choice.

No. 

[Vayne.8563]

15 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I never claimed that Gyala Delve is part of the new release model. Yet it's undeniable that the size of the two Gyala Delve releases created concern over the content sizes that Arenanet may think are fine to give to their players.

That's right, just like most "what if" situations are mostly baseless.

There is nothing to directly confirm the hypothesis, yet there also is nothing to deny its possibility.

After all, Arenanet didn't state anything about the intended sizes of their planned future releases (as far as I remember).

It's not undeniable. I deny it. There you go.

I'm not concerned. I wasn't concerned about EoD, even though people who played IBS and did DRMs were concerned. I understand this is the end of the cycle, and it's not part of anything new, therefore, I'm not going to equate.

Every time someone says this game is over or this game is dead, or there won't be mounts, or whatever, they're missing the one thing that's been going on since launch. The community judges too quickly, programming takes time, and we're always just guessing. You're trying to find a pattern with two releases, that aren't part of the new schedule.  I don't expect this to be anything like the release after it, because the next release is probably an expansion, if a smaller one than we're used to.

At the end of the day, instead of preempting and guessing, I'm always going to take a wait and see attitude, because these forums are wrong as often as they're right.

 

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

This is incorrect.

What we "know" is that Anet said something. That does not mean that what they produce will match what they initially said was their intention. So, yes, despite the claim that it "can't be" as others consider possible, it can be.

News flash: They want to sell expansions, if they provide less, let alone x maps which add up to gyala size, they won't sell expansions. So no, despite your claim that "it can be", it can't be. This really should be easy enough to understand?

[Zok.4956]

6 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

They want to sell expansions, if they provide less, let alone x maps which add up to gyala size, they won't sell expansions. So no, despite your claim that "it can be", it can't be.

Yes, they have to (not only want to) sell expansions. And if anyone at Anet feels they could sell (enough) expansion copies with less effort (less cost), they might try that route. For this to work (financial success) or not to work it is irrelevant if you think they won't sell expansions if they go that way.

[Sobx.1758]

17 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

Yes, they have to (not only want to) sell expansions. And if anyone at Anet feels they could sell (enough) expansion copies with less effort (less cost), they might try that route. For this to work (financial success) or not to work it is irrelevant if you think they won't sell expansions if they go that way.

It is relevant what they told us and what they'll be held to now -releasing basically a map instead of 3 is not going to happen since it's not going to sell those expansions. Like... what's somehow still unclear here? If they wanted to try that minimalistic way, they'd announce that minimalistic way. The release those few people -and I guess now you too?- are suggesting here is not happening.