Upcoming Wintersday Balance Update

[Carighan.6758]

@Accelerator.3598 said:Please for the love of god, split this "Balance Update" into PvE and PvP. I know the condi burst is just ridiculous in PvP but don't balance PvE around PvP again. For the part that's targeted at PvE content, the main issue here is not condi builds being overwhelmingly strong, but power builds being underwhelmingly weak and this should be where you start to balance, by adding power to weak builds and not by nerfing the in comparison stronger builds to the ground.

But they specifically address this. Overall condi output stays the same, it just ramps up less quickly:

• In PvP and WvW, this is an intended nerf to condi output.
• In open-world and low-FotM PvE, this makes a difference but a trivial one as things would die just from the power damage component of a condi spec, easily.
• For Raids and high-end FotM, the difference will be marginal as things live long enough.

That's kinda it. There's no problem in PvE from this, other than maybe wanting the odd power spec char if all you do with it is grind open world zones.

@Accelerator.3598 said:the main issue here is not condi builds being overwhelmingly strong, but power builds being underwhelmingly weak

Exactly not. Power builds are plenty strong. Overall, damage is far far far faaaaaar too high. So nerfing is the right way to go, things live horribly briefly and PvE is far too easy as a result, with nothing truly threatening a player. Compare pre-HoT damage output which was much healthier for the PvE game.

[Rodzynald.5897]

@SloRules.3560 said:I have to agree with people that said that the amount of different conditions that are being puked out has to adressed too. Some classes just have to many (ehm necro).

Also please take a look at hammer rev vs staff ele. Hammer rev just shouldn't be able to do as much damage as ele, when they are both full zerk, because it's a whole lot more survivable.

Warrior elite and enchantment collapse need to be adressed a bit, they are just to powerfull together. I like warrior rips a whole lot more than necro corrupts, but not if they are all packed in 1 skill.

Firebrand support is too much, no other class can compete to it, unless you want to rely on special mechanics, like jalis elite. Even ele auras aren't enough to warant using it over guardian.(guardian = stab, resistane, healing, condi cleanse, ... you just can't have all of that together)

First of all, Firebrand needs a decent team that knows how to fight so it is worth for them to keep the team alive. Second, Firebrand is strong because it has to be strong due to how many condis and power damage can be done in a short duration of time. Thirdly, Firebrand has no mobility or gimmicky shenanigans to keep it alive, it's all about how you react and what skills you use, so if you burst it well, it will go down and you are sure it won't do something weird that will keep it alive like random invulnerability or something. They won't go invisible or run away like a druid, or kite around like good ol' ele.

[roamzero.9486]

From a pvp standpoint I hope they take into consideration condi removal as well. It wouldn't be very satisfying to ramp up your conditions only to have them cleared. In fact, apart from playing Scourge and Mirage, bursting your conditions in between your opponent's removals is the only way to be effective. That said though the main classes that can take condi removal to a ridiculous degree are Inspiration Mirages/Guardians/Druids and maybe Eles.

[Cynz.9437]

@roamzero.9486 said:From a pvp standpoint I hope they take into consideration condi removal as well. It wouldn't be very satisfying to ramp up your conditions only to have them cleared. In fact, apart from playing Scourge and Mirage, bursting your conditions in between your opponent's removals is the only way to be effective. That said though the main classes that can take condi removal to a ridiculous degree are Inspiration Mirages/Guardians/Druids and maybe Eles.

You do know that nearly everyone is running what some call "condi cleanse" builds because of amount of condis spam in pvp/wvw. This is a symptom, not cause really.For example right now, on core SA thief i run signet of agility because of condi cleanse when i would rather run inf. signet but i can't afford it due to condi spam. Same applies to runes/sigils we pick. Would there be less condi spam, some would probably run other options instead of only option atm: bring as much condi cleanse as possible.

Atm, condis are bigger threat (to me at least) than anything else in game.

[Zunki.3916]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Umbramare.9156 said:How to kill condi classes in PvE 101.

Way to over-react. It completely depends on what they do to certain skills given the example above is actually a net gain in damage.

Actually it is a real problem for PvE where bursts have been bad before for condi and become even worse now. It's sad that my already offmeta-pve-build gets nerfed even more without any content specific reason.

[Umbramare.9156]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Umbramare.9156 said:How to kill condi classes in PvE 101.

4 burns for 5s will do the same damage as 2 burns for 10s and once fully into a rotation the dps numbers shouldn’t change too much. The real question is just how long of a ramp up time we are talking about for PvE but considering most of the highest dps builds are currently condition builds which have less stringent requirements for hitting the numbers (no scholar) then there needs to be a shift to make power worth running.

???If you'd play with any halfdecent people you'd know that power gets favored if your groupdps isnt complete garbage.

[Titan.3472]

We REALLY need like REALLY for REAL need and gave multiple FEEDBACKS over YEARS (FoT = Feedbacks over Times xD) that we NEEEEEEEED a stat to reduce condition damages intensity for REAL. (like toughness for power)In every games I played in the past every UNRESISTED damages types were abused (GW2 is no different regarding unresisted condition damages type) and always ended being fix removing their unresisted status, still Anet refuses to actknowledge that.90% of the balance issues would be fix IF we are given a stat reducing conditions intensisty (like vitality in my opinion is the best choice) 1% conditions damage reduction per X vitality.

[Dib.4612]

I hope you’re also considering the passive vuln application of Storm Spirit.

Because people will literally just bring that when you remove passive vuln application from traits etc.

[snh.7091]

@coro.3176 said:Condi burst has become overwhelming not only in # of stacks, but also in # of conditions applied at once. For an example, look no further than scourge condi bomb:

That's 8 condi applied more or less instantly with no obvious tell to dodge. There's no real way to avoid this other than "don't ever be close to a scourge".

that is disgusting and needed to be addressed from the beginning. I can't fathom how anyone thought this was OK.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@hitman.6804 said:Just a Question, Are you guys doing anything to Deadeye?

I dont think there is much too do with deadeye

[SolitaryPillarist.5740]

What I see, Anet announces a balance patch targeting Condi to bring it "in line" with "power" dps. What I read between the lines, Anet nerfing something good across the board because 1 group of players is mad because a play style can beat them. It was exactly the same when HoT dropped. They will adjust the skills as they see necessary. Stop whining about it guys, I for one am thankful to Anet for even telling us this is coming. I have been staying away from most of the new builds because I knew the Condi Nerf was coming shortly after the PoF release. PvP and WvW people have been whining since HoT about Condi seems to me they will finally get their way. I wish others would just see the viability of multiple build style's instead of maligning the one they choose not to take.

[EthanLightheart.9168]

If you do this you have to remove resistance and also tweak a lot of condi cleanse. Especially firebrand and a lot other skills need to remove alot less condis. We're punished enough to build up damage. Direct damage is so cheap and can't be prevented while condi can just get cleansed away too easily.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Sarrs.4831 said:

@Umbramare.9156 said:How to kill condi classes in PvE 101.

Honestly this is something that's needed.

Condition classes

should

do more damage but there should be more ramp and time involved in doing that damage. That's the whole point of a DOT class.Power classes buy their instant damage by doing less damage overall.

I've never played a game where non-dot specs are supposed to do less DPS than DOT specs just because of "ramp up time". I guess anet has confused players into thinking that DOT specs should do more DPS because of their backwards design philosophy.

Both power and DOTS(conditions) should do equal DPS.

[Bakeneko.5826]

@SolitaryPillarist.5740 said:What I see, Anet announces a balance patch targeting Condi to bring it "in line" with "power" dps. What I read between the lines, Anet nerfing something good across the board because 1 group of players is mad because a play style can beat them. It was exactly the same when HoT dropped. They will adjust the skills as they see necessary. Stop whining about it guys, I for one am thankful to Anet for even telling us this is coming. I have been staying away from most of the new builds because I knew the Condi Nerf was coming shortly after the PoF release. PvP and WvW people have been whining since HoT about Condi seems to me they will finally get their way. I wish others would just see the viability of multiple build style's instead of maligning the one they choose not to take.

Stop whining about condi bursting just as hard as pure power zerker? Are you serious? You are saying DoT that can pulse for more from the get-go than pure zerker is ok, when prue power build can just do one burst and be it, where condi would keep pulsing?WvW were not "whining". Have you even been in WvW? ZvZ fights starts by getting every possible condi in 2 seconds ant 4-20 stacks. If player has frontline builder he is ok, if he is flanker/assassins/backliner he gets insta destroyed. No amount of dodges will help. Condi is OP in PvE, WvW and PvP. It needs nerfing badly.

[Ace Woodlink.1863]

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

• e.g. Mutilate Defenses: This trait has been reworked and renamed to "Expose Defenses". This trait now causes your first attack when entering combat to inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds. This ability refreshes whenever you use an elite skill.I cannot stress enough how borderline-useless this would make Mutilate Defenses.

[LUST.2305]

I still think a lot of dealing-with-Condi problems in PvP/WvW can be solved just by updating Condi Cleanses to 2017/2018. They all are based on 2012 levels where there was very little condi application.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Zenith.7301 said:Your problem isn't that condi is too strong in PvE, it's that you've failed to make any power specs outside guardian, ele, and engineer viable at all.

Power ranger, power necro/reaper, power mesmer, power warrior, power thief all pathetically weak compared to dragonhunter, weaver, or holosmith.

You've done nothing serious to bring all these classes up in terms of viable power builds. That's why most builds in the game are condi, because most classes don't even have the option to play a power build.

Yeah. This is pretty accurate. It's also the fact that power classes not DH/ele don't have very strong ranged weapon options(read: really really really weak) for power based builds and really screws them over in open world and solo content when fighting something super annoying you can't melee or got hit by too much stuff and need time to wait for heal/cooldowns to come back up before you can go into melee again.

You generally fulltime melee in organized group content but in open world not having a ranged weapon that does good DPS is REALLY annoying. All power classes not DH or elementalist greatly lack a good ranged power weapon.

[Ragnarox.9601]

So we need to expect condi necro or scourge fart 5 bleed confusion burning torment poison for 1 min duration? bahahaAnd again guardian nerf for nothing. Condi guardian is not even good.This is going to be a big buff for condi mesmer....

[Ok I Did It.2854]

So is this just going to me a new necro nerf, or is it a real attempt at balance,

They said counterplay, so are we going to see a split, as counter play would be PvP/ WvW, I don't think a legendary boss ingame needs counter play other than there 1 shot mechanics,

So now condi classes can build damage over time which I guess if the enemy doesn't have a condi cleanse works great, but if they do, I guess they can still hit you for 10-15k crit and take you out in a few hits..... who exactly is this counter play for, im guessing all the people who are QQing saying, stop condi scourge, remove scourge, etc etc etc

Im sure there are key classes that might benefit from this "patch" but im guessing necro wont be one of them.

[Etterwyn.5263]

Ok I know you don't really take requests, but I'm gonna ask anyway could you please revisit Runes of the Reaper? 100 Toughness is completely meaningless. Could the secondary function be +10% and +15% Chill duration? That would at least be useful. Anyway back to our regularly scheduled programming...

[Rym.1469]

Mind removing Sand Savant from Scourge as well?

[Vicko.1204]

If you are going to nerf condition burst dmg,then consider looking some condi cleansing abilities some classes have.I can understand it's healthier,mostly in a PvP / WvW PoV,to reduce the burst potential of conditions,but some classes have extremely high condi removal tools while other classes have almost 0.

The condi burst helped dealing with classes with high number of condi cleansing tools,but destroyed classes without ones.Now with the condi changes,you don't only help the classes with low condi cleanses,but also the classes with extreme condi removal abilities.Please,take a look on that,don't just let it be and make us wait for the next patch day.Helping classes with low condi cleansing is good and welcomed,but don't let the high condi removal specs to run untouched.

Just a PvP PoV,thank you.

[ThomasC.1056]

Condis shouldn't be bursty, it's a fact. In a perfect game, indeed, they should deal slightly more damage than power, but over a significant amount of time. Which justifies Dire and TB stats to exist.

Now, they are bursty, which is an issue in PvP and WvW, and their key efficiency in PvE. Why ? Specifically in PvP game modes :

1. Because they can
2. Because it's too dangerous to engage in a long fight (dangerous and boring, btw)
3. Because, whatever people say, condi will deal more damage than power only if they're not removed or negated (resistance). So as the condi removal is a big thing (firebrands ?), a burst is the logical solution.

Now, that change is a difficult bet for condi users. It raises the risk, and shed a strong uncertainity on the reward. It's also a dangerous path to follow. We'll see...

[eldrjth.7384]

Im going to have a complete ascended heavy armor set for my guardian (either FB/DH) and now cant decide whether to use vipers/marauders stats. Wonder which would be the best for playing mostly fractals.

[Astralporing.1957]

@apharma.3741 said:4 burns for 5s will do the same damage as 2 burns for 10s and once fully into a rotation the dps numbers shouldn’t change too much. The real question is just how long of a ramp up time we are talking about for PvE but considering most of the highest dps builds are currently condition builds which have less stringent requirements for hitting the numbers (no scholar) then there needs to be a shift to make power worth running.At this moment the only way to make power builds worth running in PvE on most classes is to buff power builds. No matter how you nerf condi, power dps warrior, necro or ranger for example are simply not worth taking.