Zerker Soulbeast meta not an issue for anyone in wvw?

[ganefte.6723]

The whole power creep that has replaced the condi meta is way worse than anything before. Most people expected exactly this, but some idiots really thought "power build are so more skilled". Now you have classes that oneshot everything with no skill at all. Have fun with it.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

Those that say Soulbeast is too stronk need to get over yourself. The only people I have ever seen go down from a Soulbeast Ranger rapid fire are those that aren't paying attention. I should know, I play one. I have seen MANY people live through my Sic 'em, Strength of the Pack, Rapid Fire combo. Does it drop their HP pretty quick? Sure, but a well timed heal, dodge, or reflect has kept a lot of them alive through it. Ranger is finally in a place where it is decent for a Roamer. Still not included in zergs, but at least it can be playable now where we can roam around and hold our own in 1v1 scenarios while flipping camps. Although Mesmers and Thieves still have a leg up in that competition.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Substance E.4852 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Longbow should probably be redesigned to be a more flexible and higher skill demanding weapon toolkit in general. Literally every longbow ranger you fight on all levels of play opens the fight with Point Blank Shot > Rapid Fire. All of them. 100% of the time.

Yet again Ranger is mindless garbage that's entirely predictable while also somehow so unassailable it needs to be removed from the game.

It's not unassailable. It's just literally the most annoying thing in the game and it's the most predictable thing in the game. Even when I instagibb the ranger immediately afterwords the fight was still unfun and obnoxious. And the fact that it's a combo that has zero variance between low level and high level players, that literally ranger opens combat that way, points towards the weapon kit needing to be redesigned to be more flexible.

@Shadowcat.2680 said:@mortrialus.306260k Wordly Impacts against players don't exist in WvW. Numbers that high have only been seen in the sPvP map Coliseum with the unique buffs of that map. The most a soulbeast will see in WvW will be in the 40k range, and that's only when stacking the damage modifiers from the MM traitline. Soulbeasts defending Wordly Imparct aren't defending the damage; they're worried Anet will target nerfs at the entirely wrong thing. The skill Worldly Impact itself is not an outlier; it does somewhere around 7k-13k on most soulbeast builds. The higher damage numbers are a result of the MM traits and how they interact with soulbeast traits (Live Fast automatically gives Worldly Impact a Remorseless proc because the fury is applied before the damage). Beastly Warden in BM also gives the Worldly Impact an Attack of Opportunity proc from Moment of Clarity in MM if the taunt happens to interrupt.

You'll find that most soulbeast players would gladly welcome a rework of the MM line. The minors in it are nearly useless and typically only a gimmicky one-hit build is going to be concerned about the damage modifier traits in it (likewise, any 15k autoattack longbow builds rely on MM traits to reach that damage).

Maybe there is an infinite range pet bug, personally I've never heard of it and certainly don't know how to abuse it. Likewise, I imagine that most of the soulbeasts you accuse of abusing this bug have no clue what you're talking about.

Here, someone tested how reliable pets are at hitting moving targets:

Dude. Stop defending 40k+ Worldly Impact on the virtue of it being "glassy". Everyone can build to be just as glassy and no one comes close to literally hitting you for 27+ damage outside of shit like hundred blades and warrior Axe 5, and those are channeled melee attacks that build up tons of smaller attacks to build up to that level of damage.

It's also gross to see you defending the infinite range pet bug.

[Substance E.4852]

@"mortrialus.3062" said:It's not unassailable. It's just literally the most annoying thing in the game and it's the most predictable thing in the game.

Mirage, Nomad Eles, and "perma" block/invuln Spellbreakers exists and this is the "most annoying thing in the game"? A build with literally no sustain traits or skills? That can be defeated by uneven ground geometry?

This is the most annoying thing in the game?

I don't think you're in any position to be making value judgements tbh.

weapon kit needs to be more flexible

Every single weapon set has basically one way to play it optimally based on your build. This is probably the dumbest complaint I've seen in a long time. You just want LB to not do the only thing it's meant to do which is deal damage at range.

These are nothing but fake arguments meant to justify a nerf to something you can't handle because you're not as good as you think you are.

[ChartFish.1308]

@mortrialus.3062 said:It's also gross to see you defending the infinite range pet bug.

I like hearing about this infinite pet range bug that's apparently so common. Wonder why i've never even stumbled upon it, playing nothing but ranger (meaning i also get matched against rangers more, so you think i'd notice.).

Nobody is defending it, if you just read what they said you'd have seen they comment how nobody seems to even know its a thing. Any ranger knows about the 'your pet is too far away' message.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

@ChartFish.1308 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:It's also gross to see you defending the infinite range pet bug.

I like hearing about this infinite pet range bug that's apparently so common. Wonder why i've never even stumbled upon it, playing nothing but ranger (meaning i also get matched against rangers more, so you think i'd notice.).

Nobody is defending it, if you just read what they said you'd have seen they comment how nobody seems to even know its a thing. Any ranger knows about the 'your pet is too far away' message.

I'm curious about this pet bug too. I have not seen it. Ever. My pets never go infinitely out of range. They go a certain distance then come waddling back to me. How do I get this infinite pet range bug to work for me? If anybody has any ideas I'd like to know.

[mortrialus.3062]

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:

@ChartFish.1308 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:It's also gross to see you defending the infinite range pet bug.

I like hearing about this infinite pet range bug that's apparently so common. Wonder why i've never even stumbled upon it, playing nothing but ranger (meaning i also get matched against rangers more, so you think i'd notice.).

Nobody is defending it, if you just read what they said you'd have seen they comment how nobody seems to even know its a thing. Any ranger knows about the 'your pet is too far away' message.

I'm curious about this pet bug too. I have not seen it. Ever. My pets never go infinitely out of range. They go a certain distance then come waddling back to me. How do I get this infinite pet range bug to work for me? If anybody has any ideas I'd like to know.

No idea. All the players I've seen using this bug refuse to explain how it happens. It takes a map change to get the pet off you. Even dying and waypointing to the other side of the zone it'll still keep attacking you.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:

@ChartFish.1308 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:It's also gross to see you defending the infinite range pet bug.

I like hearing about this infinite pet range bug that's apparently so common. Wonder why i've never even stumbled upon it, playing nothing but ranger (meaning i also get matched against rangers more, so you think i'd notice.).

Nobody is defending it, if you just read what they said you'd have seen they comment how nobody seems to even know its a thing. Any ranger knows about the 'your pet is too far away' message.

I'm curious about this pet bug too. I have not seen it. Ever. My pets never go infinitely out of range. They go a certain distance then come waddling back to me. How do I get this infinite pet range bug to work for me? If anybody has any ideas I'd like to know.

No idea. All the players I've seen using this bug refuse to explain how it happens. It takes a map change to get the pet off you. Even dying and waypointing to the other side of the zone it'll still keep attacking you.

Hmmm....possible 3rd party hack program?

[mortrialus.3062]

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:

@ChartFish.1308 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:It's also gross to see you defending the infinite range pet bug.

I like hearing about this infinite pet range bug that's apparently so common. Wonder why i've never even stumbled upon it, playing nothing but ranger (meaning i also get matched against rangers more, so you think i'd notice.).

Nobody is defending it, if you just read what they said you'd have seen they comment how nobody seems to even know its a thing. Any ranger knows about the 'your pet is too far away' message.

I'm curious about this pet bug too. I have not seen it. Ever. My pets never go infinitely out of range. They go a certain distance then come waddling back to me. How do I get this infinite pet range bug to work for me? If anybody has any ideas I'd like to know.

No idea. All the players I've seen using this bug refuse to explain how it happens. It takes a map change to get the pet off you. Even dying and waypointing to the other side of the zone it'll still keep attacking you.

Hmmm....possible 3rd party hack program?

No idea. I've only seen it with smokescale. What it looks like is the smokescale stands still but continues to attack and all it's attacks will function as if you are in range. When it uses smoke assault it'll change position to you then keep auto attacking. When you die and go to a safe zone in WvW you'll still see it's still throwing attacks on you despite being invulnerable and when you leave the safe zone you'll start taking damage.

[Traveller.7496]

The most annoying part about the SB is not the damage of the burst, it's their ability to disengage and escape so effectively, yet they can be shooting you in the back in a heartbeat.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

@Traveller.7496 said:The most annoying part about the SB is not the damage of the burst, it's their ability to disengage and escape so effectively, yet they can be shooting you in the back in a heartbeat.

Kinda like Thieves and Mesmers?

[bigo.9037]

The real problem with soulbeasts is actually how they can achieve decent single target dmg while having really high sustain because of boons like regen and protection.but that probably wont be adressed for a while cus everyone is still using the zerk 1shot, one trick pony builds :)

[Shadowcat.2680]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Substance E.4852 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Longbow should probably be redesigned to be a more flexible and higher skill demanding weapon toolkit in general. Literally every longbow ranger you fight on all levels of play opens the fight with Point Blank Shot > Rapid Fire. All of them. 100% of the time.

Yet again Ranger is mindless garbage that's entirely predictable while also somehow so unassailable it needs to be removed from the game.

It's not unassailable. It's just literally the most annoying thing in the game and it's the most predictable thing in the game. Even when I instagibb the ranger immediately afterwords the fight was still unfun and obnoxious. And the fact that it's a combo that has zero variance between low level and high level players, that literally ranger opens combat that way, points towards the weapon kit needing to be redesigned to be more flexible.

@Shadowcat.2680 said:@mortrialus.306260k Wordly Impacts against players don't exist in WvW. Numbers that high have only been seen in the sPvP map Coliseum with the unique buffs of that map. The most a soulbeast will see in WvW will be in the 40k range, and that's only when stacking the damage modifiers from the MM traitline. Soulbeasts defending Wordly Imparct aren't defending the damage; they're worried Anet will target nerfs at the entirely wrong thing. The skill Worldly Impact itself is not an outlier; it does somewhere around 7k-13k on most soulbeast builds. The higher damage numbers are a result of the MM traits and how they interact with soulbeast traits (Live Fast automatically gives Worldly Impact a Remorseless proc because the fury is applied before the damage). Beastly Warden in BM also gives the Worldly Impact an Attack of Opportunity proc from Moment of Clarity in MM if the taunt happens to interrupt.

You'll find that most soulbeast players would gladly welcome a rework of the MM line. The minors in it are nearly useless and typically only a gimmicky one-hit build is going to be concerned about the damage modifier traits in it (likewise, any 15k autoattack longbow builds rely on MM traits to reach that damage).

Maybe there is an infinite range pet bug, personally I've never heard of it and certainly don't know how to abuse it. Likewise, I imagine that most of the soulbeasts you accuse of abusing this bug have no clue what you're talking about.

Here, someone tested how reliable pets are at hitting moving targets:

Dude. Stop defending 40k+ Worldly Impact on the virtue of it being "glassy". Everyone can build to be just as glassy and no one comes close to literally hitting you for 27+ damage outside of kitten like hundred blades and warrior Axe 5, and those are channeled melee attacks that build up tons of smaller attacks to build up to that level of damage.

It's also gross to see you defending the infinite range pet bug.

You didn't read what I wrote if you think my post was in defense of the damage possible because of those traits. Nor is my post somehow a defense of a bug I've never encountered or heard about from anyone.

[ganefte.6723]

I wish Anet would at least try to balance this shit out. Scale down power damage from most medium armor classes or cut a piece of their gimmick (stealth, invul, soulbeast dps), nerf spellbreaker (and core warrior) either on sustain or damage, change the deadeye elite to not counter reveal, in generell get rid of high burst skills that can kill players almost instantly.While at it, fix LoS issues. grass doesn't block projectiles. Really, it doesn't.Make reveal last longer and make getting hit in stealth apply a daze to the thief that you can't break by shadowstep or anything.

This roaming meta is just annoying as fuck and forces people into cheese builds.

[Shining One.1635]

As far as roaming builds are concerned, I find Soulbeast one of the less irritating ones. We fight and they die or I die... usually in a short period of time. I'd rather fight and die against a Soulbeast in 1 minute than spend 10 minutes fighting an annoying Deadeye and win.

[bigo.9037]

@geist.9173 said:I wish Anet would at least try to balance this kitten out. Scale down power damage from most medium armor classes or cut a piece of their gimmick (stealth, invul, soulbeast dps), nerf spellbreaker (and core warrior) either on sustain or damage, change the deadeye elite to not counter reveal, in generell get rid of high burst skills that can kill players almost instantly.While at it, fix LoS issues. grass doesn't block projectiles. Really, it doesn't.Make reveal last longer and make getting hit in stealth apply a daze to the thief that you can't break by shadowstep or anything.

This roaming meta is just annoying as kitten and forces people into cheese builds.

omg dude xD i get that DE's are super annoying but if you make their elite not remove reveal... and revealing them dazes them with no ability to stunbreak? XDDDthat would just completely destroy the whole class. the biggest issue i have with DE right now is their mobility.

[bigo.9037]

@geist.9173 said:I wish Anet would at least try to balance this kitten out. Scale down power damage from most medium armor classes or cut a piece of their gimmick (stealth, invul, soulbeast dps), nerf spellbreaker (and core warrior) either on sustain or damage, change the deadeye elite to not counter reveal, in generell get rid of high burst skills that can kill players almost instantly.While at it, fix LoS issues. grass doesn't block projectiles. Really, it doesn't.Make reveal last longer and make getting hit in stealth apply a daze to the thief that you can't break by shadowstep or anything.

This roaming meta is just annoying as kitten and forces people into cheese builds.

also i really cant help but wonder what spec/class youre playing?i mean i agree i think anet should nerf the ability to basically 1 shot people. i dont think thats how its supposed to be cus a lot of the time its really hard to counterplay a 1shot unless you see it coming ahead of time. riflewar used to be good at 1shotting people but it had a relatively easy tell and a long cast time with no stealth. but mesmer 1 shots still happen to me every now and then and its super frustrating especially when you arent ready for it. DE's havent been able to 1shot me for quite a while now... but mesmers still do.

[ganefte.6723]

I roam on Necro most of the time. Even with a full glass build my damage is below that of a ranger, thief, mesmer or engi and all of them have higher mobility, more dodges, more stun breaks, access to stealth. "yadda, yadda, don't play necro" isn't an excuse for balancing issues like that. I don't want to cheese roaming I want to have an option for my class that can compete.And none of the above mentioned is "balanced". When a mesmer kills me from stealth while I have 40% shroud and almost full hp left that's a fucked up balancing, when I'm not able to deal equal damage or at least tank it.And yes, nerf the shit out of deadeye elite. It's ridiculous that a class can negate every tool you have against it. There shouldn't be something that hard counters a mechanic that was created (reveal) to counter an already imbalanced mechanic like stealth.I have no problems with skills that you can "actively" dodge because you see them (reaper gs skills, revenant hammer, etc) but getting hit out of stealth for over 50% of your health pool is utterly stupid - especially on classes with high mobilty, stealth, endless dodge, stun breaks. If I go high dps on reaper, I have no access to stealth, I'm not highly mobile, I'm tanky with my 18k hp shroud and I can hit hard (with all skills telegraphed), I sacrifce condi cleanse, etc.

[bq pd.2148]

i dont get why as a necro you care about deadeye elite, thats the least of your problems. why would a deadeye even need stealth against a necro? certainly not for the invisibility, only for traits like hidden killer and to gain access to stealth attacks but invisibility is far from needed against a necro.

your necro can perfectly compete in WvW with any thief or mesmer or ranger but not in the role of a roamer, yet overall you are much more needed as in any groupfight with babysitters from smallscale to largescale your boonhate is superb.i still dont understand why for fractals , raiding, spvp people play builds that are needed for the roles they want to fill, yet when it comes to WvW people solo roam on a necro and zerg on a scepter ele. why do people in WvW think it is like OW 'everything works'. i mean it does to some extent if you run into the right opponents, but you cant expect to compete with builds that are more optimal for the role you want to fill.

[ChartFish.1308]

@"geist.9173" said:I roam on Necro most of the time. Even with a full glass build my damage is below that of a ranger, thief, mesmer or engi and all of them have higher mobility, more dodges, more stun breaks, access to stealth. "yadda, yadda, don't play necro" isn't an excuse for balancing issues like that. I don't want to cheese roaming I want to have an option for my class that can compete.And none of the above mentioned is "balanced". When a mesmer kills me from stealth while I have 40% shroud and almost full hp left that's a kitten up balancing, when I'm not able to deal equal damage or at least tank it.And yes, nerf the kitten out of deadeye elite. It's ridiculous that a class can negate every tool you have against it. There shouldn't be something that hard counters a mechanic that was created (reveal) to counter an already imbalanced mechanic like stealth.I have no problems with skills that you can "actively" dodge because you see them (reaper gs skills, revenant hammer, etc) but getting hit out of stealth for over 50% of your health pool is utterly stupid - especially on classes with high mobilty, stealth, endless dodge, stun breaks. If I go high dps on reaper, I have no access to stealth, I'm not highly mobile, I'm tanky with my 18k hp shroud and I can hit hard (with all skills telegraphed), I sacrifce condi cleanse, etc.

Thats kinda why necroes are on the low end of the dmg spectrum. Because your class mechanic is literally another HP pool, a free 'extra life', a free of charge damage tank. You have to sacrifice nothing to get that extra 18k "hp", it's just there. It's your class mechanic. You can build yourself as crazy glassy as you want, you'll still have that 18k hp waiting for you. Its not your fault as a necro, it's just class design.

Other classes need ways to sustain too. Some are mobile, some negate damage, some keep you from applying damage. It's what makes each class different, how they approach survivability and sustain. Guardians block, thieves evade, warriors negate. But nothing is endless. Not even a acrobatics trickery d/d daredevil can keep dodging forever.

[ganefte.6723]

I always thought thieves feature was stealth. So why can they still get high mobility, high damage and tons of "oh-shit" buttons. I sacrifice a lot as necro, because I have to build that shroud before I can use it. It's similar to druids avatar and not available all the time.What does thief sacrifice for having access to stealth, easier access to dodge and evade? Right, nothing. His "energy bar" refills in seconds, most of his skills are not on a cd but on "energy use".It's completely okay, that I have to sacrifice something, but all classes should share this problem. All of the above mentioned don't sacrifice anything while being mobile, high dps, stealth and sustain. Why? Because being mobile, dodges/evades and having access to stealth is > 18k additional hp you have to "earn" first before you can fight - especially in times where a thief/engi/ranger/mesmer/spellbreaker just hits you for that amount from stealth.We can talk about that again, when shroud doesn't drain while using it or makes you immune to either power or condi damage.The d/d may not be able to dodge forever, but in that time he has put around 30k damage into your corpse, while you weren't able to hit him for at least 50% of that. Yes, a spellbreaker may die on a dark day in december, but not if the player knows at least a bit to play his class.

[ganefte.6723]

@MUDse.7623 said:i dont get why as a necro you care about deadeye elite, thats the least of your problems. why would a deadeye even need stealth against a necro? certainly not for the invisibility, only for traits like hidden killer and to gain access to stealth attacks but invisibility is far from needed against a necro.

your necro can perfectly compete in WvW with any thief or mesmer or ranger but not in the role of a roamer, yet overall you are much more needed as in any groupfight with babysitters from smallscale to largescale your boonhate is superb.i still dont understand why for fractals , raiding, spvp people play builds that are needed for the roles they want to fill, yet when it comes to WvW people solo roam on a necro and zerg on a scepter ele. why do people in WvW think it is like OW 'everything works'. i mean it does to some extent if you run into the right opponents, but you cant expect to compete with builds that are more optimal for the role you want to fill.

Ok, let's put it that way. Thieves are great in pve and rated pvp, so we make them completely useless in wvw. You may have forgotten that we play an mmorpg here, where classes should be balanced for all the game modes. As you said, this isn't OW. Skill should be a factor as there should be counter classes. There is nothing that really counters deadeye at the moment, but most of the classes counter necro.

If a class completely sucks in a game mode while others are unbalanced we should talk about balancing. If I don't play Necro in roaming it doesn't change the sad state of class balancing at all. Take necros out of the equation and still thieves need a heavy rework, mesmer still deals way to much burst damage, spellbreaker is still to strong and rangers still hit to high.I don't know why people think it's okay that certain parts of the game are bullshit in terms of balancing. Maybe they need that to get this feeling of winning, because with their class in line with others that gets a lot harder.

[Dawdler.8521]

@geist.9173 said:There is nothing that really counters deadeye at the moment, but most of the classes counter necro.Except condi which coincidentally the necro brings by the boatloads because its the best in the game for it...

I find your argument kind of odd.

[Khaliel.3918]

Soulbeast is fine in WvW. Rangers had nothing going on for them in WvW since forever and they're not that great, nerfing them isn't really necessary imo.

@"Artaz.3819" said:Meta Soulbeast gets the jump on a Mirage. Alpha macro scripts, enter Beastmode (procs Zephyr's Speed for Quickness and Unstoppable Union for Unblockable + plus a host of bonus traits) grrr, insta-cast Sick'Em (rawr) followed by Point Blank Shot and then Rapid Fire opener (a 2s huge burst from long range!).

Meta Mirage targets Soulbeast, insta casts Illusionary Ambush as reaction (+ has Evasive Mirror traited - standard in every build), gains Reflect for 2s and still gets hit by the Point Blank Shot (shot traveling to Mirage) plus full Rapid Fire , SB loses target/looks like cloak due to lag from IA, Mirage then does Soulbeast critical hit glass cannon damage plus adds any additional crit damage bonuses (i.e. GM Superiority Complex) back to Soulbeast while hard CC'd.

Soulbeast is downed before full Rapid Fire completes. Mirage laughs. Mirage feels bad stomping.

^^ Not anecdotal, I can't even imagine being on the Soulbeast's end of that "fight". Good thing I was on Invisible so I couldn't be messaged.

this is 100% real and it happened

[Aeolus.3615]

@"geist.9173" said:The whole power creep that has replaced the condi meta is way worse than anything before. Most people expected exactly this, but some idiots really thought "power build are so more skilled". Now you have classes that oneshot everything with no skill at all. Have fun with it.

Hey Anet love when classes make players strong and carry them, that's the true concept of this game.

Dont forge that this game needs to be easy for very one even those extremelly bad players need to be effective as well.