Semi and Perma-Stealth are junk mechanics

Psycoprophet.8107 · February 9, 2019

Haha yeah I kno I’ve repeated it few times over last few months lol but I think I could definitely work if done right

KeyOrion.9506 · February 15, 2019

Actually fighting Deadeye ...a good Deadeye...is like fighting The Predator. GET TO THE CHOPPAH!...Seriously though. Takes multiple people to hunt down really good thieves and mesmers and engineers. One of the older Jade Quarry sayings, "Never hunt alone." We meant it.

Loke.1429 · February 23, 2019

i really hope they will do something about it in this next balance update

Gustaff.6581 · February 23, 2019

I can say that stealth its so unreal as magic, since when you just "dissapear" into nothingness before your enemy eyes? But i must say that thieves should be more stelthy than other classes, but there is no sense in someone battling you in melee and suddenly puff, it dissapears. i have seen games where stealth is controled by a proximity mechanic, so you cant abuse from the invulnerability that provides, when you get in a certain distance from the enemy you will get detected no matter what.

That way stealth is used by an anticipation and ambush mechanic, the enemy will not know you are coming so will not be prepared and you will strike first, always, but you will not magically vanish in the middle of a battle, in front of your enemy eyes, which is the problem that annoys people.

Aeolus.3615 · February 23, 2019

Problem with stealth IMO are the lack of validations coded to the game(reveal on take damage etc), stealth is badly design from core to make players feel they are strong, was initially made w/o counters because GW2 is ment to carry the most dumbass player with some awfull gimmicks(low effeort gameplay high rewards, not much team play is actually needed).

Stealth will never work in a "natural way" due that Anet developers mentality, and the current AOE SPAM and expecting way more aoe spam and stronger with the next expantions Stealth will never work like a clever mechanics, it m8 also get even more designed to carry the players in future actually.

Note: With the current lvl's of lame spam and the "friendly unskiled designed combat helps arround the aoe and spam class desig Anet is doing" stealth needs to be junk by default.´Junk mechanics are the way gw2 is ment to be played and designed, simple and dumb.

/sorry the bad english.

Loke.1429 · March 3, 2019

@"Aeolus.3615" said:Problem with stealth IMO are the lack of validations coded to the game(reveal on take damage etc), stealth is badly design from core to make players feel they are strong, was initially made w/o counters because GW2 is ment to carry the most kitten player with some awfull gimmicks(low effeort gameplay high rewards, not much team play is actually needed).
Stealth will never work in a "natural way" due that Anet developers mentality, and the current AOE SPAM and expecting way more aoe spam and stronger with the next expantions Stealth will never work like a clever mechanics, it m8 also get even more designed to carry the players in future actually.
Note: With the current lvl's of lame spam and the "friendly unskiled designed combat helps arround the aoe and spam class desig Anet is doing" stealth needs to be junk by default.´Junk mechanics are the way gw2 is ment to be played and designed, simple and dumb.
/sorry the bad english.I agree, from the start stealth was made a crutch/not counterable and then became very broken / not a good mechanic (escepically after stealth became much more accessible / higher uptimes. In balance patch they will reduce theif stealth on dodge, and I'm unsure how much that will affect

bq pd.2148 · March 3, 2019

@Loke.1429 said:
@"Aeolus.3615" said:Problem with stealth IMO are the lack of validations coded to the game(reveal on take damage etc), stealth is badly design from core to make players feel they are strong, was initially made w/o counters because GW2 is ment to carry the most kitten player with some awfull gimmicks(low effeort gameplay high rewards, not much team play is actually needed).
Stealth will never work in a "natural way" due that Anet developers mentality, and the current AOE SPAM and expecting way more aoe spam and stronger with the next expantions Stealth will never work like a clever mechanics, it m8 also get even more designed to carry the players in future actually.
Note: With the current lvl's of lame spam and the "friendly unskiled designed combat helps arround the aoe and spam class desig Anet is doing"
stealth needs to be junk by default.
´Junk mechanics are the way gw2 is ment to be played and designed, simple and dumb.
/sorry the bad english.I agree, from the start stealth was made a crutch/not counterable and then became very broken / not a good mechanic (escepically after stealth became much more accessible / higher uptimes. In balance patch they will reduce theif stealth on dodge, and I'm unsure how much that will affect

the patch itself is only a nerf to rifle deadeye not to overall thieves access to stealth. it just puts rifle to be more or less as bad as p/p, wich should be enough to make it a rarity. however nothing stops you from still permastealthing with d/p (easiest as daredevil tho, wich has lower burst and more defense than deadeye: less oneshots, more annoyance).

Teratus.2859 · March 3, 2019

Never going to happen lol

I know how you feel though.. even since the early days of Gw2 i've despised the stealth mechanic in PvP game modes.. I've always associated as a cheap way for anyone regardless of skill level to get easy kills.. and for years I think a lot of players felt the same way.

I've always felt that at least in PvP modes stealth should have motion blurr.. so when a stealth player moves around they leave a distortion that players can track even though they can't lock onto them forcing the thief to stop moving if they want to maintain actual invisible stealth.

Widmo.3186 · March 3, 2019

2k19 and ppl still crying about stealth mechanic, omegalul (non-stealth main class user speaking)

Kylden Ar.3724 · March 4, 2019

@Widmo.3186 said:2k19 and ppl still crying about stealth mechanic, omegalul (non-stealth main class user speaking)

Because learning to play is hard.

Loke.1429 · March 4, 2019

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:Because learning to play is hard.not for everyone, but some people need their crutch-mechanics apparently..

This is not a discussion primarily about balance and definitely not about skill, for me it was about enjoyable game-play, and how way too much stealth / too much up-time is making the game less enjoyable through lack of counters, long waits / fights that take way too long, fights that are only entertaining for one side (because nobody likes to wait, usually until the stealther mans up again with disengage and full health).

Additionally the stealth in this game is a bit poorly designed, since its so accessible even mid fight, and so much damage can be done from stealth, with server lag making players appear later then the damage etc., even ranged attacks can do this. Stealth classes have some of the best mobility also, quite silly really

kash.9213 · March 5, 2019

@Loke.1429 said:
@Kylden Ar.3724 said:Because learning to play is hard.not for everyone, but some people need their crutch-mechanics apparently..

This is not a discussion primarily about balance and definitely not about skill, for me it was about enjoyable game-play, and how way too much stealth / too much up-time is making the game less enjoyable through lack of counters, long waits / fights that take way too long, fights that are only entertaining for one side (because nobody likes to wait, usually until the stealther mans up again with disengage and full health).

Additionally the stealth in this game is a bit poorly designed, since its so accessible even mid fight, and so much damage can be done from stealth, with server lag making players appear later then the damage etc., even ranged attacks can do this. Stealth classes have some of the best mobility also, quite silly really

The stealth in this game is designed well and it's fun to play, too much consecutive uptime is a problem, but one issue doesn't make the whole mechanic a problem.

LordEnki.9283 · March 5, 2019

The 20 seconds of invuln, and run away constantly to reset a fight is crap is a close second and third

Straegen.2938 · March 5, 2019

@Widmo.3186 said:2k19 and ppl still crying about stealth mechanic, omegalul (non-stealth main class user speaking)

I abused the hell out of Silent Scope. It needed a very serious nerf and it receives it with this patch. I play meta and I don't apologize for it but the Dead Eye Trick/CS Rifle build was stupid OP. Cracking someone from stealth with 3k armor for 12k plus and vanishing a second later or pumping another 10k plus in burst into them then vanishing was too easy. About the only thing that countered the build was near full uptime on Reflect and even then Binding Shadow was a hard counter.

Even with the massive nerf to Silent Scope, Dead Eye is still going to be strong.

Turk.5460 · March 5, 2019

@LordEnki.9283 said:The 20 seconds of invuln, and run away constantly to reset a fight is kitten is a close second and third

I agree. Also people act like Stealth is the end all be all to disengage/reset. Pretty much every WvW solo roamer you see will attempt to run away and reset when things go south on any profession. Engies stealth/rocketboots, Warriors Nike (some really insecure ones only fight by water so they can run), Rangers Stealth/Swoop/, Thieves Stealth/SS/Shortbow, Rev ports to ambients, Mesmer stealth/port/double port. Even Guardians will see themselves losing and just bide time until they can JI/S2 towards an ambient. I also have seen plenty of well played Elementalists who will still flash and reset. Necros seem to be the only ones due to how they really can't run/reset.

Straegen.2938 · March 5, 2019

@"Turk.5460" said:I agree. Also people act like Stealth is the end all be all to disengage/reset. Pretty much every WvW solo roamer you see will attempt to run away and reset when things go south on any profession.

I agree with the "all roamer classes going to reset" point but only a handful of builds can go invis AND move 3k plus away from a fight in a near instant. Dead Eye never should have gotten that huge mobility and stealth off of one weapon.

The fact that look-back allows them to move fast in any direction simply makes for an infuriatingly difficult fight with little chance of escape. I have to ask what Anet was thinking actually... all the mobility of the short bow, with the damage of backstab, a thunderous auto attack and stealth on demand without having to burn init. They tripled down on everything people hated about thieves into one weapon. It felt abusive playing it and it felt more abused dying to it.

zinkz.7045 · March 5, 2019

@kash.9213 said:
@Loke.1429 said:
@Kylden Ar.3724 said:Because learning to play is hard.not for everyone, but some people need their crutch-mechanics apparently..

This is not a discussion primarily about balance and definitely not about skill, for me it was about enjoyable game-play, and how way too much stealth / too much up-time is making the game less enjoyable through lack of counters, long waits / fights that take way too long, fights that are only entertaining for one side (because nobody likes to wait, usually until the stealther mans up again with disengage and full health).

Additionally the stealth in this game is a bit poorly designed, since its so accessible even mid fight, and so much damage can be done from stealth, with server lag making players appear later then the damage etc., even ranged attacks can do this. Stealth classes have some of the best mobility also, quite silly really

The stealth in this game is designed well....

Nah it really isn't, but that aside stealth like pretty much every other aspect of combat was mainly designed and tuned around PvP conquest. Which is why in PvP stealth is basically fine because the biggest balance to it is the game mode itself. You think you are going to lose a fight in PvP then if you are on something that can easily disengage (stealth and/or high mobility) then it is fine, because you get punished for it by losing the capture point to your opponent, they are rewarded for outplaying you, you are punished for being outplayed / screwing up, as it should be.

In WvW roaming on the other hand stealth (and high mobility) are completely broken, I can play say mirage go attack some guy 1v1 get outplayed and then mostly disengage if I want, so I don't get punished for being outplayed, my opponent does not get rewarded for outplaying me, that breaks a key aspect of game design (PvP especially) risk vs reward. Just one of the many reasons WvW is a joke game mode and roaming died years ago.

Turk.5460 · March 5, 2019

@Straegen.2938 said:
@"Turk.5460" said:I agree. Also people act like Stealth is the end all be all to disengage/reset. Pretty much every WvW solo roamer you see will attempt to run away and reset when things go south on
any
profession.

I agree with the "all roamer classes going to reset" point but only a handful of builds can go invis AND move 3k plus away from a fight in a near instant. Dead Eye never should have gotten that huge mobility and stealth off of one weapon.

The fact that look-back allows them to move fast in any direction simply makes for an infuriatingly difficult fight with little chance of escape. I have to ask what Anet was thinking actually... all the mobility of the short bow, with the damage of backstab, a thunderous auto attack and stealth on demand without having to burn init. They tripled down on everything people hated about thieves into one weapon. It felt abusive playing it and it felt more abused dying to it.

A 600 range port that costs half or 1/3rd of the Thief's initiative pool is really giving you that much trouble? If the Thief has enough initiative to use that 600 range port more than once, then they really shouldn't have been doing damage to you...Have you tried soulbeast?

kash.9213 · March 5, 2019

@zinkz.7045 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@Loke.1429 said:
@Kylden Ar.3724 said:Because learning to play is hard.not for everyone, but some people need their crutch-mechanics apparently..

This is not a discussion primarily about balance and definitely not about skill, for me it was about enjoyable game-play, and how way too much stealth / too much up-time is making the game less enjoyable through lack of counters, long waits / fights that take way too long, fights that are only entertaining for one side (because nobody likes to wait, usually until the stealther mans up again with disengage and full health).

Additionally the stealth in this game is a bit poorly designed, since its so accessible even mid fight, and so much damage can be done from stealth, with server lag making players appear later then the damage etc., even ranged attacks can do this. Stealth classes have some of the best mobility also, quite silly really

The stealth in this game is designed well....

Nah it really isn't, but that aside stealth like pretty much every other aspect of combat was mainly designed and tuned around PvP conquest. Which is why in PvP stealth is basically fine because the biggest balance to it is the game mode itself. You think you are going to lose a fight in PvP then if you are on something that can easily disengage (stealth and/or high mobility) then it is fine, because you get punished for it by losing the capture point to your opponent, they are rewarded for outplaying you, you are punished for being outplayed / screwing up, as it should be.

In WvW roaming on the other hand stealth (and high mobility) are completely broken, I can play say mirage go attack some guy 1v1 get outplayed and then mostly disengage if I want, so I don't get punished for being outplayed, my opponent does not get rewarded for outplaying me, that breaks a key aspect of game design (PvP especially) risk vs reward. Just one of the many reasons WvW is a joke game mode and roaming died years ago.

Did you read my post or just see the word stealth and get triggered and posted the usual rant?

zinkz.7045 · March 5, 2019

@kash.9213 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@Loke.1429 said:
@Kylden Ar.3724 said:Because learning to play is hard.not for everyone, but some people need their crutch-mechanics apparently..

This is not a discussion primarily about balance and definitely not about skill, for me it was about enjoyable game-play, and how way too much stealth / too much up-time is making the game less enjoyable through lack of counters, long waits / fights that take way too long, fights that are only entertaining for one side (because nobody likes to wait, usually until the stealther mans up again with disengage and full health).

Additionally the stealth in this game is a bit poorly designed, since its so accessible even mid fight, and so much damage can be done from stealth, with server lag making players appear later then the damage etc., even ranged attacks can do this. Stealth classes have some of the best mobility also, quite silly really

The stealth in this game is designed well....

Nah it really isn't, but that aside stealth like pretty much every other aspect of combat was mainly designed and tuned around PvP conquest. Which is why in PvP stealth is basically fine because the biggest balance to it is the game mode itself. You think you are going to lose a fight in PvP then if you are on something that can easily disengage (stealth and/or high mobility) then it is fine, because you get punished for it by losing the capture point to your opponent, they are rewarded for outplaying you, you are punished for being outplayed / screwing up, as it should be.

In WvW roaming on the other hand stealth (and high mobility) are completely broken, I can play say mirage go attack some guy 1v1 get outplayed and then mostly disengage if I want, so I don't get punished for being outplayed, my opponent does not get rewarded for outplaying me, that breaks a key aspect of game design (PvP especially) risk vs reward. Just one of the many reasons WvW is a joke game mode and roaming died years ago.

Did you read my post or just see the word stealth and get triggered and posted the usual rant?

You claimed stealth was well designed, I gave one of the reasons as to why it is not, if you have difficulty understanding that, then that is your problem.

bq pd.2148 · March 5, 2019

@zinkz.7045 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@Loke.1429 said:
@Kylden Ar.3724 said:Because learning to play is hard.not for everyone, but some people need their crutch-mechanics apparently..

This is not a discussion primarily about balance and definitely not about skill, for me it was about enjoyable game-play, and how way too much stealth / too much up-time is making the game less enjoyable through lack of counters, long waits / fights that take way too long, fights that are only entertaining for one side (because nobody likes to wait, usually until the stealther mans up again with disengage and full health).

Additionally the stealth in this game is a bit poorly designed, since its so accessible even mid fight, and so much damage can be done from stealth, with server lag making players appear later then the damage etc., even ranged attacks can do this. Stealth classes have some of the best mobility also, quite silly really

The stealth in this game is designed well....

Nah it really isn't, but that aside stealth like pretty much every other aspect of combat was mainly designed and tuned around PvP conquest. Which is why in PvP stealth is basically fine because the biggest balance to it is the game mode itself. You think you are going to lose a fight in PvP then if you are on something that can easily disengage (stealth and/or high mobility) then it is fine, because you get punished for it by losing the capture point to your opponent, they are rewarded for outplaying you, you are punished for being outplayed / screwing up, as it should be.

In WvW roaming on the other hand stealth (and high mobility) are completely broken, I can play say mirage go attack some guy 1v1 get outplayed and then mostly disengage if I want, so I don't get punished for being outplayed, my opponent does not get rewarded for outplaying me, that breaks a key aspect of game design (PvP especially) risk vs reward. Just one of the many reasons WvW is a joke game mode and roaming died years ago.

you seem to 1 vs 1 for the node in spvp , and 1 vs 1 for no reason in WvW. in both modes just the kill alone already does provide score, so its as usefull to fight for fighting sake, while ignoring the nodes in a spvp match as it is in a WvW match.start fighting over something in WvW and you will win when your opponent disengages for the same reasons it works in spvp.

zinkz.7045 · March 5, 2019

@MUDse.7623 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@Loke.1429 said:
@"Kylden Ar.3724" said:Because learning to play is hard.not for everyone, but some people need their crutch-mechanics apparently..

This is not a discussion primarily about balance and definitely not about skill, for me it was about enjoyable game-play, and how way too much stealth / too much up-time is making the game less enjoyable through lack of counters, long waits / fights that take way too long, fights that are only entertaining for one side (because nobody likes to wait, usually until the stealther mans up again with disengage and full health).

Additionally the stealth in this game is a bit poorly designed, since its so accessible even mid fight, and so much damage can be done from stealth, with server lag making players appear later then the damage etc., even ranged attacks can do this. Stealth classes have some of the best mobility also, quite silly really

The stealth in this game is designed well....

Nah it really isn't, but that aside stealth like pretty much every other aspect of combat was mainly designed and tuned around PvP conquest. Which is why in PvP stealth is basically fine because the biggest balance to it is the game mode itself. You think you are going to lose a fight in PvP then if you are on something that can easily disengage (stealth and/or high mobility) then it is fine, because you get punished for it by losing the capture point to your opponent, they are rewarded for outplaying you, you are punished for being outplayed / screwing up, as it should be.

In WvW roaming on the other hand stealth (and high mobility) are completely broken, I can play say mirage go attack some guy 1v1 get outplayed and then mostly disengage if I want, so I don't get punished for being outplayed, my opponent does not get rewarded for outplaying me, that breaks a key aspect of game design (PvP especially) risk vs reward. Just one of the many reasons WvW is a joke game mode and roaming died years ago.

you seem to 1 vs 1 for the node in spvp , and 1 vs 1 for no reason in WvW. in both modes just the kill alone already does provide score, so its as usefull to fight for fighting sake, while ignoring the nodes in a spvp match as it is in a WvW match.start fighting over something in WvW and you will win when your opponent disengages for the same reasons it works in spvp.

The difference being WvW basically fails as a competitive game mode where "winning" is based on population/coverage, dull game play like PvDoor and most matches are a foregone conclusion. So most veteran players do not really care about "winning" beyond any preference they may have for whom they face next match, which can also mean deliberately losing.

Then beyond that, the actions of a roamer are basically irrelevant to the score, not only are you a tiny unit out of thousands, you only play a small portion of the total match (unless one has no life), so will not change that outcome of a match in a game mode where there is such imbalance and matches are not remotely close most of the time.

Which is why even entire zergs will sit at south camp spot doing "blob vs blob" whilst they lose objectives on another map or why some roamers let others capture a camp to have a 1v1 afterwards, because the mode is fundamentally broken as a competitive PvP match and it doesn't really matter one bit whether you lose some camp or not.

Where as PvP actually functions as a competitive game mode, you are 1 of 5 people and you play the entire duration, so people (yes AFK'ers aside) are bothered about winning so that gives meaningful value to capturing/keeping a node or killing an opponent as they try to rotate to the next node. In PvP your actions as an individual actually matter in a way they don't as a roamer in a WvW match and is why a PvP player is actually bothered about a capture node in a way most roamers are not bothered about a camp/guard spot, etc in WvW.

bq pd.2148 · March 5, 2019

@zinkz.7045 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@Loke.1429 said:
@"Kylden Ar.3724" said:Because learning to play is hard.not for everyone, but some people need their crutch-mechanics apparently..

This is not a discussion primarily about balance and definitely not about skill, for me it was about enjoyable game-play, and how way too much stealth / too much up-time is making the game less enjoyable through lack of counters, long waits / fights that take way too long, fights that are only entertaining for one side (because nobody likes to wait, usually until the stealther mans up again with disengage and full health).

Additionally the stealth in this game is a bit poorly designed, since its so accessible even mid fight, and so much damage can be done from stealth, with server lag making players appear later then the damage etc., even ranged attacks can do this. Stealth classes have some of the best mobility also, quite silly really

The stealth in this game is designed well....

Nah it really isn't, but that aside stealth like pretty much every other aspect of combat was mainly designed and tuned around PvP conquest. Which is why in PvP stealth is basically fine because the biggest balance to it is the game mode itself. You think you are going to lose a fight in PvP then if you are on something that can easily disengage (stealth and/or high mobility) then it is fine, because you get punished for it by losing the capture point to your opponent, they are rewarded for outplaying you, you are punished for being outplayed / screwing up, as it should be.

In WvW roaming on the other hand stealth (and high mobility) are completely broken, I can play say mirage go attack some guy 1v1 get outplayed and then mostly disengage if I want, so I don't get punished for being outplayed, my opponent does not get rewarded for outplaying me, that breaks a key aspect of game design (PvP especially) risk vs reward. Just one of the many reasons WvW is a joke game mode and roaming died years ago.

you seem to 1 vs 1 for the node in spvp , and 1 vs 1 for no reason in WvW. in both modes just the kill alone already does provide score, so its as usefull to fight for fighting sake, while ignoring the nodes in a spvp match as it is in a WvW match.start fighting over something in WvW and you will win when your opponent disengages for the same reasons it works in spvp.

The difference being WvW basically fails as a competitive game mode where "winning" is based on population/coverage, dull game play like PvDoor and most matches are a foregone conclusion. So most veteran players do not really care about "winning" beyond any preference they may have for whom they face next match, which can also mean deliberately losing.

Then beyond the actions of a roamer are basically irrelevant to the score, not only are you a tiny unit out of thousands, you only play a small portion of the total match (unless one has no life), so will not change that outcome of a match. Which is why even entire zergs will sit at south camp spot doing "blob vs blob" whilst they lose objectives on another map or why some roamers let others capture a camp to have a 1v1 afterwards, because the mode is fundamentally broken as a competitive PvP match.

Where as PvP actually functions as a competitive game mode, you are 1 of 5 people and you play the entire duration, so people (yes AFK'ers aside) are bothered about winning so that gives meaningful value to capturing/keeping a node or killing an opponent as they try to rotate to the next node, it is all about the objectives the in conquest in a way it isn't in WvW.

so its not stealth that is the problem, but the players not playing competitive. sure the gamemode being designed in a impossible to balance way by requireing large teams for 168 hours is a major reason for this, but it doesnt change the fact that you only dont see it as a win there, because YOU choose to not bother about the match.but shouldnt you then use your time more asking to make the mode more relevant instead of wasting your time with effectst that are just a byproduct of the design flaw?

zinkz.7045 · March 5, 2019

@MUDse.7623 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@Loke.1429 said:
@"Kylden Ar.3724" said:Because learning to play is hard.not for everyone, but some people need their crutch-mechanics apparently..

This is not a discussion primarily about balance and definitely not about skill, for me it was about enjoyable game-play, and how way too much stealth / too much up-time is making the game less enjoyable through lack of counters, long waits / fights that take way too long, fights that are only entertaining for one side (because nobody likes to wait, usually until the stealther mans up again with disengage and full health).

Additionally the stealth in this game is a bit poorly designed, since its so accessible even mid fight, and so much damage can be done from stealth, with server lag making players appear later then the damage etc., even ranged attacks can do this. Stealth classes have some of the best mobility also, quite silly really

The stealth in this game is designed well....

Nah it really isn't, but that aside stealth like pretty much every other aspect of combat was mainly designed and tuned around PvP conquest. Which is why in PvP stealth is basically fine because the biggest balance to it is the game mode itself. You think you are going to lose a fight in PvP then if you are on something that can easily disengage (stealth and/or high mobility) then it is fine, because you get punished for it by losing the capture point to your opponent, they are rewarded for outplaying you, you are punished for being outplayed / screwing up, as it should be.

In WvW roaming on the other hand stealth (and high mobility) are completely broken, I can play say mirage go attack some guy 1v1 get outplayed and then mostly disengage if I want, so I don't get punished for being outplayed, my opponent does not get rewarded for outplaying me, that breaks a key aspect of game design (PvP especially) risk vs reward. Just one of the many reasons WvW is a joke game mode and roaming died years ago.

you seem to 1 vs 1 for the node in spvp , and 1 vs 1 for no reason in WvW. in both modes just the kill alone already does provide score, so its as usefull to fight for fighting sake, while ignoring the nodes in a spvp match as it is in a WvW match.start fighting over something in WvW and you will win when your opponent disengages for the same reasons it works in spvp.

The difference being WvW basically fails as a competitive game mode where "winning" is based on population/coverage, dull game play like PvDoor and most matches are a foregone conclusion. So most veteran players do not really care about "winning" beyond any preference they may have for whom they face next match, which can also mean deliberately losing.

Then beyond the actions of a roamer are basically irrelevant to the score, not only are you a tiny unit out of thousands, you only play a small portion of the total match (unless one has no life), so will not change that outcome of a match. Which is why even entire zergs will sit at south camp spot doing "blob vs blob" whilst they lose objectives on another map or why some roamers let others capture a camp to have a 1v1 afterwards, because the mode is fundamentally broken as a competitive PvP match.

Where as PvP actually functions as a competitive game mode, you are 1 of 5 people and you play the entire duration, so people (yes AFK'ers aside) are bothered about winning so that gives meaningful value to capturing/keeping a node or killing an opponent as they try to rotate to the next node, it is all about the objectives the in conquest in a way it isn't in WvW.

so its not stealth that is the problem, but the players not playing competitive. sure the gamemode being designed in a impossible to balance way by requireing large teams for 168 hours is a major reason for this, but it doesnt change the fact that you only dont see it as a win there, because YOU choose to not bother about the match.but shouldnt you then use your time more asking to make the mode more relevant instead of wasting your time with effectst that are just a byproduct of the design flaw?

I wouldn't say it is a choice to ignore the match, I just think that is the logical outcome for anyone sane given how imbalanced WvW matches, you can't make yourself care about "winning" when as a competition it is completely broken and not fit-for-purpose. But putting that aside even if by some miracle they had some system where WvW matches were competitive and there was a reason to care, it would still only mean stealth would be a bit better balanced than it is currently in WvW, there would still be other issues.

Such as the map size, open spaces and team size also make things like stealth / high mobility much stronger (imbalanced) in WvW than PvP where the capture points are much closer together (and also generally smaller than things like camps), there is much more LOS and much more being forced to fight over the capture point.

So sure one way to look at it is the basics of stealth are okay and it is WvW the game mode that is the problem, but that doesn't change that in WvW stealth (and many other things that don't really work there on the same basis as in PvP) is broken OP, so people will moan about it. Or do what most of the WvW population has done which is either leave the game, go to PvP or play WvW a lot less.

bq pd.2148 · March 5, 2019

@zinkz.7045 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@Loke.1429 said:
@"Kylden Ar.3724" said:Because learning to play is hard.not for everyone, but some people need their crutch-mechanics apparently..