GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Ashen.2907]

I do not know if this was the final incident in a series of such where attempts to encourage improved behavior went ignored, or if this single incid3nt was considered sufficiently severe to merit termination. I had hoped that the parties involved would be given an opportunity to change the offending behavior without loss of livelihood. I do not wish unemployment on anyone in this day and age. Hopefully this all works out for the best for all involved.

I hope that those who have moved on are able to self reflect and grow from the experience. Good luck to them. I hope that this is an opportunity for some new blood to have an impact on the game. Good luck to us all.

[will de grijze jager.6594]

@saerni.2584 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:

@saerni.2584 said:Disappointing. As a practical matter it was likely the only option from a business perspective.

But, I’m sad to see a woman in game development brought down by cries of misandry and reverse-racism. It’s not a good look to wear. It’s another Gamer-gate.

Ever heard of who cares that someone is a guy or a girl if they do their jobe it is fine. who cares if someone is a girl of boy it is the person that matters not the race gender or what ever. If a person is not nice it doesn't matter that the person is. It is called looking at the person not there race gender or what ever.

Representation matters. And the number of posts that were explicitly and implicitly sexist were pretty high. I’m not saying she shouldn’t have lost her job given the uproar. I’m saying that in the rush to judgment by the community context was lost and a number of people called for her head using language that originated in the alt-right.

No, not everyone supporting her firing is alt right. That’s not the point. The point is that alt right discourse is being normalized. As a minority in some contexts this is incredibly discouraging to me. How should I respond to that?

When the mob wins it wants more. Who will it come for next?

Here it goes. You can't see that it is not alt right to think that actions have consequences. If it was a male dev he was fire 10 times over. It is really normal for a business to fire people that attack their custemors. That you don't see it often on the left is, because you attack each other always no one is save and the are allowed to the most horrable things and get a way with it on the left. That is not how the real world works. If you fuck up like that you will get fired. It is nothing to od with alt right or what ever.

[cmpgamer.9628]

@Blademaster.6123 said:Mo, You can't let the community get away with this. The community is just as guilty here, don't bend to their will.

Too late now. She's fired and I bet she's not coming back.

[xarallei.4279]

It's sad that it had to come to this, but I 100% agree with Anet's stance. Twitter is NOT some kind of private blog. It's a public forum. If you start talking about the popular video game you work on, then you should damn well expect that people will respond and try to have a discussion with you about it. If you don't want to have a discussion, then perhaps you need to consider making your post private. Whether you are "on the clock" or not, your behavior in a public setting reflects upon the company you work for, especially if you are interacting with customers of said company. Her treatment of customers was simply not acceptable.

[Tolmos.8395]

@Word Eater.6541 said:

@"Mike O Brien.4613" said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Can I give a thumbs down for yet another company that encourages employees to be open and honest and then punishes them for it? Send her to some training, kitten, but this basically blacklists her forever and ever. Good job proving her point, I guess.

Truthfully, if she can learn from what happened here and be able to honestly tell an interviewer that she messed up and has realized she was wrong, I think she'll bounce back. She worked at Arenanet; regardless of individual gripes people may have, this is a huge company with one of the top rated AAA MMOs on the market. The experience and knowledge she gained there will be valuable for future employers. If I got her at the interview table, and she could look me in the eye and say "Yea, I screwed up. I was wrong, I see that now", I'd hire her in a heartbeat.

Experience is valuable. Being a loose cannon and a danger to the corporate image devalues that experience, so if that is corrected then she'll be OK.

[Xenash.1245]

@VCRwolfe.6452 said:

@Xenash.1245 said:I also agree that the termination of Peter Fries was interesting to say the least from what we currently and probably ever will know.

But I just felt like I had to say that if you want to convince members of this community about something wrong of their actions, that it might be best to frame it in a more tasteful manner. Saying that this incident has made you feel unsafe from being a minority in many ways isn't going to sit well with the players as it comes across as if many are needlessly hostile towards those of a different race/gender/etc. when they sincerely aren't. If anything this community as a whole is one of the most friendliest and more welcoming communities that I've seen out there when compared to almost every other online gaming environment, I'd even go so far to say that you're bound to find more unfriendly people on something like Hello Kitty Online compared to Guild Wars 2.

WvW players are a different story though, but they have a reason to be really salty most of the time.

oh trust me, ive played other games! while its great that this one has been the most welcoming ive seen in a long time, there is still the issue of those who are generally hateful to minorities. the gw2 community isnt free of them either and its something i can sadly attest to having played this game for a few years now. i am not saying this in any hostility, its simply the sad reality of gaming communities and the pushback experienced by minorities in them. even just looking at the subreddit has been super uncomfortable today, people decrying that social justice is ruining their game and they wont play it anymore when really, this issue is just about JP's sour behavior and not any sort of feminist agenda anet was pushing

I believe the social justice bit came about when people started digging around through Jessica's twitter history and came across some rather unsavory things, and to be fair I couldn't even say they were totally wrong after seeing what she said about the passing of total biscuit. And if it helps at all I don't believe anyone is really trying to focus on any certain race or gender when they make rather brash statements about social justice type matters but rather just the mentalities they see in others. It might seem and might even be true enough to some extent that some people might paint some women as being an SJW(or whatever really) but I believe that's only because the most notable people that have come from that mindset have just simply been women.

When it comes to any push back towards minorities and such, I truly believe the people that would have such a mentality are just simply in the minority. There's some people out there that prefer the company of certain types of people more so then others, the most notable that I've seen over the years being the awkward teenagers that don't quite know how to interact with the opposite sex quite yet.

The more I think about this, the more I think I might be a bit biased in this affair since I personally enjoy the company of everyone until I've given a reason not to. Sorry if this went a bit off course in any way, I think my tired mind might be rambling a bit now.

[Skyroar.2974]

@"Word Eater.6541" said:Can I give a thumbs down for yet another company that encourages employees to be open and honest and then punishes them for it? Send her to some training, kitten, but this basically blacklists her forever and ever. Good job proving her point, I guess.

She was not punished for being "open and honest". She was punished for insulting the community.

[Cambeleg.7632]

@Word Eater.6541 said:

Can I give a thumbs down for yet another company that encourages employees to be open and honest and then punishes them for it? Send her to some training, kitten, but this basically blacklists her forever and ever. Good job proving her point, I guess.

Don't be wrong about the point. One thing is being open and honest, and a different thing is acting disrespectfully when you get negative reviews of your job. Jessica Price acted wrongly with her replies when being criticised, taking it to the wrong side when pretending the critics were sexist attacks 'cos she's a woman. No. She wasn't criticised 'cos her gender, but 'cos there was people who disagreed with her job. It's very, very different.

About Peter Fries... I don't understand him. It was obvious how huge failure commited JP... and still, her had to talk, and using similar terms. Honestly, one should think before entering in a discussion like this.

And about what some people is mentioning. AMAs and devs' communication shouldn't be affected at all 'cos this happened. On the oppoiste side, this should show how not to react when being criticised. There is always the chance to discuss what and why, but keeping the right manners.

[Cyrin.1035]

@Dengar.1785 said:I... Feel bad for Peter Fries. Did he deserve some sort of disciplinary measure? Sure. Did he deserve the same thing as Jessica Price? I don't think so.

For that matter, my mind is in all sorts of places about the firing. I understand this was a really hard decision to make, and I accept that being let go is a logical consequence to JP's behavior. Still, something about this doesn't feel quite right.

Peter had been there far longer than Jessica. He's a GW 2 vet and knows better. He knew the importance and consequence of his actions and he unfortunately made the wrong one. He could have tried to calm the conversation or steer it. Instead he just sided with JP's responses and consistently, over several posts, defended her responses. He should have helped Jessica by encouraging her to let it go and they would both still have their positions. In that way, he is just as responsible as JP and therefore deserved the same result.

[Preyar.6783]

Great job MO <3

[style.6173]

Really impressed by the way MO handled this situation. That kind of hate towards the community was unacceptable. She needed to be fired. Also, it provides a lesson to others. Do not blindly support someone who is causing hate. You may believe you are defending a co-worker, but what you really are doing is defending hate. You deserve the same punishment.

Also I hope the keyboard warriors in the game community can show some respect to the rest of the Anet employees. The game is coming up on 6 years and still going strong. They have a great product and are working to make it even better.

[Erasculio.2914]

@Tolmos.8395 said:Truthfully, if she can learn from what happened here and be able to honestly tell an interviewer that she messed up and has realized she was wrong, I think she'll bounce back.I doubt that will happen, but there's another option for her: to be hired by someone who shares her beliefs, and who thinks the fact she was fired is one more sign of the damage the patriarchy fueled by cis privileged white men does to the world. You can already see people with a similar mindset in this topic, it's not unlikely that the former dev will find someone like that to hire her.

Which is a pity, because then nothing will be learned from this whole thing.

[Walhalla.5473]

@Word Eater.6541 said:

@Mike O Brien.4613 said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Can I give a thumbs down for yet another company that encourages employees to be open and honest and then punishes them for it? Send her to some training, kitten, but this basically blacklists her forever and ever. Good job proving her point, I guess.

Open and honest? Have you read the entire thing? JP played the feminist card after an Anet Partner ( also customer ) responded to her big post. And instead of apologizing called him a rando asshat. You don't insult customers where everyone can see it. This whole thing went big and was the worst PR disaster in Anets history and the only way to survive this PR disaster was the instant termination of both employees

Being open and honest doesn't mean insulting and attacking your customers and community. Doing that can even kill the company and leave even more people without a job.

[why.8760]

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:

@why.8760 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:

@Ephemiel.5694 said:

@Mel.8734 said:

@"Mike O Brien.4613" said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Please also take a good look at this employe:

https://i.imgur.com/vXbH8BN.png

Oh so there's MORE of these kinds of people in Anet's employment. Starting to think the company of full of them.

You mean kitten types?

please give me a break, they are and have always been located in seattle. You can easily follow the entire team on social media, it is really hard to pretend to say you don't know who and what they are and believe in. They are allowed their personal beliefs, and that should not matter and has no place in a fantasy game.

There is a gigantic and massive difference between personal beliefs and attacking fans in a game that has a long standing tradition of always wanting the entire community to always give feedback, criticism, and interaction, both in game and out. The community has members that have added just as much to the game as actual Anet employees, because that is what Anet has wanted and that is the community they have cultivated from the very beginning of GW1. Has zero to do with beliefs and everything to do with actions.

it is difference that you are left lening or s J W. Left is not bad if you don't go extrem. S J W are extrem. I respect everyone's opinion if they stay nice to each other. I look at how someone is not at there idea's, but S J W do only look at the idea's gender and so on.

You can be pure evil in real life, but if you work for a company, believe in that company, and put that company's ideals first you can be a great employee. Politics should have nothing to do with it, and the fact Anet was able to separate this persons politics from their actions is a wonderful thing and a huge win for them. You cannot just group any everyone into any group, the real world never ever works that way. This situation is about actions, not politics.

[Dengar.1785]

@Cyrin.1035 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:I... Feel bad for Peter Fries. Did he deserve some sort of disciplinary measure? Sure. Did he deserve the same thing as Jessica Price? I don't think so.

For that matter, my mind is in all sorts of places about the firing. I understand this was a really hard decision to make, and I accept that being let go is a logical consequence to JP's behavior. Still, something about this doesn't feel quite right.

Peter had been there far longer than Jessica. He's a GW 2 vet and knows better. He knew the importance and consequence of his actions and he unfortunately made the wrong one. He could have tried to calm the conversation or steer it. Instead he just sided with JP's responses and consistently, over several posts, defended her responses. He should have helped Jessica by encouraging her to let it go and they would both still have their positions. In that way, he is just as responsible as JP and therefore deserved the same result.

You know, I can't say you're wrong here. Still, if we talk feelings, it just doesn't really feel right. It's hard to explain.

Anyway, I think there are people on both sides of the argument who are having a bit of a misunderstanding.

This isn't about JP's twitter past. This is about JP's twitter present. She engaged with an important member of the community as well as other community members, and was very rude to them. This isn't about sexism or racism or sjws or alt right or whatever. Her views aren't what matters. What matters is she made the mistake of displaying unacceptable behavior towards the people who pay her bills.

[Antherios.4517]

@Balsa.3951 said:

@"Mike O Brien.4613" said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Sad person looses job over a tweet... I just wonder how many people here would still have their jobs if that standard was applied to themselves.

I work for one of the big companies in tech. But you don't see that in my forum signature, twitter profile or anywhere else.She had "Arenanet Story Developer" on her twitter profile and was constantly talking about her work on it. Which is fine, unless you also use it to vent your personal views and rant against people.

Work profiles and personal profiles should not mix.

[Palador.2170]

@Mike O Brien.4613 said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

I only just found out about this whole mess today, and action has already been taken. Thank you, Mr O Brien, for taking this seriously and addressing it so quickly.

As for how they were punished? Well, I can't really say much about that. There's lots of twitter stuff I've not read yet, some of it isn't even there any more. And even if I knew all of that, that still doesn't tell me what was going on behind the closed doors of ANet itself. Were they both model employees? Were they both on the verge of being terminated anyway? I don't know. Not knowing, I'll have to trust in the judgement of those that did know, and the call they made.

So, thank you again for taking this seriously and dealing with it in a prompt manner. I still feel uneasy about it all, but much less so now than I did when I first started to hear of it.

[Leonidas Spartian.3921]

Yo this whole thing was messed up. Glad this toxic behavior was stopped before it got any worse.

[grackle.8043]

@VCRwolfe.6452 said:<[snip for relevant bit]and lastly i do not agree with the toxicity i am seeing from the community as well, the sheer viciousness im seeing from other players here is frankly appalling, as if this was some sort of gleeful anti-feminist witch hunt for them rather than dealing with one problematic employee. as someone who is a minority in many ways including race and gender, it makes me feel unsafe as a player of this game even more so than arenanet's decision to let go of JP and PF in response to JP's actions

^ this bit. this right here. i'm lookin at the responses on this thread alone, and it's kinda making me think maybe this is one punk venue that ain't so punk no more. and maybe i should take my marginalized self out the door and like. find other pastures. (im mixing metaphors, but i hope it makes still sense.)

[Teratus.2859]

@Balsa.3951 said:

@Mike O Brien.4613 said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Sad person looses job over a tweet... I just wonder how many people here would still have their jobs if that standard was applied to themselves.

To my knowledge that standard is being applied to a great number of people these days when they are employed.. specially those who's social media's are affiliated or directly linked to the companies they work for.. I believe it's called a Social media clause.

Acting poorly online specially to those whom you've a professional connection to heavily damages your reputation and also makes your employer look very bad by association.Now don't get me wrong.. I am no fan of this concept either, I am completely for free speech regardless of how badly some people abuse it.. but this is a legitimate thing that does exist and I would strongly advise that everyone keep their home and work lives completely seperate, especially on their private social media accounts.

[Thiazi.1250]

Thank you for being quick to take decisive action, Anet. It probably wasn't an easy decision, but I'm glad to see that you're willing to stick up for you players like this. I wish this could have been resolved without people having to leave the company (I appreciated Jessica's openness during the recent AMA), but I understand that sometimes there isn't a perfect solution.

That said, please don't be discouraged from communicating with us in the future. I'm sure that most of the community understands this was an extreme outlier based largely on one person's repeated poor behavior, not the company's.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@"LucianDK.8615" said:I do not defend her actions, but its the sheer disgusting behavior of the community that I stand against. Theres absolutely nothing to be proud of here, even if she deserved it.

There ya go.. your agreeing with many others in this post, this community who also feel she deserved it. No one said anything about being proud of the actions taken, but good riddance to a bad egg is imo quite apt.Why do you feel that a community voicing their absolute disdain for JP over her inexcusable bad mouthing of players, disgusting behaviour???..

At the end of the day people can disagree on pretty much anything, but people like JP prefer to take disagreement to a whole different level.She chose to use a personal account and opened the floor for critique, which she handled terabad.. ..when challenged with opposing views or offered opinion she played to form and went off on one ... it was JP that was demonstrating quite clearly what" utterly disgusting behaviour" looks like imo.

As for PF.. I think it wouldn't do any harm for ANET to revisit this and maybe re-consider their action unless of course there are other things that we don't know about that swung the pendulum the way it did.

[Antherios.4517]

Also I feel a lot of people here havent worked at a big company before. This is standard procedure.

Anet will probably rework their social media rules after this and they totally should.Ive seen other people at Microsoft, JP Morgans and other companies being fired for way way WAY less.

[why.8760]

@Antherios.4517 said:

@Balsa.3951 said:

@"Mike O Brien.4613" said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Sad person looses job over a tweet... I just wonder how many people here would still have their jobs if that standard was applied to themselves.

I work for one of the big companies in tech. But you don't see that in my forum signature, twitter profile or anywhere else.She had "

Arenanet Story Developer

" on her twitter profile and was constantly talking about her work on it. Which is fine, unless you also use it to vent your personal views and rant against people.

Work profiles and personal profiles should not mix.

This is so true. I don't get why people have to show who they work for, unless part of their work description is being on social media. I'm on a bunch of different social media, good luck figuring out where I work. This should be ingrained at every corporate orientation at every company world wide.

[Cronos.6532]

Now I'm not so disappointed with this release. Gonna make Verdarach in MO's honour.