CM in the wizard's special tab

[kharmin.7683]

4 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

There is a surprising lack of backlash. 

The toxic casuals are currently in other threads. 

Or simply don't care.  /shrug

[DanAlcedo.3281]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Or simply don't care.  /shrug

Which is a good thing. 

Happy people play the game. 

Angry people are on the forum. 

So either people are happy with the game or they are playing palworld before Nintendo drops the Hammer. 

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

8 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Which is a good thing. 

Happy people play the game. 

Angry people are on the forum. 

So either people are happy with the game or they are playing palworld before Nintendo drops the Hammer. 

Maybe we hit a  communicating wall with each other , with the "we don't need it ,  we should spent the resources elsewhere" , or proceed  to circlekitten till the thread is closed , rather than iterate and find something new -middle ground .

Which is good a good thing for the company , because now they can copy other mechanics-minigames from other games, and people will like it propably  (ingame people fish despeite people say in the forums) 

 

Spoiler

(brb 1-2months hiding from the daily mod:P)

 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

1 minute ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Maybe we hit a  communicating wall with each other , with the "we don't need it ,  we should spent the resources elsewhere" , or proceed  to circlekitten till the thread is closed , rather than iterate and find something new -middle ground .

Which is good a good thing for the company , because now they can copy other mechanics-minigames from other games, and people will like it propably  (ingame people fish despeite people say in the forums) 

 

  Hide contents

(brb 1-2months hiding from the daily mod:P)

 

I struggle to understand what you are talking about. Not in the mean way. Literally. 

I also don't know if you talk about gw2 or palworld. 

[Astralporing.1957]

58 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Happy people play the game. 

Angry people are on the forum.

Yeah, that was what people were being told in Star Wars Galaxies after NGE patch. Or in many other games that ended up dead shortly after.

TL/DR; It's a popular sentiment, but unfortunately one that's not supported by reality.

[Sobx.1758]

Nice, thank you for this addition. 

On 1/23/2024 at 7:55 PM, Aurora.9347 said:

Why.... most players have trouble getting into cm's, the communities gate keeps this crappy content locked un heavy requirements not having any chances to get in, so why put it in the special of the wizards vault... unbelievable, cm gives higher rewards already... it's supposed to be a stepping stone when a person has gotten a fair share of experience how many new players that recently reached end game are actually going to do the cm... ah screw it not like i'm playing the game much lately...

Not getting constant free rides through content doesn't mean it's gatekept. It isn't, nobody has a way to lock you out of using lfg. And if you don't want to... Is that AA required for anything you otherwise can't get? How is this a problem, even moreso when you end with "Im not playing the game much lately"? Looks like complaining for the sake of complaining? 

[RAZOR.7246]

Right idea to use the Wizard's Vault to get players into harder content. 

Terrible execution and it's not going to do anything other than cause more unrest until the fundamental issues are fixed. 

Why don't you devs actually go into casual groups first and see what the problems are before doing stuff like this. I've seen how you lot group together to do stuff which is not reflective of the pug experience even if your skill levels aren't particularly high. In terms of CO CM, it's not a hard fight. Mechanics are not punishing and are pretty much the same as normal with a few small exceptions that still can be handled easily. Pretty good CM for beginners who want to get into this sort of thing.  Very easy clear for semi-experienced groups.

What's the problem then? The issue is where groups actually wipe. 1 is the CC, which is fair enough, I don't think that should be changed at all. If you can't do something as simple as CC, you probably shouldn't be trusted to manage harder mechanics anyway. The other is the enrage timer. Have you seen how bad the average player is at doing DPS? Just tag up in a convergence or something and you'll see them doing 1/2 or 1/3 of what a fairly average DPS should be doing. That's because they play on builds that focus more on their survivability and they don't see how much that takes away from what they need to be doing at all because the casual player doesn't give enough of a kitten to get a DPS meter or to do anything about it even if they do. I've said for many years now, the biggest thing stopping players from getting into raiding is the enrage timers because they cannot play at their own pace.  Take away the enrage timer on CO CM and it's a comfortable clear for a noob group learning how to do mechanics although it would take 20+mins instead of the 10min restriction currently in place. That's not an exaggeration, almost all of these kinds of casual groups I've been in are at around 50% when enrage timer hits. I can tell you, having played in many a top tier and even mid-range group that the enrage timer doesn't bother anyone in a semi-decent group and as such, is a useless mechanic to put in place that only punishes weak players who can't DPS. 

Edited January 26 by RAZOR.7246

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, RAZOR.7246 said:

I can tell you, having played in many a top tier and even mid-range group that the enrage timer doesn't bother anyone in a semi-decent group and as such, is a useless mechanic to put in place that only punishes weak players who can't DPS. 

That's probably the idea - those average players should in truth not be even trying that CM, and having a filter that keeps them out, without affecting hard content veterans is probably fine. The issue is, of course, when (like in this case) Anet tries to push such an average player towards the content that is not meant for them. To get those kinds of players (maybe) hooked, it's better to push them towards normal strikes, that do not have mechanics to filter them out.

Of course, SotO strikes are just plain bad for encouraging anyone (and are so far the worst set we've got, losing out hard both to IBS and to EoD ones, even if for different reasons). Additionally, which is worse, Anet apparently has no idea why this is so. So, apparently, expecting them to realize why the special wasn't exactly a good idea (and is almost certain to backfire) would probably be hoping for too much.

Oh well, a pity. It's not like this hadn't happened earlier with raids - the end result will likely be the same. In fact, they probably already are, because it's clear Anet uses Vault to steer people into those parts of the game they'd want to raise popularity of. So, probably CM numbers aren't good enough for then and they felt the need to intervene. If this happens so soon after its release, well, that doesn't look good, does it?

[Machineuzi.5604]

2 hours ago, RAZOR.7246 said:

Right idea to use the Wizard's Vault to get players into harder content. 

Terrible execution and it's not going to do anything other than cause more unrest until the fundamental issues are fixed. 

Why don't you devs actually go into casual groups first and see what the problems are before doing stuff like this. I've seen how you lot group together to do stuff which is not reflective of the pug experience even if your skill levels aren't particularly high. In terms of CO CM, it's not a hard fight. Mechanics are not punishing and are pretty much the same as normal with a few small exceptions that still can be handled easily. Pretty good CM for beginners who want to get into this sort of thing.  Very easy clear for semi-experienced groups.

What's the problem then? The issue is where groups actually wipe. 1 is the CC, which is fair enough, I don't think that should be changed at all. If you can't do something as simple as CC, you probably shouldn't be trusted to manage harder mechanics anyway. The other is the enrage timer. Have you seen how bad the average player is at doing DPS? Just tag up in a convergence or something and you'll see them doing 1/2 or 1/3 of what a fairly average DPS should be doing. That's because they play on builds that focus more on their survivability and they don't see how much that takes away from what they need to be doing at all because the casual player doesn't give enough of a kitten to get a DPS meter or to do anything about it even if they do. I've said for many years now, the biggest thing stopping players from getting into raiding is the enrage timers because they cannot play at their own pace.  Take away the enrage timer on CO CM and it's a comfortable clear for a noob group learning how to do mechanics although it would take 20+mins instead of the 10min restriction currently in place. That's not an exaggeration, almost all of these kinds of casual groups I've been in are at around 50% when enrage timer hits. I can tell you, having played in many a top tier and even mid-range group that the enrage timer doesn't bother anyone in a semi-decent group and as such, is a useless mechanic to put in place that only punishes weak players who can't DPS. 

Timer is part of the CM, its there to stop people from bringing 10 full Nomad geared people that can afk through 90% of the mechanics.

[Luthan.5236]

I play fractals up to T3, easy strikes - and maybe the dungeons (since dungeon rush). No raids, no CMs. But do I care? No! This season runs for longer than the previous one. I even buy the revive orbs now. Only ignoring the vision crystals (too much in storage from normal drops), the luck and the crafting bag.

That CM just means like 8.33 gold or so. Not a big deal to NOT do it and them having it in the vault for people that do it anyways + getting some people to do it that were not sure whether they should try or not.

[jozze.9532]

44 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Anet tries to push such an average player towards the content that is not meant for them.

And by "push" we mean "small incentive of 250AA (8g value)".

Quote

it's better to push them towards normal strikes, that do not have mechanics to filter them out.

They already do that. It's in the weeklys to do 1 strike.

Quote

SotO strikes are just plain bad for encouraging anyone

CO can be seen as a beginner strike. ToF looks like a strike that has potential, to be more challanging.

Quote

Additionally, which is worse, Anet apparently has no idea why this is so. So, apparently, expecting them to realize why the special wasn't exactly a good idea (and is almost certain to backfire) would probably be hoping for too much. [...] If this happens so soon after its release, well, that doesn't look good, does it?

You are speaking really confidently for someone without any data on the issue. We know that the general endgame population is small. They said it multiple times. They also said, that they need to justify the effort put into new encounters. Using bosses from the story for strikes was one way to compensate. Most PvE players that never did strikes, will still not become an instanced endgame gamer. But i have seen a lot of people who wrote that they finally tried the strike CM after putting it off forever. They successfully gave those players their final push.

I have heard from multiple veterans in my communities, that they open more and more beginner groups and how good the experiences are as long as people listen to the commanders. Even in this thread we have only seen a handfull of people, who see it not as a good idea.

In the end it is an optional thing to do that is only worth additional 8g. interested players turn to veterans that open beginner groups, some people try it on their own without veteran help, PvX guilds are making it a guild activity to allow their members to finish the task if they are interested. It is not only a bonus for experienced players, but also a tool to enrich communities.

The issue with raids are on a completely different level and i don't even want to spread out all the stuff about early gw2 players having bad memories of wow raids and therefore not wanting to try raids in the first place, or the sudden difficulty spike with HoT wich made even a lot of players leave. This is a topic for another thread.

Edited January 26 by jozze.9532
typos

[BatelGeuce.3591]

3 hours ago, RAZOR.7246 said:

Right idea to use the Wizard's Vault to get players into harder content. 

Terrible execution and it's not going to do anything other than cause more unrest until the fundamental issues are fixed. 

Why don't you devs actually go into casual groups first and see what the problems are before doing stuff like this. I've seen how you lot group together to do stuff which is not reflective of the pug experience even if your skill levels aren't particularly high. In terms of CO CM, it's not a hard fight. Mechanics are not punishing and are pretty much the same as normal with a few small exceptions that still can be handled easily. Pretty good CM for beginners who want to get into this sort of thing.  Very easy clear for semi-experienced groups.

What's the problem then? The issue is where groups actually wipe. 1 is the CC, which is fair enough, I don't think that should be changed at all. If you can't do something as simple as CC, you probably shouldn't be trusted to manage harder mechanics anyway. The other is the enrage timer. Have you seen how bad the average player is at doing DPS? Just tag up in a convergence or something and you'll see them doing 1/2 or 1/3 of what a fairly average DPS should be doing. That's because they play on builds that focus more on their survivability and they don't see how much that takes away from what they need to be doing at all because the casual player doesn't give enough of a kitten to get a DPS meter or to do anything about it even if they do. I've said for many years now, the biggest thing stopping players from getting into raiding is the enrage timers because they cannot play at their own pace.  Take away the enrage timer on CO CM and it's a comfortable clear for a noob group learning how to do mechanics although it would take 20+mins instead of the 10min restriction currently in place. That's not an exaggeration, almost all of these kinds of casual groups I've been in are at around 50% when enrage timer hits. I can tell you, having played in many a top tier and even mid-range group that the enrage timer doesn't bother anyone in a semi-decent group and as such, is a useless mechanic to put in place that only punishes weak players who can't DPS. 

Why do we keep shifting the blame from players to devs. Doing average dps is nothing difficult especially since we have all these LI builds now. So much content has been nerfed due to people whining about it being too challenging instead of just getting better at their role. You don't even need to memorize the rotation to carry your own weight, just put in some effort to learn how the class works (you need that for both dps and heal) and be average, even a father of 69 who can only play for 2 hours a day can do that. It worked for me so far.

[Cyninja.2954]

20 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yeah, that was what people were being told in Star Wars Galaxies after NGE patch. Or in many other games that ended up dead shortly after.

TL/DR; It's a popular sentiment, but unfortunately one that's not supported by reality.

That's the thing though: you've been dooming for a while now, clearly unhappy with many directions the developers have taken the game. Yet according to all official communication we have, and announcements and "security as far as near future content goes", the game is doing better than in the past (and for once we have more than the next few months worth of announced content).

There is dooming, which eventually will always be right, because games will end, and there is not liking the direction a game develops even if the game thrives. You might want to wonder which exactly it is for you and which sentiment is over-represented.

The one thing that seems clear: the developers seem to try to keep players of many niches (from instanced content to open world to wvw) some what happy. Seems that is something a part of this player base is in disagreement with (which I get, having developers focus shift to areas one doesn't enjoy or agree with does not spark feelings of joy). Question is: does the salt exceed the benefit to the games stability?

EDIT

Having 1 optional special tab activity which encourages players go out of their comfort zone, or rewards players for doing specific content, is no big deal. If it was, the Spvp and WvW crowd would get first dibs on getting to complain and the PvE crowd is wildly over-represented (especially easy content focus).

One part of the player base might want to reconsider how entitled they should be allowed to be.

Edited January 26 by Cyninja.2954

[DanAlcedo.3281]

The amount of people on the forum is so small, I can tell by the user icon alone who posted a topic. 

And given that 95% of topics created are whining, I would say that the amount of unhappy people is not that big. 

I most salt I see ingame is stuff like Openworld Warriors still being mad about the Arc Divider change or Metas getting boring after doing them 30 times but they still do them. 

[Kiki.9450]

7 hours ago, BatelGeuce.3591 said:

 even a father of 69 who can only play for 2 hours a day can do that. It worked for me so far.

Are... are you a rabbit? :<

[Ashen.2907]

10 hours ago, RAZOR.7246 said:

Why don't you devs actually go into casual groups first and see what the problems are before doing stuff like this. I've seen how you lot group together to do stuff which is not reflective of the pug experience

For what its worth Ive led or participated in many pug groups and have had ANet devs in group a surprising number of times. Theyve asked the sorts of questions that feed into what you are saying.

[Alethia.3597]

An ANet tag may be an artist or a sound designer etc, in their free time they may need to learn mechanics just like the rest of us do.

For people lurking and thinking this is still beyond them to attempt, most training runs I'm running are still going well.  Longest streak with a group until they got it down, with some very new to the content players, was just under 2. 5 hours.  But of the 12 groups I have taken through so far (including the long one) the average clear time, excluding instuctions before we start and tips between pulls, is 31 minutes to a kill.

[Cuks.8241]

1 hour ago, Alethia.3597 said:

An ANet tag may be an artist or a sound designer etc, in their free time they may need to learn mechanics just like the rest of us do.

For people lurking and thinking this is still beyond them to attempt, most training runs I'm running are still going well.  Longest streak with a group until they got it down, with some very new to the content players, was just under 2. 5 hours.  But of the 12 groups I have taken through so far (including the long one) the average clear time, excluding instuctions before we start and tips between pulls, is 31 minutes to a kill.

Yeah did a few LFG no requirement CO CMs with mostly first timers and would say the average clear requires 3-4 pulls. 

Also I don't think CO CM is so bad as many claim here. Yeah it's below CM level of difficulty that was set for EOD strikes, and it's a boring strike but for someone that usually not tackle CMs it's a good next step. It's still probably easier than HT normal (which again I think is a good difficulty ceiling for non CM players).

[zeyeti.8347]

On 1/23/2024 at 7:55 PM, Aurora.9347 said:

unbelievable, cm gives higher rewards already

Me opening my dagda cm chest and having 2 non id gold

cm does not give enough reward at all , the eod is fine , you get the crappy chest who will loot non id gold 95% of the time but also 1 antic summoning stone. They should add a chest with 1 selectable reward choice : 1 méta reward from one of the maps of soto worth the 250 money from maps , the pouch of stars , the electric cage or the bag of screams i don't know the name, then it would be worth to into cm , but atm doing dagda cm , only give +2 golds and one chest with 95% of the time crap inside...

And for the insights 250 vault money is equal 8 gold ... you can bypass on that easily , as many ppl said they need to do more stuff than that , rewards for hard content is never worth it (only fractals cm's and daylis seems really money wise worth)

Edited January 28 by zeyeti.8347

[Pinkeh.4207]

The cm wasn't that bad but getting a competent group together was quite difficult. All the down time and inexperienced people joining/leaving was frustrating. Eventually we got enough experienced people together via LFG to clear it in a few pulls.

 

I think if you wanted 8 gold doing T4 daily/recs cm  is more reliable.

 

Edited January 28 by Pinkeh.4207

[Shiyo.3578]

On 1/23/2024 at 2:00 PM, Randulf.7614 said:

This is exactly what they should be doing more of. There was a request for raids too

No they shouldn't. Raids / CM's are done by such a small minority and should remain that way.

I knew they'd continue to pick the worst option for a battle pass(ruin the game option) and try to get players to do content they hate doing.

Blizzard tried doing this for a decade and finally learned that you don't force players to do things they don't want to do, or they quit the game.

Anet is in for a rude awakening.

Edited January 28 by Shiyo.3578

[Sobx.1758]

On 1/23/2024 at 8:00 PM, Randulf.7614 said:

This is exactly what they should be doing more of. There was a request for raids too. The special tab is one hundred percent optional and it’s better there than the weekly or daily tab because then those who do not want it can ignore it safely. Or maybe they can dip their toes in and try something they haven’t before.

True, they should. And true that skipping some special objective task won't suddenly break someone's ingame experience.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

No they shouldn't. Raids / CM's are done by such a small minority and should remain that way.

I knew they'd continue to pick the worst option for a battle pass(ruin the game option) and try to get players to do content they hate doing.

Blizzard tried doing this for a decade and finally learned that you don't force players to do things they don't want to do, or they quit the game.

Anet is in for a rude awakening.

Having to do a Strike CM that is easier than most Raid bosses, Strikes and Fractals is ruining the game. 

When you hate doing content other than Tarir you're considering Anet giving rewards for doing other PvE content ruining the game.

[Conner.4702]

I'm in the camp of CM's shouldn't be in the vault. Yes it is optional to do them, but at the same time it further segregates those that do and don't do CM's. 

After many many bad groups were I seriously doubt that some people even understood the basic normal mode mechanics. I finally got into a half guild group and did it, but the lead up with all those bad groups was not a good experience at all. I don't dislike hard content, but having to deal with either people that simply aren't good enough or people that are too elitist is not fun for anyone.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Conner.4702 said:

I'm in the camp of CM's shouldn't be in the vault. Yes it is optional to do them, but at the same time it further segregates those that do and don't do CM's. 

How?

1 hour ago, Conner.4702 said:

After many many bad groups were I seriously doubt that some people even understood the basic normal mode mechanics.

So the issue were the players who tried blindly rushing into cm without even understanding/completing normal mode and not that there is a task in a vault. I experienced people running away from the green arrow like headless chickens in co cm before that task was added.