The Skyscale Epidemic in Open World

[Debaros.1635]

Only tangentially related:

The number of posts saying the warrior wouldn’t be able to solo the bounty or that it was silly to expect baffle me. How do you know? Poor warrior has their reputation being dragged without even being given a chance.

 

if they were a celestial berserker, a life leach power bladeesworn or something they probably could. Legendary bounties are very solo able with the current power creep and I for one would love an audience - it would be like the Bozja duels in ff14. My ego cannot be contained

[Randulf.7614]

On 1/28/2024 at 3:44 AM, Linken.6345 said:

To bad gw2 have a better flying mount before the skyscale

 

Whilst I agree fundamentally, the skyscale does not require skill. That video - whilst awesome - is something 99% of players are unlikely to be able to pull off at such a high level of skill. Otherwise we'd be seeing it everywhere

[Luthan.5236]

I played everything in order of release. And I wouldn't mind if there was a system that allowed mounts/glliding only in maps that got released later after the specific gameplay function got released. But I can see why this is a major selling point and they want new players to directly go for those mounts. (+ veteran players can faster get map/world completion in core with the use of mounts - which is convenient)

Wanting to play "as intended" - that is up to the player. (I liked it. Though for EoD I played with Skyscale even though the maps also seem to partly have been intended to be played without flying mounts. At least the Kaineng and Echovald. I do not even know how to quickly move around without skyscale there lol.)

For most older content and people rushing it: Outside the special events that give you tasks to to "5 events in a beginner zone" it should not be a major problem. World bosses if you know where to be - you can be there fast enough before it starts. Certain longer metas later ... might be a problem. In the past I think I heard this for Drizzlewood and running for the champs with the hidden caches. Where skyscale is very convenient. (Though you have the drop parachute mechanics there.)

Edited January 29 by Luthan.5236

[zistenz.1945]

On 1/28/2024 at 4:11 PM, Yaki.9563 said:

I think the skyscale was a mistake.

I'm not saying skyscale was a total mistake, but since SotO* the game devaluates the higher level utilities pretty fast: practically free skyscale, mishmashed weapon mastery (now that was a mistake imho), "free" ascended boxes (via WV), now "free" legendary items... I'm not sure this is a good and healthy thing we're heading to.

* I skipped EoD and SotO, but I still have the LWS4 way to obtain it later.

[A Hamster.2580]

I agree with OP. This is what happens when you keep catering to the ultra casuals. I think Anet will eventually introduce an "auto-play" mode that will allow players to afk while their characters continue playing the game and progressing their account (automated open world completion, automated Gift of Battle farming in WvW, auto battle in PvP, automated fractals/raids/strikes completion, etc.)

 

I avoid playing Open World for more than a year now because of leechers and afk botters that scale up meta events and discourage tagging up, but I still see these types of players in competitive modes. Just two days ago, I was running open tag in WvW and had someone continuously whispering me asking for shared participation so that they can afk and still farm their Gift of Battle. They even offered to pay me.

 

Please Anet if you are reading this, stop catering to the ultra casuals. Do you really want the game to head the way of those auto-play mobile games? I just want to play the game but these casual leechers are getting real annoying. 

Edited January 29 by A Hamster.2580

[Valaraukar.7652]

I agree too with the op.

Seeing people spamming fireball with their skyscale is like a fx spam on your screen and it's become frustring when you see people doing a meta without moving one second from their skyscale and getting reward just with doing dmg with them.

It's just not recently that this comportement is visible, but exemple this morning : a/x player(s)(530 mastery)  was spamming fireball from outside in inner map at meta. On Skywatch, a player (+-330 mastery) was spamming fireball the whole meta next to plateform only. Or Sometimes in public dragonstorm, where some player spam fireball from the crystal on boss only. And it's just a few exemple.

One idea is block fireball option in map who wasn't originally made for using the skill.

I understand that doing some meta again and again is boring. After thousands of x meta done myself, i'm bored sometimes too but if i join a meta map, i play it.

I'm, i think, at +- 250 meta runned in soto map so i can say that after doing these all run is boring, but you will not seeing me spamming fireball on meta phase specially the important phase. 
 

Edited February 1 by Valaraukar.7652

[Derktarlms.6213]

I'm sick of seeing people with skyscale flying while I do the damage, I fall while he taunts by throwing the fireballs and winning the events for free, I hope anet listens and limits or makes the reload even slower please.

[raykor.6723]

2. No participation for skyscale fireball damage.

That is my vote. At at absolute minimum, there should be no event participation granted for fireballs in core Tyria maps.

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, raykor.6723 said:

2. No participation for skyscale fireball damage.

That is my vote. At at absolute minimum, there should be no event participation granted for fireballs in core Tyria maps.

Then there should likewise be no participation granted in core Tyria maps for using elite builds.

[DeanBB.4268]

3 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Then there should likewise be no participation granted in core Tyria maps for using elite builds.

Or, following that logic, playing a revenant?

[frazazel.7501]

Have you ever noticed that if you attack a monster from a ledge above that it it can't get to, it will disengage and start rapidly regaining health? The game notices when you are attacking a monster in a cheesy way, and penalizes you for it. What if they just used that existing logic to not give you kill participation if you're attacking from a cheesy location, like the back of a skyscale hovering a mile above the battlefield?

[raykor.6723]

49 minutes ago, frazazel.7501 said:

Have you ever noticed that if you attack a monster from a ledge above that it it can't get to, it will disengage and start rapidly regaining health? The game notices when you are attacking a monster in a cheesy way, and penalizes you for it. What if they just used that existing logic to not give you kill participation if you're attacking from a cheesy location, like the back of a skyscale hovering a mile above the battlefield?

That is already how it works for fireballs. If you are the only player attacking a champ with fireballs, its health will rapidly reset and you will never get the kill. The problem the OP is addressing is that some people are on the ground where the champ can actually hit you back. You get a reward but you are at risk. Fireball leaches get the exact same reward but are never at risk. That's not how the risk/reward balance was meant to work.

[raykor.6723]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Then there should likewise be no participation granted in core Tyria maps for using elite builds.

The OP is clearly addressing the issue of fireball leachers getting full participation credit for an event where they are never at risk and where without others on the ground, they could never complete the event. You went off on quite a tangent but I suspect you know that and enjoy trolling.

[kharmin.7683]

13 minutes ago, raykor.6723 said:

The OP is clearly addressing the issue of fireball leachers getting full participation credit for an event where they are never at risk and where without others on the ground, they could never complete the event. You went off on quite a tangent but I suspect you know that and enjoy trolling.

No need to name call.  You took my post out of context in its reply to the point that was made about limiting the skyscale's fireball in core Tyria maps.  If we're going to do that, then why not limit the elite classes, too, since they are much more powerful than the skyscale.  Maybe you haven't seen/heard the complaints about how vets come in to core maps and wipe things out too quickly, and this was even before any mounts were released.

 

[ShadowKatt.6740]

1 hour ago, frazazel.7501 said:

Have you ever noticed that if you attack a monster from a ledge above that it it can't get to, it will disengage and start rapidly regaining health? The game notices when you are attacking a monster in a cheesy way, and penalizes you for it. What if they just used that existing logic to not give you kill participation if you're attacking from a cheesy location, like the back of a skyscale hovering a mile above the battlefield?

You have no idea how much that pisses me off. My main is a mesmer but my second nearest and dearest is thief and, as you probably guessed, Deadeye. I love nothing more than finding a perch with a good vantage of the land, taking a knee to extend my range, and then utilizing the full glory of the only other 1500 range weapon besides the ranger longbow.

Only for it to do nothing.

It's like they put in a sniper in the game and then said "Enjoy your club. It looks like a rifle, but it's only useful if they can hit you back". May as well just be handing out nerf bats.

[frazazel.7501]

I mean, they already penalize you for doing this, but you're right that if you can burst them down faster than they regen, then you can still get the rewards.

If you like 1500 range rifle attacks, you probably love the even crazier range of skyscale fireballs, available on any class, with built-in mobile hovering platforms to shoot from.

[Lucy.3728]

On 1/25/2024 at 12:22 AM, Healix.5819 said:

Back in 2012 when people first started complaining about the lack of contribution requirements, ArenaNet said they didn't want to discourage people from participating, including scenarios where someone would come across an event that was almost over.

Back in 2022, when I started my 3rd account, reaching an event that was almost over, or reaching an event that was just over when I arrived, was my daily experience due to my slowness of a new account (no mounts, no skills...) compared to veterans with way better mobility. Esp. on maps with daily events event. It wasn't fun but at least I sometimes barely managed that the event counted for little me too.

Thank you Anet.

(Unfortunately, back then, I had to level to 80 before I could do the first PoF mission to at least get the basic raptor and have better chances to reach places before everything was over)

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Humans will seek to maximize results with minimal resistance. I can't blame them. It's in our DNA. But for the game it would perhaps be better if participation is removed if a player uses SkyScale fireballs alone and nothing else.

[kharmin.7683]

4 minutes ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

Humans will seek to maximize results with minimal resistance. I can't blame them. It's in our DNA. But for the game it would perhaps be better if participation is removed if a player uses SkyScale fireballs alone and nothing else.

Why?  If the player is engaged with the content, skyscale or not, then participation should count.

Disclaimer: I don't do this and am not advocating that it is the way to do content; rather, I'm against anything that disallows legally using what the game provides.

[voltaicbore.8012]

2 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Why?  If the player is engaged with the content, skyscale or not, then participation should count.

Disclaimer: I don't do this and am not advocating that it is the way to do content; rather, I'm against anything that disallows legally using what the game provides.

I'm 100% on board with your disclaimer sentiment. To test fireball shortly after I got it, I went to Drizzlewood for the first time in ages and did the meta normally. Then, only on the first phase of the final fight, I tried fireballing to see what kind of damage it could do. To my pleasant surprise, it could easily crit for 10-15K per fireball since you can hit all three targetable points with one fireball.

The numbers were of course not very impressive, given the slow rate of fire and that you'll quickly run out of ammo even using Bond of Vigor for refills. So I dumped all the fireballs and headed down to the surface to offer more legitimate contribution. 

That being said, I can see a lot of new, inexperienced, or in general less combat-proficient players being outperformed by the fireball (thanks to the get-pushed-around mechanics all over that fight). As such, if someone who has trouble dealing with all that knockaround wants to float and fireball their way to a better performance, I think that should be a valid option. Not the option I would personally choose, and I'd always recommend learning to grow out of it, but I'd still rather have that option present.

[Sobx.1758]

On 2/2/2024 at 8:59 PM, kharmin.7683 said:

If we're going to do that, then why not limit the elite classes, too, since they are much more powerful than the skyscale.

If you re-read this thread, it's not really a complaint about "skyscale being too powerfull", it's about people hovering over mobs/events/bosses and leeching participation by barely contributing anything with a few fireballs while safely remaining beyond the reach of, well, anything. I'm not sure attempt to compare it to especs fits this thread or even comment chain, since you seem to be aiming at "it's too strong!" angle which isn't really the point made here.

Edited February 6 by Sobx.1758

[kharmin.7683]

53 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If you re-read this thread, it's not really a complaint about "skyscale being too powerfull", it's about people hovering over mobs/events/bosses and leeching participation by barely contributing anything with a few fireballs while safely remaining beyond the reach of, well, anything. I'm not sure attempt to compare it to especs fits this thread or even comment chain, since you seem to be aiming at "it's too strong!" angle which isn't really the point made here.

It was a response to the point made about removing Skyscales from core maps. 

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, kharmin.7683 said:

It was a response to the point made about removing Skyscales from core maps. 

Yes, based on what this thread is talking about, not based on it somehow being too strong. 

The person you responded to literally pointed that out to you as well by writing: "The OP is clearly addressing the issue of fireball leachers getting full participation credit for an event where they are never at risk and where without others on the ground, they could never complete the event."
I'm not the one missing the context here, you are. 😉

[Blude.6812]

On 1/25/2024 at 12:48 AM, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Skyscales are probably the worst addition to the game. Hands down. Period.

But, it's done. The genie is out of the bottle, and Anet has shown they are all about making the problem worse.

Nah, it's turtles. They should be restricted to EOD maps!

[ShadowKatt.6740]

6 hours ago, Blude.6812 said:

Nah, it's turtles. They should be restricted to EOD maps!

Turtles are an absolute nightmare in events, since those mortars do massive AOE damage and basically rob participation from the other players in the event. BUT as bad as that is, Skyscales are still worse, even moreso now that not only do they replace all other mounts, not only do they render entire maps as irrelevant, not only do they rob completion from other players that can't keep up, but now they do everything the turtles do without the need for a second player there. At least turtles still have to actually navigate maps, forcing you to learn where you're going, contend with terrain and wild enemies, and cooperate with other players if you want to decimate everything in sight.