Janthir Wilds Spear Beta Event Feedback: Warrior [Merged]

[Kitty.4806]

If the spear isn't going to be reimagined at this point, please just remove the idea and give us no weapon at all. I seriously mean it. This is just sad. right now it's just going to be another bait weapon for inexperienced players to fail by taking.

[erapago.4387]

It really does feel like Rifle doesn't it. 

[oscuro.9720]

My opinion is that This weapon is close but improperly tuned. I’m fine with the muted effects, that’s more my style. I don’t find it boring either, personally. Here’s my feedback:

The good:

Maiming spear (spear 3) is beautifully tuned, smooth, and an extremely useful.

The harrier toss cover is BEAUTIFUL. It functions exactly like you want an evade to function. Really phenomenal work, the sustain for a damage-only weapon is exponentially higher because of how beautifully these two iframes function. Given that is the most screwed up thing on most weapons, I really cannot praise that enough.

The bad: 

The damage is low. However, with 20 might and landing all skills, the damage is just actually good. Here are my recommendations for the damage.

Skill 1: Add might to this skill. Allowing might stacking with the auto will help increase the damage of the kit as a whole. Enough to maintain somewhere around 6-8 might stacks. 

Skill 2: Remove the radius scaling on this one. It doesn’t even conceptually make sense since the spear is being thrown vertically. 300 radius all around. The initial strike is already incredibly hard to land because it takes so long, the second hit is borderline impossible.
Secondly, add might to the second strike per target struck. 3 might per target struck. Again, I think increasing the base values is a problem given stacking ALL multipliers and might is a problem, but making might gen easier is a good way to build in both more utility and damage into the kits. It feels fitting as well. 

Skill 4: More damage or quickness per enemy struck. This is a hard to land skill shot. It needs more payout. 

Skill 5: I’ll address that in the “ugly” section because you already know the problem.

Harrier toss: I once again request might. 5 might. This skill really doesn’t do enough damage for its difficulty, but it’s also covered. 5 might would help this kit really generate some might which makes it significantly better. I want to say again that this skills evade frame is beautifully implemented. 

Th Ugly:

Skill 5: This not hitting moving targets is pretty much inexcusable. Especially when there are other skills like this that hit just fine.

If this skill hits, Spear’s damage potential goes from horrible to solid. Add might and it is a good weapon, especially with all of warriors trait potential with might.

I hope you all will take the time to read this, I believe spear is close, but needs these rather minimal adjustments to really become a solid primary choice. 

[fedorov.1480]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Wow. I'm going to keep it clean, but let me say that this is a disappointment, second only to the June 28th 2022 banner 'Rework' and that was so bad that Anet had to publicly apologize.

@Roy Marks.7689, @Cal Cohen.2358, @Trig.5103, guys this is pretty bad. I don't want to completely disparage your work, so I'll start with the good things.

• Evades on Core F1 and Spear 3. Those are nice. Real nice. Once the rest of the kit is fixed these will stand out as amazing.
• Potential for pulsing damage from range. This was missing, and when fixed it will be great and allow for great gameplay.

That's where the positives end though. The best way I can describe this weapon is that it is mediocre at everything and great at nothing. That is a design problem. There is a lot that is wrong, but since I believe that the overall design is baked in at this point, I'm going to give you feedback and advice on how to make it function given it's current state.

• It does to little damage overall. This is especially bad since Rifle, one of the worst ranged weapons in the game, is consistently better at the job from further range.
• This mixed melee and range abilities rob the weapon of an identity leaving it disjointed.
• The lack of boons is detrimental.
• The radius on some of the abilities make thing functionally useless in PvP/WvW.

All that considered, this weapon will be dead on arrival in all game modes unless some serous changes are made before release. Given the above points, and that I think the design is mostly set, the feedback I can give to you to save this weapon is as follows:

• Mighty Throw: Remove the mixed range functionality, make the melee range version the version at all ranges. Give it might on hit for 5s. Speed up the velocity on the throw by 25%. The damage is on the low end, but with removing the mixed range mechanic it becomes an AoE at range, so that is balanced.
• Maiming Spear: Make the after shock radius 240-300 radius at all range increments, not sure which works best, but it should be able to strike a target running with swiftness. I strongly advise you to put fury on it, 4s is enough in PvP/WvW and 6s in PvE. The 120 radius will never catch an enemy running at max range. Consider decreasing the time from the spear launch to the spear's landing, but that is lower priority over the change in shock radius. Lastly, either remove the ground targeting or remove the LOS requirement.
• Spear Swipe: As is, this runs counter to the design of the rest of the weapon, but since I am advising to remove the melee dependence this skill is mostly fine. You could even turn it into a 900 range launch. There is some desire for a meaningful launch to be added back into warrior for PvE, again though, if you follow my advice on nixing the melee dependence on the kit this is lower priority.
• Disrupting Throw: This is supposed to be an interrupt, but the 3/4s cast time, travel speed, and ground targeting stop that from functionally happening outside of breakbars. Reduce to a 1/4s cast, double the projectile velocity, and remove the ground targeting. If I'm trying to interrupt something important, lining up the ground target will waste precious reaction time. This is a good skill in theory, but it is heavily crippled by it's implementation.
• Spearmarshal's Support: This was the biggest disappointment. Remove the mixed range element, make it 1/2s delay at all ranges for consistency. Either speed up the impact of the spears so that they hit a running target, or increase the radius on the strikes to 240, which ever is easier for you to do. Otherwise this skill is absolutely useless outside of stationary bosses, it cannot hit a moving target as it is right now, see the video from @Captain Crapface.7528 above for evidence of that.
• Harrier's Toss: Ele Spear 2 on fire is the same animation, but mobile. Port that mobility to this skill, otherwise anyone who uses it is asking to get spiked upon landing. Make the damage the T3 version at all tiers all game modes, have it grant self quickness on hit that increases based on adrenaline spent, 3s/4s/5s. The tool tip is also bugged and never shows the damage increase at higher tiers.
• Wild Throw: This takes too long to cast. Make each hit happen at 1/4s intervals leaving the total cast time at 1.75s before after casts. Other than that I think it will work fine. Putting a projectile block on it might be needed, keep an eye on that.
• Overall: Having 1 skill at 1200 range and the rest at 900 is bad. Consider making them all 1200 range. Warrior does throw with a strong arm after all, so it would make sense.
• Lastly, since I am advising to get rid of the mixed range functionality as a mechanic, let me propose Maiming Spear's Shockwave to recharge Spearmarshal's Support when it strikes a crippled target. This will help with the poor adrenaline gain.

Thank you for hearing this feedback. I am under no illusion that you will use any of it, but please listen to the collective feedback, and implement as much as you can, because as I said, this weapon as it stands is completely dead on arrival, mostly from the mixed range elements, the poor execution time on some strikes, and the important skills being able to be merely walked out of. As is, functionally only the AA, Spear 3, and  F1's work at all in real use cases, and F1 will be dodgy against good players and Spear 3 makes the rest of your skills worse after using it.

Agree with so much of the above, just some thoughts as an long time WVW player.   What I personally wanted was a fast hitting hybrid weapon with a lot of bleeds or poison or torment, it could have been full melee or range and I would have been happy.   Think of the game of thrones guy if melee.  The mix of skills right now are quite a mess...

My main issues are:

The weapon has zero identity, no special mechanic, no blocks, no real mobility, no boons,  no meaningful conditions, no flip over skills, no ammo skills, and not many reasons to use over bow or rifle. 

The evade on burst locks you in place so you just die when you land since you have no defenses on the weapon

The autos just get reflected in melee range, weak damage and they do nothing else

The aoe on #2 does nothing really, weak damage

The evade on #3 a lot of times will put you out of range so the push back hits nothing

On #4 I have to guess where the target will be in 2 seconds??  Almost impossible to land.  Also it misses A LOT, flies over people's heads or misses on uneven terrain.

#5 players can just walk away and all of the hits will miss........

What I would like:

Autos:  Make them 1200 range and If I'm going to throw a spear that breaks and splinters, would it at least apply bleeds??  Needs to switch to melee like ranger's spear.

#2  This aoe could possibly daze or immobilize on the aftershock, or 2 aftershocks?  As of right now it's very weak and too slow to hit. 

#3   Hate this skill tbh, make it a pull instead of a push or instead of an evade make it a reflect, or make it push at the start of the skill and give it a follow up skill to leap to target or a follow up ranged attack.

#4  Make this skill much faster to cast, make it target based rather than in a line so I don't have to guess where the target will be.

#5  Increase the radius to 240, make it aoe, make it apply bleeds and cripple or something.   You do know people can just walk away from it and it misses.

Core Burst:  ELIMINATE the stuck in place evade, let me move just like when full countering.  Needs more than just some damage, can it daze or burn or something?

Zerker Burst:  Worse version of sword burst but seems fine, can shoot backwards and tracks in stealth like sword so that's good.

 

Who knows if anyone will read this but some of the staff changes I did recommend below were implemented:

Balanced strike, Reverse strike, Inspiring whirl (autos):

 

Instead of regen on Inspiring whirl, make it heal for a static amount (500ish).  Regen is already on the bursts no need for both.

 

Line Breaker #3:
 

Where to start....no one likes the ally targeting especially on a melee spec, or the slow buggy 1200 "dash" that misses most of the time.  I can see ally targeting on a range weapon but not here.   I'd rather it just be one enemy target skill but having all the boons, heal, damage, unblockable, stun break, and debuffs would be too much on one skill as is.  If combined lower the heal and damage numbers some as well as the unblockable and stun break.  I'd like to see the cd lowered to 15secs in wvw as well.

[TylkoDemon.6421]

I did some testing on WvW Roaming and PvE, and if nothing is changed about this weapon, I can tell you that nobody will use it in any builds you would normally expect from people playing WvW, Raids, or Strikes. 

 

Tldr, I can now only see it being used by people who just don't know any better builds/just started, or completely don't care about what's happening on screen and expect their squad to carry them.

 

So, as for VFXs, it's a meh.
It needs to be said that it's an absolutely personal thing, and some may even say it's good enough. But compared to what every single character got, it's a disappointment. 

I could agree that this choice to keep the VFXs and animations to a bare minimum was to stay as close, to the primitive uga buga warrior style that just hits stuff with anything they have in hands at the time. 

But while it might be the case, just looking at what any other spec got, I just feel jealous and sad and don't know how is this supposed to get new or returning players excited about.

All you do is pew-pew at the target with  'generic_ground_explosions.vfx' type of stuff.

 

As for Animations and SFXs themself, I think that they're good enough. But that might be because there is not much going around to begin with.

 

But these are the smaller issues, and my main issue is the DPS.

I won't go into the details about every single ability and what it does wrong, figure something out yourself.

In the end, what matters is that the DPS is just a joke. The fact that this weapon does not provide any boons to your party and is another power weapon just makes the joke even better. Absolutely no reason to replace any of your weapons in any of your warrior builds.

 

In WvW, I can see some random troll builds that can go for this spear to have a little bit of fun, but that's until the enemy decides to get serious and had enough of  your pew-pewing.

 

While I'm no pro, and actually I might be a complete noob in these things. I can easily pull 30k DPS on my gs/axe-axe berserker build (fingers hurt after doing all wings or strikes tho, and these builds should be closer to 37k :D). I couldn't reach even 20k after replacing primary or secondary weapons for this spear.

DPS might not be all there is, but what else does this spear do? It does not apply any boons to your party or even yourself, it does not provide you with any movement abilities to escape from difficult situations, even tho it has a small dash backward with knockback? And so what's left is two spells that do some break bar damage, how nice...

About the Spear Swipe, why is it here? What for? If to increase the distance between you and the enemy player, then too bad because every spec you will be fighting against is bloated with a kitten ton of utility that will render this ability useless. At the point where you need to use this spell, I bet that you're already dead anyway. An ability that will be more useful in its place is something closer to Savage Leap which actually helps you escape, and is probably the only reason you would use the sword as a primary with the secondary weapon you actually care about, which is the war horn (or shield, depends :D).

It would be better to replace it with another damage-focused ability because as for a 2-handed warrior weapon, it really does nothing.

 

All in all, this weapon does not trade DPS for Utility or Mobility, or Vice Versa. It's mediocre in every aspect, and it's hard to justify using it in any game mode.

 

I'm looking forward to any changes, but things are not looking great. Especially for a weapon that is supposed to be one of the main things the new expansion is supposed to bring. Being in such a position, it's normal we expect something more special than this.

 

[Shagie.7612]

Gonna go against the grain a bit here. I actually quite like the visuals. Harrier's Toss and Wild Throw's skill icon colors being the inverse of the regular spear skills is weird though. Hope they're just placeholders.

I don't even think the design of the weapon kit is awful. You can about face everything but the auto attack.
Some improvements to the tracking on 5, maybe some larger radii for the aoes and it'd be kinda nice. Very possible to give it a teamfighting niche.

I'm not sure what to do with Wild Throw, I don't think you can put an evade (unless it's not for the full duration), daze (gunflame), or projectile deletion (flaming flurry) on it, but it doesn't feel very good losing the evade from the regular burst when that's clearly a significant part of the weapon's defensive capabilities.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

In case Spear 3 gets changed, thanks to the animator that made the animation for that, you were the only person out of everyone who worked on Warrior Spear to put your soul into your work. It looks amazing.

Spear 3 is very nice. It just doesn't vibe with the rest, and it isn't spear swipe's fault. It's the weird melee boosts on a ranged weapon.

[UsagiShinobi.2597]

I'm not a PvP/WvW player so this is entirely from a PvE perspective -- though, seeing the complaints about 5 not hitting regular running opponents, 4 being useless on moving targets, etc. is still a thing in PvE. Sure, most PvE balance is based around raids and strikes, but I tested 5 on an open-world enemy... they literally outran the spears as they charged me!

I'm a Warrior main. I'm enough of a Warrior main that I even like the underpowered parts of the kit -- hell, I played with a Stance Rifle build for a while just because I'm certifiably insane (cue at least one "confused" reaction to this post as a result of me saying that). And as I see it, I have to agree with the other folks here -- what is spear bringing to the table? 900 range power DPS that can't out-DPS rifle, brings no boons, no ammo skills like other ranged weapons, and seems to be entirely designed around stacking on a commander during a raid. If I have to DPS, I'll bring A/A. If I have to CC, I'd rather switch to M/M or even hammer rather than fiddle with a line target. If I need ranged for the rare moments that I can't get into melee, I'll do what melee-only Warriors have always done and sit there with a thumb up my butt until a melee-moment presents itself (as much as I weirdly enjoy rifle, I wouldn't be caught dead bringing it to an actual squad). I feel like that's where some of this weapons (lacking) identity falls -- as a failsafe "I need a ranged weapon because melee isn't viable" tool, like how Gunblade got it's ranged attacks added in. But sadly it doesn't do that.

Here's my two cents: if it's going to be a 900 range weapon, lean into the mid-line skirmisher role rather than a weird pseudo-melee-but-not-really thing. Some folks joked here about taking ranger and slapping that onto Warrior but... heck, look at our other ranged weapons: A slow clumsy Power weapon that I love the same way a mother loves an ugly child, and a Condi weapon that is also slow and clumsy and is relegated to melee-range condizerker builds and little else.

So if we're keeping the 900 range and not making it 1200, forcing us to get in closer and take initial potshots from ranged foes:

• Remove the damage scaling for close range, and up the damage overall. Make it strong at all ranges, so at least when I'm doing a Strike/Raid and I'm in a situation where I can't be in melee, I don't feel like I'm shooting spitballs.
• Up the attack speed (which would help with the DPS). Not just the autoattack but all of them, especially the egregious 3/4 cast time on 4 which relegates it to only hitting stationary breakbar targets. I realize making the speed faster could look strange for a throwing animation, but a little extra speed can go a long way.
• Though, speaking of animations, please make the Primal Burst skill not just the Ranger Axe 5 animation. It looks really silly if we're tossing spears.
• Remove the delays from 2 and 5, so it feels more responsive.
• Make 4 a tracking shot rather than a line strike. If it's going to be a targeted line, see the point below.
• If it's going to have AoEs, they should be bigger and faster to strike. If they're going to be slow, they should be like Dragonhunter where they are large projectiles that provide some other benefit. With 4's line attack, if its going to be a ground target, then make the AoE wider or make it unblockable because even as a non-PvP/WvW player, I know that slow daze projectile is just begging to be dodged, deleted, or reflected!
• If the "this is better in melee" is removed, then the Dodge/CC will be fine rather than antithetical to the identity of the weapon. Otherwise, make it a standing evade or a block combined with a knockdown, so you're not moving further away and still get CC.
• Add flanking bonuses like Ranger Shortbow to make it feel less like a clunky long-ranged weapon and more like a mid-ranged skirmishing tool. If this will be a power weapon, make it so it grants Boons (see the point below) rather than conditions like the aforementioned Ranger SB.
• Boons, please, for the love of god. Not even might on the auto? If this is going to have an identity based on GW1 Paragons, this should provide boons. A mid-line skirmisher boon support ranged weapon, far enough away to avoid melee cleave but close enough to grant boons to allies would be delightful. Fury, Might, Swiftness at the minimum.
• Don't root us in place with any of the attacks or bursts. Let us be mobile at all times with this thing. Rifle's Burst can kind of get away with the root because it's 1500 range and a tracking shot. The Evade on the burst is a mere bandaid over this wound.

A mid-ranged skirmishing power boon weapon would make it much more in line with the GW1 Paragon aesthetic (and would also pair well with Staff).

... And even if all my suggestions seem like nonsense... at least just up the damage by a lot. Please. If it does significantly more damage than rifle then it'll at least feel like a passable, if uninspired, mid-range weapon. Theres a ton of potential here that feels utterly underpowered, as if the dev team is afraid of making it good.

[quake.9023]

so boring.  skill 5 should increase aoe and  burst on target instead of trill

maybe add cripple 3sec or immo 1 sec on skill 2 or 4

add blind to skill 3 on original position aoe 180, have second skill that is leap combo back into original position 180aoe with resistance 3 sec

add 1might skill 1 on second auto, 1 vulne on 3rd auto

Edited Friday at 03:48 AM by quake.9023

[SentriX.3209]

Did some testing yesterday and it feels like hot garbage. The mechanic is completely redundant, you should keep the damage as it is and buff it as you get it closer to the enemy and the swipe should become a gap closer...like a giga stab into the earth which would fit the warrior thematically.

[Kodashy.4589]

I know is basic, but as a person that does not play Warrior, and wanted to play it in open world... the 900 range feels sad... I would totally play it if it was 1200. 

[Warrior.9487]

I don't think that more feedback is needed here. As I can read, everything is already written from someone.

I am just ones more unhappy that noone from the Devs is taking care about warrior. Just release something that we have something.

I guess the Devs did not one test against an moving enemy.

For me, the speer is one more weapon which we can wear as warrior but not use it.

Devs: Destroy Arc Divider cause of the too long cast time but lets add a new weapon with longer Cast times and self roots and place the skills on the ground as warrior..... Yes, we do so much dmg that we easy have time to plant skills on the ground...

 

Edited Friday at 07:36 AM by Warrior.9487

[Vigothoras.1274]

Most of my testing was experimentation on the dummy golem and like 20 min of just running around Verdant Brink. Never switched out of the default marauder gear. For reference, I've only been playing level 80 content for about 4 months with the vast majority of it being spent on solo PvE, fractals and meta events as warrior. I actively play and enjoy all warrior elite specializations but spellbreaker is the favourite.

TLDR: Currently, the spear doesn't add anything to Warrior as its role is pretty much identical to the notoriously bad rifle. While the weapon conceptually has a lot of flaws, I do not believe that it is unsalvagable. If significant changes are not made then I'll have no reason to pick up the expansion.

Aesthetics

• Not sure why the concept of spear thrower was tied to the warrior as pulling infinite spears out of your kitten is a pretty big immersion break for a profession who's identity is tied to the lack of magic. Compare this to say mesmer or revenant, who already set a precedent for lore-friendly means of conjuring weapons. While probably too late to change now, I would have preferred something more inspired by IRL spear fighting where the spear has higher base range than other melee weapons (say 200-300 instead of 130) and a kit built around keeping the enemy at max range through things like knockbacks, movement conditions and circumstantial damage boosts. This would create a distinct yet mechanically straightforward weapon that still encourages people to play a minigame.
• A big part of the draw of the warrior is IMO the chunky sound effects and currently the hit sound of most skills are barely audible when used beyond point blank range. Both burst and primal burst are just too silent in general and needs a large boost in volume. Wild Throws sounds are straight up overpowered by the passive burning noise from Berserk. While the choice of hit sound for Harrier's Toss is currently fine, I think it could be improved by changing it to something more akin to crashing thunder, such as the hammers Fierce Blow.
• Harrier's Toss needs more oomph. Outside the aforementioned audio change, i recommend significantly increasing jump height and projectile speed. The best effect could probably be accomplished by replacing the projectile animation entirely with a still smear frame.

Gameplay

• The spear doesn't do anything to meaningfully differentiate itself from the rifle, which is already in a sad state. As it is currently, I can't imagine myself running it in anything other than meme builds. If you insist on encouraging melee combat with a ranged weapon then I recommend giving some of the skills strong but brief boons within their AoE. This would grant the spear a more well defined niche and make the weapon choice for support warrior less set in stone.
• Solo play in the open world feels alright, but I consider this to be an extremely low bar.
• As others have mentioned, you're never going to intentionally get the daze off with Disrupting Throw. On top of suggestions to speed it up, also consider making it function like Disrupting Stab, wherein the daze always occurs but is significantly lengthened when disrupting enemy skills. This would make it to play more consistently with traits that trigger off of disables. Another method of upping the skills reliability that I haven't seen mentioned is making the hitbox thicker, but I feel like this would make the skill's identity less distinct.
• Spear Swipe feels awful. The spear, as well as warrior's general kit encourages you to get up close so having mandatory button space dedicated for running away feels extremely counterproductive and can easily get you killed if fat fingered. I despise the Brutal Shot for the same reason and is pretty much why I refuse to touch rifle. Making Spear Swipe a gap closer or a directional dash would round the kit out far better and give it better synergy with the warrior's other weapons.
• The spear was able to (barely) keep pace with the Greatsword on golem DPS tests (Power Berserker using default beta build. Only change is GS versus Spear). This strikes me as weird because both weapons pretty much only provide damage and GS is melee. I'd say that this speaks more to the weakness of GS than the strength of Spear.
• I was never able to get something resembling half-decent DPS on anything other than Berserker (possibly a skill issue) but this is a REALLY bad sign considering the Spellbreaker is tied to a faction with spear as their signature weapon. Other than generic numerical increases, my recommendations for buffs is to give Harrier's Toss a knockback AoE (Either away from the epicenter or away from the warrior). This would drastically strengthen the identity of the spear's signature skill , allow it to compete with hammer as a CC weapon and isolate buffs to the build that I'd argue is the professions weakest. The spear has a similar projectile size to a ballista, make it feel like you're getting hit by one.
• This is mostly a QoL thing but look over the ordering of the skills again. Warrior's only other backwards dodge is tied to 4 so it should switch places with Disrupting Throw, as it is currently the warrior's only aimed 4 skill (assuming that nothing is reworked). Keeping Spear Swipe at 3 is fine if it's changed into a directional dodge as it's consistent with Line Breaker and Whirlwind Attack.

Edited Friday at 08:35 AM by Vigothoras.1274
Removed grammar mistakes and changed sentence structure to improve clarity.

[Napster.8290]

So after a good night rest I fired up my computer and made a quick sketch for skill ideas. Maybe there are some interesting thoughts for the community and maybe also the devs @Cal Cohen.2358? Nothing too polished, this took me literally 5min after logging in in Guild Wars 1. 

 

Paragon skills are just a great basis for warrior skills, yet we got almost none of them 😄 Gotta say again, Spear #3 is good! Keep it. Improve it.

 

Yall check this out, what do you think of these ideas?

Paragon skill ideas for GW2 (Skill numbers are random and in no particular order)

[Myror.7521]

To make me also speak here. Spear feels totaly garbage ..... it not only got no self boons or self sustain it also has totaly garbage dmg (and also its ccs are not good in any sence). This weapon need a rework in nearly all sence to see any use ^^

[Dirame.8521]

Loving the War Spear. Love its synergy with SpellB.

The skills seem to bleed into each other really nicely as well. Something that Engie spear doesn't have. I simply go 3-5-4-2 and it just smooth as butter. Love it.

Any of the good changes that the guys want above would be nice but as for me, I am happy.

Edited Friday at 10:18 AM by Dirame.8521

[Snowskau.4369]

What warrior needs is not a ranged weapon that does what rifle and bow already do. What warrior needs is a condi melee alternative to sword.
Greatsword does power only. Hammer does power only. Staff does power only. Both axes do power only. Both maces do power only. Both daggers do power only. Shield and pistol do power only. Gunsaber does power only. Why on earth does spear also do power only?
Condi berserkers have been "stuck" on sword+torch in PvE since HoT. You'd maybe grab offhand sword in PvP. The profession lacks a 2H condi weapon for close range.
I can't expect you to rework spear into a melee weapon at at this point, even if just to give it a melee auto chain in close range like some other spears you just made (which would better fit the theme of being more dangerous at close range), but at least you could give spear skills some condi damage effects, which would make up for the underwhelming strike damage.

[Kunavi.2407]

I tried to remain positive after an initial post before they demonstrated spears on stream, but both the presentation and now testing, confirmed more or less what I was expecting from spears, as far as warrior is concerned.

A couple of clarifications before I share my thoughts and opinions

I'd also like to say that I'm examining the weapon in a vacuum; As such, I'll be ignoring any arguements absolving the spear of its flaws, based solely on the fact that the class has no viable ranged options... Save perhaps for the bow as Condi Zerker or WVW/PVP rifle.

In fact, it's worth stating that I'll only be talking about PVE.

I'll also be ignoring any arguements in the vein of "But it's Fantasy/Magical" and "That weapon already does so and so and no one bats an eye". I can suspend my disbelief and I can swallow certain things but both only to a degree, even in a fantasy setting. Specifically only up to the point where things start looking like Looney Tunes, being outright silly or unintentionally comedic. More on that down below.

One last thing- Anything I've left out or don't talk about here, I either didn't notice or probably actually like, in which case I have no reason to mention it. I'm weird like that.

 

Function

I feel making spears ranged on warrior specifically is a waste, because all they have to offer could easily be adapted for the rifle and bow, making these options more appealing and viable. The abilities on spears seem to fit the other weapons much better, the rifle in particular, including visually and thematically.

My ambitious hope was that we would get an acrobatic melee tool kit, based partially on FFXIV's Dragoon, revolving around opening or closing distance quickly by dashing in and out which would change how abilities work, depending on that- Perhaps even dictate whether they'd be ranged or melee, based on distance. I was also hoping blocking would change abilities similarly, allowing perhaps for counter strikes or utility.

I initially imagined(And hoped beyond hope) that the core game play would consist of utilizing either a back dash or a gap close, which then transform the rest of the tool kit accordingly. A separate block would also change abilities into a couple of defensive follow up options such as CC and perhaps a heavy hitting counter depending on the circumstance.

This game play would be true to the warrior theme, exhibit martial prowess and athleticism, as well as heavy hitting landings after an impressive leap and it would provide spectacle through animation, sound and feeling more than visual effects as per the established identity of the class, at least as I understand it or perceive it if you will.

Which brings us to...

 

Poor Visuals

I don't expect warrior weapons and abilities to be like the 4th of July in terms of spectacle, in my mind they're likely meant to impress through the weight of their animation, sound and feeling when used, as well as the effect they have on a target. Spears, and in particular used at range, are too bare from any distinct effects that would quickly and easily identify them as warrior weapons.

This is a good opportunity to touch on a relevant matter, that of projectiles not sharing the same model and effects as the weapon wielded- As an example, one may be wielding any non Legendary GS, yet the projectile GS thrown is a plain basic GS. It's one of those little things I'd like to see changed along with hair working with hats, cosmetics for kits(By which in this case I mean the Gun-Saber, the Engineer Grenade Launcher or Flamer models and so on)... But to bring it back to the spear, the issue is exponentially worse as the projectile model is heavily featured.

 

Poor Animations

Whilst one or two throwing animations would have a place as part of a more diverse pool of abilities, the limited ways in which one can throw a spear definitely hold the weapon back. The whole kit being comprised of throwing animations definitely challenged ANet because of that, and they didn't overcome that challenge in any interesting way if at all, save for some quite ridiculous looking animations. Take for example the Primal Burst for it; I can't suspend my disbelief when I see that go off, especially.

Making a bare minimum effort where animations would adapt to distance from a target, even if only visually, could have alleviated this issue a little but even that is absent- And "A little" won't cut it any more, if ANet wants to put their best foot forward with SOTO and beyond.

 

Poor Audio

Throughout my testing, I barely noticed any distinct or interesting sound effect. There's nothing unique about the spear in that regard, there's a distinct lack of On-Hit sound effects that would indicate any significant impact excepting perhaps 1 or 2 abilities- The names of which I can't bother to learn since the weapon is forgettable in every way. I don't have much to add specifically about sound, criticizing it for being as good as absent should suffice.

This isn't to say that the effects are of bad quality or that they don't work, but rather that they don't stand out at all, giving us one less reason to care for this weapon in its current iteration.

 

Uniqueness/Identity

Disappointingly, nothing in particular screams "Warrior" about spears. There's not much else to say, except perhaps that the most distinctive or memorable ability that could save spears from being pointless(No pun intended) is Primal Burst- And Primal Burst, looks horrible in every single way and is the main culprit for how comically poor spears are. The animation, the way the projectiles form almost a beam of brown wood fired at a target... I'm not a fan and that's sadly the most original and innovative ability in the tool kit... Which speaks volumes in regards to the whole matter.

 

Numbers, DPS, Complexity ETC

At the moment, spears realistically only fit Zerker or Spell Breaker, in my opinion Zerker would be the better fit. As such, they compete with GS.

GS on warrior, especially Zerker, works well enough to not warrant considering spears save for the novelty of them being ranged(Which as I've made clear, I personally find redundant as there are rifles and bows which would benefit from inheriting current spear abilities and function)... To which, I have to once more say that I feel they shouldn't be, not strictly at least.

As mentioned earlier, there are only so many ways one can throw a spear and still have them be distinct and interesting. ANet in their effort to combat that, have made some of the abilities function much less optimally. As such, when using a spear, at least a couple of its abilities can't really be used as part of any solid rotation which in turn means less time spent on the weapon, bland game play and perhaps not really competitive results, considering the alternatives.

GS suffers from the same problem to a degree, as only Primal Burst, 100 Blades and BladeTrail are optimal. The difference lies in that GS's other abilities are in fact fun to use and do offer utility in the form of movement. They also are interesting to see and definitely sound as they should. Spears have no such saving grace, for all the aforementioned reasons. That 2.5" Primal Burst is also not really ideal, all things considered...

 

Fun Factor/Moment to Moment/Feel

I'm biased- I like GW2's combat a lot, and as long as something works to the degree that I can tell, I'll be OK with it. Spears aren't broken, you press buttons and things happen. That's not much of a praise though... Nor a saving grace or redeemable quality.

The concept could work, perhaps on another more fitting class... The abilities could work, perhaps on a more fitting weapon that needs them. But... As it is, spear on warrior, as a ranged option specifically and with the present tool kit, is... Nothing. Or to be more accurate, it just is.

It exists, you'd be able to use it if it comes out and this is its final form(ANet please, don't do this), and while I'm not a fan of it being ranged I can't really do much else than state my dislike on the choice and grudgingly admit that it's yet another weapon, it works, and you can go Pew-Pew with it. So in that regard, it feels like literally EVERY other weapon, and is as fun to use(So barely), as using a weapon that has no identity can be.

If you've played any FPS, you can compare it to bland starting weapons in those, which you want to like but literally can't, and in your head you inadvertently speculate how it could have been viable or fun to use if some changes were made. In the case of spears on warrior, if they scrapped it and started over.

 

In Closing

I give spears on warriors a solid 2/10, which would have been 0/10 but they get 1 point for actually not being horribly broken(Not as in being OP or not, but literally working)... And another 1 point for demonstrating how rifle should have been. That said I'm also giving it -100 points for not being a melee or at least a hybrid weapon because that would have been my preference and I'd like to pound stuff to pulp after a mighty leap and fly through my enemies like a living plasma beam, kitten it. Final score, -98/10!

Thank you for reading if you did, if you're working for ANet and are responsible for spears on warrior, then please listen to the many good ideas people have put on the table for spears, including mine(I swear I'm not biased at all)... Or you'll be stabbing your self in the foot with a spear. #MeleeSpears! ;3

Edited Friday at 11:43 AM by Kunavi.2407
A minor correction...

[Nix Sandwich.3046]

Been playing warrior since forever and here's what I felt after using the Spear for a good amount of time since the beta started.

The spear animations feel slow and lack the impactful swings a Warrior typically utilizes.

The effects are also very minimal compared to other classes. It almost feels like all the budget went to the skill effects of other classes and warrior didn't get any. Haha!

While offering a ranged power option, the spear's damage and utility fall short compared to existing weapons like the Rifle.

For Berserker, Spellbreaker, and Bladesworn, it's difficult to find a situation where the spear would be a better choice than Greatsword/AxeAxe, Longbow/SwordSword, Hammer/DaggerAxe, or Sword/Pistol..

The spear has the potential to be an interesting addition for Warriors, but might benefit from increased damage, or perhaps giving boon? Perhaps a faster animation? The whole feel of the weapon felt underwhelming. 

Overall it felt like it BADLY needs some LOVE from Arenanet. 

[Ferus.3165]

Please let us move while using the burst skill. Give spear two and spear five a flashier animation (spear is really lacking the "wow that looks awesome" factor) and increase the aftershock damage on spear two significantly (like double the damage). Give spear five 1200 range, give it a bigger aoe and reduce the cast time of spear four and also increase the aoe of the projectile by a bit.

[Lonecap.4105]

It’s bad. It’s really, really bad. Like,  delete all skills and come up with a whole new weapon levels of bad.

And while you’re doing that, can the new spear design actually have cool animations like everyone else?

 

[OTheScientist.5742]

Some of my Feedback would be -
More Damage & Might Generation (or other boon)
Hefty Animations, I know warriors are the basic class, but you could give it more Athleticism. We've fought dragons and more we could at least throw these spears like we're shooting it out of a cannon. 
Weapon Mechanic is boring, I'm going to use a great sword or other melee if I'm that close to a target. I think committing to the Weapon Master Aspect to warrior would be nice! We could easily use it as a melee and ranged. Give us a flip over like Untamed hammer on all the skills and burst, so we can spice it up. I think doing this would let us feel like we're a weapon master on top, giving us more diverse options on situations.

If innovating isn't an option - 
Skill Five needs to actually hit moving targets
The jump back and evade skill is BAD - maybe giving it a jump back and pull would be better if you REALLY want us to be close to the target.
All the skill need to do more. Every other class has something going on, we have let me check - "cleave more targets the closer you are", We are also the class that can have a weapon swap in like 3–5 seconds, so why wouldn't I just bust out my Melee weapon to cleave that close. I think you either gotta make it the further you're away the better to cleave is or do something else entirely.
 

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

Maybe I'm just bored this morning.  But, going off of how I've heard Anet balances for large group events (players just auto attacking). I thought I'd share some AA numbers from the kitty golem, I know these are not rotations, but I think they should all be at least somewhat consistent.  I took the same build for all things (builds towards the bottom of the post, didn't quite do the Snow Crows setup). I did not farm the top crits, it was a 1 and done per weapon. I'll be ordering these from slowest to fastest.

DISCIPLINE

• LONGBOW (TTK 2:08:515) - https://dps.report/7igr-20240628-083232_golem
• STAFF (TTK 1:45:872) - https://dps.report/ahsr-20240628-083946_golem
• MACE/AXE (TTK 1:40:909) - https://dps.report/ZWjI-20240628-084626_golem
• SPEAR (TTK 1:39:197) - https://dps.report/mwal-20240628-082716_golem
• RIFLE (TTK 1:28:178) - https://dps.report/CkHQ-20240628-082929_golem
• HAMMER (TTK 1:20:677) - https://dps.report/9QhV-20240628-083704_golem
• GREATSWORD (TTK 1:18:313) - https://dps.report/hjqY-20240628-083508_golem
• AXE/AXE (TTK 1:17:806) - https://dps.report/9Yt3-20240628-084223_golem
• DAGGER/AXE (TTK 1:14:713) - https://dps.report/LdXg-20240628-084408_golem
• SWORD/AXE (TTK 1:08:750) - https://dps.report/XjrT-20240628-084817_golem

TACTICS

• LONGBOW (TTK 1:52:556) - https://dps.report/8Z0x-20240628-094817_golem
• STAFF (TTK 1:33:641) - https://dps.report/MKeb-20240628-094156_golem
• MACE/AXE (TTK 1:31:315) - https://dps.report/jrlQ-20240628-093533_golem
• SPEAR (TTK 1:27:31) - https://dps.report/YmNF-20240628-093155_golem
• RIFLE (TTK 1:18:2) - https://dps.report/Zk63-20240628-095010_golem
• HAMMER (TTK 1:11:282) - https://dps.report/wh27-20240628-094350_golem
• AXE/AXE (TTK 1:09:910) - https://dps.report/0voZ-20240628-093720_golem
• GREATSWORD (TTK 1:08:233) - https://dps.report/hRUr-20240628-094537_golem
• DAGGER/AXE (TTK 1:07:560) - https://dps.report/ssf7-20240628-093923_golem
• SWORD/AXE (1:02:357) - https://dps.report/HaZT-20240628-093326_golem

DISCIPLINE - [&DQIEHzMeEhVwAKcAswAAAKkAAACvAAAAnAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADWgAFAAkBAA==]
TACTICS - [&DQIEHws1EhVwAKcAswAAAKkAAACvAAAAnAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACVQAJAQA=]

No food (I'm lazy), running full berserkers with 3 assassin pieces (pants, boots, ring) to get me to 100.1% crit chance, dragon hunter runes, and force/accuracy sigils. Thief relic was a non factor since it was all auto attacks.
 

These are all just auto attacks, we haven't even factored in rate of attack and how fast you gain adrenaline and can then use bursts, which is where most of our damage comes from.

Edited Friday at 03:09 PM by Red Haired Savage.5430
Added the Tactics build

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

I see what anet was going for after playing glass spear. If I'm not wrong, it's just supposed to be a power ranged weapon that has more survivability and versatility than either rifle and longbow. It's a quasi blaster weapon with a few control skills.

I usually play glass ranged warrior, berserker stats rifle/longbow, and I thought from the previews spear would suck. But it seems to be oriented toward my playstyle lol.

[sherwinator.7954]

I think the entire kit just needs to be looked at again, the spear in it's current form has no redeeming qualities, low adrenaline generation, worse range and dps than rifle at range and worse dps than melee weps in melee range, no boons or sustain, no useful condi's for pve, animations leave something to be desired and the abilities are too hard to hit on anything moving, also the spear doesn't really fulfil the class fantasy at all or blend well with other weps.

Maybe give the warrior spear the ranger spear auto treatment where it swaps from a ranged to a melee version when within a certain range except do this for every warrior spear skill including the burst, and make the ranged version of skill 3 a gap closer with a daze or some other form of cc, Or maybe something akin to jayce's kit from league of legends where you can switch between a ranged and melee form by using skill 5 or something.

Edited Monday at 12:54 PM by sherwinator.7954