Breaking the Myth of Rock/Paper/Scissors in Solo Roaming

[bq pd.2148]

@bigo.9037 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shining One.1635 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:what is the hard counter for your ranger that he cant escape?Mirage. I might be able to escape if I played Staff Druid, but I don't.

then anyone can kill my deadeye if i wasnt running shadow arts, but i do. (oke necros still couldnt)

@"Clownmug.8357" said:A power Mirage with Evasive Mirror could be a possible counter for Deadeye, don't know about Thieves in general though.

the problem is , he is asking for some build that can guarantee a kill. if i run around the map while not leaving permastealth till i get to a target that i do want to kill, then i dont think a power mirage is able to get me out of stealth and force a kill if i just aim to survive and avoid the fight. and i think power mirage while i need to be very careful approaching them, has a huge weakness against a deadeye : too squishy. if i attack with rifle then yes i will probably die but i attack power mes allways with dagger and hope i do get a crit, before i post numbers and get answers that 'no they dont hit that high' just an example of last week against power mirage in his SMC, his object aura for extra thoughness and still overkill :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF75Qv-gQIQ

oh and altho it might look a bit like it but he was not afk, i was already in there for 2 hrs and you see him moving at the beginning into the lord for whatever reason.if this hit does not crit and i 'only' got a ~90% crit chance at that moment, i am probably dead.

but i do think a well played ranger should kill me if i dare to attack him - sadly hard to find one.

I play soulbeast really well. Thing is.. for my build to work properly against 90% of the meta builds i cant use sicem. I need to slot in other things. and without sicem a ranger/soulbeast is going to lose vs a deadeye most of the time. Not quickly. not at all. but deadeyes can reset so often that you will eventually run out of the cooldowns you need to survive their stealth rifle burst. thats when you die. like others in this thread have already said, its very poor design.

They can kitten their rotation and burst combo up like 20 times and still keep resetting over and over. and in wvw... what are you supposed to do? every time i am at some odd location like a camp etc and someone uses deadeyes mark on me... i am basically forced to leave. cus 99.9% of all deadeye players have the exact same mentality:They never... ever.. ever give up. I mean.. i like when people have that mentality. I do too. but when all you have to do to try again is reset a never ending fight.. without facing any consequences of screwing up your dead-easy 1shot combo... i mean... cmon.

I have fought deadeyes that would keep trying over and over and over to kill me for literally 15 minutes straight. they wont leave me alone. im in combat so i cant WP to spawn or change maps. and everywhere i go they will keep following me forever until i am dead. that kinda kitten just makes me quit the game for the day cus its so kitten stupid.

the deadeye has only 1 uninterruptable stealth wich is blinding powder and has 40s cd or 32s if they give up SE. are the skills you need to avoid one DJ shot on a higher CD? if not you can attack them and then kill them by interrupting their stealth attempt when they attack you too frequent or it will be an endless fight.

[bigo.9037]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shining One.1635 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:what is the hard counter for your ranger that he cant escape?Mirage. I might be able to escape if I played Staff Druid, but I don't.

then anyone can kill my deadeye if i wasnt running shadow arts, but i do. (oke necros still couldnt)

@"Clownmug.8357" said:A power Mirage with Evasive Mirror could be a possible counter for Deadeye, don't know about Thieves in general though.

the problem is , he is asking for some build that can guarantee a kill. if i run around the map while not leaving permastealth till i get to a target that i do want to kill, then i dont think a power mirage is able to get me out of stealth and force a kill if i just aim to survive and avoid the fight. and i think power mirage while i need to be very careful approaching them, has a huge weakness against a deadeye : too squishy. if i attack with rifle then yes i will probably die but i attack power mes allways with dagger and hope i do get a crit, before i post numbers and get answers that 'no they dont hit that high' just an example of last week against power mirage in his SMC, his object aura for extra thoughness and still overkill :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF75Qv-gQIQ

oh and altho it might look a bit like it but he was not afk, i was already in there for 2 hrs and you see him moving at the beginning into the lord for whatever reason.if this hit does not crit and i 'only' got a ~90% crit chance at that moment, i am probably dead.

but i do think a well played ranger should kill me if i dare to attack him - sadly hard to find one.

I play soulbeast really well. Thing is.. for my build to work properly against 90% of the meta builds i cant use sicem. I need to slot in other things. and without sicem a ranger/soulbeast is going to lose vs a deadeye most of the time. Not quickly. not at all. but deadeyes can reset so often that you will eventually run out of the cooldowns you need to survive their stealth rifle burst. thats when you die. like others in this thread have already said, its very poor design.

They can kitten their rotation and burst combo up like 20 times and still keep resetting over and over. and in wvw... what are you supposed to do? every time i am at some odd location like a camp etc and someone uses deadeyes mark on me... i am basically forced to leave. cus 99.9% of all deadeye players have the exact same mentality:They never... ever.. ever give up. I mean.. i like when people have that mentality. I do too. but when all you have to do to try again is reset a never ending fight.. without facing any consequences of screwing up your dead-easy 1shot combo... i mean... cmon.

I have fought deadeyes that would keep trying over and over and over to kill me for literally 15 minutes straight. they wont leave me alone. im in combat so i cant WP to spawn or change maps. and everywhere i go they will keep following me forever until i am dead. that kinda kitten just makes me quit the game for the day cus its so kitten stupid.

the deadeye has only 1 uninterruptable stealth wich is blinding powder and has 40s cd or 32s if they give up SE. are the skills you need to avoid one DJ shot on a higher CD? if not you can attack them and then kill them by interrupting their stealth attempt when they attack you too frequent or it will be an endless fight.

iirc the casttime of the other skills are very, very fast. At range i only have 1 chance and thats my Pointblankshot. which is easy to dodge unless youre an old man i guess. i mean.. deadeyes EXPECT to receive counterfire from a ranger. they know i have longbow. all they need to do is dodge my PBS once and they are free to do whatever they want. oh wait! i also have protect me. ok. but unless they die from 1 RF they can keep doing their thing over and over. deadeyes might have cast time on most of their stealth skills but i dont have any insta casts other than protect me either. stunbreaks sure. PM is the only one that has any utility that can help take down a deadeye.if i want to gapclose to get in melee range so i can stun him etc i have to cast super obvious gapclosers which he can easily counterplay by casting stealth. if I try to stealth.. well he will too. and his stealth is much longer than mine.

My ONLY option is getting him killed by PM taunt. if that doesnt kill him with RF burst the fight will never end cus they are persistent as fuck. either that or i will make some weird mistake... which is basically going too offensive... but then again. if i dont do that.. neither of us will ever die. so theres nothing i can really do.

[bigo.9037]

But why dont we try making a class ranking list? i think ill do just that actually. in another thread.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@apharma.3741 said:Tbh it boils down to what you’re running, for example above mentions mirage counters nearly every class which is true of the current disgusting meta builds for the class. However I run and interrupt build so guard, warrior and thieves can be a real headache for me either because they have lots of stability or there’s not much to interrupt and powerblock’s cool down increase effect doesn’t work on thief.

I think you’re right that necro is pretty much the only class at a significant disadvantage in whatever they play roaming however no class can come close to how dominant it is in large scale fights or being a self multiplier to itself especially since blood line became so strong for pulling and rezzing. Scourges are even replacing FBs a lot of the time because they only need 1 FB for stab to last the entire fight.

Apharma understands what I am trying to drive at.For most classes, there isn't a real 'hard counter' like range/mobility is to Necro as a whole.

In the replies above, most people state certain builds that are weak to other professions/builds.

Necro on the whole, its entirety, is weak to range/mobility.We can't build to fight range/mobility.

The other class that is/was suffering almost similarly would be Revenants against condi bunkers also mentioned above.Though currently Condi boon sustain Herald roamers are pretty durable and viable.

[bq pd.2148]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Tbh it boils down to what you’re running, for example above mentions mirage counters nearly every class which is true of the current disgusting meta builds for the class. However I run and interrupt build so guard, warrior and thieves can be a real headache for me either because they have lots of stability or there’s not much to interrupt and powerblock’s cool down increase effect doesn’t work on thief.

I think you’re right that necro is pretty much the only class at a significant disadvantage in whatever they play roaming however no class can come close to how dominant it is in large scale fights or being a self multiplier to itself especially since blood line became so strong for pulling and rezzing. Scourges are even replacing FBs a lot of the time because they only need 1 FB for stab to last the entire fight.

Apharma understands what I am trying to drive at.For most classes, there isn't a real 'hard counter' like range/mobility is to Necro as a whole.

In the replies above, most people state certain builds that are weak to other professions/builds.

Necro on the whole, its entirety, is weak to range/mobility.We can't

build

to fight range/mobility.

The other class that is/was suffering almost similarly would be Revenants against condi bunkers also mentioned above.Though currently Condi boon sustain Herald roamers are pretty durable and viable.

that is correct, tho you already give that answer in your opening post basically. but does every class need to be viable in any role ? guess we need like 10 more elite specs per class for that :D

[KrHome.1920]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Tbh it boils down to what you’re running, for example above mentions mirage counters nearly every class which is true of the current disgusting meta builds for the class. However I run and interrupt build so guard, warrior and thieves can be a real headache for me either because they have lots of stability or there’s not much to interrupt and powerblock’s cool down increase effect doesn’t work on thief.

I think you’re right that necro is pretty much the only class at a significant disadvantage in whatever they play roaming however no class can come close to how dominant it is in large scale fights or being a self multiplier to itself especially since blood line became so strong for pulling and rezzing. Scourges are even replacing FBs a lot of the time because they only need 1 FB for stab to last the entire fight.

Apharma understands what I am trying to drive at.For most classes, there isn't a real 'hard counter' like range/mobility is to Necro as a whole.

In the replies above, most people state certain builds that are weak to other professions/builds.

Necro on the whole, its entirety, is weak to range/mobility.We can't

build

to fight range/mobility.

The other class that is/was suffering almost similarly would be Revenants against condi bunkers also mentioned above.Though currently Condi boon sustain Herald roamers are pretty durable and viable.

that is correct, tho you already give that answer in your opening post basically. but does every class need to be viable in any role ? guess we need like 10 more elite specs per class for that :D

If ANet would have given every class the option for

• durability+support
• mobility+single target
• squishiness+AOE

with the 3 specs currently available for every class, we could already be at that point.

[Simonoly.4352]

As a Mesmer running all sorts of builds my hardest 1v1 by far is against the popular Warrior/SB roaming build. It's probably the best 1vX build in WvW currently and I think just about every other class struggles against. That Warrior build reminds me of the old days of immortal PU condi Mes but only worse because you can actually chase people down AND kill them too. It's nice to see a good 1vX build around again though if only for giggles =)

After that, hardest 1v1s are probably most Thief builds (although this is very dependent on the build I'm running), current Hammer roamer/medi Guardian, Druids and S/F eles. Dragonhunters are problematic if I'm not using Mirage.

[apharma.3741]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Tbh it boils down to what you’re running, for example above mentions mirage counters nearly every class which is true of the current disgusting meta builds for the class. However I run and interrupt build so guard, warrior and thieves can be a real headache for me either because they have lots of stability or there’s not much to interrupt and powerblock’s cool down increase effect doesn’t work on thief.

I think you’re right that necro is pretty much the only class at a significant disadvantage in whatever they play roaming however no class can come close to how dominant it is in large scale fights or being a self multiplier to itself especially since blood line became so strong for pulling and rezzing. Scourges are even replacing FBs a lot of the time because they only need 1 FB for stab to last the entire fight.

Apharma understands what I am trying to drive at.For most classes, there isn't a real 'hard counter' like range/mobility is to Necro as a whole.

In the replies above, most people state certain builds that are weak to other professions/builds.

Necro on the whole, its entirety, is weak to range/mobility.We can't

build

to fight range/mobility.

The other class that is/was suffering almost similarly would be Revenants against condi bunkers also mentioned above.Though currently Condi boon sustain Herald roamers are pretty durable and viable.

that is correct, tho you already give that answer in your opening post basically. but does every class need to be viable in any role ? guess we need like 10 more elite specs per class for that :D

If ANet would have given every class the option for

• durability+support
• mobility+single target
• squishiness+AOE

with the 3 specs currently available for every class, we could already be at that point.

To be honest once we get a third elite spec for all classes we might start seeing some better balance between them but I don’t really understand why it can’t be done now and just leave a role hole for current classes till the third comes along. Though some aspects are broken on an entirely conceptual level like FB tomes tanking guard support to a level it’s almost impossible to see balanced vs anything else without massive power creep.

[Jski.6180]

The elite spec have comply flipped this type of balancing on its head all though it never seemed to be that big of a balancing point in gw2.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Napo.1230 said:Yeah melee rev vs scourge it's pretty much suicide. I'd be happy for Necro to lose all that vomit aoe cancer in exchange for some ranged options

Shiro burst and bait scourge to deploy its fields, dodge back swap to hammer and pray to RNG that u will melt the scourges faster then he melts u lol.... it is a powercreep bet game.

Still lame as f* both ways, that isnt decent combat nor gameplay just spam, who spams better and harder wins.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shining One.1635 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:what is the hard counter for your ranger that he cant escape?Mirage. I might be able to escape if I played Staff Druid, but I don't.

then anyone can kill my deadeye if i wasnt running shadow arts, but i do. (oke necros still couldnt)

@"Clownmug.8357" said:A power Mirage with Evasive Mirror could be a possible counter for Deadeye, don't know about Thieves in general though.

the problem is , he is asking for some build that can guarantee a kill. if i run around the map while not leaving permastealth till i get to a target that i do want to kill, then i dont think a power mirage is able to get me out of stealth and force a kill if i just aim to survive and avoid the fight. and i think power mirage while i need to be very careful approaching them, has a huge weakness against a deadeye : too squishy. if i attack with rifle then yes i will probably die but i attack power mes allways with dagger and hope i do get a crit, before i post numbers and get answers that 'no they dont hit that high' just an example of last week against power mirage in his SMC, his object aura for extra thoughness and still overkill :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF75Qv-gQIQ

oh and altho it might look a bit like it but he was not afk, i was already in there for 2 hrs and you see him moving at the beginning into the lord for whatever reason.if this hit does not crit and i 'only' got a ~90% crit chance at that moment, i am probably dead.

but i do think a well played ranger should kill me if i dare to attack him - sadly hard to find one.

Personally, I hate tricks like that: swapping traits or weapons before getting locked in combat to get a stronger opening burst.

[bq pd.2148]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shining One.1635 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:what is the hard counter for your ranger that he cant escape?Mirage. I might be able to escape if I played Staff Druid, but I don't.

then anyone can kill my deadeye if i wasnt running shadow arts, but i do. (oke necros still couldnt)

@"Clownmug.8357" said:A power Mirage with Evasive Mirror could be a possible counter for Deadeye, don't know about Thieves in general though.

the problem is , he is asking for some build that can guarantee a kill. if i run around the map while not leaving permastealth till i get to a target that i do want to kill, then i dont think a power mirage is able to get me out of stealth and force a kill if i just aim to survive and avoid the fight. and i think power mirage while i need to be very careful approaching them, has a huge weakness against a deadeye : too squishy. if i attack with rifle then yes i will probably die but i attack power mes allways with dagger and hope i do get a crit, before i post numbers and get answers that 'no they dont hit that high' just an example of last week against power mirage in his SMC, his object aura for extra thoughness and still overkill :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF75Qv-gQIQ

oh and altho it might look a bit like it but he was not afk, i was already in there for 2 hrs and you see him moving at the beginning into the lord for whatever reason.if this hit does not crit and i 'only' got a ~90% crit chance at that moment, i am probably dead.

but i do think a well played ranger should kill me if i dare to attack him - sadly hard to find one.

Personally, I hate tricks like that: swapping traits or weapons before getting locked in combat to get a stronger opening burst.

în that case it was mainly for the protection not the higher burst, because as you can see i have a bit of trouble with the npcs already - now imagine that BS wouldnt have been a crit. and personally i do hate many things i encounter.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shining One.1635 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:what is the hard counter for your ranger that he cant escape?Mirage. I might be able to escape if I played Staff Druid, but I don't.

then anyone can kill my deadeye if i wasnt running shadow arts, but i do. (oke necros still couldnt)

@"Clownmug.8357" said:A power Mirage with Evasive Mirror could be a possible counter for Deadeye, don't know about Thieves in general though.

the problem is , he is asking for some build that can guarantee a kill. if i run around the map while not leaving permastealth till i get to a target that i do want to kill, then i dont think a power mirage is able to get me out of stealth and force a kill if i just aim to survive and avoid the fight. and i think power mirage while i need to be very careful approaching them, has a huge weakness against a deadeye : too squishy. if i attack with rifle then yes i will probably die but i attack power mes allways with dagger and hope i do get a crit, before i post numbers and get answers that 'no they dont hit that high' just an example of last week against power mirage in his SMC, his object aura for extra thoughness and still overkill :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF75Qv-gQIQ

oh and altho it might look a bit like it but he was not afk, i was already in there for 2 hrs and you see him moving at the beginning into the lord for whatever reason.if this hit does not crit and i 'only' got a ~90% crit chance at that moment, i am probably dead.

but i do think a well played ranger should kill me if i dare to attack him - sadly hard to find one.

Personally, I hate tricks like that: swapping traits or weapons before getting locked in combat to get a stronger opening burst.

în that case it was mainly for the protection not the higher burst, because as you can see i have a bit of trouble with the npcs already - now imagine that BS wouldnt have been a crit. and personally i do hate many things i encounter.

It's an example of why marking a target should put the deadeye in combat. No other profession or elite spec gets to passively generate a damage bonus against a target while also being free to manipulate traits.

[bq pd.2148]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shining One.1635 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:what is the hard counter for your ranger that he cant escape?Mirage. I might be able to escape if I played Staff Druid, but I don't.

then anyone can kill my deadeye if i wasnt running shadow arts, but i do. (oke necros still couldnt)

@"Clownmug.8357" said:A power Mirage with Evasive Mirror could be a possible counter for Deadeye, don't know about Thieves in general though.

the problem is , he is asking for some build that can guarantee a kill. if i run around the map while not leaving permastealth till i get to a target that i do want to kill, then i dont think a power mirage is able to get me out of stealth and force a kill if i just aim to survive and avoid the fight. and i think power mirage while i need to be very careful approaching them, has a huge weakness against a deadeye : too squishy. if i attack with rifle then yes i will probably die but i attack power mes allways with dagger and hope i do get a crit, before i post numbers and get answers that 'no they dont hit that high' just an example of last week against power mirage in his SMC, his object aura for extra thoughness and still overkill :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF75Qv-gQIQ

oh and altho it might look a bit like it but he was not afk, i was already in there for 2 hrs and you see him moving at the beginning into the lord for whatever reason.if this hit does not crit and i 'only' got a ~90% crit chance at that moment, i am probably dead.

but i do think a well played ranger should kill me if i dare to attack him - sadly hard to find one.

Personally, I hate tricks like that: swapping traits or weapons before getting locked in combat to get a stronger opening burst.

în that case it was mainly for the protection not the higher burst, because as you can see i have a bit of trouble with the npcs already - now imagine that BS wouldnt have been a crit. and personally i do hate many things i encounter.

It's an example of why marking a target should put the deadeye in combat. No other profession or elite spec gets to passively generate a damage bonus against a target while also being free to manipulate traits.

you might see that a little one sided. when i mark a target, without getting into combat means i am probably a stealth camping deadeye as other builds often include something comming with the mark that will set you in combat. in this case you can assume you will have some time and can also switch weapons/traits/utilities to prepare for a deadeye. above someone said he needs sic em for a deadeye but is not running it normally - well that is exactly the time were you can switch it in. also quite a few people teleport away if i mark them and dont put them right into combat, you would take their escape option aswell.

as for the passively generating damage bonus, i dont think that is an advantage. other damage bonuses ingame are inherent by just traitchoice or conditions such as 'not full endurance' etc. and this is the only damage bonus that you have to wait for, the reason there is such a long time between mark and burst , the reason why so many people are able to avoid a deadly DJ.

but that is probably a topic for another thread, feel free to open one.

[Catchyfx.5768]

I Think another hard counter for reaper(core too) Is mirage. He just Vanish your class mechanic(low or none LF Regen(if you have spectral Armor you Are ok). Reaper or core necro Is Forced to be very agressive, because have poor defence (with reaper almost none) so you try to pressure your enemy ,bate dodges And def.abilities out by canceling animations etc. And then strike. You have CD on shroud So cast gravedigger And Force enemy to dodge so you buy 1-2 sec of time, but mirage just Kill you while dodging. Samé goes for condiclanse. We Are Forced to hit enemy to get cleansed. And this Is sometime hardcore, cuz you Can't use IT while you need IT thé most but when you have a Chance land thé hit.

[Eramonster.2718]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:I Think another hard counter for reaper(core too) Is mirage. He just Vanish your class mechanic(low or none LF Regen(if you have spectral Armor you Are ok). Reaper or core necro Is Forced to be very agressive, because have poor defence (with reaper almost none) so you try to pressure your enemy ,bate dodges And def.abilities out by canceling animations etc. And then strike. You have CD on shroud So cast gravedigger And Force enemy to dodge so you buy 1-2 sec of time, but mirage just Kill you while dodging. Samé goes for condiclanse. We Are Forced to hit enemy to get cleansed. And this Is sometime hardcore, cuz you Can't use IT while you need IT thé most but when you have a Chance land thé hit.

You know what they say; if you manage to land a hit on a Mirage in a 1v1, it's because they let you :joy: .

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shining One.1635 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:what is the hard counter for your ranger that he cant escape?Mirage. I might be able to escape if I played Staff Druid, but I don't.

then anyone can kill my deadeye if i wasnt running shadow arts, but i do. (oke necros still couldnt)

@"Clownmug.8357" said:A power Mirage with Evasive Mirror could be a possible counter for Deadeye, don't know about Thieves in general though.

the problem is , he is asking for some build that can guarantee a kill. if i run around the map while not leaving permastealth till i get to a target that i do want to kill, then i dont think a power mirage is able to get me out of stealth and force a kill if i just aim to survive and avoid the fight. and i think power mirage while i need to be very careful approaching them, has a huge weakness against a deadeye : too squishy. if i attack with rifle then yes i will probably die but i attack power mes allways with dagger and hope i do get a crit, before i post numbers and get answers that 'no they dont hit that high' just an example of last week against power mirage in his SMC, his object aura for extra thoughness and still overkill :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF75Qv-gQIQ

oh and altho it might look a bit like it but he was not afk, i was already in there for 2 hrs and you see him moving at the beginning into the lord for whatever reason.if this hit does not crit and i 'only' got a ~90% crit chance at that moment, i am probably dead.

but i do think a well played ranger should kill me if i dare to attack him - sadly hard to find one.

Personally, I hate tricks like that: swapping traits or weapons before getting locked in combat to get a stronger opening burst.

în that case it was mainly for the protection not the higher burst, because as you can see i have a bit of trouble with the npcs already - now imagine that BS wouldnt have been a crit. and personally i do hate many things i encounter.

It's an example of why marking a target should put the deadeye in combat. No other profession or elite spec gets to passively generate a damage bonus against a target while also being free to manipulate traits.

Well, at least the mark tells you what's coming, and maybe gives you time to apply lubricant before the inevitable o_0

[Axl.8924]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shining One.1635 said:I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what the hard counter is for Deadeye (or Thieves in general). By hard counter, I mean if I see them while running the hard counter, they are dead whether they want to fight me or not. In general, when I find a necro alone on most of my ranger builds or my DE (which I rarely play and is running my PVE gear), the necro dies whether he wants to fight me or not.

what is the hard counter for your ranger that he cant escape?

I can answer that.Classes with lotsa cc and spammable infinite buffs and massive burst like mesmers can be tough, and scourge for me is kinda tough too because i gotta get close.When i play teef S/D getting close to a scourge is dangerous because some people in the match auto put buffs on me and the scourge fears me and then corrupts all the boons, and if there is anyone else there focusing me, i'm as good as dead.

[bq pd.2148]

@Axl.8924 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shining One.1635 said:I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what the hard counter is for Deadeye (or Thieves in general). By hard counter, I mean if I see them while running the hard counter, they are dead whether they want to fight me or not. In general, when I find a necro alone on most of my ranger builds or my DE (which I rarely play and is running my PVE gear), the necro dies whether he wants to fight me or not.

what is the hard counter for your ranger that he cant escape?

I can answer that.Classes with lotsa cc and spammable infinite buffs and massive burst like mesmers can be tough, and scourge for me is kinda tough too because i gotta get close.When i play teef S/D getting close to a scourge is dangerous because some people in the match auto put buffs on me and the scourge fears me and then corrupts all the boons, and if there is anyone else there focusing me, i'm as good as dead.

does not answer my question, sry.only nekro has such a huge disadvantage in smallscale , that he cant get rid off no matter the build.

[FASTCAR.7831]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:In my other thread, I spoke about nerfing invis on Deadeyes as a Necro and saw a couple of slightly off-topic replies implying that Range/Mobility effectively counters Necro especially Scourge.

I hope to ask a simple question to make people rethink their stand that it is okay or working as intended for Necros to be hardcountered by Range/Mobility.

My simple question is, name one elite spec or one form of play-style or even one type of build that makes your class helpless in a solo encounter.

To my limited knowledge, Necros are the only ones who have such a hard counter.For example, no matter how we build our Necro, we are going to get hardcountered by a decent Range/Mobile Deadeye.Does your class have such a hard counter that no matter how you build, you are always very disadvantaged?

I have no problem with any class or build at all,solo or small man roaming in T1 or T2I do find condi WAY under powered these days as they have been negated and nurfed to death

[Axl.8924]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shining One.1635 said:I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what the hard counter is for Deadeye (or Thieves in general). By hard counter, I mean if I see them while running the hard counter, they are dead whether they want to fight me or not. In general, when I find a necro alone on most of my ranger builds or my DE (which I rarely play and is running my PVE gear), the necro dies whether he wants to fight me or not.

what is the hard counter for your ranger that he cant escape?

I can answer that.Classes with lotsa cc and spammable infinite buffs and massive burst like mesmers can be tough, and scourge for me is kinda tough too because i gotta get close.When i play teef S/D getting close to a scourge is dangerous because some people in the match auto put buffs on me and the scourge fears me and then corrupts all the boons, and if there is anyone else there focusing me, i'm as good as dead.

does not answer my question, sry.only nekro has such a huge disadvantage in smallscale , that he cant get rid off no matter the build.

Sure it does.

Its not as large a disadvantage as necro, but its a disadvantage, Thats why you got thieves that go S/D, because of unblockabes needed for invulns and defensives that other classes have.D/P isn't able to match as easily against those guys as S/D

[bq pd.2148]

@Axl.8924 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shining One.1635 said:I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what the hard counter is for Deadeye (or Thieves in general). By hard counter, I mean if I see them while running the hard counter, they are dead whether they want to fight me or not. In general, when I find a necro alone on most of my ranger builds or my DE (which I rarely play and is running my PVE gear), the necro dies whether he wants to fight me or not.

what is the hard counter for your ranger that he cant escape?

I can answer that.Classes with lotsa cc and spammable infinite buffs and massive burst like mesmers can be tough, and scourge for me is kinda tough too because i gotta get close.When i play teef S/D getting close to a scourge is dangerous because some people in the match auto put buffs on me and the scourge fears me and then corrupts all the boons, and if there is anyone else there focusing me, i'm as good as dead.

does not answer my question, sry.only nekro has such a huge disadvantage in smallscale , that he cant get rid off no matter the build.

Sure it does.

Its not as large a disadvantage as necro, but its a disadvantage, Thats why you got thieves that go S/D, because of unblockabes needed for invulns and defensives that other classes have.D/P isn't able to match as easily against those guys as S/D

what has s/d thief vs scourge to do with an opponent that a ranger cannot escape?

[Oozo.7856]

@Eramonster.2718 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:I Think another hard counter for reaper(core too) Is mirage. He just Vanish your class mechanic(low or none LF Regen(if you have spectral Armor you Are ok). Reaper or core necro Is Forced to be very agressive, because have poor defence (with reaper almost none) so you try to pressure your enemy ,bate dodges And def.abilities out by canceling animations etc. And then strike. You have CD on shroud So cast gravedigger And Force enemy to dodge so you buy 1-2 sec of time, but mirage just Kill you while dodging. Samé goes for condiclanse. We Are Forced to hit enemy to get cleansed. And this Is sometime hardcore, cuz you Can't use IT while you need IT thé most but when you have a Chance land thé hit.

You know what they say; if you manage to land a hit on a Mirage in a 1v1, it's because they let you :joy: .Or they might just be really bad at separating the player from the clones.

[Arcaedus.7290]

I like to look at it more from the angle of hard counters and soft counters.

Quick definitions:

• Soft-counters: Assuming equal skill level of two players, build A will win a slight majority (50-70% of 1v1s) against build B.

• Hard counters: Assuming equal skill level of two players, build A will win the vast majority (> 90% of 1v1s) of fights against build B.

Some classes have builds that have no hard-counters and only a handful of soft-counters (medi trapper DH is a good example I think). Then there are other classes that no matter how they construct their build, they will be (or nearly be) hard-countered by a single build on some other class. In general, the latter scenario seems to be a lot more common for necro than for other classes. I've observed this playing both as and against necros.

While I don't think this is okay, some consolation is that necros can pull off carnage of the likes that no other class can in XvX or larger scale fights so it's not like the entire class is short-handed. It's just not built for roaming given its current tool set.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Everything I play vs Holosmiths. They are strong and tricky lil basstards