Boonball meta is bad

[XenesisII.1540]

3 hours ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

Curious, should Boon removal only target Stability and Resistance then ? And make it a tool specifically for that, and ignore all other boons? Or alternatively only defensive boons?

You'd have everyone crying and screaming again about that. If anything it should target everything but stability, and leave stability rips to cc's. That might at least give some leeway to leave whatever boon rips left in the game without those organized groups worrying about pushing to melee, which apparently anet thinks doesn't happen fast enough and wants to accomplish. 🤷‍♂️

[joneirikb.7506]

Rough idea that's been thrown around the forum in the past:

Make Boons and Condi direct counters, instead of indirect counters? Instead of condi-cleanse and boon-strip/corrupt, apply vulnerability to remove a stack of might, and opposite? Actually making condi useful in zergs, for removing boons.

[XenesisII.1540]

25 minutes ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

Rough idea that's been thrown around the forum in the past:

Make Boons and Condi direct counters, instead of indirect counters? Instead of condi-cleanse and boon-strip/corrupt, apply vulnerability to remove a stack of might, and opposite? Actually making condi useful in zergs, for removing boons.

You spitballed it in this thread. Can't believe it's been two years already since made that post. 🤭🍦

Edited July 6, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[Mell.4873]

They have taken quite a few steps to straight up remove the boon gameplay from WvW, some PvE skill don't even apply Quickness or Alacrity anymore. 

Its really just the more legacy Elites that still do but I bet they will be reworked. I mean Mesmer losts it Wells recently so it not to far fetched to expect Firebrand to lose some precasting ability. 

[Dawdler.8521]

19 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

They have taken quite a few steps to straight up remove the boon gameplay from WvW, some PvE skill don't even apply Quickness or Alacrity anymore. 

Its really just the more legacy Elites that still do but I bet they will be reworked. I mean Mesmer losts it Wells recently so it not to far fetched to expect Firebrand to lose some precasting ability. 

There is more boons than ever and elites are more oppressive than ever.

[God.2708]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

There is more boons than ever and elites are more oppressive than ever.

If you think there are more boons than PoF opening you'd be straight up wrong. Glory days of SoI with people so drowned in boons they'd just share them without even reapplying them because everything was laid on so thick.

 

They are tougher to take off what's on now, sure.

[Sophianne.9204]

yep

Edited October 30, 2023 by Sophianne.9204
because the post is really old and it's just the same old story over and over again

[RisingDawn.5796]

On 6/27/2023 at 8:15 PM, Ya Ya Yeah.7381 said:

Worst meta yet. Just did some wvw and yep. A little stronger than before, forget about killing the boonball, just run put some damage and escape, nobody dies. I hope someone makes a video of them literally rolling their face on the keyboard while booned up and not dying while doing it, so that Anet gets the picture correctly. 

And now they want 25 dollars to add new weapons to core. Such an insult to the wvw player base.

HoT pirate ship meta, with the change (indirect nerf) to stability was worse I think, but probably made worse by the fact the desert bl replaced the alpine bl, so decent open field fights, were quite hard to find, during that meta.

Edited October 31, 2023 by CrimsonOneThree.5682

[XenesisII.1540]

2 hours ago, CrimsonOneThree.5682 said:

HoT pirate ship meta, with the change (indirect nerf) to stability was worse I think, but probably made worse by the fact the desert bl replaced the alpine bl, so decent open field fights, were quite hard to find, during that meta.

The only thing that was bad about that meta was for the organized groups that don't know how to move and love to stand still in red rings all day, or how to properly bait bombs. At least the pirate meta taught them something, move or die.

Now it's completely the opposite, it's pretty hard to stop groups from just pressing w, the ones that die are still the ones that again don't know how to position and love to stand in red rings all day cause they want boons and heals to do all the work. The only thing that teaches is to carry more support players.

Not having diminishing returns on cc's was a terribad idea.

Having one boon be the catch all for cc's, thus requiring it to be spammed, and then having one class be the main group distributor of it, was also a terribad idea.

Boon spam is bad.

[geist.4126]

This game seriously needs better pin sniping. Would desolve the w-meta in a week.

[Sandzibar.5134]

2 hours ago, geist.4126 said:

This game seriously needs better pin sniping. Would desolve the w-meta in a week.

Well thats what drove Anet to remove unblockable from a number of  traits and skills in the July 16 2019 patch. They dont want you to be able to do that.

 

 

[Aeolus.3615]

39 minutes ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

Well thats what drove Anet to remove unblockable from a number of  traits and skills in the July 16 2019 patch. They dont want you to be able to do that.

 

 

For those who got confuse with this comment this was actually true, Anet was not OK with pin snipin, how dare a few touch the zerg...

Edited October 31, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[Jski.6180]

I think the new poison relic that coming in the new set will be an hard counter to boonball meta if used right. Poison was kind of an counter to healing out put but if the new relic is a big hit to healing effects as well as applying a longish poison i can see it being THE build and set up for countering boonballs.

[MarzAttakz.9608]

34 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

I think the new poison relic that coming in the new set will be an hard counter to boonball meta if used right. Poison was kind of an counter to healing out put but if the new relic is a big hit to healing effects as well as applying a longish poison i can see it being THE build and set up for countering boonballs.

Is it uncleansable? Is it unconvertable? Will it hit through aegis, invuln or the latest scourge barrier?

Raw healing isn't the issue, it's all the other kitten on top of it.

[Jski.6180]

6 minutes ago, MarzAttakz.9608 said:

Is it uncleansable? Is it unconvertable? Will it hit through aegis, invuln or the latest scourge barrier?

Raw healing isn't the issue, it's all the other kitten on top of it.

I think cleaning poison will be very important but its one more thing that you will need to deal with as an boon ball and its very hard to clear (if not impossible to clear an down state player) a major problem and effect with the "boon ball" being able to rez with skills.

[Lipton Ice Tea.3580]

17 hours ago, geist.4126 said:

This game seriously needs better pin sniping. Would desolve the w-meta in a week.

So true. My guild was created for this, to stop all pugs from getting run over and farmed by organized boonball blobs. We are still largely successful, but its not always easy when a blobs stab uptime reaches >99% and usually requires the help of a little...gravity 😆 if you know what I mean

#pugLivesMatter

VIVE AMX JTM TOTALE

[geist.4126]

6 hours ago, Lipton Ice Tea.3580 said:

So true. My guild was created for this, to stop all pugs from getting run over and farmed by organized boonball blobs. We are still largely successful, but its not always easy when a blobs stab uptime reaches >99% and usually requires the help of a little...gravity 😆 if you know what I mean

#pugLivesMatter

VIVE AMX JTM TOTALE

Last time I saw you it was on WSR. So you did quite the opposite.

[geist.4126]

21 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

I think the new poison relic that coming in the new set will be an hard counter to boonball meta if used right. Poison was kind of an counter to healing out put but if the new relic is a big hit to healing effects as well as applying a longish poison i can see it being THE build and set up for countering boonballs.

This won't do anything with all the cleanses in the game. 

[subversiontwo.7501]

On 7/6/2023 at 2:40 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:

Edit: I'm amazed to see that some peoples manage to be confused by some plain facts

It feels like you've been gone for a bit, it has been like that for a while now. While somewhat crude, the forums can easily be categorised these days.

You have your relative beginners - and they do what relative beginners have always done: play longbow and rifle builds while complaining about everything they don't understand from boons, to reflects to not getting to freecast from walls or the power of their 1-2 button burst. They make threads about hacks, sometimes they may be right. They also tend to parrot what others say, even if that is the names of comps from 2015.

Then you have your entrenched mains and roamers - you'll see them attempting to gatekeep balance discussions about other classes than the traditional 3-4 ones. It's your typical Thief suggesting that Willbenders are faster or your typical Warrior complaining about how bad their class always is, even in a 2-berserker per party group meta or while the class has never really ceased to be relevant in 11 years. Skilled people just happened to pick their main classes, the classes have always been rather weak. Most of these people seem to not like cele for some reason 😏.

Then there are the typical solo / cloud / PPT crowd - they tend to complain about organised things. It may also be things involving either PPK/PPT issues or playing to purpose/behaviour of others and the ease of taking defended objectives (though they tend to be rather pecularily quiet about the ease of taking undefended objectives). I dare not say more else we might resummon Lipton to the thread, meming more about pulling for the weak .

Finally, you have some overwintered boomers who mostly just come to the forums because they've always come to forums (or because they live under some illusion that official channels matter or that it's bad to have cries/fallacies plastered all over them). You're more likely to see them in threads about Alliances/WR or complaining about the developer.

Few of these frequent users tend to be very positive about, well, anything 😜. Though I guess that can be backdropped by what they have to be positive about.

Edited November 1, 2023 by subversiontwo.7501

[jemdarr.2158]

On 7/6/2023 at 6:11 PM, joneirikb.7506 said:

Rough idea that's been thrown around the forum in the past:

Make Boons and Condi direct counters, instead of indirect counters? Instead of condi-cleanse and boon-strip/corrupt, apply vulnerability to remove a stack of might, and opposite? Actually making condi useful in zergs, for removing boons.

That would kill condi specs. You won't be able to do any kind of damage when your conditions only counter boons and vice versa. This will just be a neverending loop of application and re-application.

[Jski.6180]

2 hours ago, geist.4126 said:

This won't do anything with all the cleanses in the game. 

It is one relic on it own it should not be able to deal with comply builds that are condi clear aimed. But it will add to the over all condi out put and make poison much stronger vs an boon ball set up.

[urd.8306]

I don't see how this is good, because it will make to classes stronger in roaming too: Thief and Necro.

[Dagger.2035]

@subversiontwo.7501, you missed a few player archetypes:

You have your entrenched support players - you'll see them attempting to gatekeep balance discussions about large scale fights since they believe all professions should stay in their lanes.  They tend to believe roaming professions should scout and create pick groups instead of participating in large scale fights.  They also don't realize that support only exists as a means to allow damage to be applied effectively.  They have a one-track mind and always want to stack and push.  Are you getting w-keyed due to a lack of damage?  We need more support players!  Are you in an outnumbered fight where you should spread out and DPS?  Just get on tag, push, die, and repeat.

Then the typical group / blob / GVG crowd - they tend to complain about the effectiveness of unorganized things.  It may be things on how an unorganized cloud's damage, CC, and strips are too effective.  My organized group wiped to a pug cloud and that should never happen since organization equals skill.  They tend to want to cap the ceiling on all types of builds to make sure the game matches their point of view.

[Chaba.5410]

If anyone thinks a cloud can't be organized, they are vastly misreading the situation.

[Dagger.2035]

11 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

If anyone thinks a cloud can't be organized, they are vastly misreading the situation.

The same thing could be said about sarcasm. 😉

I was trying to make a point with my last post.  The truth is we are all biased and there are so many different points of view, that discussions on WvW tend to go nowhere.