Oct 2nd patch

[Substance E.4852]

@DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@Swoll.1483 said:The only nerf is to longbow attack speed? The splits for axe and dagger/torch still provide the same stats if you use those weapons and now provide stats if you have the talent but not the weapon equipped? That’s what I’m reading.

Two-Handed Training also grants Fury when you a disable a foe with

any

weapon.

Yeah I really don't get all the negativity.

1) 250 ferocity with only axes vs 240 ferocity with axes and 120 ferocity with all other weapons is a buff. Only way it's a nerf to someone is if you only camp axes. That's 120 ferocity to longbow, GS, S/wh combos.2) Ambidexterity used to be 150 condi dmg in PvE and 240 in WvW/PvP. Now it's 160/80 in PvE and 240/120 in WvW/PvP depending on weapon. That is a straight upgrade.3) WH changes are all straight buffs. I'll have to see how much bonus healing it does but it sounds like both wh 4 and 5 give regen then heal the ranger.4) GS change goes from a 10 second ICD RNG effect to fury on CC with ANY weapon. That's merged gazelle F2 or smokescale F1. GS5 and 4 or longbow 4, axe 4, beastly warden taunt etc... This is huge buff to remorseless builds as you also bring MoC. CC gives fury --> opening strike/remoresless and moc all proc on the next attack. WS/survival isn't required for this.5) Striders defense is 3 seconds of quickness on evade with any weapon. 5 second ICD. Synergizes perfectly with essence of speed.

So yeah longbow trait doesn't have faster attack speed. I rarely picked that trait for faster attack speed because those type of traits never stacked with quickness and if I was sniping with MM/BM/SB then I had QZ for quickness. Now I can get fury on longbow 4 with the GS trait . Now I can get 120 extra ferocity on longbow if I pick the axe trait. If you decide to bring skirmishing, that's approaching perma quickness, which did not stack with the old longbow trait, on any weapon so long as you time dodges. All of this on a bonus balance patch. Why are ranger complaining?

1. Longbow just got hit with a 10% damage nerf in the only content where people use the axe and longbow traits (pve), 8% crit damage buff isn't compensation.
2. Condi builds suck in pvp because the weapons aren't built for pvp. (crappy dagger, burn stacks from bonfire, dagger offhand still a meme)
3. You don't buff what was already good while nerfing what needed buffs. That leads to stagnation and bordom.
4. Remorseless is pointless on anything other than Maul/Worldly Impact. This is also likely not an intended function and will be either hotfixed on the face of it or nerfed when people complain about WI hitting like a freight train again.
5. Stacking damage mods into a meme snipe build is what led to the nerf in the first place. Keep doing it and see where it gets you.

[jcbroe.4329]

I'll be at work for another few hours, so some questions for anyone looking into any of the changes. Windborne Notes:

• Does it heal everytime Regen is applied, or is it Call of the Wild specific?
• It is static or does the healing scale? If it scales, PvE/PvP split? 0 Healing versus Menders Amulet?

[Levetty.1279]

0 healing in PvE gets you a 151 heal.

[Krispera.5087]

@jcbroe.4329 said:I'll be at work for another few hours, so some questions for anyone looking into any of the changes. Windborne Notes:

• Does it heal everytime Regen is applied, or is it Call of the Wild specific?
• It is static or does the healing scale? If it scales, PvE/PvP split? 0 Healing versus Menders Amulet?

By the wording, it is applied everytime you receive Regen. Could work well with Healing Spring and Water Spirit (Traited).

It scales with healing power. From in game PvP, 0 Healing Power gives 157 and Menders (1050 Healing Power) gives 220.

[DuckDuckBOOM.4097]

@Levetty.1279 said:

@DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:1) 250 ferocity with only axes vs 240 ferocity with axes and 120 ferocity with all other weapons is a buff. Only way it's a nerf to someone is if you only camp axes. That's 120 ferocity to longbow, GS, S/wh combos.Its only a nerf if you use the weapon the trait is for. Great logic there.Axe is a mess and they need to sort it out, they can start by unsplitting the skills, making winter's bite aoe by default and revert this nerf and then give it the buff it needed in the first place.4) GS change goes from a 10 second ICD RNG effect to fury on CC with ANY weapon. That's merged gazelle F2 or smokescale F1. GS5 and 4 or longbow 4, axe 4, beastly warden taunt etc... This is huge buff to remorseless builds as you also bring MoC. CC gives fury --> opening strike/remoresless and moc all proc on the next attack. WS/survival isn't required for this.ITs still a 10 sec icd for a tiny amount of fury. Nobody cares about your Remorseless meme builds for roaming.

So yeah longbow trait doesn't have faster attack speed.Its is a terribly designed trait. Ignoring that Ranger can fart out swiftness without trying and already has a swiftness trait in that line, Ranger's combo fields are all tied to condi skills. Condi ranger's aren't going to go into MM for this trait even if they wanted the swiftness and Power builds are going to take combo fields.

Why are ranger complaining?Because the class is clunky and unfun. Its builds have degenerated into piling a load of passive buffs on yourself and hitting a big burst with 0 interesting gameplay mechanics involved and 0 interaction with the pet. Even if people don't realise on a conscious level they still realise it unconsciously and that is why everybody is complaining and unhappy about its state even though it technically has 'good' builds in all modes.

It's a nerf if you CAMP axes. 10 ferocity nerf on 1 weapon swap and 120 buff on the other. That's still a buff to any build that doesn't CAMP axes. 10 ferocity isn't even 1% crit damage so it's crying over almost nothing.

Sure I run a meme build when I one shot people. I don't deny that. But are you actually going to act like you aren't running a meme builds running the longbow trait? MM is a joke trait line for serious PvP/WvW for SB or druid. Doesn't matter what GM. For base ranger remorseless is actually a meta choice in PvP despite using a longbow. In PvE there is a better trait in MM regardless of what weapon you use. The longbow trait adds piercing and 20% CDR. Makes it a good trait for what it does. Again, increased attack speed from traits doesn't stack with quickness so I won't miss it if I'm running a meme sniper build. I'll admit to swiftness on projectile being odd but I am liking the general idea that they are trying to normalize all the ranger weapon traits to function with all other weapons. Maybe bonus damage on projectile finisher could work.

I'll have to disagree on the last bit. I find ranger and its variants fun to play. Sure I want condi weapons/skirmishing reworks. I also want opening strike reworks to function with all the GMs. Overall I'm happy with the class though. If you don't find it fun, play a different class. I stopped maining mesmer when chrono came out cause I realized it just wasn't working for me. This was also a small bonus balance patch with the new balance team. I didn't expect crazy changes this time and as far as I can tell they did ok on the first try. I expect more from a major balance patch for sure. I won't complain about this one acting like it was a bunch of nerfs.

@Substance E.4852 said:

@DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@Swoll.1483 said:The only nerf is to longbow attack speed? The splits for axe and dagger/torch still provide the same stats if you use those weapons and now provide stats if you have the talent but not the weapon equipped? That’s what I’m reading.

Two-Handed Training also grants Fury when you a disable a foe with

any

weapon.

Yeah I really don't get all the negativity.

1) 250 ferocity with only axes vs 240 ferocity with axes and 120 ferocity with all other weapons is a buff. Only way it's a nerf to someone is if you only camp axes. That's 120 ferocity to longbow, GS, S/wh combos.2) Ambidexterity used to be 150 condi dmg in PvE and 240 in WvW/PvP. Now it's 160/80 in PvE and 240/120 in WvW/PvP depending on weapon. That is a straight upgrade.3) WH changes are all straight buffs. I'll have to see how much bonus healing it does but it sounds like both wh 4 and 5 give regen then heal the ranger.4) GS change goes from a 10 second ICD RNG effect to fury on CC with ANY weapon. That's merged gazelle F2 or smokescale F1. GS5 and 4 or longbow 4, axe 4, beastly warden taunt etc... This is huge buff to remorseless builds as you also bring MoC. CC gives fury --> opening strike/remoresless and moc all proc on the next attack. WS/survival isn't required for this.5) Striders defense is 3 seconds of quickness on evade with any weapon. 5 second ICD. Synergizes perfectly with essence of speed.

So yeah longbow trait doesn't have faster attack speed. I rarely picked that trait for faster attack speed because those type of traits never stacked with quickness and if I was sniping with MM/BM/SB then I had QZ for quickness. Now I can get fury on longbow 4 with the GS trait . Now I can get 120 extra ferocity on longbow if I pick the axe trait. If you decide to bring skirmishing, that's approaching perma quickness, which did not stack with the old longbow trait, on any weapon so long as you time dodges. All of this on a bonus balance patch. Why are ranger complaining?

1. Longbow just got hit with a 10% damage nerf in the only content where people use the axe and longbow traits (pve), 8% crit damage buff isn't compensation.
2. Condi builds suck in pvp because the weapons aren't built for pvp. (crappy dagger, burn stacks from bonfire, dagger offhand still a meme)
3. You don't buff what was already good while nerfing what needed buffs. That leads to stagnation and bordom.
4. Remorseless is pointless on anything other than Maul/Worldly Impact. This is also likely not an intended function and will be either hotfixed on the face of it or nerfed when people complain about WI hitting like a freight train again.
5. Stacking damage mods into a meme snipe build is what led to the nerf in the first place. Keep doing it and see where it gets you.

1) Why pick 10% dmg in PvE for longbow when you can pick 15% for you and your pet?2) Condi builds suck in pvp for sure. I want a rework on some of it. Hopefully it'll be there in a major balance patch with a full rework but the minor buff is a buff to condi sb and condi druid in pve.3) I need to test the wh trait more and it seems a bit buggy. It's a minor heal when you apply regen to someone else though regardless of where the regen comes from. Niche for sure but not major power creep. I'll have to mess with it more before I say anything else on it.4) Forget the meme 1 shot build for a sec. Remorseless allows you to constantly reapply vuln. For solo stuff that's 10-25% more damage. Oh hey, also better than increased attack speed on longbow that is useless if you have quickness. When I power druid in fotm, that's 25% for my team while letting me drop storm spirit on low vuln setups. For base ranger in pvp, it's nice damage. It may be hotfixed because of complaining but I do NOT think it's unintended. Every single weapon trait on ranger, aside from shortbow which already works with multiple weapons, was changed this patch to partially function with all other weapons. That kind of pattern is intended.5) Quickness isn't a damage mod? It's also in skrimishing which is a very underused traitline in PvP. Not sure where you are going with that.

[Abyssisis.3971]

WH seems to heal everytime regen is applied. The healing scales, from 175ish without healing power to 220ish with menders amulet.

[Silverkung.9127]

• Lead the Wind: The attack speed when using the longbow is no longer increased. Piercing is now applied to harpoon gun skills, in addition to the current piercing functionality. Gain swiftness when using a projectile combo finisher.Gain swiftness when projectile-combo(everything can shoot or throw) can use with trap / bonfire/pet skill/other people AoE CC skill it mean you can spam swiftness?somwhow good somehow odd.You guys force us to use trap or off hand torch huh?.

• Strider's Defense: This trait no longer requires rangers to wield a sword to gain quickness when evading.Skirmshing 2-2-2 line all eveade use pluse 1Hsword CD faster but 3sec quick for 5sec ICD hmm...

• Two-Handed Training: This trait no longer has a 50% chance to grant fury when striking with a greatsword or spear. Rangers now gain fury whenever they disable a foe.3sec fury / 10sec icd too long .

• Windborne Notes: This trait now grants regeneration to allies within a radius of 900 of the ranger's target, and it heals the ranger once they've gained the regeneration effect.Not test yet...

Overall it feel bit odd from normal we do... hope we get adap and fix it.When pet fix and useful??

[Substance E.4852]

@"DuckDuckBOOM.4097" said:1) Why pick 10% dmg in PvE for longbow when you can pick 15% for you and your pet?2) Condi builds suck in pvp for sure. I want a rework on some of it. Hopefully it'll be there in a major balance patch with a full rework but the minor buff is a buff to condi sb and condi druid in pve.3) I need to test the wh trait more and it seems a bit buggy. It's a minor heal when you apply regen to someone else though regardless of where the regen comes from. Niche for sure but not major power creep. I'll have to mess with it more before I say anything else on it.4) Forget the meme 1 shot build for a sec. Remorseless allows you to constantly reapply vuln. For solo stuff that's 10-25% more damage. Oh hey, also better than increased attack speed on longbow that is useless if you have quickness. When I power druid in fotm, that's 25% for my team while letting me drop storm spirit on low vuln setups. For base ranger in pvp, it's nice damage. It may be hotfixed because of complaining but I do NOT think it's unintended. Every single weapon trait on ranger, aside from shortbow which already works with multiple weapons, was changed this patch to partially function with all other weapons. That kind of pattern is intended.5) Quickness isn't a damage mod? It's also in skrimishing which is a very underused traitline in PvP. Not sure where you are going with that.

1. Because you don't spam soft cc on mobs in the overworld using a LB and using a LB in WvW group fights without the pierce is lul worthy. I'd also rather pierce with the bow in PvE overworld since "swarms of mobs" is the meta.
2. A buff to something that's mechanically broken is meaningless.
3. eh
4. You get a basically free 20 vuln just from opening with a rapid fire in pve. The shortbow bonus is essentially unrelated to the skill since it's not a feature that's inherent to the weapon. This was clearly made to synergize with Hilt bash -> Maul. They just got done nerfing WI. It's highly unlikely they are going to turn around and then offset that damage and then some with another change.
5. That was also including your closing statement

[ZarexWolf.5637]

Well, this is a really unpleasant update for those that like the Ranger profession. First off, why nerf longbows when that is an important weapon for Rangers? It should've been left alone or buffed a bit, also removing piercing from a bow? Where's the logic in that? Second, axes were uncomfortable to use, at least to me, but now? Not even going to consider that being an option since I think it might be less enjoyable now.

[nicknamenick.2437]

@ZarexWolf.5637 said:Well, this is a really unpleasant update for those that like the Ranger profession. First off, why nerf longbows when that is an important weapon for Rangers? It should've been left alone or buffed a bit, also removing piercing from a bow? Where's the logic in that? Second, axes were uncomfortable to use, at least to me, but now? Not even going to consider that being an option since I think it might be less enjoyable now.

Did you even read the patchnotes?

[voltaicbore.8012]

I gave up on marksmanship entirely for longbow - my soulboon spvp variant actually gets far better performance from LB without MM, which is hilarious (and sad). So while I agree the Lead the Wind changes are a bit disappointing, I've lived without MM for a long time now so it doesn't affect my LB gameplay. Getting rid of attack speed, however small... just seems odd.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I like the Strider's Defense change. It's just really hard to find room for Skirmishing, especially in a Soulbeast build.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@ZarexWolf.5637 said:Well, this is a really unpleasant update for those that like the Ranger profession. First off, why nerf longbows when that is an important weapon for Rangers? It should've been left alone or buffed a bit, also removing piercing from a bow? Where's the logic in that? Second, axes were uncomfortable to use, at least to me, but now? Not even going to consider that being an option since I think it might be less enjoyable now.

I love the Ranger profession and this is a very pleasant update for me.

While my condition build wasn't affected, my power build actually got several nice buffs.

[Levetty.1279]

@DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:It's a nerf if you CAMP axes. 10 ferocity nerf on 1 weapon swap and 120 buff on the other. That's still a buff to any build that doesn't CAMP axes. 10 ferocity isn't even 1% crit damage so it's crying over almost nothing.Its a nerf to a trait that needed a buff for a weapon that needs sorting out and for Anet to stop this sick joke of of splitting the skills just to make it weaker in PvE

Sure I run a meme build when I one shot people. I don't deny that. But are you actually going to act like you aren't running a meme builds running the longbow trait? MM is a joke trait line for serious PvP/WvW for SB or druid. Doesn't matter what GM. For base ranger remorseless is actually a meta choice in PvP despite using a longbow. In PvE there is a better trait in MM regardless of what weapon you use. The longbow trait adds piercing and 20% CDR. Makes it a good trait for what it does. Again, increased attack speed from traits doesn't stack with quickness so I won't miss it if I'm running a meme sniper build. I'll admit to swiftness on projectile being odd but I am liking the general idea that they are trying to normalize all the ranger weapon traits to function with all other weapons. Maybe bonus damage on projectile finisher could work.Nobody cares about your Remorseless meme builds for roaming.

I'll have to disagree on the last bit. I find ranger and its variants fun to play. Sure I want condi weapons/skirmishing reworks. I also want opening strike reworks to function with all the GMs. Overall I'm happy with the class though. If you don't find it fun, play a different class. I stopped maining mesmer when chrono came out cause I realized it just wasn't working for me. This was also a small bonus balance patch with the new balance team. I didn't expect crazy changes this time and as far as I can tell they did ok on the first try. I expect more from a major balance patch for sure. I won't complain about this one acting like it was a bunch of nerfs.It is a bunch of nerfs, the one buff was to the trait for our weakest weapons (daggers) and that ties back in to both boring passive stat buffs and weaker in PvE. The entire patch was a massive step in the wrong direction for Rangers. If Anet's answer is to just drop the class and play another then they can give me a class respec option for my Ranger.

[Substance E.4852]

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:I like the Strider's Defense change. It's just really hard to find room for Skirmishing, especially in a Soulbeast build.

There's honestly still no real reason in pve. You just get too much damage from both marks and beast after the changes that also nerfed spotter. I wish it weren't the case since it would be really fun with a greatsword.

[Rhyse.8179]

2h training losing fury is a big nerf if you used Remorseless.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Well some QoL that you get atleast some stats when not wielding the weapon and that you can control the fury on two handed training now.Vest thing is probably striders defense being indipendend from weapon used which was an old suggestion of mine anyway.Axe is still unsplit though and the AoE wintersbite should be baseline too.Ambidexterity still is boring AF and Shortbow trait is convoluted still.LB got hilariously nerfed actually with this trait change but i aint care.

[Rysdude.3824]

@Levetty.1279 said:

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:Everyone in this thread must only play PvE... Power LB/GS Soulbeast was common in WvW and annoying to the whiners cause picking off slow/downed zerglings.

This is a WvW whiner reaction.

Maybe we play PvE only because Rangers only role in WvW is to pick off stragglers.

No, it’s not. Rangers, both druid and SB, make exceptional roamers. We have our part in WvW.

[ZarexWolf.5637]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@ZarexWolf.5637 said:Well, this is a really unpleasant update for those that like the Ranger profession. First off, why nerf longbows when that is an important weapon for Rangers? It should've been left alone or buffed a bit, also removing piercing from a bow? Where's the logic in that? Second, axes were uncomfortable to use, at least to me, but now? Not even going to consider that being an option since I think it might be less enjoyable now.

I love the Ranger profession and this is a very pleasant update for me.

While my condition build wasn't affected, my power build actually got several nice buffs.

Guess it just depends on what build you choose.

[jcbroe.4329]

@Krispera.5087 said:

@jcbroe.4329 said:I'll be at work for another few hours, so some questions for anyone looking into any of the changes. Windborne Notes:

• Does it heal everytime Regen is applied, or is it Call of the Wild specific?
• It is static or does the healing scale? If it scales, PvE/PvP split? 0 Healing versus Menders Amulet?

By the wording, it is applied everytime you receive Regen. Could work well with Healing Spring and Water Spirit (Traited).

It scales with healing power. From in game PvP, 0 Healing Power gives 157 and Menders (1050 Healing Power) gives 220.

Thanks for the info! I'll have something to think on for my commute.

[jcbroe.4329]

@Rhyse.8179 said:2h training losing fury is a big nerf if you used Remorseless.

Two-Handed Training: This trait no longer has a 50% chance to grant fury when striking with a greatsword or spear. Rangers now gain fury whenever they disable a foe.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

Ranger....range...how hard is it to comprehend? This LB change was completely unnecessary in PvE! Straight up horrible for the LB, what in the hell were you thinking?

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@ZarexWolf.5637 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@ZarexWolf.5637 said:Well, this is a really unpleasant update for those that like the Ranger profession. First off, why nerf longbows when that is an important weapon for Rangers? It should've been left alone or buffed a bit, also removing piercing from a bow? Where's the logic in that? Second, axes were uncomfortable to use, at least to me, but now? Not even going to consider that being an option since I think it might be less enjoyable now.

I love the Ranger profession and this is a very pleasant update for me.

While my condition build wasn't affected, my power build actually got several nice buffs.

Guess it just depends on what build you choose.

It's always depended on what a player's personal build was. However, I will attempt to address your points in the previous post.

Neither longbow nor Shortbow had their piercing trait removed; the patch simply added piercing to the harpoon gun when traited. Axes have not changed at all, aside from a 0.66% critical damage nerf. The only serious nerf is the loss of +15% attack speed, something I believe should've been inherent to the weapon anyway.

[Lambent.6375]

Do they still do those videos talking about why they made each change?

Because this Lead the Wind change. :-1:

[Rhyse.8179]

@jcbroe.4329 said:

@Rhyse.8179 said:2h training losing fury is a big nerf if you used Remorseless.

Two-Handed Training: This trait no longer has a 50% chance to grant fury when striking with a greatsword or spear.

Rangers now gain fury whenever they disable a foe.

And that's a lot less frequent then it was before. Solo-Stacking Vuln with a GS build will be hurt quite a bit.