So many questions, so little answers. Anet it is Wednesday already and we heard NOTHING.

[Doghouse.1562]

2 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Game companies don't normally get involved in guild politics.  WR really has nothing to do with guild politics either.  You'd still be stuck having to pick and choose if they had ever transferred to a different server.

ANet's short-notice announcement of the "permanent beta" has triggered politics in spades. It's been responsible on multiple servers to my own knowledge for all sorts of inter- and intra-guild ructions. It's certainly caused issues where none were before, and it's most definitely not been helped by a near-total lack of information from ANet on how things are actually going to work. Whatever - I've simply stated how I see things right now. If you disagree, that's fine. I'll be more than happy to be proved wrong.

[roederich.2716]

19 hours ago, Leaa.2943 said:

On Friday, three days from now Arena Net will destroy our comunites to reshuffle the servers and add forever beta aka World restruction. There is no alliances in play, so what we get is litterally a shuffle. Alliances would have made it possible to move comunties but World restructions will not. There is not enough slots to cover a whole comunites. So i will leave friends behind that i played with for 12 years. Most people i know and played and talked to every day, and many people i played along side with. I don't know them but i do know them as they know me. So many left behind.

 

It is not unknown that i beeen sceptic to alliances and more so world restruction since it came up a decade ago. I said from the start it is a bad idea and most people agree with me on servers i play on, there are obviously also people that don't agree and that is fine. How ever what is not fine Arena Net is that it is THREE DAYS LEFT and you have not made a single post about WvW and World Restruction. We know NOTHING about how you are planning this, how it will play out, what will be, and what will come.

And the tools, the tools i been told i am a idiot that dont understand that you guys are making amazing tools to make awsome matchups and i am just a moron that do not give you the time to show them. So are you? Is there new tools? How will they work? How do matchup works. What deterimine which worlds will fight eachother? What counts as a win? How do you win? Will a win get something? How to you determine that? How long will we stick with the people on our world that is not with our guild? I mean it is litterally like links but again people told me your tools will fix everything, will they?

 

Where is the info? Why is there no info? We waited for a decade and a few days left and nothing is said.  TALK TO US!

 

And to the people who will tell me about how wrong i am i am sorrby but today i dont care how you feel about it. We are there now, i want to know what is gonna happen. I want Anet to show that WvW IS a cornerstone. I want that info before we get tossed in to something we know nothing about. TALK TO US ARENA NET!

what info do you still need?

1. From next reset on there are no servers.

2. Either you joined a guild and mark them in guild panel or not.

a) you have a guild: you play with your friends who are in the same wvw guild and the rest of the people needed for the matchup are filled up by anet system.

b) you have no guild; you are shuffled into a match randomly.

 

thats it

[Chaba.5410]

26 minutes ago, Doghouse.1562 said:

ANet's short-notice announcement of the "permanent beta" has triggered politics in spades. It's been responsible on multiple servers to my own knowledge for all sorts of inter- and intra-guild ructions. It's certainly caused issues where none were before, and it's most definitely not been helped by a near-total lack of information from ANet on how things are actually going to work. Whatever - I've simply stated how I see things right now. If you disagree, that's fine. I'll be more than happy to be proved wrong.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong.  It could very well trigger lots of guild politics.  I agree with you on that.  All I was pointing out was guild politics exist with and without WR and there's a policy about such politics.  They do happen in PvE too.

https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/360013021194-Policy-Guild-Ownership-and-Name-Changes

[ArchonWing.9480]

11 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

You discount communities that you have been part of. As I have called them pub communities. It's a matter of seeing peeps day in and day out. Fighting with them, helping them, aiding them, emoting them, doing things with them, yet you might not be in the same guild or voice. But you have still gotten to know them, know when they will or will not do things. 

But none of that matters. WR is inc, so anyone not in a guild or comm guild needs to get there or, get your mindset to float and see where the winds take you. Good hunting!

Actually, yea it is very discountable, if in a decade people haven't bothered to add them or even remember their names enough to get things together for a little bit. OP chose to write a 400 word essay on whatever when they could have been spending their time going down their friends' lists or just even anywhere in t chat to get some friends together. Like priorities?

There's a mysterious 6th guild slot and a set as WvW guild button that has worked the same way it will for the last previous betas. Why is it even necessary to ask any questions?  You don't even have to rep that guild or do anything as such; just join that guild and pretend it's your alliance or whatever. Some my friends aren't part of my guild, i just told them to join the guild, join the alliance, and shut the kitten up. Then they can play as nothing happened. Easy.

It only takes one or two people in the entire group to take action; and if everyone wants to remain that oblivious, and that's on them. You cannot wax poetic about a community that will not lift 2 fingers to adapt.

This has nothing to do with being in the same guild. This isn't 1998 anymore where games may only get patched a few times over their lifetime. In this day and age, where information is readily found anywhere, hiding under a rock is not an excuse. So when people say that they've been playing the game continuously for a decade and have some emotional investment into it and still pretend to not know what's going on, it's a little hard to take seriously-- though completely believable since Gw2 players aren't one for personal responsibility in the slightest.

  

8 hours ago, disForm.2837 said:

It's absolutely going to happen, at least some degree of chaos. I mostly play with a WvW guild, Alliance and everything. After dozens of announcements, warnings in chat, comms, etc. We still had a couple of guys asking "what's about the new Alliance thing?".  These are not casual gamers, we have several rallies every week.

 

Do not underestimate how disconnected are some players.

Oh trust me, I'm very familiar with how head in the sand  some people are, and this certainly goes beyond this game.

Of course, it's not my problem; it's up to them to handle the consequences of their decisions. Probably not that; we'll see next week on forums.

Yea I understand that not everyone can live in this game, but there's gotta be something in between being a no lifer and being a drooling mess that has to be handheld at every spot I think.

Edited June 12 by ArchonWing.9480

[Chaba.5410]

Seems oddly relevant.  Ten signs you're in a relationship for familiarity and comfort, not real love.  (Or in this case, real community.)

1. You prioritize routine over spontaneity

2. You avoid serious conversations

3. Your partner feels more like a best friend

4. You fear change

5. You’re not excited about them

6. You’re staying because it’s easy

7. Your future together seems vague

8. You feel like you’re playing a role

9. You’re settling for less than you deserve

10. You’re not truly happy

 

https://thevessel.io/signs-youre-in-a-relationship-for-familiarity-and-comfort-not-real-love/

Edited June 12 by Chaba.5410

[ArchonWing.9480]

14 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Seems oddly relevant.  Ten signs you're in a relationship for familiarity and comfort, not real love.  (Or in this case, real community.)

1. You prioritize routine over spontaneity

2. You avoid serious conversations

3. Your partner feels more like a best friend

4. You fear change

5. You’re not excited about them

6. You’re staying because it’s easy

7. Your future together seems vague

8. You feel like you’re playing a role

9. You’re settling for less than you deserve

10. You’re not truly happy

 

https://thevessel.io/signs-youre-in-a-relationship-for-familiarity-and-comfort-not-real-love/

Yea. Basically people make it about themselves.

See, I'm skeptical that most of the complaints acutally care about their "community". It's more that they've realized they've lost exclusive access to people they find of value and don't know what to do about it. So it's really just about them and what they've lost, hence all the portrayal as one as a victim, with these invisible "friends" being used as a collateral.

It's like all those self absorbed relatives that come down like vultures when an elder relative is dying. They'll go on and on to them about how they're the most important thing in their lives and all that good stuff, and one is stuck wondering "wouldn't it be really nice if they heard that when they were alive and well?". And maybe at the very least they've learned their lesson and would take some responsibility but they barely can stand 30 minutes at a funeral. It really just shows you where their hearts are. Some of them will even seem surprise they don't get any inheritance, because hey, care goes both ways, right?

I mean it is fine to act emotionally, and it is fine to make mistakes. The problem is people here are just all talk, and even after this they will still fill the text box with more explanations and no plans. I mean what kind of excuse is "other people are clueless too!". Well, maybe you can help them a bit!

I sincerely hope they can prove me wrong. We still have 48 hours left to fix everything, but even if we don't, there is still time to prepare for the next matchup.

And again, none of this is for me. People can say whatever they want to pwn this argument, but at the end of the day, consequences are consequences.

In other words...

 

Edited June 12 by ArchonWing.9480

[Tralala.4291]

'Your "communities" aren't going anywhere, you still have 5 guilds slots to talk to them' 

My 2 guilds couldn't team up because even with getting rid of people who had not been on for a while there were still too many for the limit. I assume alliances if they had been brought in would have allowed it. I have been told i have to leave one, I cannot stay because they dont want me on their guild chat in case i end up on an enemy team. It sucks

[kash.9213]

21 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Yea. Basically people make it about themselves.

See, I'm skeptical that most of the complaints acutally care about their "community". It's more that they've realized they've lost exclusive access to people they find of value and don't know what to do about it. So it's really just about them and what they've lost, hence all the portrayal as one as a victim, with these invisible "friends" being used as a collateral.

It's like all those self absorbed relatives that come down like vultures when an elder relative is dying. They'll go on and on to them about how they're the most important thing in their lives and all that good stuff, and one is stuck wondering "wouldn't it be really nice if they heard that when they were alive and well?". And maybe at the very least they've learned their lesson and would take some responsibility but they barely can stand 30 minutes at a funeral. It really just shows you where their hearts are. Some of them will even seem surprise they don't get any inheritance, because hey, care goes both ways, right?

I mean it is fine to act emotionally, and it is fine to make mistakes. The problem is people here are just all talk, and even after this they will still fill the text box with more explanations and no plans. I mean what kind of excuse is "other people are clueless too!". Well, maybe you can help them a bit!

I sincerely hope they can prove me wrong. We still have 48 hours left to fix everything, but even if we don't, there is still time to prepare for the next matchup.

And again, none of this is for me. People can say whatever they want to pwn this argument, but at the end of the day, consequences are consequences.

In other words...

 

No, it's also about the community. I'm not throwing a fit about it, but I get where people are coming from. We have a lot of regulars that have been on our server for years or going all the way back to the beginning. Many of them are in alt bank guilds like me or don't rep any guild, but over time everyone kind of blends into the same guild like vibe and there's also a lot of cross over. I can see most of them ending up in one of the guilds that will likely link up with our main guild and others, but there's definitely a sour vibe around possibly losing that at least initially in the shuffle or worse (or worse happens a lot so none of us should be so easily discounting concerns).

Bad links and Alliance betas made me appreciate the fam even more if that was possible.

There is the element of the basic value of those people like you said. We've been around the same body language for long enough that you really feel it when you have to pace with other servers pugs and guilds or try to read them or get them to read you. 

The whole thing would probably go down easier for people if it wasn't botched at every step and features not forgotten or even rolled back. 

Edited June 12 by kash.9213

[Dawdler.8521]

8 minutes ago, Tralala.4291 said:

'Your "communities" aren't going anywhere, you still have 5 guilds slots to talk to them' 

My 2 guilds couldn't team up because even with getting rid of people who had not been on for a while there were still too many for the limit. I assume alliances if they had been brought in would have allowed it. I have been told i have to leave one, I cannot stay because they dont want me on their guild chat in case i end up on an enemy team. It sucks

The limits would have been the same, 500 peeps. So the assumption would be wrong. If you cant fit them today with a 500 man community guild, a 500 man alliance would have been no difference. 

Most people against WR complain that this is too high though, not too low. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

5 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

No, it's also about the community. I'm not throwing a fit about it, but I get where people are coming from. We have a lot of regulars that have been on our server for years or going all the way back to the beginning. Many of them are in alt bank guilds like me or don't rep any guild, but over time everyone kind of blends into the same guild like vibe and there's also a lot of cross over. I can see most of them ending up in one of the guilds that will likely link up with our main guild and others, but there's definitely a sour vibe around possibly losing that at least initially in the shuffle or worse (or worse happens a lot so none of us should be so easily discounting concerns).

Bad links and Alliance betas made me appreciate the fam even more if that was possible.

There is the element of the basic value of those people like you said. We've been around the same body language for long enough that you really feel it when you have to pace with other servers pugs and guilds or try to read them or get them to read you. 

The whole thing would probably go down easier for people if it wasn't botched at every step and features not forgotten or even rolled back. 

But unless you have 500+ total, which is entirely possible, what is the issue of just joining guild 6?

It is possible you won't have gotten everyone, or simply lost contact, but this isn't like some permanent thing and can catch people for the next round.

This is especially true if your community uses discord; or any discord. It just takes one point of contact.

I mean I understand that it'd be more convenient to link guilds together into an alliance but this process is just the same with more steps.

I'm not really sure if you mean by the last sentence either.

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

But unless you have 500+ total, which is entirely possible, 1) what is the issue of just joining guild 6?

It is possible you won't have gotten everyone, or simply lost contact, but this isn't like some permanent thing and can catch people for the next round.

This is especially true if your community uses discord; or any discord. It just takes one point of contact.

2) I mean I understand that it'd be more convenient to link guilds together into an alliance but this process is just the same with more steps.

I'm not really sure if you mean by the last sentence either.

1) There are issues but not impossible. I wasn't arguing against that and I even mentioned it. 

2) It would be way easier and more inviting to new players and newly formed guilds. That process is the same if you're already established. There's a real possibility that WvW will tamper down to only the established element and might discourage those who could replenish it. Hopefully people will figure things out and work out their own system since Anet bowed out of their own for the most part. 

What I meant by my last sentence is what I wrote but I can be bad explaining stuff so pardon. 

Edited June 12 by kash.9213

[ArchonWing.9480]

39 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

1) There are issues but not impossible. I wasn't arguing against that and I even mentioned it. 

2) It would be way easier and more inviting to new players and newly formed guilds. That process is the same if you're already established. There's a real possibility that WvW will tamper down to only the established element and might discourage those who could replenish it. Hopefully people will figure things out and work out their own system since Anet bowed out of their own for the most part. 

What I meant by my last sentence is what I wrote but I can be bad explaining stuff so pardon. 

Not denying that alliances are effectively Anet bowing out of server creation, but I think many would agree that they weren't doing much of a job at all with those matchups.

One thing this is missing here is the existence of PvX and PvE guild which is probably why many have a ??? about the difficulty going. Not only are guilds pretty typical in PvE, new players can just join WvW with their guildies just by setting their current guild as WvW guild because the guild itself doesn't need input. There are plenty of guilds that only delve into WvW briefly for weekly activities and such.

I understand that a lot of casual players aren't going to join a WvW or even a server alliance guild due to as you've noted, some of these are going to be for only established players. But the fact is you don't actually need any of that, if one just gets some people from the same guild to set their guild as WvW guild.

And of course there's the more obvious thing about just joining WvW to get recruited. In its current state, servers are full and some guilds are unable to recruit, so alliances should make this easier for some.

But the thing here is  this topic is not about newer players. My posts are a commentary about people playing this game for a very long time and for some reason hasn't seem to established much of a presence. My only challenge is more of people to self reflect that if they actually care about their server mates, or is this just some kind parasocial projected sort of relationship, because a lot of server communities have already prepared for quite a while, while the more toxic ones are falling apart and making some ridiculous demands out of their users like kicking them for not being there for a week.

I mean each to their own, but if someone plays the game for 10 years and hasn't made any real friends or acquaintances  except maybe a few that they "might" have association with, or ends up in a corporate style guild that has ridiculous authoritarian rules (unless they're actually happy about that), then something has gone very wrong, and it's only a matter of time before someone goes wrong, if anet didn't blow it up already. That is simply the result of playing an MMO like a single player game.

Like this:

  

2 hours ago, Tralala.4291 said:

My 2 guilds couldn't team up because even with getting rid of people who had not been on for a while there were still too many for the limit. I assume alliances if they had been brought in would have allowed it. I have been told i have to leave one, I cannot stay because they dont want me on their guild chat in case i end up on an enemy team. It sucks

I just can't imagine there weren't red flags before this. I wouldn't even have to be asked to leave. Why would you even want to form an alliance with that?

Like I've been in guilds that started enacting paranoid rules like banning people because they could be spies. But it was a pretty gradual descent and I was out.

Edited June 12 by ArchonWing.9480

[Sugar Min.5834]

On 6/12/2024 at 7:26 AM, Leaa.2943 said:

... And the tools, the tools i been told i am a idiot that dont understand that you guys are making amazing tools to make awsome matchups and i am just a moron that do not give you the time to show them. So are you? Is there new tools? How will they work? How do matchup works. What deterimine which worlds will fight eachother? What counts as a win? How do you win? Will a win get something? How to you determine that? How long will we stick with the people on our world that is not with our guild? I mean it is litterally like links but again people told me your tools will fix everything, will they? ...

What tools? I read they only use bottle spinner for WvW for matchups.

Edited June 12 by Sugar Min.5834

[Tralala.4291]

No red flags, both guilds relaxed. Some of them play more than the rest of us and want to use restructuring to be less casual and that subset seem to now be calling the shots; this has only openly happened in the last 2 weeks. I wont be the only one this happens too, some guilds will not be ok with you staying with them for a month if you dont end up with them in match up.

Edited June 12 by Tralala.4291

[corwin.8356]

17 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

more random worlds and more focused on guilds.

Hey Dawd,

Odd how folks don't see we might actually have Guild Wars (har har) now.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

Spoiler alert: They will place me on a dead team full of noobs, ppter and pvers players, pitted against two teams packed with members from the biggest guild out there.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

Spoiler alert: They will place me on a dead team full of noobs, ppter and pvers players, pitted against two teams packed with members from the biggest guild out there.

I actually imagine if you don't select a WvW guild they'd actually do this.  I fully expect those who don't join to any guild to just be dumped in some overflow team.

inb4 'as they should, all hail community guilds!'

Edited June 13 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Morvran.8265]

Guilds won't be the same as servers. Not even close.

The community is made up of server regulars, not just close friends. It's impossible to get everyone into the same guild.

But let's assume we do. Guilds die and fracture all the time. Servers didn't, even with transfers. 6 months from now you probably won't be in your alliance guild, meanwhile there are people on my server I've known for years.

Restructuring could end up having a negative impact on the gamemode. There will be a honeymoon period of high activity for 2-3 weeks, only then can we start truly discussing this change. Some of us are just a bit skeptical, I think that's valid.

[Zok.4956]

11 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

You’re settling for less than you deserve

As a paying customer, I think I deserve a better quality game (I'm not saying everything/mostly is bad, I still like a lot of things about the game) and would be happy to spend more money on better quality.

Am I in trouble to get divorced? 😉

[Dawdler.8521]

58 minutes ago, Morvran.8265 said:

Guilds won't be the same as servers.

No one is pretending that either.

58 minutes ago, Morvran.8265 said:

Guilds die and fracture all the time. Servers didn't, even with transfers. 6 months from now you probably won't be in your alliance guild, meanwhile there are people on my server I've known for years.

But I guess no one ever bandwagoned between worlds.

Edited June 13 by Dawdler.8521

[RisingDawn.5796]

4 hours ago, Morvran.8265 said:

Guilds won't be the same as servers. Not even close.

The community is made up of server regulars, not just close friends. It's impossible to get everyone into the same guild.

But let's assume we do. Guilds die and fracture all the time. Servers didn't, even with transfers. 6 months from now you probably won't be in your alliance guild, meanwhile there are people on my server I've known for years.

Restructuring could end up having a negative impact on the gamemode. There will be a honeymoon period of high activity for 2-3 weeks, only then can we start truly discussing this change. Some of us are just a bit skeptical, I think that's valid.

I saw server communities break, over the fact guilds influenced the server culture and politics over 10 years ago, even though those servers had server community leaders, admins and coordinators like me,  upto most recent times with server linkings, mass transfers and alt account.

Alot of commanders, got trained, learned and are from active wvw guilds.

Like my original server, had lost at least 150+ players and guilds in 2013, when there was 10x the amount of active guilds in wvw, on some servers  due to drama, but there was an active enough player population, to rebuild that  community until server linkings, created yet another mess.

Most servers are unrecognisable these days, due to both real life and drama on servers between leaders and communities.

Edited June 13 by RisingDawn.5796

[TheGrimm.5624]

21 hours ago, disForm.2837 said:

It's absolutely going to happen, at least some degree of chaos. I mostly play with a WvW guild, Alliance and everything. After dozens of announcements, warnings in chat, comms, etc. We still had a couple of guys asking "what's about the new Alliance thing?".  These are not casual gamers, we have several rallies every week.

 

Do not underestimate how disconnected are some players.

I don't, I asked again tonight and still had to explain what was coming to some people replying, what do mean?

[TheGrimm.5624]

18 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Why would they talk about sorting? they will hide details about the system as much as they do for world population measurements and relink method, so players don't game the system.

Transfers are locked out, hence why we're getting 4 week periods instead of the usual 8 weeks, until they figure that part out.

Initial placements? random like the betas? what else would they use for a system that's suppose to be sorting all worlds to be near each other in population status and come in fresh with no data behind it for placements.

Yes they are sticking to 500, bit late to change that number don't you think? that's been the answer for six years, maybe this is something they will look at if they decide to actually go forward with the alliance part down the road. 

Again why would they share all the details of sorting so players can just game the system. They did tell us last beta that time zone sorting was implemented. Sorry but for the health of the system the players don't need to know the nitty gritty parts of the system. Human nature will just make us want to abuse the system for an advantage. Same reason players use fotm specs to fight with.

🤷‍♂️☕

Haters gonna hate 🕺 🤭 -->

 

lol. You know me, I am going to aim high to crash hard. I want them to do better. And yes, I want details. And yes, I will still try and 1 v 20 since I am a stubborn kitten. So anytime you want to make it rain I am game my friend lol. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Actually, yea it is very discountable, if in a decade people haven't bothered to add them or even remember their names enough to get things together for a little bit. OP chose to write a 400 word essay on whatever when they could have been spending their time going down their friends' lists or just even anywhere in t chat to get some friends together. Like priorities?

 

Yet I doubt this. I think that after so long, you knew peeps without having to have them in voice. You knew ones that would hold, those that would fold. Those that would fight and those that would run. You knew those that would stack and those that cloud. Those that would join a tag, those that havoc and those that roam.

In all cases its moot. WR arrives tomorrow. That said, I still agree, an Anet blog on current info is overdue. Anet should stop being slack in details. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

12 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The limits would have been the same, 500 peeps. So the assumption would be wrong. If you cant fit them today with a 500 man community guild, a 500 man alliance would have been no difference. 

Most people against WR complain that this is too high though, not too low. 

Is it still 500, how old is that info you assume on? 2 Years?