Elitism - Mass Discussion Thread

[Biziut.3594]

2 hours ago, Voyant.1327 said:

Here we go again "would you mind telling me what kind of bounty run" it doesn't matter. No one, not you, not me, not the next guy has any right to go "hey you play this way." If a civil discussion is had or something is requested, sure. That is not what the majority of players do here. There are countless threads on the subject of this problem and how its suffocating enjoyment.

No one wants to log into a game to have a bunch of people tell them how they should play it. Worst is it so not necessary 90% of the time.

No one is saying you can't build groups how you want to, its simply saying being suffocating elitists who determine they're right on everything without even a conversation bc of a meta website is wrong.

You, me, or anyone else has no right to bully people to playing the way we believe is best. And yes it is bullying people into doing things they don't want to so they can be a part of a social activity. It's just the majority seems to have convinced each other this kind of intolerance is tolerated. Any justification of that is simply denial of the problem or an inability to see it, which it can be hard to see outside of a perspective that's been established I can sympathize with that. Google "Elitism in GW2" you'll find plenty of people being put down bc they don't play how they're "supposed to"

You can have a different view, but justifying the rude & intolerant behavior of a toxic aspect of the community should never be allowed. 

Edit: Prime example, I've had my build for a month or so, I put out about 2-10k more dps on average while also providing healing vs the snowcrows bench mark. I was vote kicked numerous times by groups bc I didn't want to use a SC build after being told I should (not asked, not discussed), the snowcrows recommendation is now 90% of my build and still doesn't provide the boons. Essentially I was pushed out because the Virtuoso snowcrows guy wasn't faster then me figuring out the ideal build, but efficiency! Community responses are always more toxicity "post your build.","post your dps", "what no that can't be right", "I don't believe you unless you meticulously step by step show me how." etc. Simply bc I did things my own way not how everyone else wanted. Why would anyone want to contribute or be a part of that? 

Also just saw your reply about majority/minority.... And I would say this is the first MMO I've encountered more toxicity in PvE then PvP, Its subjective whether its the majority or minority as its relative to experience, but I've definitely seen more elitism then not in the community. 

Empathyyy, empathyyy put yourself in the place of mee. I told guy to elaborate on situation becouse he dressed it in the words that says "they are baddies and i am hurt" kind of way, without showing what really happen. 

I never told that someone in OW have right to bully you for not using a certain build, but one that is asked to do so, should first think why they are asking this, and maybe later start antagonizing them for stealing your imaginary freedom. We had no clear draw of situation that happened there. Maybe some guy failed 20 times doing some harder boss for collection, and he want to make sure this time he will win so he asked nicely for certain build or It might just been an easy daily boss and that guy just wanted to be mean. If it was the latter, than your steps should look like i posted before SCREEN/REPORT/BLOCK/MOVE ON. For you it is some kind of new toxic behaviour, for a net it is just another guy that needs a warn or ban, same as somone would start sluring you for no reason, so crying on forum over it is pretty pointless, since there is already system that you should follow if such things happen.

Before you tell me that kind of things shouldnt happen in the first place. We are all ppl, we all have a freedom of speech, until we break the law with said speech. A-net makes the laws in this game and is also enforcer, but they can't ban a player before they commit the evil deed, so sorry but unless A-Net will learn how to see into future, there will not be a way to prevent this kind of stuff from happening, only good ol report button can help you, crying your tears on forum won't do more than it did before.

Heres my advices how to avoid such things from the worst to the best in my opinion.

1. Always play meta. (We both dont want that in OW, thats why its the worst)

2. Get into invisible mode (They cant whisper you and you can hope that they wont mail you just to hurt your fragile feelings)

3. Grow a backbone (last and best that comes to my mind for now, it's online game there always be ppls and ppls can be good or bad, such is our nature, we can't cut out weed until it grows, so eighter this + report button or you can go play some single player).

About your group play, this is as easy as it gets, and i said it couple of times, you join gr that requires White Pigeon build, than you play White Pigeon build, even if your own is 10x better, if you disagree, and majority in group or commander in squads disagrees with you, than you get booted out, simple, efficent, and works perfectly. Make your own group and try it sometimes, you can even make your own description in which you can ask that you are making group with only thieves, and you can kick someone that joins engi and refuse to change. For you PaleBirds builds are not perfect, for someone they are, if you joining their run and refuse to swallow your pride for said run you get kicked, becouse than you are the one being toxic, not enlighted, not smarter, not better but the word that you love soooo much, toxic. Works in opposite directions and other situations as well. End of a story.

Edit. Ohh and you actually are the person that had problem with the bounty, so my question stands, eighter give us the whole picture or be sure that only your White Knights will pity you, and they see toxic elitism even in the moss growing out of the rock not even imagining that they can also be toxic themselves.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Biziut.3594

[Cyninja.2954]

8 hours ago, Voyant.1327 said:

Edit: Prime example, I've had my build for a month or so, I put out about 2-10k more dps on average while also providing healing vs the snowcrows bench mark. I was vote kicked numerous times by groups bc I didn't want to use a SC build after being told I should (not asked, not discussed), the snowcrows recommendation is now 90% of my build and still doesn't provide the boons. Essentially I was pushed out because the Virtuoso snowcrows guy wasn't faster then me figuring out the ideal build, but efficiency! Community responses are always more toxicity "post your build.","post your dps", "what no that can't be right", "I don't believe you unless you meticulously step by step show me how." etc. Simply bc I did things my own way not how everyone else wanted. Why would anyone want to contribute or be a part of that? 

 

Sorry but I am calling bs on this.

Not because the guys over at Snowcrows are unfail-able or perfect, but because you over-stacked your build superiority by such a ludicrous amount that it shows you have no idea how much 2-10k dps actually is (plus healing and boons). You are either grossly exaggerating or have never actually done any testing as far a your build is concerned.

The final nail here: players don't check builds (unless running illegal addons, which most would NEVER let you know and don't actually need to do to spot a bad build). They check output. If you really did have this insane amount of more dps AND boons AND healing, you would not have gotten kicked, you would have been asked to share your build or they would have reverse engineered it from the limited information one does get (aka rotation and damage allocation to skills and effects in arcdps).

The amount of times this claim here is being made only to end up coming from some player who can't tell the difference between his damage numbers and actually parsed dps is far to often. I give credit though, the extra boons and healing was a nice touch.

I do agree with you though, bounty runs are open world content and no one should tell you how to play.

EDIT:

Just thought I'd put this here in case some people don't understand where and how builds develop and are created. It's not that 1 XYZ guy who does it. When a new patch hits, even before the patch goes live but the details are known, spreadsheets are filled with new variables, traits are considered and possible new builds are theory-crafted. Then once the patch hits, a multitude of people start testing ideas and sharing what they have come up with (depending on the size of the patch this can be almost nothing or days of testing by multiple individuals). Then eventually the final builds are uploaded to Snowcrows, Luckynoobs, Metabattle, etc.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Shikaru.7618]

On 7/4/2022 at 12:07 AM, Voyant.1327 said:

Here we go again "would you mind telling me what kind of bounty run" it doesn't matter. No one, not you, not me, not the next guy has any right to go "hey you play this way." If a civil discussion is had or something is requested, sure. That is not what the majority of players do here. There are countless threads on the subject of this problem and how its suffocating enjoyment.

No one wants to log into a game to have a bunch of people tell them how they should play it. Worst is it so not necessary 90% of the time.

No one is saying you can't build groups how you want to, its simply saying being suffocating elitists who determine they're right on everything without even a conversation bc of a meta website is wrong.

You, me, or anyone else has no right to bully people to playing the way we believe is best. And yes it is bullying people into doing things they don't want to so they can be a part of a social activity. It's just the majority seems to have convinced each other this kind of intolerance is tolerated. Any justification of that is simply denial of the problem or an inability to see it, which it can be hard to see outside of a perspective that's been established I can sympathize with that. Google "Elitism in GW2" you'll find plenty of people being put down bc they don't play how they're "supposed to"

You can have a different view, but justifying the rude & intolerant behavior of a toxic aspect of the community should never be allowed. 

Edit: Prime example, I've had my build for a month or so, I put out about 2-10k more dps on average while also providing healing vs the snowcrows bench mark. I was vote kicked numerous times by groups bc I didn't want to use a SC build after being told I should (not asked, not discussed), the snowcrows recommendation is now 90% of my build and still doesn't provide the boons. Essentially I was pushed out because the Virtuoso snowcrows guy wasn't faster then me figuring out the ideal build, but efficiency! Community responses are always more toxicity "post your build.","post your dps", "what no that can't be right", "I don't believe you unless you meticulously step by step show me how." etc. Simply bc I did things my own way not how everyone else wanted. Why would anyone want to contribute or be a part of that? 

Also just saw your reply about majority/minority.... And I would say this is the first MMO I've encountered more toxicity in PvE then PvP, Its subjective whether its the majority or minority as its relative to experience, but I've definitely seen more elitism then not in the community. 

Like other people mentioned, please share said build with a video on the golem. If there's a dps build that benches 2 to 10k higher with healing I'd love to see it. I'm not quite sure how asking to see something demonstrated after you make a claim is toxic. Any claim with measureable results would also recieve the same scrutiny. If someone from snowcrows made a serious claim that "i have a heal warrior build that will outdps the warrior benchmark" people would also ask them for proof and not take their word for it on good faith.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Shikaru.7618

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 7/4/2022 at 1:07 AM, Voyant.1327 said:

Here we go again "would you mind telling me what kind of bounty run" it doesn't matter. No one, not you, not me, not the next guy has any right to go "hey you play this way." If a civil discussion is had or something is requested, sure. That is not what the majority of players do here. There are countless threads on the subject of this problem and how its suffocating enjoyment.

No one wants to log into a game to have a bunch of people tell them how they should play it. Worst is it so not necessary 90% of the time.

No one is saying you can't build groups how you want to, its simply saying being suffocating elitists who determine they're right on everything without even a conversation bc of a meta website is wrong.

You, me, or anyone else has no right to bully people to playing the way we believe is best. And yes it is bullying people into doing things they don't want to so they can be a part of a social activity. It's just the majority seems to have convinced each other this kind of intolerance is tolerated. Any justification of that is simply denial of the problem or an inability to see it, which it can be hard to see outside of a perspective that's been established I can sympathize with that. Google "Elitism in GW2" you'll find plenty of people being put down bc they don't play how they're "supposed to"

You can have a different view, but justifying the rude & intolerant behavior of a toxic aspect of the community should never be allowed. 

Edit: Prime example, I've had my build for a month or so, I put out about 2-10k more dps on average while also providing healing vs the snowcrows bench mark. I was vote kicked numerous times by groups bc I didn't want to use a SC build after being told I should (not asked, not discussed), the snowcrows recommendation is now 90% of my build and still doesn't provide the boons. Essentially I was pushed out because the Virtuoso snowcrows guy wasn't faster then me figuring out the ideal build, but efficiency! Community responses are always more toxicity "post your build.","post your dps", "what no that can't be right", "I don't believe you unless you meticulously step by step show me how." etc. Simply bc I did things my own way not how everyone else wanted. Why would anyone want to contribute or be a part of that? 

Also just saw your reply about majority/minority.... And I would say this is the first MMO I've encountered more toxicity in PvE then PvP, Its subjective whether its the majority or minority as its relative to experience, but I've definitely seen more elitism then not in the community. 

How are you getting kicked numerous times from groups for not using the meta build?  How do they know you're not using it in the first place?  And if you're performing so amazingly well why on earth would they be asking you to change anything?  None of this makes sense.

What does make sense is that if you're willing to make up a ridiculous story like this simply to shield your own ego in a forum discussion, there is no way you'd ever respond well to the implication that you might not be performing adequately for your role in a group.  Toxic elitists?  Sure, they're a thing.  But clearly, so are toxic casuals.

[Bakeneko.5826]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

How are you getting kicked numerous times from groups for not using the meta build?

This got me as well. Unless player spends whole time dead, even scuffed rotation on meta build should perform somewhat OK, or at least not at the point of getting kicked.

 

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

How do they know you're not using it in the first place?

Arc is my guess. In fractal runs I can spot non-meta builds, because they do same dps as condirev on harbinger or mesmer. Or worse- same as HFB. 

 

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

This got me as well. Unless player spends whole time dead, even scuffed rotation on meta build should perform somewhat OK, or at least not at the point of getting kicked.

 

Arc is my guess. In fractal runs I can spot non-meta builds, because they do same dps as condirev on harbinger or mesmer. Or worse- same as HFB. 

 

Well then they are ot preforming amazingly well so kinda moot point.

[Voyant.1327]

On 7/4/2022 at 11:25 AM, Cyninja.2954 said:

Sorry but I am calling bs on this.

Not because the guys over at Snowcrows are unfail-able or perfect, but because you over-stacked your build superiority by such a ludicrous amount that it shows you have no idea how much 2-10k dps actually is (plus healing and boons). You are either grossly exaggerating or have never actually done any testing as far a your build is concerned.

The final nail here: players don't check builds (unless running illegal addons, which most would NEVER let you know and don't actually need to do to spot a bad build). They check output. If you really did have this insane amount of more dps AND boons AND healing, you would not have gotten kicked, you would have been asked to share your build or they would have reverse engineered it from the limited information one does get (aka rotation and damage allocation to skills and effects in arcdps).

The amount of times this claim here is being made only to end up coming from some player who can't tell the difference between his damage numbers and actually parsed dps is far to often. I give credit though, the extra boons and healing was a nice touch.

I do agree with you though, bounty runs are open world content and no one should tell you how to play.

EDIT:

Just thought I'd put this here in case some people don't understand where and how builds develop and are created. It's not that 1 XYZ guy who does it. When a new patch hits, even before the patch goes live but the details are known, spreadsheets are filled with new variables, traits are considered and possible new builds are theory-crafted. Then once the patch hits, a multitude of people start testing ideas and sharing what they have come up with (depending on the size of the patch this can be almost nothing or days of testing by multiple individuals). Then eventually the final builds are uploaded to Snowcrows, Luckynoobs, Metabattle, etc.

Case in point.

"You can't do something different then the website bible told me"

"Pics or it didn't happen"

These are childish forms of peer pressure. I have zero interest in contributing to that culture thus why would I want to throw the information out there.

There are plenty of skill methods to increase dps beyond meta recommendations that aren't utilized. Such as becoming skilled with interrupt procs and utilizing weapon sigils that feed off of em. Strawberry Cilantro can be utilized to generate might with lifesteal, etc. 

It shouldn't be the job of the player to defend himself against the overlords of the meta. 

I do not care about bragging rights, who cares about being top dps. I left a range as it varies due to proc timing.

But yes please demonstrate the lack of elitism by utilizing elitist judgment because you know better then someone else bc a website said so.

Literally described this scenario pre-emptively as an example and still it occurs. Not sure how else I can highlight the issue for elitists to see. 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Voyant.1327 said:

Case in point.

"You can't do something different then the website bible told me"

"Pics or it didn't happen"

These are childish forms of peer pressure. I have zero interest in contributing to that culture thus why would I want to throw the information out there.

Except that is not the case here. You made a claim, a rather ridiculous one at that, to undermine your rather toxic assumptions about parts of this games player base. It is not unreasonable to ask for some kind of proof.

One of the current top reasons for any type of toxicity between different players is misinformation, misunderstanding and/or simple lack of knowledge. Contributing to this, no matter which position one might have, does not absolve one in this scenario of adding to this misinformation.

Sorry but from my perspective and that of any reasonable person who calls into question toxic claims of this nature, you are adding to the problem. Worse yet, when asked to validate your claim in any way possible, you play shift the blame.

Quote

There are plenty of skill methods to increase dps beyond meta recommendations that aren't utilized. Such as becoming skilled with interrupt procs and utilizing weapon sigils that feed off of em. Strawberry Cilantro can be utilized to generate might with lifesteal, etc. 

Yes, and just about all of them have been discovered and tested and in fact put into spreadsheets by now. I explained how this is done and how an entire set of players works diligently to stay up to date with what is possible within this games build system.

The mere assumption that there is a magical not discovered combination which suddenly produces the results you claim to have achieved already paints a bleak picture of your understanding of how knowledgeable others are of this game.

Interrupt procs for example work on almost no bosses or enemies of elite status or above (edit: or let's be more specific, where they do work, it is most often inconsequential to any performance provided and often results in a performance decrease versus alternate traits/skills in a pve setting)

Starwberry Cilantro is strait up an inferior version when it comes to food when it comes to damage compared with Cilantro Lime Sous-Vide Steak (the power version) or Cilantro and Cured Meat Flatbread (the condi version) both of which see regular use in pretty much all guides. As far as might generation, that is rarely of consequence in group content.

Quote

It shouldn't be the job of the player to defend himself against the overlords of the meta. 

It's not, it is common though to support claims with evidence, especially outlandish ones.

Quote

I do not care about bragging rights, who cares about being top dps. I left a range as it varies due to proc timing.

But yes please demonstrate the lack of elitism by utilizing elitist judgment because you know better then someone else bc a website said so.

Literally described this scenario pre-emptively as an example and still it occurs. Not sure how else I can highlight the issue for elitists to see.

You described a scenario for which we have your word only. Yet your claim is so full of mistakes that it calls into quesiton the validity. I mean I personally don't care about you making things up. It would explain why you are having issues with other players in game when your claims and actual performance do not match up when monitored say with arcdps. That is a you issue though.

Again, most players don't care about builds, they care about output. If you provide the desired output, no matter how you manage to do that, no one cares what build you run. If your output gets called into question repeatedly, then maybe, just maybe, something is off in regards to how amazing your build or game play is.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Nephalem.8921]

12 hours ago, Voyant.1327 said:

Case in point.

"You can't do something different then the website bible told me"

"Pics or it didn't happen"

These are childish forms of peer pressure. I have zero interest in contributing to that culture thus why would I want to throw the information out there.

There are plenty of skill methods to increase dps beyond meta recommendations that aren't utilized. Such as becoming skilled with interrupt procs and utilizing weapon sigils that feed off of em. Strawberry Cilantro can be utilized to generate might with lifesteal, etc. 

It shouldn't be the job of the player to defend himself against the overlords of the meta. 

I do not care about bragging rights, who cares about being top dps. I left a range as it varies due to proc timing.

But yes please demonstrate the lack of elitism by utilizing elitist judgment because you know better then someone else bc a website said so.

Literally described this scenario pre-emptively as an example and still it occurs. Not sure how else I can highlight the issue for elitists to see. 

 

All those methods are utilized. and many more usually. only exception would be sc cata bench which didnt use a bunch of things to be low intentionally.

Sigil interrupt procc is nowhere close to be consistent enough to replace force, air, impact or accuracy on your main dps weapons. it is used in some cases on swap weapons and is used sometimes by fractal tryharders. untamed might be the only spec who could make it work in a dps rotation. its just too inconsistent. you need to cc a boss during an animation for it to work and delaying skills for it will be an overall dps loss. all benchmarks use lifesteal food now. generating might is pointless in a benchmark since you will have 25 anyways.

the claim of doing 2-10k dps more dps than meta builds is kinda funny though. that margin is enormous. Pics or it didnt happen is a valid argument. Cant even proof it with a pic? Most likely a scam.

Please explain me one thing. We dont have gearcheck in the game and only hackers have access to it. the majority has no idea what gear you are using. all they see are some trait specific buffs and used skills/weapons. The overwhelming majority does not bother to check those things initially. only when things are off after an encounter or wipe.

So all they see is your dps initially or your boon output. even heal cant be seen. if your build is so great why are they complaining about it? makes the content too easy? this makes no sense. on the other hand it would make sense if it would underperform.

[Shikaru.7618]

17 hours ago, Voyant.1327 said:

Case in point.

"You can't do something different then the website bible told me"

"Pics or it didn't happen"

These are childish forms of peer pressure. I have zero interest in contributing to that culture thus why would I want to throw the information out there.

There are plenty of skill methods to increase dps beyond meta recommendations that aren't utilized. Such as becoming skilled with interrupt procs and utilizing weapon sigils that feed off of em. Strawberry Cilantro can be utilized to generate might with lifesteal, etc. 

It shouldn't be the job of the player to defend himself against the overlords of the meta. 

I do not care about bragging rights, who cares about being top dps. I left a range as it varies due to proc timing.

But yes please demonstrate the lack of elitism by utilizing elitist judgment because you know better then someone else bc a website said so.

Literally described this scenario pre-emptively as an example and still it occurs. Not sure how else I can highlight the issue for elitists to see. 

 

If these are the metrics you're using, you clearly do not understand how damage is being measured or how the game is played in a group setting. Having a dps build generate might on interrupt might as well be a net 0 gain because in high level groups, might is already capped at 25 by the supports. In fact I'm so confident your claims are nonsense that I will personally fully fund any legendary you want if you can demonstrate with me present in game that your claims of hitting 2-10k higher while healing and providing relevant boons is true.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Shikaru.7618

[The Boz.2038]

On 7/4/2022 at 9:07 AM, Voyant.1327 said:

Words

You can't be serious.

[The Boz.2038]

Heard that the Specter support uses Renegade runes. 
It irked me. I had a hunch.
I spent hours numbercrunching and theorycrafting, trying to prove that Scavenging runes yield better returns. 
Finally did it; if you have a T10 core, you do a whopping 1 DPS better than Renegade, but with the added bonus of tons of extra health and heals.
I was beside myself with joy when I proved that. The Scavenging runes are now officially on the SC build as the meta pick. Am happy and proud.

But yeah. You casually do 10k more DPS than the meta build, while providing all them boons and heals. Sure thing. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

21 hours ago, Voyant.1327 said:

Case in point.

"You can't do something different then the website bible told me"

"Pics or it didn't happen"

These are childish forms of peer pressure. I have zero interest in contributing to that culture thus why would I want to throw the information out there.

There are plenty of skill methods to increase dps beyond meta recommendations that aren't utilized. Such as becoming skilled with interrupt procs and utilizing weapon sigils that feed off of em. Strawberry Cilantro can be utilized to generate might with lifesteal, etc. 

It shouldn't be the job of the player to defend himself against the overlords of the meta. 

I do not care about bragging rights, who cares about being top dps. I left a range as it varies due to proc timing.

But yes please demonstrate the lack of elitism by utilizing elitist judgment because you know better then someone else bc a website said so.

Literally described this scenario pre-emptively as an example and still it occurs. Not sure how else I can highlight the issue for elitists to see. 

 

There's a reason why SC benchmarks are a trusted source while your dubious claims are not.  They spend countless hours meticulously testing builds and rotations and then share that information with the community.  If you don't care about maximizing performance in a video game, you're not alone.  But don't claim you know better unless you're prepared to support that claim.

I don't care about basketball, but you don't see me claiming I can take the Rockets to the Finals.

[Sobx.1758]

On 7/4/2022 at 9:07 AM, Voyant.1327 said:

Here we go again "would you mind telling me what kind of bounty run" it doesn't matter. No one, not you, not me, not the next guy has any right to go "hey you play this way."

It matters, because I want to join them and see who will finally tell me what to play. That would be a new experience to me, so definitely please share details.

Seriously, what kind of elite hardcore tryhard groups are people from this forum joining that they're apparently consistently getting their builds checked/dictated (and in bounties at that, which just adds another layer of weirdness)?

Edited July 20, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[mindcircus.1506]

On 7/19/2022 at 5:59 AM, Voyant.1327 said:

These are childish forms of peer pressure. I have zero interest in contributing to that culture thus why would I want to throw the information out there.

Do you not feel that if you had a build that outperformed a meta build so well that it would be nice of you to share it so that everyone could benefit from your work?

[Shikaru.7618]

1 hour ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Do you not feel that if you had a build that outperformed a meta build so well that it would be nice of you to share it so that everyone could benefit from your work?

Sadly no. People like us are going to use "numbers" and "meta build websites" to point out the flaws without using our brains to think for ourselves. A good build doesnt conform to our numerical standards. /s

[KingJoko.1625]

On 1/15/2018 at 9:21 AM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

There you have it. Someone needed to say it.

Nobody had to say anything. Make your own groups where you don't ask for optimal builds, and feel free to waste your own time by completing the dailies slower.

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 7/20/2022 at 1:43 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

It matters, because I want to join them and see who will finally tell me what to play. That would be a new experience to me, so definitely please share details.

Seriously, what kind of elite hardcore tryhard groups are people from this forum joining that they're apparently consistently getting their builds checked/dictated (and in bounties at that, which just adds another layer of weirdness)?

You can't expect a sensitive person like myself to admit my own shortcomings, can you?  If I just outright told you that every group I join tells me I perform terribly, you'd correctly identify the source of the problem.  That makes me feel inadequate and we can't have that now, can we? 

So, a better solution for all involved is to blame a shadowy group of "elitists" who set traps for me by creating groups for things I want to do everywhere I go and then when I join they berate me and kick me for not playing the meta even though I perform better than they do!  It's maddening, I tell you!

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

You can't expect a sensitive person like myself to admit my own shortcomings, can you?  If I just outright told you that every group I join tells me I perform terribly, you'd correctly identify the source of the problem.  That makes me feel inadequate and we can't have that now, can we? 

So, a better solution for all involved is to blame a shadowy group of "elitists" who set traps for me by creating groups for things I want to do everywhere I go and then when I join they berate me and kick me for not playing the meta even though I perform better than they do!  It's maddening, I tell you!

Yup, apparently there will be no answers here and any attempts to ask for more details (to the players that then claim they want to have a mature conversation) are considered as "childish form of peer pressure". In that case, someone needs to explain to me how discussions work -preferably the same people that see asking for more details as problematic during a discussion.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[IsabelDawn.8950]

In the end this game is being played for fun. Now "fun" has a very different definition for some people rather then others, and that is fine.

 

Personally I think that so long as my party is able to clear the content, how we clear it (as in, with what builds), shouldnt matter.

 

I know there are some people who will very angrily disagree, but in public groups at least, I think people need to have a little bit of patience and joviality.

 

Get your friends together and be as elite as you like, but expecting it from randoms might be pushing it a little.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, IsabelDawn.8950 said:

In the end this game is being played for fun. Now "fun" has a very different definition for some people rather then others, and that is fine.

 

Personally I think that so long as my party is able to clear the content, how we clear it (as in, with what builds), shouldnt matter.

 

I know there are some people who will very angrily disagree, but in public groups at least, I think people need to have a little bit of patience and joviality.

 

Get your friends together and be as elite as you like, but expecting it from randoms might be pushing it a little.

So high preforming players must have friends they are not allowed to try and met up other single high preforming players.

Aint that kinda odd why are you allowed to look for more people?

Shouldent you have to get your chill friends in game to play like you want then aswell?

Edit

It is quite easy to spot if the group is for you or not if it say chill, all welcome go for it if it have kp dont.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Linken.6345

[IsabelDawn.8950]

That reads like another question: Should open groups be elitist by default or inclusive?

 

I would say inclusive so long as the group can clear the content.

After all, you can't expect complete strangers to live up to elaborate requirements, and a gaming environment where you get constantly kicked for not having x achievemenet, or x gear score, like on some other MMO's? That's not my idea of fun, I don't think that's what we should want for Guild Wars, and, to get back to the core point of this post, it is not neccecary for fractals.

 

It's different if you put it loud and clear in the box, though even then, growing elitism is not a good thing. It's just not.

 

A lot of toxicity comes with the attitude of "gotta go fast" that I dont personally think anyone should want to become the norm.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, IsabelDawn.8950 said:

That reads like another question: Should open groups be elitist by default or inclusive?

 

I would say inclusive so long as the group can clear the content.

After all, you can't expect complete strangers to live up to elaborate requirements, and a gaming environment where you get constantly kicked for not having x achievemenet, or x gear score, like on some other MMO's? That's not my idea of fun, I don't think that's what we should want for Guild Wars, and, to get back to the core point of this post, it is not neccecary for fractals.

 

It's different if you put it loud and clear in the box, though even then, growing elitism is not a good thing. It's just not.

 

A lot of toxicity comes with the attitude of "gotta go fast" that I dont personally think anyone should want to become the norm.

I dont agree at all that you cant expect complete strangers to live up to elaborate reuirements, it might take longer to fill but they do in the end.

What harm do it do to you for seeing a lfg post by a group you have no interest in joining and you can easily start your own?

They are looking for other players that want to go fast if you want to go slow feel free to put that in a lfg post for any content you do.

You can even specifiy only pink haired Asura allowed if you like it dont matter your choice bud.

That you see the problem when I turn it around on you should make you wonder if your first post was a good idea or not.

Since the way you play might not be fun for a got to go fast person.

[ASP.8093]

On 7/19/2022 at 8:59 AM, Voyant.1327 said:

"Pics or it didn't happen"

That's right. Pics or it didn't happen. Pony up, bud.

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

I have a Rifle/Pistol-Dagger Dragonhunter build that benches 37k, but it's exclusive to me so i'm not sharing with you guys, sorry.