Are daily login rewards going away?

[tylersockington.4728]

Title pretty much explains it all: are daily login rewards going away in Secret of the Obscure? I know some people think that they are, but I don't really see why they would. I've heard the argument that it's pay-to-win to have multiple accounts for the daily login, but we can literally buy gems that directly convert to gold. At this moment, assuming you were to purchase just the HoT and PoF bundle on sale, it takes about 10 months of logging in daily to get the same amount of gold as just buying the gems and converting them.

I don't know, seems pointless to remove them. If an ANet dev could confirm whether or not they are going away, that'd be appreciated and also open this for a more interesting discussion.

[Ashantara.8731]

2 minutes ago, tylersockington.4728 said:

are daily login rewards going away in Secret of the Obscure? I know some people think that they are, but I don't really see why they would.

Me, neither. I don't think they are going away, to be honest.

[soul.9651]

You dont need any of the expansions for multiboxing accounts to work..heroic editions are enough to get the access to log in rewards, and those are either given away for free or bought for Next to nothing when its on sale (30cents per account).. literally NOONE is buying any of the expansion bundless if we are talking about hundreds or thousands accounts farms.. 

Edited July 1, 2023 by soul.9651

[Panda.1967]

I don’t think they are going away… I am 100% certain that the claims that they are originated from people who just hate the current daily login system in the first place… they saw one tiny thing in the announcement that ever so slightly related to daily rewards and assumed it meant replacing daily logins.

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

52 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

heroic editions are enough to get the access to log in rewards, and those are either given away for free or bought for Next to nothing when its on sale (30cents per account)

Well, because ANet  screwed up the nVidia GeForce NOW promo last year, anyone who wanted hundreds of completely free heroic editions got them back then. If I remember correctly ANet didn't sell any heroic editions for other companies' promotions or gave them away themselves since then. That botched promo is also pretty much the reason why MCs and T3/T4 mats halved in value during the last 15 - 18 months.

However, using more than 30 accounts per day requires a bit of planning and organization (NVMe drive, nVidia GPU, VPN, etc.). Although a somewhat skilled login-farmer can easily log into 100 - 150 accounts per hour without any automation. The gold-per-hour rate is absolutely insane turning  any other method of farming into a joke. If one uses scripts or bots, one can basically double that login-rate per PC, although it seems that ANet banned some of those login-botters lately.

Personally, as someone with a far above average amount of accounts, I'm all for cutting down the basic login rewards to stuff that can't be monetized. ANet should at least try to balance between heroic editions and accounts with multiple expansions, if they decide that they won't get rid of rewards that can be converted into gold easily.

Edited July 1, 2023 by TheWaternymphHC.1847
typos & clarification

[babana.7521]

Easy fix, give log in reward after you have done the daily.

 

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

4 minutes ago, babana.7521 said:

Easy fix, give log in reward after you have done the daily.

 

This would defeat the purpose of the login-rewards. They are designed to be an easy reward to keep the players happy in their Skinnerbox and encourage them to keep playing longer.

That said, there are enough possible rewards that can't easily be converted to gold like the random Black Lion items or boosters to help player with doing their daily chores.

[babana.7521]

9 minutes ago, TheWaternymphHC.1847 said:

This would defeat the purpose of the login-rewards. They are designed to be an easy reward to keep the players happy in their Skinnerbox and encourage them to keep playing longer.

That said, there are enough possible rewards that can't easily be converted to gold like the random Black Lion items or boosters to help player with doing their daily chores.

the purpose of the login reward is so that players  login and  play the game, not log in to exploit the login reward. Hence only giving them the reward after the purpose is fulfil is perfectly fine.

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

You are wrong, the login-reward is supposed to reward players for logging into the game, hence the name. It's a fairly simple psychological trick that almost every F2P, Fremium or mobile game uses to condition the player to come back to the game. They aren't supposed to be part of the daily grind as you suggested.

The problem with the current system is that there is a direct way to convert the login-rewards into gold. Once that is removed, GW2's economy would be less skewed and people would actually have to play the game to make gold (or buy gems instead).

I assume that the new Wizard's Vault is supposed to be an incentive for players to actually play the game instead of just gaming a flawed system. The question will just be whether it is put atop the current flawed system or if it replaces it.

[BlueJin.4127]

I’m pretty sure the daily log-in rewards allowing players to make extra gold is intentional to encourage players to buy multiple accounts so Anet can make more money. I can’t imagine Anet removing this completely since it would lead to lower sales for Anet.

In the grand scheme of things, players owning multiple accounts doesn't create any negative problems for the game. Unless it's a significant amount of gold, it really doesn't matter for the in-game economy whether the gold comes from logging on every day on multiple accounts, or by farming something repeatedly on a single account.

Edited July 2, 2023 by BlueJin.4127

[Ashen.2907]

Unless I am misremembering the wording used, it seems more as if ANet is changing the rewards system for login to be a more integral aspect of an overall reward revamp of sorts.

[AgentMoore.9453]

I went back to the SotO rewards article and pulled some relevant lines:

• The Wizard’s Vault is a new streamlined rewards system that combines the best elements of the daily login and daily achievement systems
• With the release of Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure, you’ll receive new objectives to complete daily, weekly, and with each quarterly release.
• As you complete objectives you’ll earn Astral Acclaim, a new account-wide currency, which can be exchanged for rewards of your choosing
• Our goal is for Wizard’s Vault rewards are (sic) meant to be attainable through regular, normal play; there are no paid upgrades or progression skips, and the legacy section exists to take the time pressure off and allow players to catch up if they take a break.
• Some Wizard’s Vault tasks and rewards are exclusive to Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure, but all accounts with a level 80 character will have access to the feature.

Judging solely by the wording they chose there, it seems they want to combine the login and daily systems and the upcoming vault feature will be available to everyone, even people who don't have SotO on their account. Those two things together seem to indicate dailies and login rewards will be removed and replaced by the Wizard Vault, with additional dailies and such being available to people who do buy SotO, similar to how we have dailies in living world maps and other expansion areas in addition to core game locations.

Probably you'll log in and get some Astral Acclaim currency (or some other minor reward), then you'll get tasks that let you earn a bit more Astral Acclaim - essentially your log-in reward is likely to be account-bound currency instead of items. When you have enough currency, you'll then be able to buy stuff from the Vault with the reward pool refreshing on a quarterly basis.

So yeah, I'd say it looks like daily login rewards are going to turn into/be replaced by the Wizard's Vault. Could be a nerf, or could feel all right; we won't know til it gets here.

[Linken.6345]

26 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

I went back to the SotO rewards article and pulled some relevant lines:

• The Wizard’s Vault is a new streamlined rewards system that combines the best elements of the daily login and daily achievement systems
• With the release of Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure, you’ll receive new objectives to complete daily, weekly, and with each quarterly release.
• As you complete objectives you’ll earn Astral Acclaim, a new account-wide currency, which can be exchanged for rewards of your choosing
• Our goal is for Wizard’s Vault rewards are (sic) meant to be attainable through regular, normal play; there are no paid upgrades or progression skips, and the legacy section exists to take the time pressure off and allow players to catch up if they take a break.
• Some Wizard’s Vault tasks and rewards are exclusive to Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure, but all accounts with a level 80 character will have access to the feature.

Judging solely by the wording they chose there, it seems they want to combine the login and daily systems and the upcoming vault feature will be available to everyone, even people who don't have SotO on their account. Those two things together seem to indicate dailies and login rewards will be removed and replaced by the Wizard Vault, with additional dailies and such being available to people who do buy SotO, similar to how we have dailies in living world maps and other expansion areas in addition to core game locations.

Probably you'll log in and get some Astral Acclaim currency (or some other minor reward), then you'll get tasks that let you earn a bit more Astral Acclaim - essentially your log-in reward is likely to be account-bound currency instead of items. When you have enough currency, you'll then be able to buy stuff from the Vault with the reward pool refreshing on a quarterly basis.

So yeah, I'd say it looks like daily login rewards are going to turn into/be replaced by the Wizard's Vault. Could be a nerf, or could feel all right; we won't know til it gets here.

Hopefully they let us trade in revive orbs, armor repair canisters, luck etc you got from old login reward to astral aclaim so you can get some use out of it.

[soul.9651]

6 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

Easy fix, give log in reward after you have done the daily.

 

Or only after you BUY an expansion only.. who thought that free heroic editions are good idea..

[Pifil.5193]

3 hours ago, soul.9651 said:

Or only after you BUY an expansion only.. who thought that free heroic editions are good idea..

They were a good idea handled poorly. They got lots of people to try the game with a little more functionality than a trial account. 

There are also a lot of people who paid for their extra copies of the game. I know I did. Cost a hell of a lot more than 30c too.

[Danikat.8537]

15 hours ago, soul.9651 said:

You dont need any of the expansions for multiboxing accounts to work..heroic editions are enough to get the access to log in rewards, and those are either given away for free or bought for Next to nothing when its on sale (30cents per account).. literally NOONE is buying any of the expansion bundless if we are talking about hundreds or thousands accounts farms.. 

Anet haven't sold the heroic edition in years and they're only occasionally available in promotions. You can sometimes find 3rd party sellers offering it but some of them are massively over-priced. It wouldn't surprise me if some people have bought an expansion when it's discounted to make a second account (or third, fourth etc.) rather than waiting for a promotion.
 

14 hours ago, TheWaternymphHC.1847 said:

Well, because ANet  screwed up the nVidia GeForce NOW promo last year, anyone who wanted hundreds of completely free heroic editions got them back then. If I remember correctly ANet didn't sell any heroic editions for other companies' promotions or gave them away themselves since then. That botched promo is also pretty much the reason why MCs and T3/T4 mats halved in value during the last 15 - 18 months.

That wasn't even the first time. I got 3 free heroic editions in the Kung Fu Tea promotion in spite of the fact that it wasn't supposed to be available outside the USA (I think the company just assumed no one else would download their app). It was also supposed to be limited to 1 per customer but because the app got overwhelmed with people trying to claim the offer it was possible (and in many cases necessary) to spam the 'claim offer' button and then people ended up with multiple account keys. (I gave 2 to friends and used 1 myself.)

It might have happened with other promotions too, but that's the one I remember being a complete mess. I don't think the tea company realised (and assume Anet didn't explain clearly enough) how many players GW2 has and that it's a global game. Either that or they didn't know apps aren't automatically restricted to 1 country and they'd need to set that up. Although I think even when it was restricted to the USA that was still enough people to overwhelm it and cause problems.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Danikat.8537

[SarajielKikiVelika.4952]

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

It might have happened with other promotions too, but that's the one I remember being a complete mess.

I think the problem with the nVidia GeForce Now promo was that it only required a working email-address and nVidia didn't have any restrictions in place that limited the number of new nVidia-account creations. Since nVidia has deep enough pockets to restock keys as needed and the GFN promo wasn't limited by the number of keys available but by the timeframe they announced beforehand, people basically could acquire as many keys as they wanted. Personally I had no issues requesting keys minutes before the promo ended.

I've seen people on reddit and discord bragging about grabbing hundreds of keys and complaining that they actually had trouble creating enough corresponding GW2-accounts since ANet heavily restricts that by ip-ranges and mail-domains. It seems they loosen their restrictions nowadays during sales, but in the past the forums were full of people complaining that they can't create new GW2-accounts with their Gmail addresses, etc.

I can't speak for the NA-server, but on the EU-server you still can find clusters of characters in the dozens that seem to be controlled by one person logging into the game simultaneously. The two craziest people I noticed are usually running around in Rata Sum with all their characters numbered in Roman numerals counting into the 500s. No idea if it's just a joke of them or if they really have that many accounts, but anyone who has a full guild of alt-accounts can pretty much short-circuit anything that requires gold within hours instead of weeks of farming.

[tylersockington.4728]

I suppose the idea here is what would they be fixing by removing the daily login rewards as they currently are? The way the daily login rewards generates someone gold is through selling the mats. There is no raw gold given through daily logins. So the current rendition of daily logins simply creates an influx of supply, making everyone's gold effectively worth more. What's an easy way to make raw gold right now? Actually playing and doing the dailies and weeklies.

Removing the current daily login rewards would crush the supply of mats that we currently have which would end up hurting new players who don't have plenty of gold to spare. Furthermore, it would drop sales of GW2 expansions being that that is, currently, the only way to "easily" get multiple accounts which receive daily login rewards. Lower sales, lower new player retention rate due to the cost of mats going up; it doesn't seem like the logical call to make.

Being that this change could potentially affect sales/player retention, it'd be really nice if we could get some input from Devs.

[SarajielKikiVelika.4952]

22 hours ago, tylersockington.4728 said:

What's an easy way to make raw gold right now? Actually playing and doing the dailies and weeklies.

Can you point us to a gold making method that does 100+ gold per hour that is also scalable?

Keep in mind that at the moment the login-farmers get in average between 1.5g and 1.7g worth of mats (after TP fees!) per login which takes between 20 to 45 seconds, depending on your setup, internet connection and ALT-tabbing skills. Keep also in mind that all you need is a level 2 character which takes about 5 minutes per account to create.

22 hours ago, tylersockington.4728 said:

it would drop sales of GW2 expansions being that that is, currently, the only way to "easily" get multiple accounts which receive daily login rewards.

Why would it drop sales? Since it seems that the new system requires a level 80 character to interact with for the new daily, weekly and quarterly reward system, people might actually start buying SotO-only alt-accounts for gold making. Similar to what people did at the beginning of EoD once they noticed how much gold could be made with the weekly legendary mats and the multiple daily NKC JP chests. It was fewer gold per hour than just login-farming, but it was still more than running around in the Silverwastes or most farming trains that basically require a Skyscale to be more profitable than RIBA.

At the beginning an EoD-only account bought at full price had a breakeven time compared to 2400 gems of around 11 weeks!

Also not everyone who buys expansion alt-accounts uses them just for login-farming. Especially the HoT/PoF accounts at half price are very popular for AFK-farming and EoD-only still makes a decent amount from gen3 legendary mats although the breakeven time nowadays is probably around 5 months.

22 hours ago, tylersockington.4728 said:

Removing the current daily login rewards would crush the supply of mats that we currently have which would end up hurting new players who don't have plenty of gold to spare.

That is a non-sensical argument, since any genuinely new player would also benefit from the higher sales prices of the mats they acquire during leveling, playing through the story, etc. Even with a level 80 boost most new players will learn the ropes of the game, unlock and explore zones, get a feeling for the community, etc. before starting to craft ascended and legendary gear to hop into the endgame.

That type of new player that spends large sums just to skip most non-endgame content at day one is most likely rather rare and those whales usually don't really care about spending additional money on gems for the required gold anyway. 

Furthermore once demand for certain in-game items increases and TP prices (sharply) rise, you will see a lot of long time players switch their farming and gold-making habits and the 'invisible hand' of the market developers will ensure that there is a new equilibrium after a few days or weeks as it always happened before when there were changes to the GW2 economy.

Edited July 3, 2023 by SarajielKikiVelika.4952
typos

[Gerplunka.3861]

On 7/1/2023 at 2:41 PM, tylersockington.4728 said:

Title pretty much explains it all: are daily login rewards going away in Secret of the Obscure? I know some people think that they are, but I don't really see why they would. I've heard the argument that it's pay-to-win to have multiple accounts for the daily login, but we can literally buy gems that directly convert to gold. At this moment, assuming you were to purchase just the HoT and PoF bundle on sale, it takes about 10 months of logging in daily to get the same amount of gold as just buying the gems and converting them.

I don't know, seems pointless to remove them. If an ANet dev could confirm whether or not they are going away, that'd be appreciated and also open this for a more interesting discussion.

Alt accounts are harder pay to win than buying gold because the accounts pay for themselves after only a few months if you buy on sale and then generate pure profit. That being said I don't know if they actually are changing them but they should.

[tylersockington.4728]

Maybe with it no longer being the holiday weekend, we could get some input from devs? I'm just looking for insight on whether or not daily rewards are changing from what they currently are or if they are being added to with the Wizard's Vault.

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

4 minutes ago, tylersockington.4728 said:

Maybe with it no longer being the holiday weekend, we could get some input from devs? I'm just looking for insight on whether or not daily rewards are changing from what they currently are or if they are being added to with the Wizard's Vault.

The devs won't share any more details about upcoming changes to the in-game economy than they already did. They rarely telegraph those changes and if they do, they usually keep them vague to avoid uproar.

From https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/new-rewards-in-guild-wars-2-secrets-of-the-obscure/

Quote

As you complete objectives you’ll earn Astral Acclaim, a new account-wide currency, which can be exchanged for rewards of your choosing, such as new weapons and armor skins, a small selection of items previously exclusive to the gem store, crafting materials, gold, mystic coins, legendary crafting starter kits, and more.

 

[Dante.1508]

I don't like the daily login system its very poor.. you should get 10gold a day. But i don't think they should go away..

[vares.8457]

3 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

you should get 10gold a day.

You shouldn’t 

[Danikat.8537]

1 hour ago, TheWaternymphHC.1847 said:

The devs won't share any more details about upcoming changes to the in-game economy than they already did. They rarely telegraph those changes and if they do, they usually keep them vague to avoid uproar.

They probably won't reply on the forum, but they could do an article specifically about the new Wizard's Vault system which could answer this question, especially if they know it's something lots of us want answered.

They've done detailed articles on features in an expansion as part of the promotion before, like this one about strike missions and changes to rewards in EoD, which listed exactly how much of each currency you'd get each week and how many mystic coins you'd get, among other things.