Flowing Water with Currents in Janthir Wilds

[Poormany.4507]

Has this mechanic been used in previous expansions? I honestly do not remember seeing actual flowing water with current physics that moves the player with them anywhere else in previous maps. Hint for a future underwater-based expac? I could see multiple masteries and/or jumping puzzles dealing with flowing water, currents, and water-based player movement.

[Chyro.1462]

Slightly off topic, but I still think underwater has so much untapped potential for a future expansion. Those new water physics could very well .. flow into that.

Reworking underwater weapons to make them fresh and fun to use. Maybe some core adjustments to how underwater combat works, whatever it is that makes it unpopular. And make every elite spec function underwater. There's also potential for another underwater mount that fills some different niche than Skimmer - especially in a future expansion that focuses on underwater content (not that all of it would have to be underwater though). For me it was so amazing when Gw2 released that you could not only dive underwater, but have full sets of skills and able to combat underwater. It's been largely untouched since then (just minor things like the swim speed infusions) and they could totally build on that.

Edited September 1 by Chyro.1462

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

They had the tech for moving characters in a direction that could be used anywhere including under water. The issue was that the tech to have swimming areas above the default map level is as recent as SotO. So it is possible we could get more dynamic underwater environments.

However, the currents have proved to be more annoying than fun with JW's fish adventures.

[Manpag.6421]

I feel like there have been some other niche horizontal movement areas before, but usually it's been wind or something rather than a water current. It's fun to see them playing with the tech now that they've figured out multiple water levels though; going up the waterfalls and into a vertical wall of water was trippy the first time I did it and realised what had happened. It's particularly interesting on siege turtle, because if you enter the water holding the jets you're technically flying underwater, and then you let go and underwater mechanics take over.

With how strong the current is, it's interesting that they didn't also reuse the intense gravity mechanic when standing beneath the Tears of Orr waterfall in Siren's Landing, but I guess it would mess with the Salmon Run that has you go upstream too much. I'm also not sad about it, because it is an annoying area.

[Danikat.8537]

I really like the new water mechanics, especially being able to swim at higher elevations and I'd like to see that added into older maps if possible. The currents might not work everywhere, but where it won't cause problems I'd like to see that added into older maps too.

[AliamRationem.5172]

6 hours ago, Chyro.1462 said:

Slightly off topic, but I still think underwater has so much untapped potential for a future expansion. Those new water physics could very well .. flow into that.

Reworking underwater weapons to make them fresh and fun to use. Maybe some core adjustments to how underwater combat works, whatever it is that makes it unpopular. And make every elite spec function underwater. There's also potential for another underwater mount that fills some different niche than Skimmer - especially in a expansion that focues on underwater content (not that all of it would have to be underwater though). For me it was so amazing when Gw2 released that you could not only dive underwater, but have full sets of skills and able to combat underwater. It's been largely untouched since then (just minor things like the swim speed infusions) and they could totally build on that.

Please no.  Underwater combat is a cool concept and I appreciate what they tried to do with it, but there's just no saving it.  It takes some of the best aspects of the gameplay (e.g. movement, combat) and makes them feel worse.  The last thing I want to see is more of a focus on underwater combat.

[Kulvar.1239]

6 hours ago, Chyro.1462 said:

Slightly off topic, but I still think underwater has so much untapped potential for a future expansion. Those new water physics could very well .. flow into that.

Reworking underwater weapons to make them fresh and fun to use. Maybe some core adjustments to how underwater combat works, whatever it is that makes it unpopular. And make every elite spec function underwater. There's also potential for another underwater mount that fills some different niche than Skimmer - especially in a expansion that focues on underwater content (not that all of it would have to be underwater though). For me it was so amazing when Gw2 released that you could not only dive underwater, but have full sets of skills and able to combat underwater. It's been largely untouched since then (just minor things like the swim speed infusions) and they could totally build on that.

I want legendary aquabreathers.

Mesmer Trident is the worst underwater weapon of all so yeah they need some rework.

Should there be something done with underwater mount, it should go on the turtle who's a waste in its current state.

[Chyro.1462]

2 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Please no.  Underwater combat is a cool concept and I appreciate what they tried to do with it, but there's just no saving it.  It takes some of the best aspects of the gameplay (e.g. movement, combat) and makes them feel worse.  The last thing I want to see is more of a focus on underwater combat.

But that's what I mean. If they fixed what made it bad and make it fun instead. If underwater combat becomes more mobile and dynamic? It would open so much possibilities for new content if they managed to turn underwater into an enjoyable experience. You're saying there's no saving it, but are you 100% sure it can't be reworked to be made fun to play? If there's one mmo that isn't  too scared to experiment and innovate, its gw2.

If you have a great idea but the implementation turns out bad, is the takeaway that you just drop the idea and give up on it? Or isn't there room to learn from mistakes, fix them and improve to make it something good instead? Going from SotO to Janthir Wilds, I think they're really good at learning from mistakes and improving on them.

Edited September 1 by Chyro.1462

[Poormany.4507]

3 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Please no.  Underwater combat is a cool concept and I appreciate what they tried to do with it, but there's just no saving it.  It takes some of the best aspects of the gameplay (e.g. movement, combat) and makes them feel worse.  The last thing I want to see is more of a focus on underwater combat.

Given Anet's recent theme of going back and reworking key systems in the game that large portions of the playerbase had legitimate gripes about as main expac features (Dailies and Skyscale in SotO, Land spears and Warclaw in JW), I would not be surprised if underwater combat/mechanics and Skimmer/Turtle are the main reworked features in a future underwater expac.

Edited September 1 by Poormany.4507

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Chyro.1462 said:

But that's what I mean. If they fixed what made it bad and make it fun instead. If underwater combat becomes more mobile and dynamic? It would open so much possibilities for new content if they managed to turn underwater into an enjoyable experience. You're saying there's no saving it, but are you 100% sure it can't be reworked to be made fun to play? If there's one mmo that isn't  too scared to experiment and innovate, its gw2.

If you have a great idea but the implementation turns out bad, is the takeaway that you just drop the idea and give up on it? Or isn't there room to learn from mistakes, fix them and improve to make it something good instead? Going from SotO to Janthir Wilds, I think they're really good at learning from mistakes and improving on them.

No, because it isn't the weapon skills that are the problem.  It's the part you can't fix: the floaty underwater movement in 3D space.  It makes sense.  You're underwater after all.  Shouldn't it be that way?  Yes, it should.  But as a side-effect, doesn't that feel worse than everything we do on land?  Dodging out of the way of an attack and leaping in.  All that kind of quick, precise movement we love and none of it works underwater.  You dodge and you're now floating out of position and have to slowly swim back into range.  Charge attacks float past enemies.  As I said, it takes the best aspects of this combat system and makes them feel bad. 

There's no changing that.  It's how floating underwater is supposed to be.  That we can swing a sword underwater at all is a little silly, but where other games don't allow it at all GW2 dared to tread (water).  Bonus points to them for that, but it just doesn't work for me and a balance pass on underwater skills isn't going to fix that for me.

[Chyro.1462]

28 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

No, because it isn't the weapon skills that are the problem.  It's the part you can't fix: the floaty underwater movement in 3D space.  It makes sense.  You're underwater after all.  Shouldn't it be that way?  Yes, it should.  But as a side-effect, doesn't that feel worse than everything we do on land?  Dodging out of the way of an attack and leaping in.  All that kind of quick, precise movement we love and none of it works underwater.  You dodge and you're now floating out of position and have to slowly swim back into range.  Charge attacks float past enemies.  As I said, it takes the best aspects of this combat system and makes them feel bad. 

There's no changing that.  It's how floating underwater is supposed to be.  That we can swing a sword underwater at all is a little silly, but where other games don't allow it at all GW2 dared to tread (water).  Bonus points to them for that, but it just doesn't work for me and a balance pass on underwater skills isn't going to fix that for me.

Who says they can't change that? There's ample reason to change it. And plenty of ways to do it. Perhaps an underwater race (Largos) that learned how to harness magic to ignore water resistance to an extent. New Mastery line. New asuran tech, a invisible nano suit that allows agile movement within water. The possibilities are there if you're not stuck on 'It has to work this way so there's no way to improve it'.

[Randulf.7614]

The rivers, rapids and rope bridges over them were a real highlight in the atmosphere of the first map

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Chyro.1462 said:

Who says they can't change that? There's ample reason to change it. And plenty of ways to do it. Perhaps an underwater race (Largos) that learned how to harness magic to ignore water resistance to an extent. New Mastery line. New asuran tech, a invisible nano suit that allows agile movement within water. The possibilities are there if you're not stuck on 'It has to work this way so there's no way to improve it'.

And what would be the point of that?  Expend a bunch of resources trying to make underwater combat feel less like underwater combat?  No, thanks.  I'd rather they just not make it a focus at all.

[Chyro.1462]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

And what would be the point of that?  Expend a bunch of resources trying to make underwater combat feel less like underwater combat?  No, thanks.  I'd rather they just not make it a focus at all.

Is it so hard to imagine that they could find a way to make the underwater experience fun while still making it feel like you're underwater?

[AliamRationem.5172]

35 minutes ago, Chyro.1462 said:

Is it so hard to imagine that they could find a way to make the underwater experience fun while still making it feel like you're underwater?

Yes.  Worse, it would pull resources away from other things they could be doing.  And they obviously don't have enough to begin with (see Janthir Syntri).

[Sobx.1758]

18 hours ago, Poormany.4507 said:

Has this mechanic been used in previous expansions? I honestly do not remember seeing actual flowing water with current physics that moves the player with them anywhere else in previous maps. Hint for a future underwater-based expac? I could see multiple masteries and/or jumping puzzles dealing with flowing water, currents, and water-based player movement.

Does SAB count (although I think it was only in shallow water and forced walking animation/speed)?
Not sure if it was used in ow and even though it's a nice change, I still don't want an uw expansion.

Edited September 1 by Sobx.1758

[Hotride.2187]

I dont like the current. One of the good things about the game is fluid movement. The current makes the movement feel janky. Its fine to get moved as part of some boss or champion mechanic, since if thats gonna be the gimmick, thats the gimmick. But huge areas being affected? Not a fan. And its jarring too, cause its new and only some places.

[Pifil.5193]

4 hours ago, Chyro.1462 said:

Is it so hard to imagine that they could find a way to make the underwater experience fun while still making it feel like you're underwater?

It is very hard to imagine that they could make it more fun while keeping the underwater feel, yes.

I'm sure they've discussed it but can't think of a way of fixing it either. Personally, I can't see anything about underwater that would add to an encounter or expansion rather than detract from it.

[Rogue.8235]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Does SAB count (although I think it was only in shallow water and forced walking animation/speed)?
Not sure if it was used in ow and even though it's a nice change, I still don't want an uw expansion.

I remember seeing something where the developer behind SAB (sorry forgot his name) revealed that the movement was an illusion and, really, it was the entire map moving around the character.  This was shown in the level where you're on a log raft in the rapids.  If you're referring to something else in SAB, I'd be interested to know more.

[Andy.5981]

20 hours ago, Poormany.4507 said:

Has this mechanic been used in previous expansions? I honestly do not remember seeing actual flowing water with current physics that moves the player with them anywhere else in previous maps. Hint for a future underwater-based expac? I could see multiple masteries and/or jumping puzzles dealing with flowing water, currents, and water-based player movement.

In Sirens Landing some of the Waterfalls will move you towards the edge if you stand in the water and just south of the Tears of Orr point of Interest if you try to fly through the falling water from one of the falls towards Grenths Reliquary, the force of the water will cause your skyscale/griffon to the ground.

Then there are the streams in the Sunqua Peak Fractal (just after you kill the Spark mini boss) which can wash you over the edge if you misjudge the flow.

Those are the only two examples I can think of that use the force of water to propel the player.

[Sobx.1758]

32 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

I remember seeing something where the developer behind SAB (sorry forgot his name) revealed that the movement was an illusion and, really, it was the entire map moving around the character.  This was shown in the level where you're on a log raft in the rapids.  If you're referring to something else in SAB, I'd be interested to know more.

Makes sense. Although I believe what I'm talking about isn't the same as what you're mentioning here: in your case, every player in the instance needs to get on the raft checkpoint for it to start moving (or the map to start moving around it). What I mean in my post are the parts where you need to "frogger" your way through the river by jumping on the logs and if you fall into the river, you're moved along the current. It was also used without logs in w3 test zone.

Edited September 1 by Sobx.1758

[Ashantara.8731]

20 hours ago, Poormany.4507 said:

Has this mechanic been used in previous expansions?

No. But it has in the Super Adventure Box. 🙂 

[Robban.1256]

11 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Makes sense. Although I believe what I'm talking about isn't the same as what you're mentioning here: in your case, every player in the instance needs to get on the raft checkpoint for it to start moving (or the map to start moving around it). What I mean in my post are the parts where you need to "frogger" your way through the river by jumping on the logs and if you fall into the river, you're moved along the current. It was also used without logs in w3 test zone.

Another OW that has that is the water flowing from east lane Tarir

[Dean Calaway.9718]

On 9/1/2024 at 2:44 AM, Poormany.4507 said:

Hint for a future underwater-based expac?

Highly doubt it, but it could be cool.

I imagine an expansion where we'd go to the unending ocean to rescue someone from the Krait, these maps could be highly dynamic, as in, structures would be built and destroyed during meta events, we could also fight on top of moving ships.

So while underwater wouldn't be the main focus, it could be a big part with currents playing a role.

[Inssengrimm.7924]

On 8/31/2024 at 11:15 PM, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

However, the currents have proved to be more annoying than fun with JW's fish adventures.

The true Immersive Salmon Experience.