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Revenants Need a Nerf

DaShi.1368

By DaShi.1368
in Player vs. Player

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tinyreborn.1938

tinyreborn.1938

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@apharma.3741 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:"I died by someone who is better then me, better nerf the entire class." Is all I'm reading here.Implying if revenant killed you means he is better than you ... Ppl still delusional about it ?

I didn't say the Rev was better because he killed him, it was clear from the post that OP doesn't know anything about Revenant and their kit and just got outskilled.Revenant does not have any high CC whatsoever. Evades neither. No instant teleport, he has 2 shadowsteps; One with 1200 range that has an animation and can be interrupted. One with 600 range that is instant. Rev has 2 unblockable attacks after using shiro's shadowstep and one unblockable attack with shiro's F2(barely good), but it has a high energy cost so you can't just spam it like op makes it look like they can. Revenant has CD on skills.

So this is really a l2p issue here.

I stopped to read at 'evades either' because they can chain lots of evades . Not long time ago Poosi was complaining about revs and been blown away from full to zero instant xD was hilarious to watch .Also no idea what op playing

Revenant has no acces to vigor unlike any class. So you'll have a slow endurance regeneration and less dodges than other classes. Besides dodges Revenant has 3 skills that can evade attacks. Staff 5 wich has a 20s CD. Shiro's Riposting Shadows wich uses 30 energy on use. Sword 3 wich 7-10 times bugs out and doesn't want to work properly(fix this anet).

Anyone saying Revenant has a lot of evades are completely delusional and forget about Mesmers, Weavers and thiefs who have way more evades.

Also if a Revenant was supposed to chain Riposting Shadow he will be unable to attack for a long time as he would be without any energy to use offensive skills.

Again, this is a l2p issue. OP got destroyed by someone he doesn't know how to play against and asks for nerfs after.

Funny how you missed out the block on staff and that riposting shadows gives you half a dodge.

You also forgot to mention how phase traverse and deathstrike can be used both offensively and defensively.

Also LUL at complaining about weaver evades, sure it's annoying and objectively too much but a weaver ain't going to 100-0 you in 1-2s.Reponding to him feeling like talkign to a wall tho :P
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apharma.3741

apharma.3741

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@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:"I died by someone who is better then me, better nerf the entire class." Is all I'm reading here.Implying if revenant killed you means he is better than you ... Ppl still delusional about it ?

I didn't say the Rev was better because he killed him, it was clear from the post that OP doesn't know anything about Revenant and their kit and just got outskilled.Revenant does not have any high CC whatsoever. Evades neither. No instant teleport, he has 2 shadowsteps; One with 1200 range that has an animation and can be interrupted. One with 600 range that is instant. Rev has 2 unblockable attacks after using shiro's shadowstep and one unblockable attack with shiro's F2(barely good), but it has a high energy cost so you can't just spam it like op makes it look like they can. Revenant has CD on skills.

So this is really a l2p issue here.

I stopped to read at 'evades either' because they can chain lots of evades . Not long time ago Poosi was complaining about revs and been blown away from full to zero instant xD was hilarious to watch .Also no idea what op playing

Revenant has no acces to vigor unlike any class. So you'll have a slow endurance regeneration and less dodges than other classes. Besides dodges Revenant has 3 skills that can evade attacks. Staff 5 wich has a 20s CD. Shiro's Riposting Shadows wich uses 30 energy on use. Sword 3 wich 7-10 times bugs out and doesn't want to work properly(fix this anet).

Anyone saying Revenant has a lot of evades are completely delusional and forget about Mesmers, Weavers and thiefs who have way more evades.

Also if a Revenant was supposed to chain Riposting Shadow he will be unable to attack for a long time as he would be without any energy to use offensive skills.

Again, this is a l2p issue. OP got destroyed by someone he doesn't know how to play against and asks for nerfs after.

Funny how you missed out the block on staff and that riposting shadows gives you half a dodge.

You also forgot to mention how phase traverse and deathstrike can be used both offensively and defensively.

Also LUL at complaining about weaver evades, sure it's annoying and objectively too much but a weaver ain't going to 100-0 you in 1-2s.Reponding to him feeling like talkign to a wall tho :P

Well Rev damage in the current stupid damage meta isn't anything ridiculous for it's survivability but people shouldn't act like rev is weak, it's anything but weak.

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herrmartell.7109

herrmartell.7109

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@apharma.3741 said:

a weaver ain't going to 100-0 you in 1-2s.

A revenant shouldn't either. Just go back to sPvP and get better.

You missed the point.

I don't missed it. I just don't agree with it. See the difference?

It's OK I don't have high expectations of new players.

Been playing since 2014. Not that it matters. You still need to get better.

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apharma.3741

apharma.3741

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@herrmartell.7109 said:

a weaver ain't going to 100-0 you in 1-2s.

A revenant shouldn't either. Just go back to sPvP and get better.

You missed the point.

I don't missed it. I just don't agree with it. See the difference?

It's OK I don't have high expectations of new players.

Been playing since 2014. Not that it matters. You still need to get better.

No you did miss the point, a weaver cannot 100-0 you in 1-2s except on scepter and you'll see it coming as it has poor blinking abilities. A rev can blink on you and 100-0 you from 1500 range.

I wouldn't admit to being here since 2014 if you don't understand the difference between a rev 100-0 and a weaver 100-0.

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JayAction.9056

JayAction.9056

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@apharma.3741 said:

a weaver ain't going to 100-0 you in 1-2s.

A revenant shouldn't either. Just go back to sPvP and get better.

You missed the point.

I don't missed it. I just don't agree with it. See the difference?

It's OK I don't have high expectations of new players.

Been playing since 2014. Not that it matters. You still need to get better.

No you did miss the point, a weaver cannot 100-0 you in 1-2s except on scepter and you'll see it coming as it has poor blinking abilities. A rev can blink on you and 100-0 you from 1500 range.

I wouldn't admit to being here since 2014 if you don't understand the difference between a rev 100-0 and a weaver 100-0.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AtlALfbxigw

Weaver damage much higher than rev. Rev is not capable of that damage no matter how glassy. Rev also can not sustain like weaver, unless you are pure healing.

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apharma.3741

apharma.3741

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@JayAction.9056 said:

a weaver ain't going to 100-0 you in 1-2s.

A revenant shouldn't either. Just go back to sPvP and get better.

You missed the point.

I don't missed it. I just don't agree with it. See the difference?

It's OK I don't have high expectations of new players.

Been playing since 2014. Not that it matters. You still need to get better.

No you did miss the point, a weaver cannot 100-0 you in 1-2s except on scepter and you'll see it coming as it has poor blinking abilities. A rev can blink on you and 100-0 you from 1500 range.

I wouldn't admit to being here since 2014 if you don't understand the difference between a rev 100-0 and a weaver 100-0.

Weaver damage much higher than rev. Rev is not capable of that damage no matter how glassy. Rev also can not sustain like weaver, unless you are pure healing.

Yes how silly of me, I forgot about that weaver one shot from absolutely no where onto people with very little tells. Oh my I am burned, I will have to bathe in ointment for several days now.

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idolin.2831

idolin.2831

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@JayAction.9056 said:

a weaver ain't going to 100-0 you in 1-2s.

A revenant shouldn't either. Just go back to sPvP and get better.

You missed the point.

I don't missed it. I just don't agree with it. See the difference?

It's OK I don't have high expectations of new players.

Been playing since 2014. Not that it matters. You still need to get better.

No you did miss the point, a weaver cannot 100-0 you in 1-2s except on scepter and you'll see it coming as it has poor blinking abilities. A rev can blink on you and 100-0 you from 1500 range.

I wouldn't admit to being here since 2014 if you don't understand the difference between a rev 100-0 and a weaver 100-0.

Weaver damage much higher than rev. Rev is not capable of that damage no matter how glassy. Rev also can not sustain like weaver, unless you are pure healing.

Hmm but weaver can't do both at the same time. As soon as people realize you're running a meme one-shot churning earth build you're get focused and will likely go down pretty easily. Rev can't deal that much damage in 1 shot, but it can still deal very decent burst damage (one of the best in the game even), and likely won't die as easily as the weaver running a one-shot build.

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Solori.6025

Solori.6025

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@JayAction.9056 said:

a weaver ain't going to 100-0 you in 1-2s.

A revenant shouldn't either. Just go back to sPvP and get better.

You missed the point.

I don't missed it. I just don't agree with it. See the difference?

It's OK I don't have high expectations of new players.

Been playing since 2014. Not that it matters. You still need to get better.

No you did miss the point, a weaver cannot 100-0 you in 1-2s except on scepter and you'll see it coming as it has poor blinking abilities. A rev can blink on you and 100-0 you from 1500 range.

I wouldn't admit to being here since 2014 if you don't understand the difference between a rev 100-0 and a weaver 100-0.

Weaver damage much higher than rev. Rev is not capable of that damage no matter how glassy. Rev also can not sustain like weaver, unless you are pure healing.

Why link a WvW vid in the spvp section?

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Snellibee.2761

Snellibee.2761

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@apharma.3741 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:"I died by someone who is better then me, better nerf the entire class." Is all I'm reading here.Implying if revenant killed you means he is better than you ... Ppl still delusional about it ?

I didn't say the Rev was better because he killed him, it was clear from the post that OP doesn't know anything about Revenant and their kit and just got outskilled.Revenant does not have any high CC whatsoever. Evades neither. No instant teleport, he has 2 shadowsteps; One with 1200 range that has an animation and can be interrupted. One with 600 range that is instant. Rev has 2 unblockable attacks after using shiro's shadowstep and one unblockable attack with shiro's F2(barely good), but it has a high energy cost so you can't just spam it like op makes it look like they can. Revenant has CD on skills.

So this is really a l2p issue here.

I stopped to read at 'evades either' because they can chain lots of evades . Not long time ago Poosi was complaining about revs and been blown away from full to zero instant xD was hilarious to watch .Also no idea what op playing

Revenant has no acces to vigor unlike any class. So you'll have a slow endurance regeneration and less dodges than other classes. Besides dodges Revenant has 3 skills that can evade attacks. Staff 5 wich has a 20s CD. Shiro's Riposting Shadows wich uses 30 energy on use. Sword 3 wich 7-10 times bugs out and doesn't want to work properly(fix this anet).

Anyone saying Revenant has a lot of evades are completely delusional and forget about Mesmers, Weavers and thiefs who have way more evades.

Also if a Revenant was supposed to chain Riposting Shadow he will be unable to attack for a long time as he would be without any energy to use offensive skills.

Again, this is a l2p issue. OP got destroyed by someone he doesn't know how to play against and asks for nerfs after.

Funny how you missed out the block on staff and that riposting shadows gives you half a dodge.

You also forgot to mention how phase traverse and deathstrike can be used both offensively and defensively.

Also LUL at complaining about weaver evades, sure it's annoying and objectively too much but a weaver ain't going to 100-0 you in 1-2s.

We were talking about evades, not blocks.Also I main Weaver so I'm not complaining about it, I'm just stating facts. Weaver scepter FA can do more burst damage than Revenant can.

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mortrialus.3062

mortrialus.3062

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@Solori.6025 said:

a weaver ain't going to 100-0 you in 1-2s.

A revenant shouldn't either. Just go back to sPvP and get better.

You missed the point.

I don't missed it. I just don't agree with it. See the difference?

It's OK I don't have high expectations of new players.

Been playing since 2014. Not that it matters. You still need to get better.

No you did miss the point, a weaver cannot 100-0 you in 1-2s except on scepter and you'll see it coming as it has poor blinking abilities. A rev can blink on you and 100-0 you from 1500 range.

I wouldn't admit to being here since 2014 if you don't understand the difference between a rev 100-0 and a weaver 100-0.

Weaver damage much higher than rev. Rev is not capable of that damage no matter how glassy. Rev also can not sustain like weaver, unless you are pure healing.

Why link a WvW vid in the spvp section?

I've been hit by an almost 28k churning earth in SPvP from a weaver while playing Mirage with Carrion Amulet. The 38k extremes in the video is likely impossible, but you don't need that to one shot most people.

56SdJiW.png

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Axl.8924

Axl.8924

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@Mini Crinny.6190 said:I think we can say that according to 99% of the playerbase, every class needs a nerf so long as it's not the class they play

People would always rather cry nerf than learn how to counter stuff, been for a while.

People have explained for instance about condi on mirage, and they still cry for it even though condi now is not as strong as it used to be because:

A:Counters to condiB:Every condi build has been nerfed to the ground.

And when you explain to someone that scourge has a counter, they ignore it and still cry nerf anyways, which happened months ago but people don't care, they just want to win regardless if its fair for the other side as well and fun.

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apharma.3741

apharma.3741

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@herrmartell.7109 said:

@"apharma.3741" said:No you did miss the point, a weaver cannot 100-0 you in 1-2s except on scepter and you'll see it coming as it has poor blinking abilities. A rev can blink on you and 100-0 you from 1500 range.

I dare you to point out which Revenant skill has a 1,500 range. I DARE YOU.

These are the only ways a Revenant can close the gap between you and him:
<= 900
<= 600
<= 1200 (and this one only works underwater)

Now, let's check a Revenant's ranged skills:
<= 900 An example of Renegade's range
<= 1200 You can't die vs a Revenant's hammer unless you are sucidal

None of these skills are hard hitters, and none can be spammed. The joke's on you.

I wouldn't admit to being here since 2014 if you don't understand the difference between a rev 100-0 and a weaver 100-0.

LOL you just keep making a fool out of yourself.

OK.

So as others have pointed out Phase Traversal -> Deathstrike is 1800 but a realistic estimate is 1500 and phase traversal grants quickness so you'll get that damage as a +1 from deathstrike most of the time especially when done from such a range if the person doesn't see you. Lets count the skill coefficients:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike 0.3https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike_(second_skill) 2.0https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision_Strike 0.49 x3https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shackling_Wave 2.25 (note cast time increased to just under 1s so more counter to the follow up after DS, quickness makes it about 0.6s)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assault 0.57 (I think this is per strike so x5 for 2.8)

So the best thing to do is PT -> DS -> DS 2nd hit -> Precision Strike for a total of 3.8 in skill coefficients. If instead you used Unrelenting Assault you'd get 5.1, Shackling Wave you'd get 4.5 hence the cast increase we saw in the patch.

What about weaver though?https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plasma_Beam 2.2https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Electric_Discharge 0.25 x2https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Strike 1.2https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Blast 1.4

So clearly if we use all these skill we get a total coefficient of 5.1 FA weaver is the clear winner in burst...but it has to be within 900 range to do it while the rev can be much further away however in range ele can burst slightly faster than the rev depending on which skills rev uses, ele takes about 1.25s while the rev takes 1.5-2s depending on quickness. Ele would have to burn LF do close this gap and is unlikely to do so especially if they wish to use it as part of burst which would be completely unnecessary and a fools move when they're rocking 5.1 in total coefficients.

That's not the whole picture though, rev can stack as many damage bonuses as ele while getting to and maintaining 25 might which gives 50% more power damage and near 100% crit chance. This gives an exceptionally high amount of damage over weaver especially using burst of strength before hand which would push the damage into competitive levels with a weaver easily. Also ele's follow up is complete garbage while rev maintains high pressure in a +1 role while having the tools to survive if needed.

That's just on paper, the reality is Rev has vastly outperformed weaver for +1 for a long time now hence why you barely see FA weavers and see revs far more often.

Rev needs a nerf but so does every class nearly, everything has been dialled up to 11 with HoT then PoF took this even further.

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Solori.6025

Solori.6025

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@apharma.3741 said:

@apharma.3741 said:No you did miss the point, a weaver cannot 100-0 you in 1-2s except on scepter and you'll see it coming as it has poor blinking abilities. A rev can blink on you and 100-0 you from 1500 range.

I dare you to point out which Revenant skill has a 1,500 range. I DARE YOU.

These are the only ways a Revenant can close the gap between you and him:
<= 900
<= 600
<= 1200 (and this one only works underwater)

Now, let's check a Revenant's ranged skills:
<= 900 An example of Renegade's range
<= 1200 You can't die vs a Revenant's hammer unless you are sucidal

None of these skills are hard hitters, and none can be spammed. The joke's on you.

I wouldn't admit to being here since 2014 if you don't understand the difference between a rev 100-0 and a weaver 100-0.

LOL you just keep making a fool out of yourself.

OK.

So as others have pointed out Phase Traversal -> Deathstrike is 1800 but a realistic estimate is 1500 and phase traversal grants quickness so you'll get that damage as a +1 from deathstrike most of the time especially when done from such a range if the person doesn't see you. Lets count the skill coefficients:

0.3
) 2.0
0.49 x3
2.25 (note cast time increased to just under 1s so more counter to the follow up after DS, quickness makes it about 0.6s)
0.57 (I think this is per strike so x5 for 2.8)

So the best thing to do is PT -> DS -> DS 2nd hit -> Precision Strike for a total of 3.8 in skill coefficients. If instead you used Unrelenting Assault you'd get 5.1, Shackling Wave you'd get 4.5 hence the cast increase we saw in the patch.

What about weaver though?
2.2
0.25 x2
1.2
1.4

So clearly if we use all these skill we get a total coefficient of 5.1 FA weaver is the clear winner in burst...but it has to be within 900 range to do it while the rev can be much further away however in range ele can burst slightly faster than the rev depending on which skills rev uses, ele takes about 1.25s while the rev takes 1.5-2s depending on quickness. Ele would have to burn LF do close this gap and is unlikely to do so especially if they wish to use it as part of burst which would be completely unnecessary and a fools move when they're rocking 5.1 in total coefficients.

That's not the whole picture though, rev can stack as many damage bonuses as ele while getting to and maintaining 25 might which gives 50% more power damage and near 100% crit chance. This gives an exceptionally high amount of damage over weaver especially using burst of strength before hand which would push the damage into competitive levels with a weaver easily. Also ele's follow up is complete garbage while rev maintains high pressure in a +1 role while having the tools to survive if needed.

That's just on paper, the reality is Rev has vastly outperformed weaver for +1 for a long time now hence why you barely see FA weavers and see revs far more often.

Rev needs a nerf but so does every class nearly, everything has been dialled up to 11 with HoT then PoF took this even further.

Edit: Actually scratch all of that.I didn't realize energy regen was so fastYou right

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Burnfall.9573

Burnfall.9573

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just few minutes ago; i was hit with 10k+ with this skill https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Smash This skill has a 1¼ recharge. I suggest Anet to reduce its effects and increase its charges.

I rarely address other professions of being broken besides the mains but Anet seriously need to take a closer look at Rev including spellbreaker. Anet please check my log.

( I do applause Anet of addressing and minimizing 1 shotting )

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apharma.3741

apharma.3741

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@Solori.6025 said:

@apharma.3741 said:No you did miss the point, a weaver cannot 100-0 you in 1-2s except on scepter and you'll see it coming as it has poor blinking abilities. A rev can blink on you and 100-0 you from 1500 range.

I dare you to point out which Revenant skill has a 1,500 range. I DARE YOU.

These are the only ways a Revenant can close the gap between you and him:
<= 900
<= 600
<= 1200 (and this one only works underwater)

Now, let's check a Revenant's ranged skills:
<= 900 An example of Renegade's range
<= 1200 You can't die vs a Revenant's hammer unless you are sucidal

None of these skills are hard hitters, and none can be spammed. The joke's on you.

I wouldn't admit to being here since 2014 if you don't understand the difference between a rev 100-0 and a weaver 100-0.

LOL you just keep making a fool out of yourself.

OK.

So as others have pointed out Phase Traversal -> Deathstrike is 1800 but a realistic estimate is 1500 and phase traversal grants quickness so you'll get that damage as a +1 from deathstrike most of the time especially when done from such a range if the person doesn't see you. Lets count the skill coefficients:

0.3
) 2.0
0.49 x3
2.25 (note cast time increased to just under 1s so more counter to the follow up after DS, quickness makes it about 0.6s)
0.57 (I think this is per strike so x5 for 2.8)

So the best thing to do is PT -> DS -> DS 2nd hit -> Precision Strike for a total of 3.8 in skill coefficients. If instead you used Unrelenting Assault you'd get 5.1, Shackling Wave you'd get 4.5 hence the cast increase we saw in the patch.

What about weaver though?
2.2
0.25 x2
1.2
1.4

So clearly if we use all these skill we get a total coefficient of 5.1 FA weaver is the clear winner in burst...but it has to be within 900 range to do it while the rev can be much further away however in range ele can burst slightly faster than the rev depending on which skills rev uses, ele takes about 1.25s while the rev takes 1.5-2s depending on quickness. Ele would have to burn LF do close this gap and is unlikely to do so especially if they wish to use it as part of burst which would be completely unnecessary and a fools move when they're rocking 5.1 in total coefficients.

That's not the whole picture though, rev can stack as many damage bonuses as ele while getting to and maintaining 25 might which gives 50% more power damage and near 100% crit chance. This gives an exceptionally high amount of damage over weaver especially using burst of strength before hand which would push the damage into competitive levels with a weaver easily. Also ele's follow up is complete garbage while rev maintains high pressure in a +1 role while having the tools to survive if needed.

That's just on paper, the reality is Rev has vastly outperformed weaver for +1 for a long time now hence why you barely see FA weavers and see revs far more often.

Rev needs a nerf but so does every class nearly, everything has been dialled up to 11 with HoT then PoF took this even further.

It's actually not slightly faster. An Ele burst Much faster than a rev-

After Phase Traversal and shackling wave you will have used 45 energy- on a fresh engage that means you then have to switch legends, then continue, then hope you aren't counter bursted, as rev doesn't have the sustain once those skills you listed are used.Like we have to factor in energy for everything a rev does as well. Just listing skills doesn't do any justice as they ( revenants) have to be actively managing resources.

True but you also have to factor in time taken to get to the +1 if they start at the same point, if you PT, DS you've used 45 energy for the +1 but you got there much faster than the ele. If you just use PT + Shackling Wave you covered less distance but you also immob the person which is going to help with follow up but is a slower combo even with quickness. If you PT+Precision strike you retain much more energy but it does less damage.

There's a ton of variables and as you say energy needs to be accounted for as well which is why I only listed 2 skill combos when adding rev coefficients as they can really only use 2 then legend swap and precision strike after that because of it's low cost. That's without mentioning did they use burst of strength and switch to shiro? How much might do they have? Those will affect survivability and damage considerably.

Either way if focused a FA weaver will go down much faster than a rev if they're using arcane blast. If the weaver doesn't use arcane blast (uses arcane shield) the damage from FA weaver is lowered a lot but can get more survivability however at that point rev would burst better no matter the combo. This is why I said that in reality people are and have been using rev instead of FA weaver for a long time now, it's rare enough to see ele's let alone a FA weaver.

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Burnfall.9573

Burnfall.9573

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@Hugheszie.6291 said:Why is it, in all MMO's, one player dies because they couldn't counter somebody, one player from millions and they call for an entire class to be nerfed? Why are games supposed to be easy peasy in 2018? Quit asking to Nerf everything you personally don't play and/or like fighting against.

'If one team or player starts with an obviously-better position than others, or possesses a wild card or special ability/abilities that guarantees them a win, then the game is unfair.'

It is not about being easy or winning or even about who play or like what profession or not

The matter are in Giving The Advantage and In Guarantee Of Winning

That is why we point out those matters to Anet to finally do something about it!!

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