How the new daily system in Wizards Vault reduced my enjoyment of GW2 [Merged]

[Frostea.7451]

1 minute ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Of course you cant. But that what was written earlier was a stupid comparison to begin with the "7h+" and saying it could be done in  5-10m before make no sense - it didnt exist before. And you dont have to do it now either - nobody is forcing you to do anything. You can completely ignore the vault and farm 30g+ an hour in PvE if all you want is gold and a melted brain.

That the new system has more loot than the old is undeniable.

The point of this thread is, if Im not mistaken, that the new system is less rewarding and looking at it from time/reward angle, yes it is less rewarding. If time is not an issue for you than this system is better for you, since you can get  more out of it. Hope thats clear. 🙂 

[MrJoke.8426]

Totally agree. This system doesn't make you want to enter the game, not even to get the rewards.

I took a break from gw2 for a couple of months, now I'm coming back, but seeing these stupid changes makes me want to play again. 
 

@Rubi Bayer.8493  (forgive the tag, it is to let you know the bad mood and to report it to those who deal with the daily system)

Edited August 26, 2023 by MrJoke.8426

[Zoid.2568]

Wizard's Vault rewards surpasses that of the daily login system.

[Spyro.1632]

Wizard's Vault is good idea - but! in this form is not compatible with the game as we know it - we need to add more options to daily and weekly and also allow players to do them together.  And above all, please separate the login reward from the dailies in Vault and return all the old login reward! Please 🙂 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Spyro.1632

[Blueberry.8095]

What makes me sad is that, the daily will include asking me to do something on an expansion map that I haven't unlock yet because I've purchased the expansion. I want to do things in order, there are other story/map in the previous expansion that I will need to complete before I move on to the new map, having no other option is just either causing me to forfeit it or tp to friend and daily on the new map anyway and see spoiler ahead of the story, if I want to min-max the daily system which is what I usually do.

Also I'd like to add that, before Soto I usually do half of my daily in PvE and the rest in WvW, therefore on average I spend about 1-2 hrs in WvW everyday, more time than what's needed to complete the daily. I've met some friends there and would casually run with them when they're online, even if I'm not running wvw with friend, I'd play a bit longer when I see a tag and join them for raids, because it's fun to do so. After I've selected PvE + WvW as the first week, I immediately deselected it after I saw both the obsidian sanctum JP and the 10x defender as weekly. I'd rather going full PvE now and don't have to login to WvW everyday anymore. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Blueberry.8095

[draxynnic.3719]

The previous thread on this topic seems to have disappeared...

I wonder if one option could be to allow people to change their selection for the day (or week) until they've claimed a reward (other than the login reward). That would allow players to look at their choices and decide on what they want to do on the day, rather than having to choose beforehand and hope that translates to a set they'll actually enjoy.

4 hours ago, Frostea.7451 said:

The point of this thread is, if Im not mistaken, that the new system is less rewarding and looking at it from time/reward angle, yes it is less rewarding. If time is not an issue for you than this system is better for you, since you can get  more out of it. Hope thats clear. 🙂 

The weekly achievements will usually bring the rewards associated with the activity itself on top of the wizard's vault rewards, so overall the time/investment is pretty good. I think one thing that should be kept in mind is that they're trying to reduce the incentive to just have a ton of alt accounts to farm login rewards from. So reducing the reward from simply logging in and placing more of the focus on actually playing is the system working as intended.

[Shuzuru.3651]

5 hours ago, Frostea.7451 said:

If the weeklies take 7 hours to do as someone said here, then Im not sure they should be part of the calculation. What before could be done in 5-10 min now asks for 7+ hours? I not sure I will complete them even once. So for me new system is way less rewarding

For reference, this week, for the all PvE/ all extensions weekly, it is :

- Kaineng Meta (around 30m max, I guess)

- kill 100 Jade mech (0m, thanks kaineng meta) 

- kill a legendary mob (0m, thanks kaineng Jade behemoth)

- salvage 50 item (2min when clearing invent after kaineng meta? 😄 or mostly seemless)

- 7 rift (20-30min, i guess?) 

- 10 event (seamless, and rift and kaineng meta are event)

- 1 fractal, any level (5min?)

- 1 jumping puzzle (15min? Maybe less with portal mes)

Sure, this week can be optimized well, but even if that wasn't the case that probably won't take more than 3 hours, and you can skip 2 for the big reward.

Not sure about WvW and PvP, but historicaly those have always be done seamlessly but playing the mode, so that's probably even better. 

[NaramSin.2693]

I Agree totally, I personally don't like the new "implementation" of the daily, it's far complicated especially for a new player, totally "obscure" (like the expansion name obviously) with the old you could simply explain what to do and allow him to try, with this is a mess, first you have to choose (based on what? as a new player?) then maybe you realize your choice it's wrong so You have to wait another day AND another WEEK! to check if it's ok and so on..
let's say you plan to do Pvp, or WvW legendary as a PVE player, or PVE achievements as a Pvp player, you select the new set and ... You can go play some other game for a day or a week because you will never be able to do a proper daily.
Plus in the old system I could choose at the moment what to do, depending on my mood or my goal for the moment, maybe i could try WvW or pvp, just to see, now you have to select and WAIT again... one day or a WEEK ...
last let's say clearly, the new reward system isn't really better then the old one, just more complicated and static, this was not a good idea Arenanet, actually i have done way less dailies and I still dont know what to do with the wizard token..., this system it's at best annoying for the veterans and "obscure" for new players  that cant really understand what they are doing and why...

[Gibson.4036]

I’ve almost hit max AA in two sessions this week. My friend and I did do Kaineng Blackout, which we wouldn’t have chosen otherwise, but the rest of the time hasn’t really been focused on daily/weekly. A lot of the objectives were cleared by Blackout, and a significant number of the ones that weren’t were general enough (kill enemies while under a utility buff, etc) that we didn’t have to change plans for them to happen.

So far WV feels better to me than the old dailies.

[jokke.6239]

It has improved it for me

I rarely did the daily before, and I often don't play eveyr day when I play

I've kind of missed the monthly from early in the game. 

What I like about the new system is that you don't have to do the login and daily every day to be rewarded

You can just do the weekly and special objectives and you will be able to buy the shinies you want for the seasons

Much better in my opinion

But yes it needs improvements

Edited August 26, 2023 by jokke.6239

[Jianyu.7065]

23 hours ago, CoyrmGreybeard.1746 said:

First, this isn't a ragequit, GW2 is still worth playing, but the changes significantly reduced my enjoyment and the devs should know why. I'm a software developer with decades of experience and I know the value of well reasoned customer feedback. Here's mine to help a game I love.

First, the new system has less choice. In the old system I could log on, and have a dozen things to choose from. I might not choose WvW as often as PvE, but I regularly did, and often ended up playing for a lot longer than I'd intended. The new system I have to pre-register for my "mode", and if I include one I play less frequently it comes at the expense of choices in a mode I'm more likely to play. So you penalize your players for keeping an open mind and trying new stuff, stuff they might discover they enjoy and give them another reason to log on.

Second, I have purchased HoT, PoF, and EoD for myself and my entire family, and we play together. I also encourage friends to join, and help them to get established. In the old system we all got the same dailies and could do them together, in the new system we're getting different objectives in areas we both own and both have completed events in. I get how you wouldn't give an event in an expansion a player doesn't own, but if we own the same expansion give us both the same objective in it. If we can't do dailies together, there is less incentive to log on as a group. Research shows that today people log into games to play with people they know, why would you introduce a change that makes it harder to play with your friends?

Third but related to the second, why exclude new players from the dailies? People without a level 80 character don't have access to dailies under the new system, while the old system gave them under-80 alternatives. It was a much better design. Why lock out new players, they are exactly who you should be giving the most encouragement to!

Fourth, and also related to the second, don't give me a daily I cannot access. The old system was really good about offering things that might be difficult (i.e. many of the jumping puzzles) but at least I could get there. Yesterday I go an objective in an are you had to complete a collection to get into. I exited without doing my dailies. That's just frustrating.

Fifth, the point system is confusing. I like the flexibility to choose more than just 2 gold, and I like that I don't get nothing if I complete 2 of the 3 dailies, but the old system gave strong and immediate reinforcement and did give you smaller rewards for each step. But the new system is at best poorly explained. Even after going to the wiki and reading the article, I feel a bit unsure about the new system. Do seasons reset my points? Do points expire? Are "legacy rewards" really going to stick around? Are the prices going to stay the same of go up after the honeymoon?

Sixth, the new system feels like it rewards a lot less. The daily login gave nice stuff every week, just for logging in, and there was incentive to do more once you did log in. I haven't done the math, but it feels like the reward for just logging in is much less than the old rewards for just logging in every day. Again, I haven't done the math, but it feels like the reward for doing 3 dailies every day for a month is also a lot less. If I took my reward in gold for doing a login and 3 tasks on the list every day for 3 months, in the old system I'd have 180 gold, 60 mystic coins, 100 laurels, 6000 luck, a dozen gem store items, a dozen transmutation charges, 3 celebration boosters, 3 chests of loyalty, 6% gold find, and more. What would I have in the new one? Is it even close?

And the proof is in the pudding. In the last few years I've missed only a couple dozen days of doing dailies, mostly because of vacations or computer problems. But I haven't finished my dailies even once since the expansion came live. I still like the game, and I still feel like logging in, but the desire to log in, and the sense that I'm missing something easy if I skip, is significantly reduced, and that can't be good for the game overall.

I'd love to see an official response to this or to some of the similar posts I've seen, in many games I play or have played the feeling is the devs (or at least the decision makers) just don't care what the players think, and I'd love to see evidence to the contrary here.

Thanks for your time!

 

As a long term player back through GW1 day one, I appreciate you taking the time to put something constructive together.

1. We're seeing this word "choice" everywhere and I don't think it's a precise enough word for what is going on as the difference between the old and new. I think "pre-register" is a good addition to the conversation that is getting us closer to what the real difference is. The old system did offer several options readily available for each mode, but they were routinely the same tasks over and over. While choosing which modes you wanted to play to complete the daily was more accessible, I just dont agree that we genuinely had more choice then than we do now. I do agree that we need something more robust, however, when it comes to "choice" with the new system, like maybe being able to sift through each modes dailies/weeklies without being locked into a reset. I have to believe this will eventually evolve because it is a bit clunky.

2/3/4. About 2 months ago we purchased the complete edition, plus Soto later, for my wife. While she was still under level 10, she was getting daily tasks that were in HoT and PoF and we were frustrated she could not complete her daily tasks. It remained like this through level 80 until she moved through the story enough to access those areas. On the other hand, so far, my wife and I have had the same tasks in the new system. Why this is a 180 from your experience, I don't know.

5. The problem here is that there is fundamentally just not enough info and I 100% agree here. While some greater bits of info have been shared here and elsewhere, accessibility to that info needs to be in a more organized format.

6. If you're just logging in and not playing at all, then yes - you will get less in tangible reward. But, in the old system, what are those rewards really worth to you or anyone else if they're only being collected and not being used. Otherwise, if you logged in and did play the game - this new system has proven mathematically more rewarding by many players who presented their findings in detail here and elsewhere.

I'm not arguing anything you're saying here, just adding perspective. No who is right and who is wrong, okay...

[Ashen.2907]

12 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

... But did you have weeklies in PvE before?

If you compare JUST gathering raw gold from daily over say the first 30 days and ignoring everything else, it should be a total of 1950 (65 a day) astrals. Which is 30g (1g daily) + 90g limited (540 astrals at 6 a piece) + 47g (with the 1410 left at 30 a piece) = 167g. 

In the same time of old 2g daily you would get... 60g.

Of course it's more complicated than this due to the limited supply items in the new vault and the extra astrals from the weeklies, but then the old had of course other loot per chest too.

I mean even on a really, really basic level you can get 3g a day by doing the daily (with no limitation), ignore the weekly and spend the rest of the time farming PvE I guess 🤷‍♂️

Again, my only point was that comparing dailies to dailies does not involve weeklies. If someone wants to bring additional activity in the form of weeklies into the equation for some reason then a similar time investment needs to be added to the other side of the equation.

[Ashen.2907]

11 hours ago, Frostea.7451 said:

7 hours to do as someone said here

The 7 hours involved getting credit for 10 defense events in WvW. Dozens of events, over 100 player kills, 10 event credit.

[Dawdler.8521]

19 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

The 7 hours involved getting credit for 10 defense events in WvW. Dozens of events, over 100 player kills, 10 event credit.

And weeklies have 2 optionals you dont have to do. Every WvW weekly except defender (unless you are lucky enough to hold SM, in which case you can complete it in like 30m), EoTM (nobody visits EoTM) and Obsidian is absolute childsplay you can finish in an hour or two or thereabouts. Also if the wiki is correct, it's not 100 player kills - it's 10 player kills, lol.  It's also pretty much the same weeklies we've done the last 3 months (and still do since WvWers get double loot from doing pretty much the same achievement based weeklies on top of vault weeklies woopwoop).

43 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Again, my only point was that comparing dailies to dailies does not involve weeklies. If someone wants to bring additional activity in the form of weeklies into the equation for some reason then a similar time investment needs to be added to the other side of the equation.

You quoted the entire point I made in regards to your point with comparing just raw gold dailies but you never addressed it with the above. So is it more or not?

Edited August 26, 2023 by Dawdler.8521

[Threat.1639]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but I've been getting dailies that are locked behind story content that I haven't done yet. I find myself just trying to rush through the story to unlock an area so I can do a daily and its making me care very little about the story at this point.

[Charmaigne.7324]

hate it.  Why change something that is working?  Now I just won't do it.  Every time some big change comes along I just leave GW2 and play something else until I'm not so mad anymore.

I don't have to play GW2 I have plenty of games.  It's just a shame that the change came and I didn't get to decide if I wanted it but it's forced on me whether or not I like it.  Why not let people decide to stay the same or change?  Seems fair.  More fair than things changing that I didn't want all the time.

[Blueberry.8095]

Another point why I don't enjoy the new daily system is that, we have "Loot the chest of grand Valdhertz Riches in the Valdhertz Crypts minidungeon" today as 1/4 of the daily. It's not an issue if it isn't bugged; but because it's bugged, we left out with no other option to complete today's daily, which is a huge let down for most of the people.

Hence why we really do new a few options to select from, such that, when one just simply bugged (not because we don't want to do it, and who knows how long until it'll get fixed), we can do something else instead, but in this case, it's just a very anti-player system.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Blueberry.8095

[Kendahna.9542]

At this point, all I want is the log-in reward back... and am pretty sure many others want the same, while on a break or away from the game for any reason, I log in, get my daily and log out until am in the mood or able to invest more time in the game, it just really frustrating the way they just took away login rewards like that. 😞😫

[slamwow.5738]

yea....this is very Blizzard....

[HawkMeister.4758]

On 8/25/2023 at 7:17 PM, CoyrmGreybeard.1746 said:

I'm a software developer with decades of experience

Can you then please tell me my suspicion is wrong that they simply can't do it,

because the whole Wizard daily is now working inside the embedded Chrome browser?

It's basically just Web Designers working on this now,

the real Devs who could code the achievement system are probably gone?

[daimon.9876]

I agree with the OP on points 1 and 4.

On the first point, having a choice is awesome because I don't like certain content (JPs mainly) and would vastly prefer anything else.

On the fourth point, yeah, giving people dailies they don't have access to is lame. My guildie couldn't do one today because he needs to play a bunch of story and get masteries in order to do it. For a system that gives different things to different accounts, it sure doesn't seem to take your progression into account at all.

Adding another super-important point that's been mentioned elsewhere: Please, for the love of God, don't put things in the Wizard's Vault that are bugged! I had "defenses" in WvW the other day, and it was basically 1.5 hours of gameplay to get one. Not because it's hard or I have no skill, but because I had to actively participate in 5 defenses before ONE registered. Today I've got Valdhertz, which bugs out when too many people enter at once. And on a daily? There's a ton of people in there constantly, so no way to start it. I'd wager Vasburg is also in the list, and that also bugs out frequently. Broken systems should be automatically excluded. Or better, fix the bug so we can do the daily/weekly and also just so it's fixed and the game is better.

Final point, please remove all WvW jumping puzzles from the list. Having these in the Vault is like a signpost to toxic people saying, "you can spend your day/week having fun by ruining this daily/weekly for hundreds of players."

[draxynnic.3719]

14 hours ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

On the other hand, so far, my wife and I have had the same tasks in the new system. Why this is a 180 from your experience, I don't know.

According to the wiki, the guild you're representing when you first log in is a factor in which task you receive. So if you and your wife are both representing the same guild, you should be getting the same tasks.

3 hours ago, Blueberry.8095 said:

Another point why I don't enjoy the new daily system is that, we have "Loot the chest of grand Valdhertz Riches in the Valdhertz Crypts minidungeon" today as 1/4 of the daily. It's not an issue if it isn't bugged; but because it's bugged, we left out with no other option to complete today's daily, which is a huge let down for most of the people.

Hence why we really do new a few options to select from, such that, when one just simply bugged (not because we don't want to do it, and who knows how long until it'll get fixed), we can do something else instead, but in this case, it's just a very anti-player system.

Yeah, Valdhertz probably should be just removed from the list. Even when it works properly, it's a minidungeon that's much better done alone or in a small group, not in a mob because it's a daily.

[LeiserTot.3648]

On 8/25/2023 at 7:17 PM, CoyrmGreybeard.1746 said:

Sixth, the new system feels like it rewards a lot less. The daily login gave nice stuff every week, just for logging in, and there was incentive to do more once you did log in. I haven't done the math, but it feels like the reward for just logging in is much less than the old rewards for just logging in every day. Again, I haven't done the math, but it feels like the reward for doing 3 dailies every day for a month is also a lot less. If I took my reward in gold for doing a login and 3 tasks on the list every day for 3 months, in the old system I'd have 180 gold, 60 mystic coins, 100 laurels, 6000 luck, a dozen gem store items, a dozen transmutation charges, 3 celebration boosters, 3 chests of loyalty, 6% gold find, and more. What would I have in the new one? Is it even close?

 

my 2 cents on the rewards

i disagree that the new system is less rewarding, i now have a new mount skin, bought 20 coins and still have over 1k aa to use or save as i please

previous rewards may be, on paper and in total, worth more than what we are getting currently, but i don't want transmutation charges, i don't need luck, i don't want the celebration boosters, i couldn't care less about the gold find and 30% of the "gemstore items" which are contained in the Chest of Blacklion Goods are completely useless to me, 60% are somewhat usable and the only really desirable thing, the black lion key, is rarer than an asura in a competitive cross-race basketball team

there is less raw gold in it, if you save your aa instead of spending it on the limited 6aa/g or the unlimited 30aa/g, but there are so many more options to get for only 2 or 3 aa more which are way more enticing to me than one coin

plus i get 10 guaranteed clovers per week for doing pretty much the same i would do anyway 

so far i don't miss it, and i doubt i ever will if they keep this up

and something a lot of people seem to ignore: the old dailies were not just replaced by a new dailies, the wizards vault as a system is meant to replace daily login AND previous dailies, so disregarding the weeklies when talking about the total rewards of dailies AND daily login vs the new system is ignoring a big chunk of data and it is unfair to the potential the vault has

Edited August 27, 2023 by LeiserTot.3648

[Eulefant.9624]

Well after doing my morning routine of doing dailies on my 3 accounts last 10-12 years I finally am free.

Started skipping dailies as they contain content that simply takes too long.

That and one of my accounts always has some completely different list, like some silly (bugged!) minidungeon in Echovald, a map I havent been to since 3 weks after EoD came out.

Just add more options like many said, same as in old system.

Why change something by destroying it ? Change things keeping the good adding the better !

Edited August 27, 2023 by Eulefant.9624

[bossdonut.1938]

i like the new system except for the bugged missions