Boonball meta is bad

[Sansar.1302]

Pure heal and support builds dont fit Guild wars 2 at all and makes combat super boring in wvw or pve.

[Burnfall.9573]

2024 is right around the corner with upcoming Healthy Competitve MMO games. We will look back at Guild Wars 2 as a Toxic Gaming Experience memoir and feel good about the right decision we made of letting go of this Toxic Relationship with the game. 

It sure was a 10 years, years run to nowhere.  

Telling ourselves that, maybe, maybe if we beat the dead horse a litle harder, it may bring the horse back to life.

Well it didn't. 

We sure did try to get Anet attention to turn the game back to life again. 

Boonball, Power Creep, Toxic Bad Design, Exploit-Cheat-Hack Stealth Mechanic+Teleport. Control Area Effect-Pull, Immobolize, Blind, Aoe, Knockback, Daze, One Shot, Endless Toxic Design etc....

We can all leave it behind us joyfuly, knowing that we served our time and did our best.

So yeah! Just enjoy the few short time we have and post our remaining concerns before we head out to new ventures, that will do their best to give us the true meaning of The Players Experience.

-that is all-

I almost forgot, hackers, botters may end up quiting the game since there is no one around to play with

Edited November 17, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Dawdler.8521]

6 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

2024 is right around the corner with upcoming Healthy Competitve MMO games.

And probably 95% of which will fail horribly within 4 months because they either of Asian game mechanic design, pay2win, fundamentally flawed or so underbaked they need 2 more years of development to become decent.

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

2024 is right around the corner with upcoming Healthy Competitve MMO games. We will look back at Guild Wars 2 as a Toxic Gaming Experience memoir and feel good about the right decision we made of letting go of this Toxic Relationship with the game. 

We can agree to disagree. Can ANet do more for WvW, yes. Is the game toxic, no. As for a competitive game, 34 years into gaming, not sure I have ever seen one of these.

Does WvW need love, yes. Is there something out there that will fill it's role currently no. Does that mean they can be lack? No. Does it mean they can assume someone else is working towards another WvW model, no.

What keeps players around? Friends, fun, the pub effect/familiar faces. 

So instead of focusing on the outrage, I prefer to ask what can draw more in. Be that from ANet changes, to players, to environment changes, skills, exploits removals, hack removal, new gaming options and such. I admit I set the bar low and aim to be pleasantly surprised myself. Sometimes all you get is a basket of lemons.

2 cents from me my friend.

[TheGrimm.5624]

19 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

And probably 95% of which will fail horribly within 4 months because they either of Asian game mechanic design, pay2win, fundamentally flawed or so underbaked they need 2 more years of development to become decent.

Wait isn't this the definition of all games after 2019 and covid? 

[ArchonWing.9480]

Lol, I would love it if there were a Gw2 killer but besides the other big MMOs, they just haven't come to anything but hype.

At least it'd allow some people to finally quit if they really don't enjoy this game; at this point hanging around a game you can't play is pretty much just addiction.

Edited November 17, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Luranni.9470]

2 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Wait isn't this the definition of all games after 2019 and covid? 

I'd say it's since EA bought up an entire generation of MMO studios and flushed them down the toilet.  EA broke a decade of western MMO development - that's why I'm stuck in gw2 even though I always thought it was casual spammy fluff.  That's why Anet can be slack af.  We're still waiting for "good gaem". *skeleton in armchair*

[Mabi black.1824]

On 10/31/2023 at 2:59 AM, CrimsonOneThree.5682 said:

HoT pirate ship meta, with the change (indirect nerf) to stability was worse I think, but probably made worse by the fact the desert bl replaced the alpine bl, so decent open field fights, were quite hard to find, during that meta.

Organized teams playing in ''boonball'' formation are not the problem. You just need a little time to wear down their tail and at the right time you'll delete them in a matter of seconds, they all go down together in a moment usually. when they're good. When they're not very good, you won't need much time either. You force them to move and if they make the mistake of opening up, well it will be over before it even begins.

Yesterday I've been watching  your twich video, and the real problem I saw is that you guys have 4 maps in the queue. you pressed B more than once during your long video and I always saw 4 maps in the queue. while my current pairing has only 1 ( if we have a single tag because if we have 2 tags we won't even have 1 map in the queue , first or second night you want )

So the problem is not to put a 40-man boonball with 40-man . The problem is if you have to deal with it with only 20 men. Now put in as many updates as you want, but this will always remain the same problem. Because when you apply an update, it still affects everyone. Boonball or no boonball. ✌️

Edited November 17, 2023 by Mabi black.1824

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

You just need a little time to wear down their tail

The very definition of a true boonball is that there is no tail. That’s kind of the point. You cannot wear it down. Any way you approach it is just a solid wall of bubbles, boons and heals. You can only kill it with overwhelming force or another true boonball.

It’s even in the name you know. Balls don’t have tails.

[geist.4126]

15 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

2024 is right around the corner with upcoming Healthy Competitve MMO games. We will look back at Guild Wars 2 as a Toxic Gaming Experience memoir and feel good about the right decision we made of letting go of this Toxic Relationship with the game. 

It sure was a 10 years, years run to nowhere.  

Telling ourselves that, maybe, maybe if we beat the dead horse a litle harder, it may bring the horse back to life.

Well it didn't. 

We sure did try to get Anet attention to turn the game back to life again. 

Boonball, Power Creep, Toxic Bad Design, Exploit-Cheat-Hack Stealth Mechanic+Teleport. Control Area Effect-Pull, Immobolize, Blind, Aoe, Knockback, Daze, One Shot, Endless Toxic Design etc....

We can all leave it behind us joyfuly, knowing that we served our time and did our best.

So yeah! Just enjoy the few short time we have and post our remaining concerns before we head out to new ventures, that will do their best to give us the true meaning of The Players Experience.

-that is all-

I almost forgot, hackers, botters may end up quiting the game since there is no one around to play with

Is that copium or something stronger. I don't see any mmorpg in the market that will meet your expectations.

[Quirin.1076]

When a Boonball can stand, stand in the Oil Field at gate, Build Rams, Walk into a keep, Build Rams on inner gate and walk to the lord.  Meanwhile being surrounded by other players, attacked with Oil, Cannons, Arrow carts, boon strips, pulls attempts on kills only for them to be res soon after.  Stand on the lord and flip the keep. 

Solid game play,  It is cool that WvW is like the old school way of running dungeons. 

[XenesisII.1540]

Inquiring mind would like to know what healthy competitive mmo's are coming in 2024?

And don't say throne and liberty.....

 

7 hours ago, Luranni.9470 said:

I'd say it's since EA bought up an entire generation of MMO studios and flushed them down the toilet.  EA broke a decade of western MMO development - that's why I'm stuck in gw2 even though I always thought it was casual spammy fluff.  That's why Anet can be slack af.  We're still waiting for "good gaem". *skeleton in armchair*

Ultima online (inherited)

Earth and beyond (one of my early favorites!)

Motor city online (my friend will never forgive EA for destroying this)

Dark age of camelot (played a month then went back to EQ with friends)

Warhammer online (Waaaagh! played two months retail, then private server another couple months, one of my favs)

Star wars the old republic (played a few months ftp not a bad game tbh ton of content)

The secret world (played a month, way too much crashing)

Harry Potter (heard they cancelled this and missed out on cashing in when the franchise got big)

But yeah EA obviously hates mmo's, no idea why they bothered.

I wish wvw had competition, but sadly I don't think that would affect anet to do much for wvw in return. ESO seems to worse in the lag and balance department. Sometimes I feel like anet is trying to copy ESO balance with their spam game play immortal tank builds. 🤒

You're welcome confused -->

Edited November 17, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[Mabi black.1824]

16 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The very definition of a true boonball is that there is no tail. That’s kind of the point. You cannot wear it down.

Yes, by definition. But in reality that's not the case, the tail is always there. even when it feels like it's not there. For sure you have to have a similar strength and a lot of players who know what they have to do and when they have to do it.

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Yes, by definition. But in reality that's not the case, the tail is always there. even when it feels like it's not there.

Then it's not a true boonball. 

There is a MASSIVE difference in strength between a true boonball and one that just brings the meta builds so it can pretend to be.

[Chaba.5410]

6 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Then it's not a true boonball. 

There is a MASSIVE difference in strength between a true boonball and one that just brings the meta builds so it can pretend to be.

Are you suggesting that the boonball phenomenon is not as widespread as believed, or at least how this thread frames it? It's supposed to be meta, no? A group running meta IS a boonball, not just how well they can pull it off, because the OP boonball meta is supposed to be easy and needs nerfing.....

Edited November 18, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[ArchonWing.9480]

The thing about picking on tail vs competent groups is that you are often picking off the non-comped pugs/rallybots/bots that don't really contribute much. It looks like you are doing something but the main core of the squad is largely unaffected.  These aren't part of the boonball really since they can actually be detrimental.

 

These are the people that I was bringing up earlier that probably do less than 5% of the damage and don't contribute boons and heals.

It is just the natural outcome of trying to pick at a squad with 60-80% minstrel builds vs the randoms that don't run it without 3-4 healers following constantly. 

Of course, anything is possible if your opponent is extremely bad but once the boonball folks put a little more effort than as Dawdler said "spamming 1", they quickly ramp up in effectiveness.

The best tactics are generally some combination of siege like trebs, shield gens, and catapults. Shield gens can protect your own people from being killed, and siege weapons when chained together do a signifigant amount of unblockable damage. Arrow carts are useless and a waste of supply; stop using them!

Of course, siege warfare is also extremely unfun and doesn't exactly lead to great content either...

Earlier this week,  some guildies and I as a group of 5 defended a keep vs 20+ people, with most of the walls broken. Eventually the keep fell but they didn't even wipe us and just came back with enough respawns. Yes, the enemy couldn't stay together and were bad and there was some lord helping but most of the fights were at the walls.  What did Arcdps say was the largest damage source against us? The Catapults. And the worst part is wasn't even pure sustain at all; 3 marauder (reaper,. holo., soulbeast) + 1 burn cele fb, which is still a lot of boons.

At first I lamented that I didn't record so I could have made a cringe video about it, but then I realized it doesn't really show any skill, rather it shows how poor the game balance  is designed. Oh I know. blame the keep buff! (though it didn't have those tacts)

Edited November 18, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[geist.4126]

On 11/17/2023 at 5:52 PM, Quirin.1076 said:

When a Boonball can stand, stand in the Oil Field at gate, Build Rams, Walk into a keep, Build Rams on inner gate and walk to the lord.  Meanwhile being surrounded by other players, attacked with Oil, Cannons, Arrow carts, boon strips, pulls attempts on kills only for them to be res soon after.  Stand on the lord and flip the keep. 

Solid game play,  It is cool that WvW is like the old school way of running dungeons. 

The huge problem with that meta is that it works similar to "interest on interest". The more (here: people) you stack, the more reward you gain. As someone mentioned before every new player in the blob brings a buff to 5 other players and can spread conditions or direct damage to 5 opposing players.
That's why smaller groups will always struggle vs. bigger groups no matter how skilled they are. The smaller group has bigger problems with pulls, conditions on their group and boon rotation when pressured.
That's a completely dumbed down meta with "just bring more players to win".

Edited November 19, 2023 by geist.4126

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

Amazing as it seems, ANET appears to have made it worse. The meta now is literally just a small ball of every kittening player on a map, which is utterly immune to everything other than another ball with a better set of classes or better players.

Utterly kittening pointless to even play at the moment. You either get your own boonball, or sit aside while they do whatever the kitten they like, or try and do something and die repeatedly while they farm you.

We either need something from ANET acknowledging that they've got it wrong and explaining how they plan to fix this, or people are just going to give up completely. Because this is pathetic.

[Tythan.2936]

On 11/14/2023 at 4:51 PM, Auragen.4162 said:

This is such cope lmao. Tell me, how hard is it to play support/comp builds again? You just press button and 5 people get heals and boons, all while you are on max HP/toughness to rez downs faster (i.e. braindead tactics). If you're DPS, you just sit in the blob and pull/bomb whoever gets too close while you're being babysitted by healers and rezzers.

You can go off and pretend you're using extreme precision and cunning when you press your buttons to do what the commander says, but it's delusional 🤪

No, I don't think "20 people playing together" in this romanticized way you've described deserve jack kitten. Cheesing with comp builds IS THE EASY THING TO DO LOL. There was a time when my roaming guild would drop the power builds and comp for serious fights, BECAUSE IT WAS REALLY THAT MUCH EASIER.

Braindead comp squadding vs roamer builds (these guys asked for it, transferred like 10-15 people from EU to come after us) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dTpTUixzss

 

A bit of a late reply but : 
Nice strawhat but I never said it was hard. Judging by that old video (I have no clue what you're tying to show off with it btw) you can do it without making a whining thread on forums, so keep going.

Imagine being rewarded for playing a multiplayer game with the other players right ? 🥸

[hunkamania.7561]

One of the biggest issue is they nerf anything that does DPS all the time.  It's gonna get to a point where you can't win outnumbered unless the enemy team is all skill clicking or a real bad comp..  It's already there i guess and it's been that way for awhile.  No AOE cap would be nice for DPS skills and would change the game for the better but they are too care bear to do that 

[XenesisII.1540]

Well if they're not going to increase damage caps, maybe they should go the other way and increase aoe field durations.

But again any talk of this goes right past the devs cause they're not actually interested in balance and counter balance, just their bias, and they don't want their boon balls scratched.

Imagine thinking boon balls are a reward instead of a huge advantage. 🤭

[Sansar.1302]

1 hour ago, hunkamania.7561 said:

One of the biggest issue is they nerf anything that does DPS all the time.  It's gonna get to a point where you can't win outnumbered unless the enemy team is all skill clicking or a real bad comp..  It's already there i guess and it's been that way for awhile.  No AOE cap would be nice for DPS skills and would change the game for the better but they are too care bear to do that 

Target cap where introdused in beta to  make servers not collapse, they technically can't remove them. 

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Target cap where introdused in beta to  make servers not collapse, they technically can't remove them. 

Hmmmm but then you look at all the spam they added in the past 10 years with aoes boons conditions, and the fact they had 10 target caps around still on some stuff and scorched earth still can hit 25, and ac's can hit 50, makes you wonder about that. 🤔🤷‍♂️

[Sansar.1302]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Hmmmm but then you look at all the spam they added in the past 10 years with aoes boons conditions, and the fact they had 10 target caps around still on some stuff and scorched earth still can hit 25, and ac's can hit 50, makes you wonder about that. 🤔🤷‍♂️

And it introduce skill lagg in large fights, they walk a fine line.

[XenesisII.1540]

22 minutes ago, Sansar.1302 said:

And it introduce skill lagg in large fights, they walk a fine line.

By the looks of it from my pov it's most likely certain groups exploiting certain something to induce that skill lag, like the rise meta. The last two sat prime times were a tale of two cities for me in regards to lag.