Siege Disabler Change

[CutesySylveon.8290]

Please, for the love of all that is holy, revert this change. It was already near impossible to get a disable off on groups chaining bubbles, but now it's not even an option anymore? Now I have to just sit and watch the shield generators keep bubbles on their siege forever with enemies not even bothering to protect the Gens? Doing extra damage to siege doesn't matter if they're being protected by bubbles that give stability and block everything including Arrow Carts.

You already got rid of structure invuln, now without disables, how am I supposed to give my server a chance to respond to a blob showing up to anything that doesn't have 2 walls to get through? Please, revert this change; nobody asked for it. 

Edited March 20 by CutesySylveon.8290

[alteriel valie.4751]

Last night 30 enemies came at dawns, i used the disabler on 4 catas and only thing i managed to do until our squad (they were in combat from a bay fight) come, was to make wall take less damage for 20 secs!
When our squad came, enemies were already in lord room! 
All i see is, they managed to make ppt faster now!

Edited March 20 by alteriel valie.4751

[Codename T.2847]

3 hours ago, alteriel valie.4751 said:

Last night 30 enemies came at dawns, i used the disabler on 4 catas and only thing i managed to do until our squad (they were in combat from a bay fight) come, was to make wall take less damage for 20 secs!
When our squad came, enemies were already in lord room! 
All i see is, they managed to make ppt faster now!

I think that's exactly what they want.. resistance is futile

[Silinsar.6298]

1 hour ago, Codename T.2847 said:

I think that's exactly what they want.. resistance is futile

Instead of borg cubes we got boon balls.

[LordHT.8297]

In fact, I think this change was a buff to defense and kind of fixes the mistake they made wile ago by buffing the hp of some sieges.
Now with the disable debuff you can kill the enemy sieges very quickly, so instead of just delaying them, now you can simply kill their sieges very easily. If you combine the disable with a ballista, cannon, mortar or whatever, you can wipe the enemy's sieges very quickly. But of course, this requires some coordination and that's why I think it's not so overpowering.

[XenesisII.1540]

40 minutes ago, LordHT.8297 said:

In fact, I think this change was a buff to defense and kind of fixes the mistake they made wile ago by buffing the hp of some sieges.
Now with the disable debuff you can kill the enemy sieges very quickly, so instead of just delaying them, now you can simply kill their sieges very easily. If you combine the disable with a ballista, cannon, mortar or whatever, you can wipe the enemy's sieges very quickly. But of course, this requires some coordination and that's why I think it's not so overpowering.

The only siege that had hp increased was rams, which was intentional, not a mistake.

If they thought it was a mistake it would have been easier to adjust the hp again instead.

Most players will attempt to clear siege first before or while they are sieging, because for one, defenders are usually not there yet, and two most of the dangerous ones like cannons and mortars can be cleared quickly before they can even be used. Only the lazy/dumb commanders, or ones who don't care as they are just there to pull a fight wouldn't destroy the counter siege. So even with the vulnerability now built it, it's practically useless to defenders.

Disablers are only useful against small numbers, on cata's that are up against a wall, very rarely though as they have their own shields, and if not, usually a commander will build a shield gen if they know they will be countered with long range that they cannot clear, or expect heavy aoes. The same goes for rams. There's already a large amount of counters to disablers with the amount of shields/reflects in the game. Even with stealth your chances for a successful disabler was low if the players on catas are not idiots, paid attention to the enemy movements, and somewhat rotated shields properly.

The biggest part of this nerf allows attacking siege to still do damage, they don't want anything stopped at a stand still for a period of time or repelled too early, this nerf wasn't done for the benefit of the defenders, it was a nerf to them, and done with a benefit for attackers especially large groups, who can just build one shield gen to negate practically all counters. Same thing was done for the invul tactivator as a nerf to defense.

No one in these forums asked for this change. Ask yourself where they are getting the idea to even make that change.

Edited March 21 by XenesisII.1540

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, LordHT.8297 said:

In fact, I think this change was a buff to defense and kind of fixes the mistake they made wile ago by buffing the hp of some sieges.
Now with the disable debuff you can kill the enemy sieges very quickly, so instead of just delaying them, now you can simply kill their sieges very easily. If you combine the disable with a ballista, cannon, mortar or whatever, you can wipe the enemy's sieges very quickly. But of course, this requires some coordination and that's why I think it's not so overpowering.

I think this change was to increase offense. Siege disablers were rarely used in offense even when they should have been used on oil and cannon. Anet showed they were concerned with gate issues by over-buffing ram HP. So they double downed on gates by converting disablers to disruptors. I disagree, this is where they are looking to buff offense more and remove defense options. 

[Gop.8713]

I agree it was meant as a buff for attackers, and while I don't like it, I disagree that no one asked for it. This is very much what players want, to log on, hook up with their numberless horde and roll around the map facing no resistance of any kind. Don't blame the devs for giving the ppls what they want . . .

[Coldtart.4785]

Shield gens should probably be turned into something like mortars that have fixed locations in forts since there's not much justification for open field gens when wall hp is the only real obstacle.

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, Gop.8713 said:

I agree it was meant as a buff for attackers, and while I don't like it, I disagree that no one asked for it. This is very much what players want, to log on, hook up with their numberless horde and roll around the map facing no resistance of any kind. Don't blame the devs for giving the ppls what they want . . .

I don't remember ever seeing anyone ask for a siege disabler nerf in game or in the forums. So who did they get the request from?

I will always blame the devs, they have the final say on all changes to the game.

Their changes to balance in practically every part of the game that requires it, have been very lopsided biased for the past few years, they're not bringing balance to wvw, they're destroying it.

Edited March 21 by XenesisII.1540

[Tsargrad.6723]

>Please, revert this change; nobody asked for it!< Yeah, exactly what I was thinking when I read the Patch-Notes.😅

[Cogadh.1845]

If anyone was in any doubt before, the message is now loud and clear from the wvw team. Get in the boonball or get out of wvw.

[misterman.1530]

21 hours ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Please, for the love of all that is holy, revert this change. It was already near impossible to get a disable off on groups chaining bubbles, but now it's not even an option anymore? Now I have to just sit and watch the shield generators keep bubbles on their siege forever with enemies not even bothering to protect the Gens? Doing extra damage to siege doesn't matter if they're being protected by bubbles that give stability and block everything including Arrow Carts.

You already got rid of structure invuln, now without disables, how am I supposed to give my server a chance to respond to a blob showing up to anything that doesn't have 2 walls to get through? Please, revert this change; nobody asked for it. 

Soon they will change walls and gates so they are made out of paper. You'll be able to break through them with a loud fart.

[Graymatter.4723]

My server is no longer defending things if there isn't an organized group online. There isn't a point. They are just going around back capping stuff. It used to be a lot of fun holding out against a bigger group but now it's impossible. You can't stop them from getting in and once they are in it's just a rolling boon ball.

[Custodio.6134]

Tbh: as someone that only had a single guild raid since the change, I at least can say that against small guilds, this has been absolutely a buff for defense. If you have limited supply, getting your siege destroyed massively hurts more now. Before the change you would just sit out the disabler and continue. Now it's very likely to run out of supply as attacker, forcing you to retreat. 

And while this may not prevent larger groups from just re-building siege, I definitely see this as a buff for the defenders. Offensive supply gets drained faster this way.

Ofc this is assuming that the defenders actively go after the siege once "disabled". 

[Dawdler.8521]

5 minutes ago, Custodio.6134 said:

Tbh: as someone that only had a single guild raid since the change, I at least can say that against small guilds, this has been absolutely a buff for defense. If you have limited supply, getting your siege destroyed massively hurts more now. Before the change you would just sit out the disabler and continue. Now it's very likely to run out of supply as attacker, forcing you to retreat. 

And while this may not prevent larger groups from just re-building siege, I definitely see this as a buff for the defenders. Offensive supply gets drained faster this way.

Ofc this is assuming that the defenders actively go after the siege once "disabled". 

TL;DR let’s make a change that completely kittens over small scale sieges while having little to no impact for the boonball.

[Graymatter.4723]

5 minutes ago, Custodio.6134 said:

Tbh: as someone that only had a single guild raid since the change, I at least can say that against small guilds, this has been absolutely a buff for defense. If you have limited supply, getting your siege destroyed massively hurts more now. Before the change you would just sit out the disabler and continue. Now it's very likely to run out of supply as attacker, forcing you to retreat. 

And while this may not prevent larger groups from just re-building siege, I definitely see this as a buff for the defenders. Offensive supply gets drained faster this way.

Ofc this is assuming that the defenders actively go after the siege once "disabled". 

The problem is that you can't damage the siege with a boon ball attacking. If you stand on the wall they will pull you off. The point of the siege disabler is to buy time so more people can arrive. Now the boon ball will be inside by the time support arrives and at that point, it's too late because you can't pick apart the boon ball if you don't at the very least have the same number of people as them.

[VictorLeal.4102]

I agree with ArenaNet, the change was good for Indomir and friendos to enter the keep faster without resistance and farm the noobs!!! GET BETTER NOOBS, WE NEED FARM ULTIMATE DOMINATOR X

Edited March 21 by VictorLeal.4102

[cyberzombie.7348]

All I wanna know is who even asked for this change? 

[Zepoolpe.9217]

4 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I don't remember ever seeing anyone ask for a siege disabler nerf in game or in the forums. So who did they get the request from?

Anet is perfectly able to do stupid things on their own: they've been proving it at each patch these days.

[felincyriac.5981]

this change is the epitome of "who asked?"

[CutesySylveon.8290]

5 hours ago, Custodio.6134 said:

Tbh: as someone that only had a single guild raid since the change, I at least can say that against small guilds, this has been absolutely a buff for defense. If you have limited supply, getting your siege destroyed massively hurts more now. Before the change you would just sit out the disabler and continue. Now it's very likely to run out of supply as attacker, forcing you to retreat. 

And while this may not prevent larger groups from just re-building siege, I definitely see this as a buff for the defenders. Offensive supply gets drained faster this way.

Ofc this is assuming that the defenders actively go after the siege once "disabled". 

The moment those groups start using alacrity to chain Shield Gen bubbles, you're screwed. Even Arrow Carts can't get through the bubbles, so what siege will be of use? Ballistas will only be possible if the enemy group misplaces their shield gens to not be blocked by the bubbles as they protect siege in LoS of the structure.

At least before you could try to disable the Shield Gens to let your own siege damage the attackers, but without the ability to disable, you can do quite literally nothing beyond throwing yourself at the enemy, which will end as predictably as you'd imagine if you aren't running close to equal numbers.

Small groups aren't what anyone is concerned with when the biggest gripe, by far, is boonblobs rolling up with little to no means of stopping them, and this change took away yet another tool to aid against them.

[Zok.4956]

17 hours ago, Silinsar.6298 said:

Instead of borg cubes we got boon balls.

That's still a little better than borg balls. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

Granted we have limited replies here, but would it have been better if it retained its old function and added the damage increase versus just remove the disable? What is funny  think this ties into the whole ram changes where they keep trying to buff ram usage. if we see a short range treb nerf then it ties in. Which don't get me wrong all for WvW development and additions versus removals but a roadmap on other changes outside of the WR wouldn't be a bad thing. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

7 hours ago, cyberzombie.7348 said:

All I wanna know is who even asked for this change? 

Trash blob  guilds that can't even cycle like a pair  ventari of bubbles and/or  guardian domes/blocks. This is why I think most people that play FB need to get off my class.

And for some reason there's quite a few. That's why they need to hide behind 15-20 instant res skills.

Edited March 21 by ArchonWing.9480