(Spoiler) "Hidden" mount was a mistake and mounts in general need to be toned down.

[Mitch.4781]

People need to understand that Mounts were introduced for two reasons only. One was a selling point/point of difference for the expansion, the other was that they will form the core part of a huge cash grab at the gemstore. We will be inundated with gemstore only mounts that will be part of the gw2 business model. Thus they aren't going anywhere, let alone be removed.

[Phyb.6704]

The mount in question is a damn glider with some cool stuff that lets you dive and gain more speed in the air. You cant really go UP much more then you can with a glider.Yes you can blits across a zone a bit faster then with a glider but its not that you cant do 90% of what you can with a grif... with a glider.The grif is there so that people with only pof get the same ability to get over thing as those with a glider.

[Zoltar MacRoth.7146]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:I'm surprised you're worried about the griffon making other mounts obsolete. If anything, the jackal sort of makes the raptor obsolete. As far as I can tell the jackal is slightly faster at covering ground and its blink can be chained together to cross larger gaps than the raptor's leap.

I personally find the raptor more intuitive. It also leaps upwards > @Evolute.6239 said:

@Chickenooble.5014 said:This is a kitten thread.

• People who want to use the Gryphon can get it.
• If you feel it is going to ruin your experience don't get it.
• If you got it and found it ruined your experience don't use it.

Problem solved.

I always hate these types of posts.

When they introduce content that invalidates other forms of content, people always say "just don't use it then". Hello? Why would anyone NOT use it if it makes their life easier?

You're kitten to not use mounts, but that doesn't mean you can't look and notice how much it trivializes some content and how much of a game changer it is.

And yet, even with waypoints, there are people who prefer to run across maps. Go figure. Even with the mystic forge module being easily purchasable from BL, people continue to go to mystic forges. Who can understand humans?

[katniss.6735]

I personally love the griffon. I only have the first trait so far, but that video looks nice. I have played WoW, and they aren't as OP as those mounts. For one, you can't just walk up to a vendor and buy one, you have to do a lot of things, which makes the journey feel like a well rewarded gift. Secondly, you can't just afk on one way above content. The griffon makes the 4 wp's PoF maps a lot more tolerable. One of the grinds a lot of people do in this game: world completion, becomes a lot easier to do. This will hopefully prevent people from buying gold for a legendary, and so forth. In closing, I'd like to add that you have potential for some cool new raid & dungeon ideas that utilize mount use.

[TexZero.7910]

@Bratec.7136 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:Oh look its this post again showcasing the eagle at it's best while not taking into account that even at its best (a 1% scenario) it's objectively the second slowest mount, and has the lowest base health meaning if anything remotely looks at you while riding it and has a tracking projectile you're SOL.

The raptor is by the way the fastest mount when using skills and traveling in a linear fashion. Yes its even faster than griffon unless A.) The Griffon has jumped to the highest peak possible and B.) The rider has maxed mastery. Only when both conditions are met is it "better".

The jackal is the fastest in an all purpose scenario where you may have to dodge/jump small gaps. It's run speed is the second fastest.The springer is the 3rd slowest mount, tied with the griffon. Like the griffon it excels with vertical movement. Unlike the griffon it requires constant use of terrain.The skimmer is the slowest of all the mounts, except on water/hazardous terrain.

why wouldnt you max mastery for griffon? unless masochist, i dont see why, plenty of mastery points since to get mount you need finish story and explore mapsflawed arguement.

I know this comes as a shock but i'll help you understand your mistake here. Your fallacy is Division.

The griffon is only better when the following conditions are met as stated above A.) The Griffon has jumped to the highest peak possible and B.) The rider has maxed mastery. Only when both conditions are met is it "better".

Now then, i shouldn't have to explain this but since you cherrypicked it, i will link you to what a tautology is.

[Chickenooble.5014]

@Evolute.6239 said:

@Chickenooble.5014 said:This is a kitten thread.

• People who want to use the Gryphon can get it.
• If you feel it is going to ruin your experience don't get it.
• If you got it and found it ruined your experience don't use it.

Problem solved.

I always hate these types of posts.

When they introduce content that invalidates other forms of content, people always say "just don't use it then". Hello? Why would anyone NOT use it if it makes their life easier?I don't use cheat codes when I play games because I enjoy playing the game, despite cheat codes making the game easier. That's why. If you see something as a threat to the enjoyment of your gaming experience, and if said threat is almost optional for you to use (which the Griffon is completely optional), then don't use the optional thing that is going to ruin the experience. This isn't hard.

And sorry if you don't like these types of posts. If these types of posts bother you so much that you feel compelled to reply just to say, "I don't like this post", then perhaps you should go take a walk.

[Evolute.6239]

@Chickenooble.5014 said:

@Evolute.6239 said:

@Chickenooble.5014 said:This is a kitten thread.

• People who want to use the Gryphon can get it.
• If you feel it is going to ruin your experience don't get it.
• If you got it and found it ruined your experience don't use it.

Problem solved.

I always hate these types of posts.

When they introduce content that invalidates other forms of content, people always say "just don't use it then". Hello? Why would anyone NOT use it if it makes their life easier?I don't use cheat codes when I play games because I enjoy playing the game, despite cheat codes making the game easier. That's why. If you see something as a threat to the enjoyment of your gaming experience, and if said threat is almost optional for you to use (which the Griffon is completely optional), then don't use the optional thing that is going to ruin the experience. This isn't hard.

And sorry if you don't like these types of posts. If these types of posts bother you so much that you feel compelled to reply just to say, "I don't like this post", then perhaps you should go take a walk.

Or I can comment on them on a public forum. Do you want an echo chamber? Maybe you should take a walk, get some fresh air, since you clearly ignored the rest of my post.

[PyrateSilly.4710]

I don't bother with the mounts most of the time. I enjoy playing the game, killing everything I come across, and harvesting everything. It's more fun and more gold for me that way. Go ahead and fly or run past, I will collect everything for myself then.

[Subhuman.3958]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Bratec.7136 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:Oh look its this post again showcasing the eagle at it's best while not taking into account that even at its best (a 1% scenario) it's objectively the second slowest mount, and has the lowest base health meaning if anything remotely looks at you while riding it and has a tracking projectile you're SOL.

The raptor is by the way the fastest mount when using skills and traveling in a linear fashion. Yes its even faster than griffon unless A.) The Griffon has jumped to the highest peak possible and B.) The rider has maxed mastery. Only when both conditions are met is it "better".

The jackal is the fastest in an all purpose scenario where you may have to dodge/jump small gaps. It's run speed is the second fastest.The springer is the 3rd slowest mount, tied with the griffon. Like the griffon it excels with vertical movement. Unlike the griffon it requires constant use of terrain.The skimmer is the slowest of all the mounts, except on water/hazardous terrain.

why wouldnt you max mastery for griffon? unless masochist, i dont see why, plenty of mastery points since to get mount you need finish story and explore mapsflawed arguement.

I know this comes as a shock but i'll help you understand your mistake here. Your fallacy is Division.

The griffon is only better when the following conditions are met as stated above A.) The Griffon has jumped to the highest peak possible and B.) The rider has maxed mastery. Only when both conditions are met is it "better".

Now then, i shouldn't have to explain this but since you cherrypicked it, i will link you to what a

tautology

is.

This just isn't true, let me break it down. To go the fastest efficiently covering a large area requires much less height than you are saying. However, you also don't need very much height at all to get a moderate speed boost that is still much faster than every other mount. The "Aerial Finesse" mastery also gives you a speed boost when you are recovering from a dive (but not as fast), so going into a dive but immediately cancelling it and following it up with a flap is enough for a good speed boost. I'll reiterate - this takes very little height that is commonly available by inclines and very small hills as you go.

I still use every mount, but any time you aren't on strictly flat ground the Griffon will generally get you around the fastest if used correctly due to its versatility. If you don't believe me still, try any of the time attack adventures included in PoF. You won't get anywhere near the highest scores without a Griffon on every one I've tried so far.

I'll use the very first one in the Crystal Oasis as an example - You will start out in raptor for the very (unusually) flat parts around Amnoon in the beginning, but you will demolish the majority of the race in record time by switching to the Griffon. I actually don't even know if gold is possible on this adventure using only the raptor.

Edit - I should also add that the Masteries in PoF take so little xp that it isn't worth considering using the Griffon without them for the purpose of a debate. If you have a Griffon, you have access to enough/all of the insights, and the XP requirement for all of them can be done in under an hour with boosters.

[Hevoskuuri.3891]

@Evolute.6239 said:

@Chickenooble.5014 said:This is a kitten thread.

• People who want to use the Gryphon can get it.
• If you feel it is going to ruin your experience don't get it.
• If you got it and found it ruined your experience don't use it.

Problem solved.

I always hate these types of posts.

When they introduce content that invalidates other forms of content, people always say "just don't use it then". Hello? Why would anyone NOT use it if it makes their life easier?

You're kitten to not use mounts, but that doesn't mean you can't look and notice how much it trivializes some content and how much of a game changer it is.

You haven't posted a single valid argument considering content skipping. What content does the mount let us skip? What content does it trivialize?

It doesn't help us skip anything to get rewards faster. It doesn't help us to get exp faster. It only allows to get TO content and travel to places faster, which is exactly what it's meant to do. If you mean that people should get around slower or get swarmed by mobs constantly when they are traveling, nothing stops YOU from doing so. There's no point in getting mad at those who don't like it.

[Kalli.4506]

I find it hard to believe that OP have ever tried the griffon or even mounted up at all :o

[Yamazuki.6073]

@Manimarco Devil.1790 said:

@Nokaru.7831 said:Either you haven't played WoW or you don't have the griffon mount because this is not "exactly the type of mount WoW uses." In World of Warcraft, flying is the same thing as basically swimming in mid-air; you have full control over the X-Y-Z of your character. You can hover at any distance for any duration. The griffon is different because it just does small hops and glides unless it has great height. If it does have that altitude, the griffon does amazing things but it requires some tricky (but very fun) aerial maneuvers. As for bypassing everything... Guild Wars 2 has waypoints. You don't get faster travel than instant teleportation.

I meant in terms of ability to skip content they are similar. And specifically skipping content by flying over it is what WoW has. The waypoint argument is ridiculous. Way points still required you to reach them. Way points can be contested. Way points were reasonable where players could only navigate terrain in a certain manner so they served as checkpoints. The new maps have even less way points and may continue to have less with the addition of mounts so griffon becomes better than "instantaneous" travel.

@Paralux.6714 said:The raptor is much faster than the griffon when you are on the ground (which you are most of the time.) The griffon is pretty much unless on the ground, because you can't take off from the ground and end up in the sky, because of the endurance bar. The griffon is just good if you are already up high. It's not like in WoW, where you can fly straight up from the ground and stay in the air while being afk.

I already addressed that. Its already becoming more common and easier to bunny to a nearby location and fly than use another mount. See: bounties where 90% of the zerg is griffon. (unless they needed to bunny to reach new higher location)

I also think raptor is still worse if you are walking uphill as the terrain prevent the raptor jump from going full distance so its only better on flat ground.

Two things:

First: Having to use a bunny to get higher, switch mounts, and basically glide has to be factored into the time it takes to get from point A to point B. When you take this fact into account you end up spending too much time.

Second: Have you asked why some people use the Griffon even if it is slower? Most people don't have it, and many can't even afford it. They're showing off, that's all.

Griffon is definitely good for HoT maps, but that's because it was designed for gliding, which is basically what the Griffon mount does, but in PoF it loses its value in an average perspective.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Yamazuki.6073 said:Second: Have you asked why some people use the Griffon even if it is slower? Most people don't have it, and many can't even afford it. They're showing off, that's all.

Or, you know, because it's just super fun. I don't even have it yet and I swap to it whenever possible (via griffon eggs or whatever). For me, it's a combination of my favorite bits of mounts and gliding and exploring.

I'm sure you're right that some people are demonstrating braggadocio. But I'm willing to bet they're a minority.

[Waldo.8075]

I'd like to see a demonstration of this so-called content bypassing.

Other than that, this thread is a big joke.The griffon is just an upgraded glider. It can't take off with speed as long as it has not enough height. All the other mounts? They can pretty much use their special abilities to bypass more content than the griffon can.

As long as there isn't a high spot on the map to take-off from, the griffon doesn't really do much other than looking kind of pretty.Also, what is this nonsense about events being rushed? Whatever you've been snorting, I'd like some of that.

Most of the posts here seem to be about theoretical jazz, and also proves that not many people have actually tried the griffon mount.

Let's cry wolf harder shall we?

[Myrdreth.6829]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Yamazuki.6073 said:Second: Have you asked why some people use the Griffon even if it is slower? Most people don't have it, and many can't even afford it. They're showing off, that's all.

Or, you know, because it's just super fun. I don't even have it yet and I swap to it whenever possible (via griffon eggs or whatever). For me, it's a combination of my favorite bits of mounts and gliding and exploring.

I'm sure you're right that

some

people are demonstrating braggadocio. But I'm willing to bet they're a minority.

And because it looks so pretty and majestic! I am just so happy about the griffon. At first I didn't know they made a griffon and when someone asked in the forum which mount we would like to have in the future I said "griffin!". And now that I have one I can't seem to stop playing with it :) I am just happy about it. Doesn't matter how useful it is(even though I think gliding IS useful. I already can glide all on my own, but still).

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@etsubmariner.4690 said:To be honest, if you spend 250 gold (in what is obviously anet's gemstore-to-gold scheme), you get to skip around as you like. In this particular game, no one loses when another player flies over your party battling a boss. Like a boss.

I think the issue at hand with the mounts is that events are done and finished before players without can even get close.Take for example Silverwastes boss event.. when last lane completes their boss and all loot and head to first champ... Wolf, its over now before players can get to it no matter how quick you loot and run.I like the mounts, I am a fan but to allow them to be used outside of PoF is a mistake in my opinion, at the very least they should of had a scaling of speed/skills to compensate for the unfair advantage they provide including map exploitation.I doubt whether ANET will listen though as at the end of the day its a gold sync and can only promote gem sales for gems to gold conversation, so we just have to live with another extreme imbalance.

[Chadramar.8156]

@"Manimarco Devil.1790" said:The griffon mount needs to be removed. This is exactly the type of mount of WoW uses and it kills content. People are allowed to bypass too much by using them.

No. On every level, no. Frankly, who are you to demand that other people be forced to do something they don't want but you want them to? People should bloody well be "allowed" to engage with content only if they want to for whatever reason, preferably their own enjoyment. Want to get people to do something? Entice them, don't throw various nuisances at them that make it hard or impossible to do what they want to instead. This is a game, after all. If I don't want to do a certain event, I'm not going to do it, and mounts do not change a single thing about that.

Plus, "Joy of Movement" may sound silly to some but is very much a thing for me, and indulging in it to explore or gather or just zoom around is also a form of engaging with content. I doubt I'll ever love anything in gaming as much as I loved my feral druid in WoW (until Cataclysm, no idea what has changed since then), in no small part because the shapeshifting embodied that for me. Gliding, the gliding skills in Bloodstone Fen and now the mounts are just a shadow of that, but still among the best things in this game as far as I'm concerned. See stuff, kill stuff, loot stuff isn't the only thing people play MMOs for.

Second, mounts do not "kill" content, they allow people to get to it faster. Or help other players faster. Previously, if I saw some poor sod dying up a cliff or on the other side of a divide, that was it. They'd be long dead by the time I could get to them. Now? Raptor or springer to the rescue. Someone's calling for help? I am more likely to respond when it takes less time and hassle to get there, and I bet the same is true for others as well.

(Also, I find the complains about "skipping content" to be funny considering how much effort many people expend to avoid engaging with content at other times, and then put doing so on a pedestal as the epitome of skill and efficiency while verbally abusing people who cannot or don't want to do the same. Dungeon speedruns, anyone? Fractal skips? Do the people who have such a hate-on for mounts ever engage in that sort of thing?)

[Vladish.3940]

@Evolute.6239 said:

@Chickenooble.5014 said:This is a kitten thread.

• People who want to use the Gryphon can get it.
• If you feel it is going to ruin your experience don't get it.
• If you got it and found it ruined your experience don't use it.

Problem solved.

I always hate these types of posts.

When they introduce content that invalidates other forms of content, people always say "just don't use it then". Hello? Why would anyone NOT use it if it makes their life easier?

You're kitten to not use mounts, but that doesn't mean you can't look and notice how much it trivializes some content and how much of a game changer it is.

Mounts don't invalidate or trivialize nothing. If you are an old player you have spent 5 years on foot. At best 2 - 3 years gliding. The content that you will be "rushing" through are pretty much only open world maps you probably know by heart now and are thanking gods for ability to cross that content faster now, even if on alts.

If you are a new player... they trivialize nothing for you. They are just a standard part of a game you know because you don't know game without them. Ask then those people to do any other content on foot and they will look at you like you are mentally challenged.

If you are a vet, at least you get bragging rights that you walked the map the hard way? LOLZ... oh right... waypoints...

And what game changer? because I can travel little faster than perma-switness buff? If I could use them in combat and they essentially doubled or tripled my health pool, yeah, I'd agree, but they don't. You have zero valid arguments, if I can even call those arguments. We can't use them in competitive mode either (which is a good thing).

Not only that, they don't invalidate any content. not even gliders which have their use still and are only "mount" that can achieve near perma-flight ability due to updrafts and leylines. Chicken is just a glider that's too heavy to use HoT mechanics.

Seriously, trolls nowadays will look for any TRIVIAL thing to bitch about.

[Rayti.6531]

@Vladish.3940 said:Mounts don't invalidate or trivialize nothing. If you are an old player you have spent 5 years on foot. At best 2 - 3 years gliding. The content that you will be "rushing" through are pretty much only open world maps you probably know by heart now and are thanking gods for ability to cross that content faster now, even if on alts.

^ This.

I have finished map completion on all but two of my alts (with a third one being close to finished). Who knows when I would have finally found the motivation to do map completion once again on those remaining two... The lack of map completion (i.e. the ability to WP anywhere I want to go in case someone wants me to join some event) is something that bothers me to the point that I rarely play those alts.

Mounts give me the opportunity to get this otherwise rather daunting (at least if you've done that far too often already) task done on my remaining alts and at the same time have fun doing so and rediscover the old maps in a totally different way -> "I wonder if I can get up there with my Springer. Is this gap too wide to cross on my Raptor? Let's see how far I can fly from that point on my Griffon without touching the ground..." I think you get what I'm trying to say.

So if anything, mounts provide additional content/add value to content I otherwise wouldn't even play anymore, maybe because I'm tired of doing the same thing, the same way, all over again.

Regarding the Griffon and invalidation of content and other mounts by this mount in particular:I've played around with the Griffon for quite some time now and know the speed potential of it, how to gain altitude to prolong the flight, etc. but fail to see how my ability to cross a map at a certain altitude at a certain speed affects anyone but myself. If I feel the need to fly in circles around Rata Sum (just because), I see no reason not to do so. But if the OP comes up with a reasonable statement on how I affect him/her by flying around on my Griffon (except for "I don't like you doing that, so you shouldn't") I'm ready to be enlightened.

Even though I own the Griffon it does not replace/invalidate any of my other mounts. I still use the Raptor to navigate flat terrain and jump over gaps, the Springer for getting to higher ground, the Jackal to navigate through uneven terrain with obstacles my Raptor would stumble over, and the Skimmer for traversing water (I'm looking at you, Orr maps).

I think ANet did a great job balancing the mounts in a way, that each of them has their specific use while still giving the player the choice of using a different mount for the same thing (but with the cost of not being that efficient in certain situations). I could use my Griffon to fly over gaps or over water, but in exchange I'd be forced to land (or even dismount) and move at lower speed once I touch the ground/water by accident. -> What I like about that example is that if I chose to do so, I could. In my opinion, giving more choices to the players isn't exactly a bad thing.

[T G.7496]

@Manimarco Devil.1790 said:The griffon mount needs to be removed.

Do you gnash your teeth with envious rage every time one flies over you?You'll live.Look on the bright side, you're 250g better off than everyone flying over your angry head.

I don't own PoF. But if/when I do, I'll definitely be looking forward to getting myself a griffon - it looks like a lot of fun.I'm happy for everyone who already has one, I'm sure it's very satisfying.

~TG

[Shirlias.8104]

@Aurelian Omenkind.2470 said:OP’s argument is semantics at this point. The cat’s already out of the bag now. Or rather the griffon is out of the nest. There’s pretty much 0% chance Arenanet is gonna say to everyone who currently has the mount, “all that work you did and price you paid to get that shiny (“feathery”?) new mount? Yeah, our bad. They’re going away now. Sorry ‘bout that, mate.

Would be appreciated.When People do it wrong and then Fix and Say ''we are sorry for the inconvinience'', there's nothing wrong.

And after have read things like ''Cause i paid 250g then i have the right to skip things'' i do really hope they are going to nerf it to the ground.

But Since the game is getting year after year more casual, i really doubt they'll do something which could cost em additional earnings.

And really it's a Shame.

[Menadena.7482]

@Nafets.1238 said:Can't hear you over my 20 seconds fly over Verdant Brink, Lion's Arch or Lornar's Pass. Can you repeat?

Thanks for giving all of us an example of why the griffon is way too powerful. The other mounts overpower some old content but also have their problems to compensate. The griffon? Just no. It is either now SOP or PVE is being broken into people who have it and people who do not as you will have a tougher time designing content that is equally challenging to both groups. Given the number of gates to get one and fully train it it is not reasonably achievable for a majority of the population.

[Menadena.7482]

@kharmin.7683 said:Curious. Why should anyone care about how someone else enjoys their own content?

An example was used above. When there are even dailies in a region and they complete fast because people are swooping to it on griffons.

[Myrdreth.6829]

You know, the only thing I hear here is jealousy. It totally IS possible to get the griffon. It just takes time, the same with legendaries. The griffon is supposed to be hard to get. But it feels satisfying once you unlocket it. Everyone has a chance to get the griffon. EVERYONE.

[Menadena.7482]

@Razor.6392 said:I was excited for a secret mount, then I read the following 4 characters:

250 Gold

Slowly walked away...

With me it was the mention of jumping puzzles.