Weaponmaster Training Beta Feedback: Warrior

[Shinichi Megure.8061]

Yes nice.. but i don't see any new fun builds with weaponmaster for warrior. I will rather check out vindi with shortbow herald with gs or willi with longbow.

Warrior has too many boring weapon sets so i would suggest delete some but give the rest an update for better design.

PS: Still sad that triple spin arc divider is gone:(

Edited June 30, 2023 by Shinichi Megure.8061

[Lonecap.4105]

10 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

it's trash, off hand sword skills are so much easier to hit. and pulsing condition is literally stronger and adding 2 extra condition type is crucial for condition build, while even if by some miracle you landed a big burning with off-hand torch, it will get cleansed instantly. not to mention having a full block at range.

It felt better to me. Sword 4 is two things: crucial to land if you want to kill something as condi spb. But it’s also a projectile, and there is a lot of projectile hate - you already got one weapon set exclusively projectiles. Just saying with blaze breaker you don’t get totally shut down. It’s hard to land torch 5 in any meaningful capacity, but it is now more achievable thanks to unrooted flurry.

But if I’m taking myself off my cope meds, then let’s be honest. All of these weapon combinations are whack. This was just my tiny salvage from our weapon master dumpster fire.

[DemonCrypto.6792]

My feedback on the Weaponmaster training for war:

Dagger MH: It's okay. Primal Burst is lackluster at the moment, but it's a good option if you want something other than an axe for power.

Dagger OH: It's still mediocre and can't compete with the multidirectional hits/spin-to-win mechanics of the axe OH in terms of damage. However, the barrier could open up a niche for it.

Now, onto the problems:

Torch and Pistol OH: These weapons are too closely tied to their respective elite specializations to be truly effective or offer new build options.

For example, the torch is only useful for some  specific build, and other elite specializations lack a good condition damage alternative to condi berserker.

The pistol is attempting to compete with both axe and dagger OH, which is redundant, and the ammunition mechanic only matters for Bladesworn.

This means that for now, these two weapons are missing the mark for the Weaponmaster training, and the OH dagger is only slightly better than them.

TL;DR: Opening up weapons to every war specialization doesn't work because some are too dependent on their respective elite specialization skills and traits.

 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

My biggest takeaway from the beta is a depressing reminder of just how bad warrior weapons are.

There are probably a couple power builds that might get a boost from OH pistol, but that's about it.

[Zekent.3652]

This change sucks for warrior, staff better be good.

[Yerlock.4678]

Spear and mainhand shield would be cool. Also Elite shout, Elite stance, reworking banners, update some skills so they're not terrible, add more skills that are gap closers, as not using Bull's Charge feels like having missing limb syndrome. I suggest a Scorpion Wire type skill. Maybe add new traits and skills next time around, with new weapons. Also make core Warrior have an f2 to make it more viable compared to other warrior specs.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Rifle and longbow still suck and are far overshadowed by their counterparts on Deadeye and ranger. 

It's really frustrating that, despite so many buffs and changes, warriors' ranged weapons (and weapons in general) just lag so far behind those of other professions.

[GoldSilva.8950]

Regarding Warrior I have many concerns most are lore/gameplay-related, altho I feel that many are founded:

1) As many have mentioned "The Weaponmaster" class will no longer be such as many others, notably ranger and Revnant (both basically just better magical warrior's* at this point) have more unique weapon combinations now.

2) I take issue with the fact that the Spellbreaker burst skill removes 2 boons while core / berserkers can remove up to 4 with it. So Core Warriors are just better at breaking spells now?' I'm happy for the boon removal somewhere, but that makes no sense.

3) Dagger Primal Burst: No real complaints other than it sucks. It should throw small AOE projectiles and be about 6 whirl finishers and have an evade at least.

4) I find it difficult to believe that somehow some Variant of "The Weapon's master class" figured out how to wield a pistol in their off-hand and devote enough time to developing a Gun-Sword fighting style. (One that takes so much devotion & training that they essentially forget how to equip an entire other weapon set.) But they can't figure out how to wield pistols in their main hand. I get that Warrior desperately needs a support weapon. But there's gotta be a better compromise here... Which brings me to:

5) I think people find it incredibly insulting that you keep adding artificial weapons to Warrior (i.e. Staff, Gunsaber, off-Pistol, etc.) to fill holes in their kit without updating or using the existing tools that they have to do so. It's not like there isn't space to do this. Warrior has 20+ Literally unusable traits because they haven't been updated since they were put in the game. Not to mention nearly all of the Weapon skills. And no, adding ammo to Longbow skills doesn't count. A skill that's bad is still bad no matter how many times you can cast it. Adding 3 off-hand weapons that are barely used or do anything unique on their Specializaions' does nothing to help.

So, All this leaves Warrior feeling pretty anemic. Update the existing Weapon Skills, give them a Pistol or Gunsabers on Core, or somehow let us feel like masters of combat again instead of 1-trick ponies.

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

My feedback from playing OH pistol, dagger, and torch in a core build

Build/Testing Grounds: I started w/ a similar build to the core build I run around in: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKiAwylZwoYeMFGJOSL/JfA-zxIU1o5vEAkBA-e . As I play it outside the beta, it's a hybrid sw/sw might-heal build.  For the test and this feedback, I just swapped out the offhand sword for pistol, dagger, and torch.  Runes and sigils were not ideal, but also not essential to the build. My favorite place to test builds is Southsun Cove, testing on the large veteran karkas.  I definitely could have tweaked the traits a bit, but I don't get paid to do Anet's work, and I doubt it would have made any difference in my opinions.

Dagger: fighting with this OH had good game feel, mostly because of the Dual Wielding trait in effect.  If I weren't doing hybrid and focusing on gear like marauders (power/crit build), this would be a fine choice (except, see last sentence).  D4 is similar to sw3 in animation, but d4 has less total damage due to sw3 bleed, and a slightly higher CD... making it meh in comparison. The multi-attack of d5 is nice (but the CD is annoying), and also feels a lot like flurry in use... with the same benefit of possibly procing more might for more healing.   Thing is, in a power/crit build, I'd still take OH axe over OH dagger almost every time for the same reasons: better damage, and faster CD of the 5 skill.

Pistol: I enjoyed using the pistol, however the sword suffered for the lack of dual wielding benefit.  Fights were more work due to the slower attack speed, though being able to range with the pistol was more useful than I first thought.  P5, and through it the use of p4, was good for procing might, and the low CD made it always useful, and fights with pistol were the most engaging out of the these 3 weapons.  Pushing myself out of melee range was only a minor annoyance.  For power/crit, I think I'd still land on the side of OH-axe just because of its dual wielding benefit.

Torch: well, my build is hybrid, so this could be good.... but, I was disappointed. This had drawbacks from both dagger and pistol... first, sluggish game feel with no Berserker speed or dual wielding (sorry for beating this drum, but imo it makes all the difference in two-weapon fighting).  I don't feel the fire damage made up for the lost damage from slower speed even with Furious traited, but maybe raw numbers tell a different story.  That was the first thing... the second was the CDs on torch were lackluster and mostly both skills existed for spamming when off CD.  If I were fighting hordes of easy foes like exploring OW I could see preferring torch and its aoe burn damage... but in tougher fights I'd rather have the situational block-bleed of s5, and the choice between torment and might-heal of sw4.

Anet, not sure if that's the kind of information you're looking for, but I hope that helps and I hope it all made sense.

I gotta agree with what others have said before me... Warriors kinda got the shaft w/ 3 elite specs giving us 3 OH weapons and 1 MH weapon... and Weaponmaster just doesn't feel as special as it should because of it.  Once I have Weaponmaster, I might switch in some of those OH weapons situationally... if I remember to do it.

~EpWa

Edited July 2, 2023 by EphemeralWallaby.7643

[someguy.4107]

   One common observation on this thread is the offhand expac weapons are quite lackluster for warrior. One common observation on core warrior is that a lot of the weapons feel outdated or underwhelming. What if this Weaponmaster release added offhand burst skills? Offhand pistol could fire a Scorpio wire that, if it lands, pulls both the warrior and enemy together and reloads x rounds of dragons roar based on how much adrenaline was spent (maybe overload the pistol). Offhand torch could "Sundering Leap" animation the torch into the ground to create flame geysers on enemies in range. Offhand dagger could not be another thief skill reskinned for warrior :j. (jk) 

   I know it would take lot of time, effort and resources for all warrior weapons. Maybe just the expac weapons for the SotO expac release, and the others could come later?

[Lighter.5631]

the entire warrior class removed from the game after weapon master training, just watch lol.

there's literally no point for warrior to buy expa at all, because there's no point in using any weapon else other than the elite specs are already using currently.

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

1 hour ago, Lighter.5631 said:

the entire warrior class removed from the game after weapon master training, just watch lol.

there's literally no point for warrior to buy expa at all, because there's no point in using any weapon else other than the elite specs are already using currently.

You will be able to access the weaponmaster training without the xpac, so yeah.

Warrior needs a massive weapon pass. Swords and Maces specifically, but all of the weapons could use some looking through.

[Lighter.5631]

36 minutes ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

You will be able to access the weaponmaster training without the xpac, so yeah.

Warrior needs a massive weapon pass. Swords and Maces specifically, but all of the weapons could use some looking through.

just look at dagger on bladesworn.

there's like minimum difference compared to mace on bladesworn...😭

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

8 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

just look at dagger on bladesworn.

there's like minimum difference compared to mace on bladesworn...😭

I have difficulty looking at anything bladesworn because i rather assume a deep horse stance on top of a meat grinder than ever touching whatever the hell that garbage elite-spec is.

[DKRathalos.9625]

@Rubi Bayer.8493 so far as I know @DemonCrypto.6792 describe the problem very well.

This weapon master training doesn't really benefit warrior that much, can we get some updated weapon skill instead to our old weapon set? Warrior got a lot weapon but a lot of them still not see a play often.

Even better if you guys can fix some Core Spec like Arms. Honestly we warrior community have been getting the short end of the stick everytime balance patch coming, can we at least get a big Win for the next few patches?

[Smoosh.2718]

Just make Pistol main hand, give it range and warrior will actually come out ok with 'weapon master'.
 

I loved warrior back in the core days, i liked it during HoT and Pof but then started to dislike it in EoD when it became clear that the weapons being provided to warrior were thoughtlessly done, not filling the classes gaps in what it can do (Like every single other classes elite specs...)

Warrior NEEDS still to this day a 1 handed ranged weapon just like EVERY single other core class has access to... but warrior, left in the dark, pushed to the side and have the class fall short with its dated bland skills and utilities that all do the same thing with a different colour.

 

This weapon master beta really shows warrior what it has become over the years, a stale, bland, forgotten class thats expected to have 'simple skills' because its meant to be a 'simple class'.
Warriors kit of offhand weapons; Mace, Sword, Torch, Pistol all need looking into to keep up with the changing game which has left them void of use, forgotten and broken. 

In regards to pistol, stop passing the buck and have this fantasy of melee pistol, I knew it wasnt going to fill the gap warrior needed filling, I stated as well that warrior was even the class with the title 'WEAPON MASTER', which in translation meant... all weapons which can be used in the mainhand can be used offhand as well, pistol is a mainhand weapon. I called it a long time ago yet it was placed into the game and really crushes my want and drive to play the game after i spent hours making weapons like HOPE to use on warrior, to only find out that you cant even see HOPE in action when you fire the weapon, no lasers just explosions that just flop out of the barrel for a very dry style of gameplay.

 

Spice up the warriors kit, make it engaging and please give the class some complexity so players dont feel like they ended up playing Sastasha normal on a maxed out character 70 times in a row. (if you've played FFXIV you'll know this is the dungeon you'll end up doing in roulette roullete and honestly feel like going to sleep after it).

 

I know this is meant to be feedback which has almost come across as a rant, but this is how it feels to play warrior now for me. So please, make a change that warrior actually needs, dont let it become this relic class in the game forgotten about due to other classes being far far far more engaging and fun to play.

[philvaneyck.1932]

warrior ist just underwhelming and weak... slow attacks, low damage compared to other classes.

Edited July 3, 2023 by philvaneyck.1932

[prototypedragon.1406]

To give warrior a more defined personality they could perhaps restore the damage of all of its cc skills to what they once were a long long time ago or even a flat 1000 max hit upon using a cc. Granted we probably will just be overlooked as a class in terms of things. I am greatful they went with making it so flurry no longer self roots but that is just the very top of the surface of what warrior needs to have improved and revisited. Whether it be weapons just left in the dust or nerfed to the point there is only one best in slot weapon instead of designing the said weapons to be interchangeable across multiple builds to provide more build customization in terms of say a weapon like mace where by itself is a power based weapon but when most of its skills are just cc based no warrior in its right mind would use it for damage on a core warrior, even with berzerker condi warrior with its mace is like a fish left out to dry. Since the only condition damage you get from it is it's burst. Not excluding the offhand mace which we all know how that one works.

[Taionz.1236]

Attackers Insight on Spellbreaker could give some condition damage and expertise. Torch is mostly condition damage so using it on Spellbreaker doesn't make a whole lot of sense compared to other weapons. Bladesworn could also use a similar change to it's minor grandmaster trait Guns and Glory. With these changes, I still don't think using torch on these eilte specs would be 100% practical but it would help it out.

[Dorsai.1458]

I didn't get a chance to mess with beta chars ....but from a pvp perspective, did anyone try spb with dagger/pistol?  I'm thinking the goodness of pistol 4 with the reflect trait in def plus decent burst on pistol 5 make it better than dagger/shield.  Since pistol 4 is ammo, you pretty much always have it up on weap swap (as long as you don't spam both charges) and it feeds ammo into pistol 5. Shield 4 seems so bad nowadays cause slow, low range and stab being everywhere

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

17 hours ago, Dorsai.1458 said:

I didn't get a chance to mess with beta chars ....but from a pvp perspective, did anyone try spb with dagger/pistol?  I'm thinking the goodness of pistol 4 with the reflect trait in def plus decent burst on pistol 5 make it better than dagger/shield.  Since pistol 4 is ammo, you pretty much always have it up on weap swap (as long as you don't spam both charges) and it feeds ammo into pistol 5. Shield 4 seems so bad nowadays cause slow, low range and stab being everywhere

I used GS/axe+ pistol on spellbreaker and it was pretty good. I'm sure dagger+ pistol would be good too.  

OH pistol was really the only bright spot in the beta for warrior, Imo.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

56 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I used GS/axe+ pistol on spellbreaker and it was pretty good. I'm sure dagger+ pistol would be good too.  

OH pistol was really the only bright spot in the beta for warrior, Imo.

Probably just due to the Aegis and Shield Mastery interaction. When CMC nerfs that then the story may be different.

[someguy.4107]

18 hours ago, Dorsai.1458 said:

I didn't get a chance to mess with beta chars ....but from a pvp perspective, did anyone try spb with dagger/pistol?  I'm thinking the goodness of pistol 4 with the reflect trait in def plus decent burst on pistol 5 make it better than dagger/shield.  Since pistol 4 is ammo, you pretty much always have it up on weap swap (as long as you don't spam both charges) and it feeds ammo into pistol 5. Shield 4 seems so bad nowadays cause slow, low range and stab being everywhere

   Pistol, looking only at skills QoL, is better on Spellbreaker than on Bladesworn due to "No Escape". Landing all, or most, of "Dragon's Roar" is pretty free with the readily available immobilize. Of the three weapons warriors will get with SOTO, Pistol is by far the best for all warrior specs. Warriors weakest match ups are against: aegis, blinds and stability (If your build is reliant on CC for combo setups). Pistol strips aegis and blind, and has no increased damage modifier for attacking CC'd, or non attacking, foes on top of hitting 5 targets. Even on core warrior pistol is better than torch & OH dagger. Having access to two movement/spacing tools in one weapon gives more value than the other expac weapons. In the mesmer match up where they can self-shatter to daze you, you can "Dragon's Roar" just out of melee range to still land damage and push yourself out of retaliation range of shatters. You land a "Bullscharge" against any Guardian and "Dragon's Roar" to deal with the aegis & blinds from virtues/utilities.

   You'll have a blast with dagger/pistol :j was a good time for sure.

[GamerToad.9248]

this xpac is making me want to play less warrior cause it exposes wide open how shallow warrior gameplay is.

the new weapon combinations were minor difference where on example willbender with longbow changes it dramatically.

Warrior needs all of its weapon updated since warrior identity lies within its weapon and burst skills.

[felix.2386]

On 7/5/2023 at 8:23 AM, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I used GS/axe+ pistol on spellbreaker and it was pretty good. I'm sure dagger+ pistol would be good too.  

OH pistol was really the only bright spot in the beta for warrior, Imo.

MH dagger on spellbreaker in pvp, will be forever better than MH axe, given how close the damage is, but also having 2 leaps, boon rip, unblockable and no escape synergy to set up arc slice.

on the other hand, pistol is super meh, not sure if you tried off hand sword, that's better already than pistol on spellbreaker, without tactical reload and sustain from bladesworn, it is just another off hand axe.

but shield is still the best, you are a side noder after all, your prime role is to survive 2v1, then is winning 1v1.

Edited July 7, 2023 by felix.2386