when did boonball become THE meta for wvw?

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, Widebody.5071 said:

Also the other anwsers to the op's question does not address the question asked.

Which was [what changed in the last two years], not what happened ten years ago.

To be honest I think it's just spiteful behavior from some of the players that"s driving this phenomenon.

You should read the OP and thread title before busting people's chops over it.

"When" did boonballs become the meta for wvw.

OP hasn't played the game for 2 years.

😎

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

I've always thought that most of the heavier siege should have CC baked-in. If you get hit with a Colossal Explosive Shot from a trebuchet for example, that kitten should not only do lethal (or nearly so) AoE damage to you, it should also send you flying and leave you dazed. At minimum it should knockdown; just because you are stable doesn't mean the ground is immune to having craters blasted into it.

A trebuchet was one of (if not THE) most powerful weapons in existence in its day, but in this game you can just stand there, soak up a hit capable of reducing massive stone walls to rubble and not even flinch a little.

That's just wrong.

Siege, was/is over-nerfed agree. Could go on for paragraphs here but will not since it off topic to this thread.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

3 hours ago, Widebody.5071 said:

Also the other anwsers to the op's question does not address the question asked.

Which was [what changed in the last two years], not what happened ten years ago.

To be honest I think it's just spiteful behavior from some of the players that"s driving this phenomenon.

It just sounds more like you just started playing and have been introduced to the first time to standard zerg strategy and bag farming. There’s nothing new about this particular behavior of people getting mowed over by a reverse push.

the first response made to this topic is probably the most accurate depiction of gw2 WvW boonball history. Boons back in the day worked somewhat differently and were stronger than they are now. I was a noob like most others back then so that’s as far as my knowledge goes. It slowly just evolved over time where more boons and more defenses were added into the game. But 10+ target cap abilities and super strong interactions like the epidemic meta existed that made boon balls less significant because zergs were easier to kill with less bigger group sizes. 15 man guilds and 10 man super players would consistently roll over 80 man blobs in those days and those were pretty good days for the scene IMO. Carpet Bomb Meta was kinda crazy but at least the game could be shifted by a small number of good players.

It only started getting bad post 2020 when everything  got nerfed and when 10+ target cap skills were getting phased out of the game. Small guild groups could no longer do those things since individual contribution to group dynamics diminished and numbers started mattering more. When numbers mattered more, even fights in open field we’re decided by spikes which were led by bubbles (had to strip away boons so you could cc and immobilize people so that they don’t dodge the spike.) 

the games has always been decided by spikes in even fights, but I’m just saying that spikes mattered at that point in time more than just sheer single player contribution like it us-to be. 
 

when bubble was nerfed that was pretty much it… wkeying and melle balls sorta took over cause that’s kinda all there is left to do. Fights are more or less decided by numbers first and foremost, good positioning (like not standing in the choke lol) rezing teammates (so you don’t rally bot) and standing on downstates so they get cleaved out. Those are all usual strats since forever it’s just that is what matters now in determine fight outcome IMO. Boons are just always up as a consequence of people pressing their buttons…nobody even really cares that hard today about their boon bars like they usto since real condi conversion no longer exists. I mean when was the last time you were feared? Do people still empower anymore?

Lol man I remember people 5 years ago were complaining about the enormous amount of CC (myself included) and that firebrand was mandatory to play the game. it’s still mandatory but ehh…not really you can get away with COMing on a Druid or even some rando DPS spec nowadays. 

Edited February 20 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[hugeboss.5432]

I think almost everyone got this wrong and blame "boonballs", but it's actually what i refer to as the "wetnoodle meta" that's the problem.

We should accept that boons are player triggered buffs that is a fun dynamic feature for adding spice to combat. But the real problem is when you have a zerg that's already tanky geared (not metabattle lol) & in tight formation (they become almost unkillable). Then when those 50 wetnoodles slam down on full glass players it will easily deal enough dmg to kill them, almost risk free (this isn't good competitive gaming, it's not about skill, it's about the number of wetnoodles vs glassy pve geared players). There are currently very few options to counter this strategy (except with another full tank zerg, or dodge them completely and swap maps like alot of glass guilds do). Power & Ferocity have been nerfed several times over since launch, and the indirect effect from that is that tanky stats have become even more powerful (they indirectly become more powerful every time they nerf dmg stats, there's a "stat-counterstat" balance problem).

+ Need to make much larger capture rings (or even several spaced out rings) around lords, so tight heavy tank blobs need to use much more movement & dps to capture stuff, or even split up in order to capture stuff.

+ Increase the passive ARMOR DEFENSE RATING on armors (prolly somewhere like 200-500 more). This will have the percieved effect of "nerfing" the already full tanky geared the most, (it loses efficiency the more you stack) thereby making glass dps players more viable in large scale combat without instantly melting to "Wetnoodles meta"). *** This should of been done ages ago! *** And we don't even have to rebalance any dmg, just tweak the armor defense rating to find that sweet spot so dps & tanks become useful for their different jobs.

*** In the years as top winning server for almost a decade, those of us that made the team BG builds never considered full BERSERKER gear a viable option for wvw, except for messing about 😄

[Sleepwalker.1398]

I think this was from before HoT. My first run in when i started WvW was against a NA guild from Crystal Desert call [VII], very strong.

Then there were class specific boon unique to classes but then later down the track, Anet started handing them out like pancakes.

eg. Chrono Alac, had to use wells, shatter rotations. Now my Renegade presses just 1 button F4 and 5 ppl have alac or a tempest traited and overloads and 5 ppl have alac.

[Widebody.5071]

2 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

You should read the OP and thread title before busting people's chops over it.

"When" did boonballs become the meta for wvw.

OP hasn't played the game for 2 years.

😎

Thanks for supporting my position and agreeing to the point I made. \

You are wholly appreciated. 🙏

[Teknomancer.4895]

4 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Siege, was/is over-nerfed agree. Could go on for paragraphs here but will not since it off topic to this thread.

Make a new thread then, I'd like to see a discussion about it. I haz ideas. 😁

[Aeolus.3615]

11 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Make a new thread then, I'd like to see a discussion about it. I haz ideas. 😁

forget it, since touch zergs balls Anet would rather remover siege.

[Riba.3271]

Well, pure boonball that has no ranged counter, became a thing around time they made heal scrappers overpowered.

Since then groups have been having so much cleanse, heals and superspeed that pulsing fields can't keep up. Scrapper got even replaced with holosmith that has better superspeed upkeep with no target cap and heal vindis that can heal more reliably without having to spam 1.

Ofc we had some pretty heavy melee metas like HoT with cele reapers, heal tempests and dwarf elite heralds, but herald hammer spikes and meteor showering eles were still capable of downing some people and stop bigger engages: superspeed and heals were still limited back then.

Funnily you can also see how meta has changed tighter and tighter by looking at the range of skills:

Healers Tempest (Shouts/Auras: 600 heal/buff radius) -> Scrapper (Gyros: 360 heal/buff radius) -> Vindicator (Dodge: 300 radius)

Main Stab Guardian (Shouts/Virtues: 600 support radius) -> Firebrand (Mantras: 180 support radius)

DPS Ele/Herald (1200 range damage) -> Scourge/Reaper/DH (600-900 range damage) -> Holosmith/Berserker/Vindi (Melee damage)

 

Of course there were some staff thieves, melee berserkers and DPS scrappers in some longer range metas, but those weren't really ran in large amounts.

Edited February 21 by Riba.3271

[Dawdler.8521]

10 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

forget it, since touch zergs balls Anet would rather remover siege.

Please dont touch the zerg balls.

[Triptaminas.4789]

On 2/20/2024 at 10:13 PM, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

It just sounds more like you just started playing and have been introduced to the first time to standard zerg strategy and bag farming. There’s nothing new about this particular behavior of people getting mowed over by a reverse push.

the first response made to this topic is probably the most accurate depiction of gw2 WvW boonball history. Boons back in the day worked somewhat differently and were stronger than they are now. I was a noob like most others back then so that’s as far as my knowledge goes. It slowly just evolved over time where more boons and more defenses were added into the game. But 10+ target cap abilities and super strong interactions like the epidemic meta existed that made boon balls less significant because zergs were easier to kill with less bigger group sizes. 15 man guilds and 10 man super players would consistently roll over 80 man blobs in those days and those were pretty good days for the scene IMO. Carpet Bomb Meta was kinda crazy but at least the game could be shifted by a small number of good players.

It only started getting bad post 2020 when everything  got nerfed and when 10+ target cap skills were getting phased out of the game. Small guild groups could no longer do those things since individual contribution to group dynamics diminished and numbers started mattering more. When numbers mattered more, even fights in open field we’re decided by spikes which were led by bubbles (had to strip away boons so you could cc and immobilize people so that they don’t dodge the spike.) 

the games has always been decided by spikes in even fights, but I’m just saying that spikes mattered at that point in time more than just sheer single player contribution like it us-to be. 
 

when bubble was nerfed that was pretty much it… wkeying and melle balls sorta took over cause that’s kinda all there is left to do. Fights are more or less decided by numbers first and foremost, good positioning (like not standing in the choke lol) rezing teammates (so you don’t rally bot) and standing on downstates so they get cleaved out. Those are all usual strats since forever it’s just that is what matters now in determine fight outcome IMO. Boons are just always up as a consequence of people pressing their buttons…nobody even really cares that hard today about their boon bars like they usto since real condi conversion no longer exists. I mean when was the last time you were feared? Do people still empower anymore?

Lol man I remember people 5 years ago were complaining about the enormous amount of CC (myself included) and that firebrand was mandatory to play the game. it’s still mandatory but ehh…not really you can get away with COMing on a Druid or even some rando DPS spec nowadays. 

Sad state of affairs 😞

[Seraph Dawnbreaker.6214]

WvW = team playing.
And boon ball = the meta of team playing, as, it's a group where everyone has to bring something and make efforts for the blob to be viable.

So, stop complaining about it, and learn to deal with it.

IMO the only ones whining about it are those who can't or "don't want to make the effort" to participate actively in a group strategy.
Then, please go find some PvE/PvP activities that fit your needs, or go roaming AND assume this is a different playstyle that is not meant to, and often unable to, sustain against a boon ball.

I made some choices about guild and server that makes it near impossible for me to play in meta zerg most of the time. Instead of complaining, I just tried to develop strategies to avoid direct confrontation  with zerg, and learned to adapt my  ambitions to the context when outnumbered.
I'm pretty much stuck in this context waiting for ANET to get WvW restructuring right, and it's more about envy than hate toward those who can set up a pretty decent coordinated group, with both the number of players and the skills to match. Also, the fun in vocal that often goes with it.

[Seraph Dawnbreaker.6214]

PS: maybe if ANET would stop nerfing boonstrip and boon corruption, the roamers would get a chance to to something against boonball IF the numbers are close.
But with the next balance patch, it seems to take the opposite direction *looking at mesmer null field nerf*

[Triptaminas.4789]

10 minutes ago, Seraph Dawnbreaker.6214 said:

WvW = team playing.
And boon ball = the meta of team playing, as, it's a group where everyone has to bring something and make efforts for the blob to be viable.

So, stop complaining about it, and learn to deal with it.

IMO the only ones whining about it are those who can't or "don't want to make the effort" to participate actively in a group strategy.
Then, please go find some PvE/PvP activities that fit your needs, or go roaming AND assume this is a different playstyle that is not meant to, and often unable to, sustain against a boon ball.

I made some choices about guild and server that makes it near impossible for me to play in meta zerg most of the time. Instead of complaining, I just tried to develop strategies to avoid direct confrontation  with zerg, and learned to adapt my  ambitions to the context when outnumbered.
I'm pretty much stuck in this context waiting for ANET to get WvW restructuring right, and it's more about envy than hate toward those who can set up a pretty decent coordinated group, with both the number of players and the skills to match. Also, the fun in vocal that often goes with it.

Read this blob babby:

On 2/20/2024 at 10:13 PM, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

It just sounds more like you just started playing and have been introduced to the first time to standard zerg strategy and bag farming. There’s nothing new about this particular behavior of people getting mowed over by a reverse push.

the first response made to this topic is probably the most accurate depiction of gw2 WvW boonball history. Boons back in the day worked somewhat differently and were stronger than they are now. I was a noob like most others back then so that’s as far as my knowledge goes. It slowly just evolved over time where more boons and more defenses were added into the game. But 10+ target cap abilities and super strong interactions like the epidemic meta existed that made boon balls less significant because zergs were easier to kill with less bigger group sizes. 15 man guilds and 10 man super players would consistently roll over 80 man blobs in those days and those were pretty good days for the scene IMO. Carpet Bomb Meta was kinda crazy but at least the game could be shifted by a small number of good players.

It only started getting bad post 2020 when everything  got nerfed and when 10+ target cap skills were getting phased out of the game. Small guild groups could no longer do those things since individual contribution to group dynamics diminished and numbers started mattering more. When numbers mattered more, even fights in open field we’re decided by spikes which were led by bubbles (had to strip away boons so you could cc and immobilize people so that they don’t dodge the spike.) 

the games has always been decided by spikes in even fights, but I’m just saying that spikes mattered at that point in time more than just sheer single player contribution like it us-to be. 
 

when bubble was nerfed that was pretty much it… wkeying and melle balls sorta took over cause that’s kinda all there is left to do. Fights are more or less decided by numbers first and foremost, good positioning (like not standing in the choke lol) rezing teammates (so you don’t rally bot) and standing on downstates so they get cleaved out. Those are all usual strats since forever it’s just that is what matters now in determine fight outcome IMO. Boons are just always up as a consequence of people pressing their buttons…nobody even really cares that hard today about their boon bars like they usto since real condi conversion no longer exists. I mean when was the last time you were feared? Do people still empower anymore?

Lol man I remember people 5 years ago were complaining about the enormous amount of CC (myself included) and that firebrand was mandatory to play the game. it’s still mandatory but ehh…not really you can get away with COMing on a Druid or even some rando DPS spec nowadays. 

WvW degrading, game becomes more generic in combat aspect each update, wvw loses the hook it had.

[Dawdler.8521]

4 hours ago, Seraph Dawnbreaker.6214 said:

And boon ball = the meta of team playing, as, it's a group where everyone has to bring something and make efforts for the blob to be viable.

Just like riding on a rollercoaster, team play!

[Dadnir.5038]

To strictly answer the title of the thread, we have boon balls in WvW since 2012. Guilds specialized in WvW have always been exploiting boons as much as they could.

[RaveOnYou.2819]

problem is boons are too powerfull, either the defensive ones or offensive ones. as long as boons stay that much powerfull the meta will always be stacking and pumping boons. its not just wvws problem, why pve of gw2 seems stale and boring is stacking and keeping boons. its fundemental problem of gw2.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

22 hours ago, Seraph Dawnbreaker.6214 said:

Also, the fun in vocal that often goes with it.

"Stack you <insert explicative here>! STACK!"

"Hey, Ma! Can we get some meatloaf?!"

"Hey, Ma! The meatloaf! We want it now! The meatloaf!"

"Dude died in a gliding accident. What an idiot! Ha ha. "A-a-ah! I'm gliding, commander! Take a good picture! I'm dead!" What a freak!"

(nerfing disco scourge and winds led to this)

[Chaba.5410]

On 2/22/2024 at 9:41 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

To strictly answer the title of the thread, we have boon balls in WvW since 2012. Guilds specialized in WvW have always been exploiting boons as much as they could.

The responses on threads like this have me convinced that the difference between now and then is actually target caps and prioritization.  It's like people forget (or never knew) that the original meta in WvW was a boonball consisting also of tanky gear and a stability boon that was next to impossible to strip/corrupt.

[XenesisII.1540]

Yeah boon balls today are totally the same as 10 years ago, y'all need to stop complaining, get in the ball or get out to another game.

[Dadnir.5038]

46 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

The responses on threads like this have me convinced that the difference between now and then is actually target caps and prioritization.  It's like people forget (or never knew) that the original meta in WvW was a boonball consisting also of tanky gear and a stability boon that was next to impossible to strip/corrupt.

Indeed, that said, I'd add 3 other things to these differences:

• The ease to provide boons (the vanilla game relied a lot on combos for boons)
• The "new" boons (quickness, alacrity, resistance and resolution)
• The lost boon: Retaliation (The fighting experience when facing a boon ball with retaliation was a lot worse than when facing a boon ball without).

[Aeolus.3615]

20 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Yeah boon balls today are totally the same as 10 years ago, y'all need to stop complaining, get in the ball or get out to another game.

Helldivers 2 is awesome!

just saying!

[TheGrimm.5624]

20 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Helldivers 2 is awesome!

just saying!

HD2 is a lot of fun. Training Manual: If in doubt of your survival, yell for Democracy! and charge in! Kind of already use that when a boon ball is incoming.

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Yeah boon balls today are totally the same as 10 years ago, y'all need to stop complaining, get in the ball or get out to another game.

No one said they're the same.  The fact that you called the ones of 10 years ago also "boon balls" just proves the point that it's a misnomer for the differences.  Boons and balling up have been in the game since launch.  The difference lies in the changes over the years to certain combat mechanics, which you wouldn't arrive at if you just mislead by calling them "boonballs", as if players are supposed to not use boons and group up ever.  It's not even a balance issue over boons vs. strips given that access to strips was also pretty low at launch, lower than I'd say even now.  You couldn't use CC to rid someone of their stability either.  And yet back then you could do more damage to a larger number of players than you can now because there weren't target caps like there are today.  The combat balance has less disparity.  You can't 5v15 too well anymore and it's not because of boons, but because you can't hit 15 players, only 5.

Edited February 23 by Chaba.5410

[XenesisII.1540]

Front line Back line Picks never existed! Boon balls from day one! stop complaining and get in the ball or in another game!