We have problem

[eriniy.8607]

I wached 25 years ols mmorpg on twich right now.The number of players watching the game was 347 and I have never played the game and I do not plan to play it.I came across it randomly and since I was in my own language, I continued watching even though GW2 was open in the background.Nothing was interesting to play or looked good.The stremer was standing in an area on a horse and constantly killing the wolves that came towards him.He continued to do this non-stop and was talking to viewers like me.The purpose of doing this is to earn money in the game and for this, he farms by staying in the same place for 8 hours a day and broadcasting it gets an average of 200-500 views.While watching, I asked him why he was playing that game when there were many games with new and more advanced mechanics.I said that new mmorpg games have better graphics and better mechanics.Instead of answering me, he asked me what game I was playing.He told me he had never heard of GW2.I told him that GW 2 is very crowded and popular and that it is one of the top three most popular mmorpg games.During the broadcast, he was talking about paying $300 for some items in the game, and several people in the chat started bargaining to buy the game-specific items he was selling.So the game is a pay and win game. The more money you spend, the stronger you become and even if you do PvP, you win with items.Also, when I did a short research, I learned that the company itself sold cheats in order to prevent cheating and hacking in the game, and that a man from my country became rich by selling the hacked super powerful items of the game secretly from the company during the 10 years he worked for the company.In summary, the game is perhaps one of the worst online MMORPGs that can be played.

So why is this twitch streamer so watched even though it is a very small streamer by its own definition and the history of this game is truly terrible?When he said he hadn't heard of GW2, he looked at the number of views on Twitch and said, "No one is watching it. Very few people must really be playing the GW2 game.I said that the games are actually very crowded, but there are never many viewers on Twitch.They didn't believe it 😄

That's right, now this means there is a huge problem in GW2.Many gamers and streamers decide whether to play or not to play the game by looking at the number of views. Especially when it is an MMORPG, all players try to understand whether the game is crowded or not by looking at the number of views on Twicih.There is something that can be done about this. If the number of viewers increases, the number of players will increase. As the number of players increases, the game will attract more and more players. Since both the company earns more money and the company earns more money, we will receive more content. So, everyone will be happy.A mmorpg I used to play used a different tactic in this regard and the number of views could be around 80,000 on Twitch.First of all, every viewer earns in-game rewards as they watch. The producers themselves broadcast about the game every week and sit in front of us and show us which bugs they fixed this week, the pictures the players made about the game, the designs of the players' houses and guilds in the game, and choose the best ones by the votes of the viewers.Every week, they hold a lottery among the viewers and give a big gift, like our gem, with an average value of around 100 dollars, to one player.Then they leave the broadcast by handing it over to one of the normal official broadcasters. But they tell us what they did that week, what they have planned, and the audience can talk to them directly.

In the game, first of all, you can face many difficulties both with crowded groups as in other morphs, and on your own.

1-One of the reasons why we don't watch GW2 is that there is no event like a crowded raid in PVP.So a pvp like 15 vs 15 or 20 vs 20 is required.

2-1vs1 ranked pvp required.Very talented players should be able to rise and broadcast this without being dependent on other players.

3-Single player fractal, strike and raids are required.Instead of these, something new, such as a tower, can be added to it and the players can be in a way that becomes more difficult as the floors increase.

4-GW2 is a complex game and viewers often may not understand what is happening.You don't want to watch something you don't understand.For this reason, single player or new PVP sections to be added to the game should be designed to be simpler and understandable by the audience.

5-Those who work for A-net, the designers of the game, the graphics and the voice-over artists should publish a collective broadcast.They should do this constantly, like the game I described above.GW2 staff should engage in dialogue with the players.

6-Advertising should be done, this will help the game attract more players, and more money can be made by taking advantage of the player base when a new mmorpg is made in the future.

7-GW2 staff should create Memes  and joke items related to the game, this kind of thing spreads too fast.

8-Add something different to the game, such as skyscale wars PVP. In other words, do things that will surprise everyone. For example, let the GMs come to the city and kill everyone.

[Farohna.6247]

Hold on, I'm going to need coffee to read this....

[eriniy.8607]

There is one very important thing that I forgot.In the other game I mentioned, the producers made songs for the game, sung by the singers.GW2 has nice music, but this music is different from the songs we listen to. So, more things should be added to the game in terms of music.I have different ideas on this subject, I had to add them.Remember that music and related videos spread everywhere very quickly.

9-Add a new class to the game and fight with music.Many games have this, but by doing it in a different way, we can instantly let billions of players know about your game and have singers sing songs about the game.A class that fights using various musical instruments and does not use normal weapons can be added to the game. For example, we can go to war with a flute and guitar.This is something we have seen in almost every mmorpg so far.What will be different for us is that the power of this class, its damage, its defense and the boon it gives to the friends in its team or around it will change according to the music made by the player playing it.The music that each skill will play, such as 1-2-3-4-5, etc., just like our normal skills, will be newly added to the game and will be set up with an interface where players can determine their notes and rhythm, that is, they can write their own songs and music.In addition, for the ultimate skill, players will sing a song and the lyrics and music of the song can be selected and adjusted by the players with a similar interface. So, in my ultimate song, I will be able to choose the lyrics of She'll Be Coming 'Round The Mountain and sing it as a children's song or write my own song.Look, I didn't write this because I wanted to play with this class, it will attract millions of players. This can and should be done.Also, the boons I receive should increase when we move in accordance with the music and follow the rhythm.

Edited June 15 by eriniy.8607

[Farohna.6247]

Coffee didn't help.  OP, switch to decaf.  

[Obnoxa.6702]

25 years old?  Whatever shadow of EQ you are referring to - I promise you that is not the EQ of old, Daybreak games blows and they tarnished the you know what out of one of the founding fathers of MMOs.
That aside....
I worked really hard to get as far into you post as I could, I made it two thirds before I had to skim for my own sanity and am rather proud of the achievement, but i wont lie, I am trying desperately to connect to dots between a guy on a horse and twitch and skyscale wars in pvp.
You are gonna need to tighten your point up a bit.

I will say this though, I am an old business grad with an extensive background in Marketing - it is clear to me that you are not, which leads me to my next point; I do not choose what games to play based on streaming numbers, nor does my 19 yo daughter, nor do my three RL friends who game. I also don't anyone, absolutely anyone, who's decision to play a game is made or broken on the music
Both Mukluk and Teapot pull streaming numbers well into the thousands, I don't watch Aynmaiden on twitch, but when she came into Muk's twitch channel hundreds upon hundreds of people were thanking her and praising her for all her yt videos and streams so there's clearly a decent numbered following. I just checked twitch now, and the 4 streamers live on EQ, not one had more than 36 viewers, so you want to pitch marketing strategies you are going to need to bring some actual numbers and names to your argument.

And adding a bard class will attract will attract MILLIONS of new players? 
Ok, now I'm starting to feel the same level of discomfort and confusion I felt the first time I was legitimately Rick-rolled.
You had me on the first post, I thought maybe it was an English as a second language barrier, but then you got greedy... you took it too far with killing people by playing she'll be coming 'round the mountain on a flute.
Millions of players... that's good, you almost had me. 🤣

Edited June 15 by Obnoxa.6702

[DeathPanel.8362]

You're basically saying GW2 doesn't do marketing well.  The problem with marketing is it's a trap.  It is effective but it is hollow.  Companies end up pushing more and more marketing into their product to get more profits eventually to the detriment of the quality of their product.  Eventually, the quality becomes so poor that no amount of marketing will make up for it, and then that's when the collapse starts.

GW2 had longevity precisely because it focused more on its gameplay and mechanics rather than marketing.  

[Cuks.8241]

Its hard to look at. If I would ever watch a stream of gw2 I would probably never tried it.

Flashy over the  top  skill effects that cover half the screen. Crazy outfit and weapon effects that serve no gameplay purpose. Silly accessories like angel wings and cat ears. All these immediately make me think of Korean cash grab mmos with overload of kitten and not much substance.

Watched a streamer yesterday looking at new Dragon Age gameplay. After a few minutes he concluded game will be bad because of over the top flashy effects and low visual clarity. Will it be bad? Who knows. But thats the first impression.

[neighto.7386]

I guess I'm just old, but I don't understand why anyone would watch a steamer play the game in the first place...   let alone basing their opinion of a game based solely on how many viewers watch a person play said game instead of trying it themselves.   

 

 As per the OP..... two well earned confused emojis!

[starlinvf.1358]

36 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

You're basically saying GW2 doesn't do marketing well.  The problem with marketing is it's a trap.  It is effective but it is hollow.  Companies end up pushing more and more marketing into their product to get more profits eventually to the detriment of the quality of their product.  Eventually, the quality becomes so poor that no amount of marketing will make up for it, and then that's when the collapse starts.

GW2 had longevity precisely because it focused more on its gameplay and mechanics rather than marketing.  

Thats only a half truth.  Marketing doesn’t make a game worse. Execs just think marketing will make something sell regardless. so they invest more money and attention into that, rather then the game or product.  And the sad part is they are right. 

But this also bites them in the kitten, because its an old strategy from the one and done days of game sales.  In the current era of targeting endless recurrent spending, its obvious to everyone else that its unsustainable if the game can’t do this on its own.  But modern business’s idea of a risk is putting out several low cost products on the market in a short time.

 On the chance one is successful, that becomes your cash cow for all eternity. And will continuously invest in marketing that, while cutting studio sizes to improve margins at the cost of quality, bumping the cost of in-game cash shops to increase revenue, and cancelling all other projects to focus on that one money maker.   And promise doubling profits year on year.   

[DeathPanel.8362]

11 minutes ago, starlinvf.1358 said:

Thats only a half truth.  Marketing doesn’t make a game worse. Execs just think marketing will make something sell regardless. so they invest more money and attention into that, rather then the game or product.  And the sad part is they are right. 

 

You need to reread what I said carefully.  I said it's a trap.  It's a cheap way to get more profits instead of improving the product.  Because of this, execs who care only about numbers on a spreadsheet will push more company resources into marketing.  When you put more resources into marketing, you'll have less into developing the product. 

This will harm the quality of the product over time due to lack of investment and as quality drops, so does consumer demand.  Company execs will then double down on marketing in order to try to maintain their numbers so they can get their yearly bonuses, which makes things worse.  Eventually, marketing gets so bloated it starts taking over the decisions of the company and becomes kittenous.

Eventually, demand will collapse completely due to the poor quality, and that's when it's over.

[Astralporing.1957]

Those AI bots are getting better and better, but the technology apparently still isn't there yet.

...or at least that's the only explanation i have after reading all that (and the previous ones as well). It was quite painful to get through all of it. there seems to be some underlying message behind it (GW2 has bad twitch presence, i'd guess), but it's quite unclear and lost in a ton of stuff incoherently heaped on top of it.

@OP: Work on making your posts more clear, and try to present them in smaller,more understandable pieces with more coherent messaging. Until that, all you will get from readers is even more of confused reactions (which, i'm quite sure, are mostly used exactly as intended).

[Omega.6801]

4 hours ago, eriniy.8607 said:

8- [...] For example, let the GMs come to the city and kill everyone.

This seems to be a very special idea for you as you bring it up every few weeks. I'm doing something now that I usually strongly advise against, I will speak for non-me people when I say: NO ONE WANTS THIS OUTSIDE OF YOU (please if anyone but OP wants this correct me).
Just imagine this scenario: You are a casual player, you don't go to the forums, to reddit or any other news outlet that would inform you about "a surprise may happen this Saturday in Lion's Arch ;)". You've spent the last six month farming in game events, currencies and materials to craft your first Legendary and today is the day. You got it all set up and you're on your way to the Mystic Forge. Boy oh boy, this is going to be great! All this time and you're finally going to get your Legendary! But no, what's that?! The moment you press "Craft" the GMs pull the plug on you and insta kill the whole map. Hillarious. Wow. Such fun. I'd probably log off and won't log in for a month if at all. Again, NO ONE BUT YOU WANTS THIS (again if anyone but OP thinks this is a fun idea for this game in this year correct me. Maybe this sort of thing was cool to do in og runescape 20 years ago, but today this sort of thing just won't fly.)

Edited June 15 by Omega.6801

[Ashen.2907]

OP has some solid points. Ignoring specifics and focusing on the overall point, I do think that better marketing, and getting views on Twitch could be just that, could improve the game's draw. 

Unfortunately ANet has really invested in overly flashy, to the point of being oppressive, visuals that do as much or more to conceal gameplay than they do to accentuate it. This would make Twitch streaming as a form of putting the game on display a very difficult sell.

BTW, the difficult tower idea exists in game. I enjoy it solo, you might as well.

[Farohna.6247]

18 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

OP has some solid points. Ignoring specifics and focusing on the overall point, I do think that better marketing, and getting views on Twitch could be just that, could improve the game's draw. 

Unfortunately ANet has really invested in overly flashy, to the point of being oppressive, visuals that do as much or more to conceal gameplay than they do to accentuate it. This would make Twitch streaming as a form of putting the game on display a very difficult sell.

BTW, the difficult tower idea exists in game. I enjoy it solo, you might as well.

Marketing is a valid point.  Social media presence is reasonable.  But paying Anet staff to create memes and sing songs or watering down content so Twitch viewers  can understand a game, no. 

[Ashen.2907]

15 minutes ago, Farohna.6247 said:

Marketing is a valid point.  Social media presence is reasonable.  But paying Anet staff to create memes and sing songs or watering down content so Twitch viewers  can understand a game, no. 

Sure, and that is why I said, "some," not all points and why I said ignoring the details to focus on his overall point. Overall the point is about using Twitch to increase visibility of the game. There are roadblocks to doing so, the visual clutter that I mentioned for example,.

[Zebulous.2934]

A game can be satisfying to play, but boring to watch.  For me I prefer to play Gw2 zoomed out so that I can see approaching threats.  That would make it difficult to see character detail or attack animations. 

A game with fewer classes would be easier for a viewer to keep track of what is going on.  A player may find fewer options less satisfying.

It would also depend on the streamer.  The guy in the OP example is managing to entertain a few hundred people while standing still in the game and auto attacking.  He must be rather charismatic as a person in real life.

Edited June 16 by Zebulous.2934

[Farohna.6247]

1 minute ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Sure, and that is why I said, "some," not all points and why I said ignoring the details to focus on his overall point. Overall the point is about using Twitch to increase visibility of the game. There are roadblocks to doing so, the visual clutter that I mentioned for example,.

I read that, and I thought it was generous of you to look at the overall picture.  The details kind of ruin any suggestions, along with novella length paragraphs.  The visual clutter is certainly a factor.  

1 hour ago, Omega.6801 said:

This seems to be a very special idea for you as you bring it up every few weeks. I'm doing something now that I usually strongly advise against, I will speak for non-me people when I say: NO ONE WANTS THIS OUTSIDE OF YOU (please if anyone but OP wants this correct me).

I'll second this.  No one wants this except OP, it sounds absolutely dreadful and nothing fun about it.  Like a nasty practical joke that only the perpetrator finds funny.  

[costepj.5120]

8 hours ago, eriniy.8607 said:

For example, let the GMs come to the city and kill everyone.

OP would have loved playing in Lornar's Pass during the original LS1. Every failed Marionette would have had them laughing themselves silly.

[Zera.9435]

Twitch IS NOT a measure of a game's success. Games are meant to be played, not watched. Twitch does NOT matter.

[Poormany.4507]

OP desperately needs a TLDR at the end because there's too many random details so the point they're trying to make isn't clear at all. First half seems to be requesting better streaming from GW2 (?) and the second half seems like a list of random, unrelated complaints (?).

I rarely watch streamers (Mostly WP) and could care less how many viewers they have because (1) its much more dependent on the streamer's quality than the actual game's quality and (2) I would rather play and experience the game myself than watching some rando (often with annoying/poor quality commentary/narration) play it.

Edited June 16 by Poormany.4507

[babak.3654]

I'm not a streamer and my preference is to play games myself rather than watch other people do so. That said, when I do look at Twitch, I don't watch GW2: the game is a visual mess sometimes even when you are actively playing it, and consequently is not satisfying to watch. That's before you get into it being a niche as others have said. Has the game ever had good viewer numbers?

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Chat gpt found the forum again. 

[starlinvf.1358]

On 6/16/2024 at 9:31 AM, babak.3654 said:

I'm not a streamer and my preference is to play games myself rather than watch other people do so. That said, when I do look at Twitch, I don't watch GW2: the game is a visual mess sometimes even when you are actively playing it, and consequently is not satisfying to watch. That's before you get into it being a niche as others have said. Has the game ever had good viewer numbers?

If I were a streamer, I’d just other peoples streams and occasionally grunt in agreement. Top tier content. 

[Nash.2681]

On 6/16/2024 at 5:14 AM, Poormany.4507 said:

OP desperately needs a TLDR at the end because there's too many random details so the point they're trying to make isn't clear at all. First half seems to be requesting better streaming from GW2 (?) and the second half seems like a list of random, unrelated complaints (?).

I rarely watch streamers (Mostly WP) and could care less how many viewers they have because (1) its much more dependent on the streamer's quality than the actual game's quality and (2) I would rather play and experience the game myself than watching some rando (often with annoying/poor quality commentary/narration) play it.

OP desperatly needs a life...

4 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Chat gpt found the forum again. 

At least ChatGPTs wouldn't make so many spelling errors making this mashed up, inconsistent, weird wall of text even harder to read...

[kiroho.4738]

On 6/15/2024 at 2:49 PM, eriniy.8607 said:

I wached 25 years ols mmorpg on twich right now.The number of players watching the game was 347 and I have never played the game and I do not plan to play it.I came across it randomly and since I was in my own language, I continued watching even though GW2 was open in the background.Nothing was interesting to play or looked good.The stremer was standing in an area on a horse and constantly killing the wolves that came towards him.He continued to do this non-stop and was talking to viewers like me.The purpose of doing this is to earn money in the game and for this, he farms by staying in the same place for 8 hours a day and broadcasting it gets an average of 200-500 views.While watching, I asked him why he was playing that game when there were many games with new and more advanced mechanics.I said that new mmorpg games have better graphics and better mechanics.Instead of answering me, he asked me what game I was playing.He told me he had never heard of GW2.I told him that GW 2 is very crowded and popular and that it is one of the top three most popular mmorpg games.During the broadcast, he was talking about paying $300 for some items in the game, and several people in the chat started bargaining to buy the game-specific items he was selling.So the game is a pay and win game. The more money you spend, the stronger you become and even if you do PvP, you win with items.Also, when I did a short research, I learned that the company itself sold cheats in order to prevent cheating and hacking in the game, and that a man from my country became rich by selling the hacked super powerful items of the game secretly from the company during the 10 years he worked for the company.In summary, the game is perhaps one of the worst online MMORPGs that can be played.

So why is this twitch streamer so watched even though it is a very small streamer by its own definition and the history of this game is truly terrible?When he said he hadn't heard of GW2, he looked at the number of views on Twitch and said, "No one is watching it. Very few people must really be playing the GW2 game.I said that the games are actually very crowded, but there are never many viewers on Twitch.They didn't believe it 😄

That's right, now this means there is a huge problem in GW2.Many gamers and streamers decide whether to play or not to play the game by looking at the number of views. Especially when it is an MMORPG, all players try to understand whether the game is crowded or not by looking at the number of views on Twicih.There is something that can be done about this. If the number of viewers increases, the number of players will increase. As the number of players increases, the game will attract more and more players. Since both the company earns more money and the company earns more money, we will receive more content. So, everyone will be happy.A mmorpg I used to play used a different tactic in this regard and the number of views could be around 80,000 on Twitch.First of all, every viewer earns in-game rewards as they watch. The producers themselves broadcast about the game every week and sit in front of us and show us which bugs they fixed this week, the pictures the players made about the game, the designs of the players' houses and guilds in the game, and choose the best ones by the votes of the viewers.Every week, they hold a lottery among the viewers and give a big gift, like our gem, with an average value of around 100 dollars, to one player.Then they leave the broadcast by handing it over to one of the normal official broadcasters. But they tell us what they did that week, what they have planned, and the audience can talk to them directly.

In the game, first of all, you can face many difficulties both with crowded groups as in other morphs, and on your own.

1-One of the reasons why we don't watch GW2 is that there is no event like a crowded raid in PVP.So a pvp like 15 vs 15 or 20 vs 20 is required.

2-1vs1 ranked pvp required.Very talented players should be able to rise and broadcast this without being dependent on other players.

3-Single player fractal, strike and raids are required.Instead of these, something new, such as a tower, can be added to it and the players can be in a way that becomes more difficult as the floors increase.

4-GW2 is a complex game and viewers often may not understand what is happening.You don't want to watch something you don't understand.For this reason, single player or new PVP sections to be added to the game should be designed to be simpler and understandable by the audience.

5-Those who work for A-net, the designers of the game, the graphics and the voice-over artists should publish a collective broadcast.They should do this constantly, like the game I described above.GW2 staff should engage in dialogue with the players.

6-Advertising should be done, this will help the game attract more players, and more money can be made by taking advantage of the player base when a new mmorpg is made in the future.

7-GW2 staff should create Memes  and joke items related to the game, this kind of thing spreads too fast.

8-Add something different to the game, such as skyscale wars PVP. In other words, do things that will surprise everyone. For example, let the GMs come to the city and kill everyone.

To break this huge wall of text down to 10 words: OP's "problem" is that GW2 is no popular streaming game.

That's nothing new.
GW2 always was a "play the game" game rather than a "watch the game" game.
"Surprises" like killing everyone on a town (how funny) or Anet creating memes won't change that.

It's just is what it is. And I personally think it's fine that people rather play the game themself instead of watching others playing it.

Edited June 17 by kiroho.4738
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