Discover the Wonders within the Wizard’s Vault in Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure

[starhunter.6015]

1 hour ago, WRay.2391 said:

I'm pretty sure nerf will be enough so ppl will not bother to login to alt accounts.

Anet will lose those Log in numbers on 'Active' players if people don't log into them. That will hurt their numbers and affect them with NCsoft in the long run.  They count active accounts logging in not players/person. 

[gousgou.5438]

On 8/15/2023 at 8:09 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

I'm here and I've got an answer for you!

Gold, Laurels, and Mystic Coins can all be purchased in the Wizard's Vault for completing your daily objectives. Daily achievement points will still be available as well, you'll earn them by completing your Wizard's Vault daily objectives.

You can buy gold with the new currency? WTF !!!

Bad move, the 2g daily was way better than having access to gold like that. Unless it is capped daily but then why not just give the chest with the shards and the gold at 3 dailies completion as it is now????

[WRay.2391]

1 minute ago, gousgou.5438 said:

You can buy gold with the new currency? WTF !!!

Bad move, the 2g daily was way better than having access to gold like that. Unless it is capped daily but then why not just give the chest with the shards and the gold at 3 dailies completion as it is now????

You will be able to acquire just enough AA daily to buy 2 gold.

[WRay.2391]

14 minutes ago, starhunter.6015 said:

Anet will lose those Log in numbers on 'Active' players if people don't log into them. That will hurt their numbers and affect them with NCsoft in the long run.  They count active accounts logging in not players/person. 

If they will have enough gem sale increase stakeholders should be fine with less logins. It's up to players now to vote with their wallets.

[starhunter.6015]

21 minutes ago, WRay.2391 said:

If they will have enough gem sale increase stakeholders should be fine with less logins. It's up to players now to vote with their wallets.

That is true, the loss of player numbers could make NCsoft force price increases on the gemstore items. to make up for what they may think of as lost player income. But most stake holders in game companies do worry about player numbers as they can only milk them so much. 

[WRay.2391]

Just now, starhunter.6015 said:

That is true, the loss of player numbers could make NCsoft force price increases on the gemstore items. to make up for what they may think of as lost player income. But most stake holders in game companies do worry about player numbers as they can only milk them so much. 

It's not even gemstore price increase. Material scarcity will increase TP prices. You'll need to either grind or do gems/gold conversion and seems like this is the intention.

[hurp.9851]

3 hours ago, Acheron.1580 said:

Removing an obvious exploit doesn't warrant compensation, especially if said person has made significant profit off of it already.

If login rewards are an 'obvious exploit' then buying gold would be straight up abuse.

[Acheron.1580]

46 minutes ago, hurp.9851 said:

If login rewards are an 'obvious exploit' then buying gold would be straight up abuse.

One gets you gold indefinitely into the future at no extra cost to you. The other is a system built into the game to generate revenue for Anet. Unless you are talking third party gold at which point yes, that is strait up an abuse of the ToS.

The intent of the system wasn't that because it costs Anet money in the long run, and effectively gives an unfair advantage as long as you are willing to throw money at it. To exploit a system is to use it in an unintended way to give yourself an advantage. If you can honestly find anything that suggests that Anet intended players to buy multiple copies of their game and rack up 2000 gold a month for doing literally nothing, and encouraged a system that allows players to not support further gem store purchases as a result, then I'll take back what I said.

I already know you are going to fall back on "But Anet says it doesn't violate the terms of service" or "if it was an exploit then accounts would have been banned" but my argument to you is they cut you off. The system will no longer support it. If they wanted people to continue doing this, they wouldn't have changed the system for it. There's nothing against giving gold to players (as long as it isn't bought with real money by a third party), there's nothing against giving mystic coins or resources to another player. So how could they possible have policed it? Just because they couldn't find a way to deal with it didn't mean they condoned it. And now it's clear that they don't. So, what do you have to suggest that it isn't an exploit? And don't answer it cost me money because the profit made was significant at literally no effort on your part (hence, it being an exploit).

[WRay.2391]

1 hour ago, Acheron.1580 said:

One gets you gold indefinitely into the future at no extra cost to you. The other is a system built into the game to generate revenue for Anet. Unless you are talking third party gold at which point yes, that is strait up an abuse of the ToS.

The intent of the system wasn't that because it costs Anet money in the long run, and effectively gives an unfair advantage as long as you are willing to throw money at it. To exploit a system is to use it in an unintended way to give yourself an advantage. If you can honestly find anything that suggests that Anet intended players to buy multiple copies of their game and rack up 2000 gold a month for doing literally nothing, and encouraged a system that allows players to not support further gem store purchases as a result, then I'll take back what I said.

I already know you are going to fall back on "But Anet says it doesn't violate the terms of service" or "if it was an exploit then accounts would have been banned" but my argument to you is they cut you off. The system will no longer support it. If they wanted people to continue doing this, they wouldn't have changed the system for it. There's nothing against giving gold to players (as long as it isn't bought with real money by a third party), there's nothing against giving mystic coins or resources to another player. So how could they possible have policed it? Just because they couldn't find a way to deal with it didn't mean they condoned it. And now it's clear that they don't. So, what do you have to suggest that it isn't an exploit? And don't answer it cost me money because the profit made was significant at literally no effort on your part (hence, it being an exploit).

It's not an exploit, it's a system designed badly by Anet and making short term profit from players using this system.
I said several times that if Anet is changing that, they are aware of it and not happy. Right action in this case is to announce that account use like that is discouraged and will be taken care of later. By not doing this they agreed on usage and profits they got from sales, thus making it not an exploit. "Fixing" it now without any notice or compensation is a scammy tactics. They could've done it right and prevent a lot of negativity, but they preferred profits.

[Acheron.1580]

1 hour ago, WRay.2391 said:

It's not an exploit, it's a system designed badly by Anet and making short term profit from players using this system.
I said several times that if Anet is changing that, they are aware of it and not happy. Right action in this case is to announce that account use like that is discouraged and will be taken care of later. By not doing this they agreed on usage and profits they got from sales, thus making it not an exploit. "Fixing" it now without any notice or compensation is a scammy tactics. They could've done it right and prevent a lot of negativity, but they preferred profits.

I mean, a system designed badly enough to take advantage of sounds like justifying an exploit lol, the usual responses are always "Well, it is in the game and the designers put it there so really it's their fault". If I said pay me a one time fee of $400 and every month until the end of GW2 I'll give you a legendary, you'd think that was pretty shady. Would you think something in the game was broken if other people were taking advantage of that and you weren't either because it sounded questionable, or because you didn't have/want to spend that kind of money? Would you be frustrated if Anet did nothing about it? That's literally what's happening with this system. What makes it not an exploit, that you are only doing it a little compared to people who are doing it a lot? That Anet was the ones who got the money? They didn't warn people about changing up of the portal to friend > getting BL keys every 10-15 mins either, they just quashed it quickly. This one was a lot more delicate to figure out how to fix. If you made anywhere over 300 gold for your "efforts" then you already made more than if you had bought gems and converted to gold, and you gamed the system to its profitable point.

[hurp.9851]

2 hours ago, Acheron.1580 said:

One gets you gold indefinitely into the future at no extra cost to you. The other is a system built into the game to generate revenue for Anet. Unless you are talking third party gold at which point yes, that is strait up an abuse of the ToS.

The intent of the system wasn't that because it costs Anet money in the long run, and effectively gives an unfair advantage as long as you are willing to throw money at it. To exploit a system is to use it in an unintended way to give yourself an advantage. If you can honestly find anything that suggests that Anet intended players to buy multiple copies of their game and rack up 2000 gold a month for doing literally nothing, and encouraged a system that allows players to not support further gem store purchases as a result, then I'll take back what I said.

I already know you are going to fall back on "But Anet says it doesn't violate the terms of service" or "if it was an exploit then accounts would have been banned" but my argument to you is they cut you off. The system will no longer support it. If they wanted people to continue doing this, they wouldn't have changed the system for it. There's nothing against giving gold to players (as long as it isn't bought with real money by a third party), there's nothing against giving mystic coins or resources to another player. So how could they possible have policed it? Just because they couldn't find a way to deal with it didn't mean they condoned it. And now it's clear that they don't. So, what do you have to suggest that it isn't an exploit? And don't answer it cost me money because the profit made was significant at literally no effort on your part (hence, it being an exploit).

I appreciate the distinction you're drawing between the two systems. It does help explain why so many people in this thread are bothered by login rewards but not gold buying.

There are lots of systems, financial and otherwise, where the intent of some feature is not to cost the organization extra money but winds up working that way. It's the reason everybody knows that coupons kitten well better say "limit one per customer!" But the lady who got a free car by clipping coupons from her neighbors' newspapers didn't do anything wrong.

Neither our extrapolation of an organization's truest volition nor their preference after the fact is relevant to the definition of exploit. Neither do profit and effort have anything to do with it; and the company later changing the system to prevent a behavior does not retroactively prove the users' moral corruption.

Someone using a system, as designed and with the full awareness of the designer, is not exploiting it.

[WRay.2391]

1 minute ago, Acheron.1580 said:

I mean, a system designed badly enough to take advantage of sounds like justifying an exploit lol, the usual responses are always "Well, it is in the game and the designers put it there so really it's their fault". If I said pay me a one time fee of $400 and every month until the end of GW2 I'll give you a legendary, you'd think that was pretty shady. Would you think something in the game was broken if other people were taking advantage of that and you weren't either because it sounded questionable, or because you didn't have/want to spend that kind of money? Would you be frustrated if Anet did nothing about it? That's literally what's happening with this system. What makes it not an exploit, that you are only doing it a little compared to people who are doing it a lot? That Anet was the ones who got the money? They didn't warn people about changing up of the portal to friend > getting BL keys every 10-15 mins either, they just quashed it quickly. This one was a lot more delicate to figure out how to fix. If you made anywhere over 300 gold for your "efforts" then you already made more than if you had bought gems and converted to gold, and you gamed the system to its profitable point.

If you were proposed $400 for legendary every month, you asked Anet support, and they would tell you it's not against ToS. Took your money and then stop delivering legendaries you would be probably unhappy. I mentioned that ppl in this thread was asking support about this use and got confirmation it's not against ToS.
BL key farming example is totally irrelevant, nobody was paying money for additional copies to farm keys.

Rechargeable TP to friend maybe more relevant, but they fixed it immediately preventing money loss from ppl.

So I hold my opinion about Anet scammy practice, your arguments are mostly moot.

[Cuks.8241]

9 hours ago, WRay.2391 said:

I think ppl here are divided like this:
1. Have ridiculous amount of time, probably less money, probably don't buy gems too much. Don't have alts, farm long time, hate ppl with alts, now happy.

2. Barons, have it all. Full legendary, no major material sink, control market. Probably buy gems converting gold. They are happy CMs price will skyrocket, they will be more rich.

3. Regular ppl with alts, have some money to invest in alts, not that much to buy gems for real money all the time. Not much time to play and grind, but invested enough to work towards goals, use alt materials themselves. This group is screwed, but has potential for Anet to squeeze money from. 

4. Abusers, bot farmers etc. They mostly don't care. Will still bot, will sell for more.

I think all see consequences of changes, some just happy about it for some reason and only one group is screwed.

Aggregation is obviously very rough, but this is what I see as main groups right now, there will be permutation.

Ahahaha. So now regular players have alts for multiple login rewards because "they have no time to play" and players that do their dailies (10min per day) have ridiculous amount of time? 

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

Once again I find myself asking a specific question that I know we aren't going to get an answer to.

ANET have said that the intention is that they want to reward people that are playing more, and those that are just logging in less. Fair enough. So I currently log in every day and do the 4 WvW dailies. In a 28 day period, that currently gives me 20 mystic coins and 11 mystic clovers (7 from the final chest, 4 from the two completed WvW reward tracks). It also gives me at least 56 gold (more than that, of course, because the two reward tracks have value too).

So if I do that under the new system, will I be able to get at least that from the Wizards Tower? At least 20 MC, 11 clovers and 56 gold? Should I expect to be able to get more than that? Roughly how much more? 20%? 50%?

We're less than a week away from launch. Surely you must be able to answer these questions if you wanted to?

[Cronospere.8143]

20 minutes ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Once again I find myself asking a specific question that I know we aren't going to get an answer to.

ANET have said that the intention is that they want to reward people that are playing more, and those that are just logging in less. Fair enough. So I currently log in every day and do the 4 WvW dailies. In a 28 day period, that currently gives me 20 mystic coins and 11 mystic clovers (7 from the final chest, 4 from the two completed WvW reward tracks). It also gives me at least 56 gold (more than that, of course, because the two reward tracks have value too).

So if I do that under the new system, will I be able to get at least that from the Wizards Tower? At least 20 MC, 11 clovers and 56 gold? Should I expect to be able to get more than that? Roughly how much more? 20%? 50%?

We're less than a week away from launch. Surely you must be able to answer these questions if you wanted to?

We are less than a week away from launch. Surely you can wait another few days before the answer automaticly reveals itself to you?  Hehe

Edit: I am positive that the release will clear up a lot more than a small post from a dev at this point. Such a post will certainly give more questions than answers..

Edited August 17, 2023 by Cronospere.8143

[TheThief.8475]

On 8/15/2023 at 11:55 PM, WRay.2391 said:

In addition, why shouldn't anybody get value from something they actually paid for?

Because the game is sold for people to play it, and not to farm free in game items/ golds

[Pifil.5193]

2 hours ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

We're less than a week away from launch. Surely you must be able to answer these questions if you wanted to?

They could easily answer these questions but choose not to because answering them may result in further anger from people. Rubi found time to list the things that would be added to the black lion vouchers here:

That might help drive sales of their Supply Drop so no problems giving that information but they won't give any details on what an AA is worth because that won't help drive sales.

[Pifil.5193]

59 minutes ago, TheThief.8475 said:

Because the game is sold for people to play it, and not to farm free in game items/ golds

The game is sold to make money for ArenaNet and NCSoft the more copies sold the better.

[Ashen.2907]

12 hours ago, Sjentra.3409 said:

With a very lowball estimate of 175 AA a week (25x7), do you honestly thing they'll make 5AA worth 2g?

Only if they limit the ability to purchase gold with AA to 2g, once per day.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

13 hours ago, WRay.2391 said:

I'm pretty sure nerf will be enough so ppl will not bother to login to alt accounts.

And miss my Daily Jade Runestone and unusual coins?! What makes any of you think that there won't be value to existing alt accounts after this change?

[Kalavier.1097]

On 8/15/2023 at 2:23 PM, maceojc.2756 said:

They have altered the deal. Pray they do not alter it anymore. TY arena net for making an expansion that features RE-aquring the skyscale, recoding existing weapons for different existing specs, And removing Daily logins and making us work harder for less rewards. I dont even have alt accounts but this seems like a nerf to even my own account. I loving having to grind more for less stuff so ty.

But we don't have to re-earn the skyscale.

We are gaining new weapons for use in all elite specs.

And you don't even know there is less rewards. Panic much?

[Gibson.4036]

21 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

And miss my Daily Jade Runestone and unusual coins?! What makes any of you think that there won't be value to existing alt accounts after this change?

* Jade runestones have been added to the Wizard’s Vault.

* Chests that used to award Jade Runestones now award two master unidentified items.

👹

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

37 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

* Jade runestones have been added to the Wizard’s Vault.

* Chests that used to award Jade Runestones now award two master unidentified items.

👹

 

You shut your mouth and stop giving them ideas! 🤣

[maceojc.2756]

1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

But we don't have to re-earn the skyscale.

We are gaining new weapons for use in all elite specs.

And you don't even know there is less rewards. Panic much?

We don't have to Re earn the sky scale because many of us already have it is my point. THE primary "NEW" features of this expansion we already have.. is exactly the point. As for new weapons they are coming like 6 months from now. This expansion is really underwhelming. IF this is the best arena net can do I understand and I'm ok with that. It is better than nothing. But an expansion featuring an easier way to acquire a mount I already have. And the ability to use weapons I already have(with new ones coming 6months down the line), and "New" relics which are just basically making me Re grind for my 6 piece rune sets I ALREADY have is pretty lame. I was most excited for 2 new maps. Then i see the video that shows one of the maps is literally just patched assets from previous expansions lol. Its just unfortunate. IF its necessary then i hope this expansion sells really well and they can actually generate new content but I'm pretty underwhelmed.

[pooiyx.7860]

Will these items be available from the Wizard's Vault? 
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chest_of_Black_Lion_Goods#Contents