sPvP player, I have been trying out WvW during Rush. My thoughts on the gamemode.

[Buzzbugs.1236]

In my few hours playing I've seen the castle in EBG flip colors so many times it made me wonder why nobody seems to give a kitten? It seems a commander captures the castle, there's a few material nodes to gather, then everyone moves on. That's it? No prolonged dramatic sieges? No building up defences? Just the next commander from the other color will come by in 20 minutes when everyone is gone and flip the castle again? Lame..

So I tried out some hours of roaming. But it seems all there is to do is back-cap camps and kill doylaks, and occasionally gank another player.

I think it's a cool mode with a lot of potential. But I actually think sPvP is the overall better mode at the moment. Sure, it's got the same capping system (conquest) but at least it's got a matchmaking system that matches you up with other players where you get to fight on a smaller map for maximum 15 minutes, then you're done. Instead of WvW where you are just running around for long periods of time looking for something to do, and where capturing feels ultimately meaningless.

Edited January 11 by Buzzbugs.1236

[RisingDawn.5796]

You have to realize, there is a lot of randomness involved during this event, especially  with alot of chatmanders, who usually aren't in wvw, unlike all the regulars and veterans playing the game mode.

Whilst roaming can end up just being clouding and ganking tbh, it's best to roam a bit later at night or early in the morning, when there's less people usually.

sPvP is in maintenance mode though,  I much prefer the flexibility  from wvw.

Edited January 12 by CrimsonOneThree.5682

[XenesisII.1540]

Well roaming isn't what it use to be. There's a few annoying specs to deal with that people don't want to deal with. Camps are the spot to find roamers, maybe get there early to defend it instead of back capping them.

SMC flipping and not building up is a good thing, it means no side has an overwhelming boon ball defending it. It's actually the best place to "farm" defense events. Keep fights is usually where you will find the prolonged siege fights. For places like SMC and towers, groups tend to let it be opened, if there's no counter siege defense in place, to use the choke for the fight.

You'll find much more action during prime time when the guilds are on and running their boon balls. Wvw is more about creating and finding action for yourself than the system plopping you down with 3 cap sites for 10 mins, the downtime or travel time is just the same time you would be waiting on a queue for a spvp match, plus you can still earn rewards in those times. 🤷‍♂️

[kash.9213]

Even during an event week where everyone is maxing out reward potential, you can still read how the maps are breathing like other modes. I imagine that's what people in your matchup are doing for the events, but during normal weeks that's still a good idea even if you're roaming or just trying to land fights. 

That sounds like a fantastic SMC fight night. Like XenesisII said, keep fights can get epic, but depending on the servers or time zone SMC can be stacked and held for a long time even with the other two servers grinding it down. 

I guarantee that while you weren't doing anything, others were, but they know the flow. 

Some days there's nothing to do and some matchups don't have the best combo of three servers but most of the time there's something on at least one of the maps. 

What was your idea of roaming before you tried WvW? 

Edited January 11 by kash.9213

[Riba.3271]

There are no real worlds to fight for anymore so people don't care about long-term goals

Defenders almost always win a fight nowadays, so there is no competitive objective scene anymore, just groups that blob to farm.

It is really developer issue. It just isn't competitive gamemode anymore.

[ilMasa.2546]

43 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

In my few hours playing I've seen the castle in EBG flip colors so many times it made me wonder why nobody seems to give a kitten? It seems a commander captures the castle, there's a few material nodes to gather, then everyone moves on. That's it? No prolonged dramatic sieges? No building up defences? Just the next commander from the other color will come by in 20 minutes when everyone is gone and flip the castle again? Lame..

So I tried out some hours of roaming. But it seems all there is to do is back-cap camps and kill doylaks, and occasionally gank another player.

I think it's a cool mode with a lot of potential. But I actually think sPvP is the overall better mode at the moment. Sure, it's got the same capping system (conquest) but at least it's got a matchmaking system that matches you up with other players where you get to fight on a smaller map for maximum 15 minutes, then you're done. Instead of WvW where you are just running around for long periods of time looking for something to do, and where capturing feels ultimately meaningless.

In the vanilla days people cared alot about defending and indeed there were guilds that specialized in the defense of objectives. Then the mentality completely changed, also expansions added and/or changed various mechanics...and so on

So today it takes litterally  seconds for a blob of 50 people to clear all your defensive sieges on walls, and when they built 6 catapults chances are that your walls (abysmal splash damage) are already gone before u even get there. There are some commanders that actually come and defend when you make a call, but there are also tags that want to do just pvp.

IMO, even daily and weekly missions lead to a gameplay like this: people don't play for the sake of pvp but for the rewards. Once upon a time there was eotm to do karma train, now it is absolutely common to see it every day in "normal BLs"

Then obviously, specifically, this is an event that provides a lot of extra exp, so it's normal that people tend to give priority to flipping objectives back and forth rather than defending them.

Furthermore, I don't think it's even a useful event for new players. If you've never played wvw and you enter during a similar event, that's the idea you get about the mode, as your topic shows:
- spvp player
- you join wvw for the first time
- you're like "what the kitten is this?"

Edited January 11 by ilMasa.2546

[ArchonWing.9480]

The castle is designed to be flipped. It is only worth 1.5x a Keep, and is significantly harder to defend.  It's used more as a distraction to attack something else. However, in practice EBG  tends to be a flipping train unless organized guilds are on. But they often can't get on due to the queues during event weeks to  EBG.

Also this is the week before alliances beta, meaning the results don't affect anything next week. The bonus event rewards also skew the gameplay towards players that want to capture things.

WvW is much more of a sandbox mode, so the gameplay often turns into a reflection of the players involved due to a lack of concrete goals of concern. So yes, sometimes you'll get some dull hours.

Edited January 11 by ArchonWing.9480

[Dawdler.8521]

Imagine going to into sPvP for a single match, have some guy AFK, a duo on the other team and someone barking orders in chat all the time.

Then proclaim that the entire sPvP mode is garbage.

[Doo Lally.8594]

21 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Imagine going to into sPvP for a single match, have some guy AFK, a duo on the other team and someone barking orders in chat all the time.

Then proclaim that the entire sPvP mode is garbage.

Dammit - you've just captured my entire PvP experience in the last 11 yrs! 🙂

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Buzzbugs topic...

[Zepoolpe.9217]

52 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Imagine going to into sPvP for a single match, have some guy AFK, a duo on the other team and someone barking orders in chat all the time.

Then proclaim that the entire sPvP mode is garbage.

Ok... but saying that the current WvW is garbage is not really far off reality. 

It's actually quite spot on tbh

[SweetPotato.7456]

5 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

In my few hours playing

stay longer.

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Imagine going to into sPvP for a single match, have some guy AFK, a duo on the other team and someone barking orders in chat all the time.

Then proclaim that the entire sPvP mode is garbage.

I remember when you could avoid that by just queuing with 4 other friends.

But you can't do that anymore, probably because it's like a dead game mode or something where the matchmaking just picks whoever's there. Regardless, a competitive  team game mode where you can't play with friends which is like a major  appeal of any real competitive game ust seems really weird.

Edited January 11 by ArchonWing.9480

[Dawdler.8521]

15 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I remember when you could avoid that by just queuing with 4 other friends.

But you can't do that anymore, probably because it's like a dead game mode or something where the matchmaking just picks whoever's there. Regardless, a competitive  team game mode where you can't play with friends which is like a major of appeal of any real competitive game ust seems really weird.

It’s almost like having a 5 man organised group vs 5 randoms in a 5v5 hotjoin pvp mode was a bad idea.

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

It’s almost like having a 5 man organised group vs 5 randoms in a 5v5 hotjoin pvp mode was a bad idea.

Yea normally wouldn't they just make it so that arranged teams would only face other arranged teams?  But I guess that would take too long.

[Widebody.5071]

11 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

In my few hours playing I've seen the castle in EBG flip colors so many times it made me wonder why nobody seems to give a kitten? It seems a commander captures the castle, there's a few material nodes to gather, then everyone moves on. That's it? No prolonged dramatic sieges? No building up defences? Just the next commander from the other color will come by in 20 minutes when everyone is gone and flip the castle again? Lame..

So I tried out some hours of roaming. But it seems all there is to do is back-cap camps and kill doylaks, and occasionally gank another player.

I think it's a cool mode with a lot of potential. But I actually think sPvP is the overall better mode at the moment. Sure, it's got the same capping system (conquest) but at least it's got a matchmaking system that matches you up with other players where you get to fight on a smaller map for maximum 15 minutes, then you're done. Instead of WvW where you are just running around for long periods of time looking for something to do, and where capturing feels ultimately meaningless.

Defense in wvw was turned into a bad word years ago, hence all the nerfs to structures, siege, defense points and bonuses, and stab. While at the same time pirate ship and boonball meta was encouraged. It wasn't Anet doing it was what some of the player base wanted and they came to the forums and complained like there was no tomorrow. At times even effecting PVE and PVP play. The new request is [lets remove gliding from wvw it'll be interesting], it's very chaotic in this game mode.

[Sweetbread.3678]

It's just spvp with prettier scenery and somehow even worse balance. Maybe the 10% of the time you aren't fighting some idiot boon blob, gank squad specifically seeking out 5v1 scenarios, or some degenerate roaming spec with a .05 iq requirement, the mode can actually feel interesting, but most of the time it seems like WvW was created in a lab to specifically shine a spotlight on all of GW2's worst design flaws. Honestly the only reason it's population is even remotely viable is because players are constantly forced into it for Gifts of Battle or bribed with beta events for a restructuring that'll most likely never be released.

[Junkpile.7439]

To be fair it always 1 vs 4 in spvp too. Still haven't played spvp match where people try to win a match. They just run around a map in group and cap.

[TheGrimm.5624]

14 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

In my few hours playing I've seen the castle in EBG flip colors so many times it made me wonder why nobody seems to give a kitten? It seems a commander captures the castle, there's a few material nodes to gather, then everyone moves on. That's it? No prolonged dramatic sieges? No building up defences? Just the next commander from the other color will come by in 20 minutes when everyone is gone and flip the castle again? Lame..

First off, welcome to WvW and thanks for the post. sPvP used to be a training ground for WvW that allowed players to set up builds and practice before heading WvW where they may face equal numbers or may not. Odds are good they wouldn't but it would still help in the concepts of WvW. Now we are not in the same state so the modes drift further apart.

14 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

So I tried out some hours of roaming. But it seems all there is to do is back-cap camps and kill doylaks, and occasionally gank another player.

Roaming is still quite like sPvP. Do the most with the least. In WvW you have potential bigger targets than in sPvP. What can you do in 1 v X  has even higher risks than in sPvP. So the challenge goes up and is not limited in time. 1 v more is always an option. Camps are where you lure defenders to you take the players and the camps. Towers you can solo or likewise draw in players. Keeps bring a battle buddy. SMC bring 2 unless you want a serious challenge on its own without scaling. In short, roaming changes your challenge mode. Havocing with battle buddies increases your targets and objectives. Going larger means seeking better fights or going easy mode like a 3 v 1 in sPvP.

14 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

I think it's a cool mode with a lot of potential. But I actually think sPvP is the overall better mode at the moment. Sure, it's got the same capping system (conquest) but at least it's got a matchmaking system that matches you up with other players where you get to fight on a smaller map for maximum 15 minutes, then you're done.

This is what makes WvW more interesting is in its not as predictable as sPvP. Worse I face is a 1v5. In WvW it maybe a 2-6 vs a 10-20. This increases the challenge of it. If you never try a 1 v more how do learn what to do the next time?

14 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

Instead of WvW where you are just running around for long periods of time looking for something to do, and where capturing feels ultimately meaningless.

Agree there is a lot more running around in WvW with bigger maps. This is again why I think it was bad to move sPvP further away as a WvW training ground and removing build options which lead to less WvW players playing sPvP overtime. Would also agree as they removed reasons to win we lost players in WvW. That also lead to more players that look to win for the sake of it or those just looking to fight or those just looking to fight and hang out. Reasons vary per player, guild, server, tier and region. But it means the players we retained are less looking at the loot and something else. So if they add the something else how many more do we gain and does that mean more for the ones we retained? Might be some good hunting.

[LSD.4673]

Only who can prevent back-caps?

Only you can prevent back-caps.

[ArchonWing.9480]

8 hours ago, LSD.4673 said:

Only who can prevent back-caps?

Only you can prevent back-caps.

If only you could hang posters outside the Keep like that.

That would be real content.

[Buzzbugs.1236]

Well it's been a few days and I've only been back to the mode once or twice. The thing that was keeping me in WvW was getting a Gift of Battle. Now that I have it, I'm back to sPvP to get some gold. WvW was giving me some WvW skirmish tickets instead, but I'm not sure what the value that is to me? When Gold can be used for almost everything. And so sPvP rewards are just universally better in my mind.

Don't get me wrong, I can see why some may enjoy WvW. I still think it has potential. But the content is obviously outdated.. even more outdated than sPvP somehow.

Edited January 12 by Buzzbugs.1236

[SweetPotato.7456]

Riddle me this: why do people think that WvW is a 1v1 scenario? 

[kash.9213]

35 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

Well it's been a few days and I've only been back to the mode once or twice. The thing that was keeping me in WvW was getting a Gift of Battle. Now that I have it, I'm back to sPvP to get some gold. WvW was giving me some WvW skirmish tickets instead, but I'm not sure what the value that is to me? When Gold can be used for almost everything. And so sPvP rewards are just universally better in my mind.

Don't get me wrong, I can see why some may enjoy WvW. I still think it has potential. But the content is obviously outdated.. even more outdated than sPvP somehow.

I'm curious why you would wait for an event week and then make this thread if you only have statements and no questions. 

[Buzzbugs.1236]

25 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

I'm curious why you would wait for an event week and then make this thread if you only have statements and no questions. 

I'm giving my feedback.

I came to WvW, I tried to get into it, but couldn't. So I tried to explain why I think that is. I tried to be constructive. You may take it as you wish.