Ban ArcDPS and any third party program

[Hugheszie.6291]

Any of you played WOW? Because this is one of the things that killed our community over there... And why we play GW2 now... I've just realised... We're ruining this too.

DAMNIT.

[Zychuu.7294]

@Hugheszie.6291 said:Any of you played WOW? Because this is one of the things that killed our community over there... And why we play GW2 now... I've just realised... We're ruining this too.

DAMNIT.

Newer played WoW for more than a battle chest's 1st month. Care to elaborate?

[Rankomonaut.4708]

At first I thought you pointed in the direction of constant crashes when using ArcDPS - as is the case when I do. I was going to ask how to circumvent this constant crashing when entering home instances.

But.

Seeing what this is about again I'd say yes, it's not the problem.

IF anything is problematic then it's the choice to lock rewards behind a high skill wall when everything else is available via blinking an eye. When 2012 Anet told the players they could play as they wanted, they believed it. And they still did back in 2015 (23.10. - my sisters birthday btw) when HoT and raids were introduced. Many didn't ask for raids and were sour about the very existence of hardcore endgame content. And to be honest, I can understand that; some people feel punished for being casual players, that still bought from Anet.

But as implied before, it's a big IF.

I use the program only for its build changing extra (When A-Net, when? I beg you!) but sometimes I mistype and open the dps meter - and yes, it's helpful to check your dps and compare it with others, some healthy competition is always (encou-)raging to become better.Before people could see dps values they kicked players for playing ranger or thief or something else, just think about it. It's the lesser evil, but probably evil nontheless.

[santso.9201]

I find toxic casuals who want these tools banned much larger problem.

[Menzo.2185]

I really disagree that and I think Anet should introduce his own DPSMeter to the game, but ArcDPS is awesome how it is.The meter is not a issue, ppl are.

[starhunter.6015]

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@"nosleepdemon.1368" said:There appears to be a prevailing thought pattern among players crying for Arc DPS to be banned, that their poor performance should somehow be hidden from scrutiny, and that those of us who prefer to benchmark the performance of the group are infected with that

dastardly

word -

Toxic

behaviour.

Rather than improve their own performance, or indeed, even face the possibility that they are not (yet) able to perform at the required level for whatever content they are attempting, they would force their team mates to carry them until the entire group falls apart.

I've used Arc DPS to benchmark my Revenant's damage, as the rotation is rather more complex than what I've previously been used to. I also use it in Fractals to check how me and my team mates are doing. It is an invaluable tool for self improvement, and for checking who in a group may not be suitable for whatever content that group is doing. On several occasions I have apologised for my own poor performance in T4 fractals and voluntarily left the group, because it has been obvious that I have been holding my group back, that I need more practice at lower tiers or with a practice group. That's the fair, right and responsible thing to do, in my opinion.

Rather than ban Arc DPS, I think it might be time for everyone to accept that they can't necessarily do all content all of the time; That there might be some content that is a little more exclusive, requires a little more experience and time investment in the game, and that this is not a bad thing.

Arc DPS isn't the problem; It's this attitude of forced inclusivity and the removal of any tool that may get in the way of this agenda.

I urge Arena Net and the player base at large not to give in to this, and instead to encourage the use of tools that allow players to see, with a degree of accuracy, how they actually measure up to their own and other's expectations.

Have you ever heard of the term "Privacy"? ARC DPS and programs like it, is toxic. Not for any of the reasons you mentioned, It's fine that high end players kick low end players if they don't want them there. It's fine that they advertise for elite parties and that they kick people who do not live up to that standard.But invading peoples private space, is not okay. I urge you to consider how it feels for players who are here to play a game, to have their performance IN A GAME, measured, as though it was some kind of job.The toxicity of these kinds of software, is making people back away from the game, because we're here to have fun, not to work.Maybe it's time for the High end elitist's to accept that this is a game, you're supposed to play it, not work it. Even if you do work it, you cannot by any means demand the right to invade other peoples private space, doing so is not okay.

you damage IS NOT private. invalid argument,sry.

My gear, my inventory, what food I chose to eat, how well I perform that day due to whatever reason, yes, it is private. And when other people can tell me what gear I wear, then no, that's not based on anything you find in the combat log.

If they are telling you what gear you are wearing, then it is not ArcDPS they are using. They are using a illegal mod/hack. Report them and move on.

[Zenith.7301]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@"Dragon Priestess.9760" said:I shouldn't have to perform to some player made standard in order to join a casual raid/fractal.

Idc what people think, I have other hobbies and if I'm being made to grind for ascended gear just to be accepted - I'll end up hating everything and leave the game. I'm not into that stuff. I'll do what I want to do, for fun. I don't play to have the best gear. I play to enjoy the world.

I make the effort to learn the mechanics of the raid/fractal. That should be good enough for someone who wants to stay at the beginner levels. I do NOT need full ascended and meta rotation for causal raid/ fractals.

This competitive 'everyone needs to have meta/ do this much dps' kitten is not why I'm here.

There's nothing casual about a raid, and the moment you start taking up other people's time your fun and individual wants are overridden by the needs of the group.

Not to fret, because if you want to not give a kitten about others' standards you can always play single player RPG's which allows you all the suboptimal build flexibility that you want.

to be honest, W1-4 are pretty casual these days, the training group i run with rarely fails to kill a boss in those wings with no comms, and brand new players to raids.

"easier" on average is one thing. I would not call Matthias or Xera casual at all, and the amount of sub 10k DPS I've seen in training runs on Gorseval (essentially a training dummy) is depressing.

[mortrialus.3062]

I'd rather they ban people demanding Anet Ban ArcDPS.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@"nosleepdemon.1368" said:There appears to be a prevailing thought pattern among players crying for Arc DPS to be banned, that their poor performance should somehow be hidden from scrutiny, and that those of us who prefer to benchmark the performance of the group are infected with that

dastardly

word -

Toxic

behaviour.

Rather than improve their own performance, or indeed, even face the possibility that they are not (yet) able to perform at the required level for whatever content they are attempting, they would force their team mates to carry them until the entire group falls apart.

I've used Arc DPS to benchmark my Revenant's damage, as the rotation is rather more complex than what I've previously been used to. I also use it in Fractals to check how me and my team mates are doing. It is an invaluable tool for self improvement, and for checking who in a group may not be suitable for whatever content that group is doing. On several occasions I have apologised for my own poor performance in T4 fractals and voluntarily left the group, because it has been obvious that I have been holding my group back, that I need more practice at lower tiers or with a practice group. That's the fair, right and responsible thing to do, in my opinion.

Rather than ban Arc DPS, I think it might be time for everyone to accept that they can't necessarily do all content all of the time; That there might be some content that is a little more exclusive, requires a little more experience and time investment in the game, and that this is not a bad thing.

Arc DPS isn't the problem; It's this attitude of forced inclusivity and the removal of any tool that may get in the way of this agenda.

I urge Arena Net and the player base at large not to give in to this, and instead to encourage the use of tools that allow players to see, with a degree of accuracy, how they actually measure up to their own and other's expectations.

Have you ever heard of the term "Privacy"? ARC DPS and programs like it, is toxic. Not for any of the reasons you mentioned, It's fine that high end players kick low end players if they don't want them there. It's fine that they advertise for elite parties and that they kick people who do not live up to that standard.But invading peoples private space, is not okay. I urge you to consider how it feels for players who are here to play a game, to have their performance IN A GAME, measured, as though it was some kind of job.The toxicity of these kinds of software, is making people back away from the game, because we're here to have fun, not to work.Maybe it's time for the High end elitist's to accept that this is a game, you're supposed to play it, not work it. Even if you do work it, you cannot by any means demand the right to invade other peoples private space, doing so is not okay.

you damage IS NOT private. invalid argument,sry.

My gear, my inventory,

what food I chose to eat

, how well I perform that day due to whatever reason, yes, it is private. And when other people can tell me what gear I wear, then no, that's not based on anything you find in the combat log.

I can see your foodbuffs on your character. Like I can just mouse over the buff on you and see. You don't even need a DPS meter it's all in game.

Also gear check is not part of ArcDPS and there is no legal gear check in GW2 right now as far as I'm aware of and the previous only other DPS meter, BGDM, got the creator Perma banned for a hidden gear check feature.

[Odinens.5920]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:There appears to be a prevailing thought pattern among players crying for Arc DPS to be banned,

that their poor performance should somehow be hidden from scrutiny

, ...

Quit reading after this statement. This is the reason people don't want it. That attitude right there.

I have used dps meters in other games, but don't feel the need to have one in this game.

Do I care if people use it? No.

Do I care if you generalize me for not wanting to use it? Yep. Tell you what, you give me any class and a week to learn its rotation, and the gear needed for whatever content you want, and I'll out dps you...I don't need a meter. You don't need a meter....you don't know me, and at this point I don't care to know you. Got nothing to hide. I just don't feel the need to use one.

The problem is that people like you automatically think people have something to hide by not wanting it.

You are not who he is complaining about. Nobody has to use a dps meter for basic practice. The golem is absolutely sufficient for that. Unfortunately the golem has limitations.

The issue is with people who do not want others to use a meter because they fear their performance might get scrutinized (which I feel is the incorrect approach, nobody deserves to get flack for poor performance. Keep it short, tell them their performance was lacking and remove them. If you feel generous initiate a conversation and give pointers).

Also let's be clear, the most groups don't kick someone because he was 1-2k off in his performance. They kick people who are so far off that support builds are outperforming them and other damage dealers are a significant amount above their performance.

I realize he wasn't talking about me specifically. My point was about the generalization that people tend to make about others not wanting to use ArcDPS. That it has something to do with trying to hide crappy play. That is ridiculous. I don't personally use it because I don't feel the need to, and yes I'll occasionally ask people that are using it what my numbers are, because why not?

I honestly don't feel like having to update an addon every time there's a patch in the game, and then research said addon every time to make sure it still fits in fine with Anet's ToS. I don't need it, and don't want to use it.

[BigEL.3516]

I hope they actually integrate it into their game so it doesn't crash anymore after updates :) and a gear checker in the game would be even better :) thx in advance Anet

[Dante.1763]

@"Zenith.7301" said:

to be honest, W1-4 are pretty casual these days, the training group i run with rarely fails to kill a boss in those wings with no comms, and brand new players to raids.

"easier" on average is one thing. I would not call Matthias or Xera casual at all, and the amount of sub 10k DPS I've seen in training runs on Gorseval (essentially a training dummy) is depressing.

Oh those two are not casual, should have been more clear, the bosses leading up to the final encounters. My group has never cleared Xera,(we rarely do that wing for some reason) Matthias isnt to bad, but its easy to fail if you arent paying attention, 10-10.5k is average for my Condi SB on Gorseval, anything higher than that i dont see how to get, and ive only managed to get 11k DPS on him with Staff Weaver.

@BigEL.3516 said:I hope they actually integrate it into their game so it doesn't crash anymore after updates :) and a gear checker in the game would be even better :) thx in advance Anet

DPS meter in game, gear check, no.

[deltaconnected.4058]

@"Astralporing.1957" said:While there are/were hacks to check someone's inventory, there's no way at all to check your bank account using third party programs or hacks. The client simply does not have that info unless you're actually looking inside your bank, and even then it is in your client only, not accessible to others. The only way to do so would be through API, but that would require you to give someone your api key (so, basically, allow them to see that information).So, i seriously doubt your story,

On a technical level, your client is aware of everything in your own "inventory" at all times (meaning it is aware of bags, equipped, bank, shared, encumbered, etc even if you don't have them open or are near them). For other players the only populated storage is their current equipped items. As far as I'm aware this has always been the case. Though yes, the only way anyone would be able to read out another player's bank would be externally to the game like a public profile on efficiency or somehow getting hold of an API key they created.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@gateless gate.8406 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:Why should they be banned? Also a commander cannot be kicked and the party has a majority vote, which isn't exactly easy to abuse. What you're saying doesn't make much sense. You're able to kick the underperformer, that's all you need to be able to have a group full of people who aren't bad.

It's just a personal preference. I think DPS meters leads people to overemphasize numbers. I've seen it time and again in other MMOs (where DPS meters are more widespread). A player will stand in lethal boss mechanics because they want to keep DPS high, or will berate someone who is performing all boss mechanics correctly for having middling DPS.

Secondly, I think people get overly particular about DPS numbers. One class may do 40k DPS while bringing zero utility and being a fragile glass cannon. Meanwhile, another class may do 36k DPS but bring utility and survivability. People will berate the 36k player for playing a "useless" and "low DPS" class because all the extra things they bring are

non-quantifiable

. There is no meter showing how many times that 36k player prevented himself from being downed (thereby preventing the massive DPS loss that is rezzing), or enhanced group DPS through boons. The fact that those things are much harder to quantify means players undervalue them.

Thirdly, I think it encourages developers to make smarter, more fun enemy encounters. If DPS meters are in the game, people will begin bringing the high DPS classes. That means average group/raid damage begins skyrocketing relative to damage prior to the introduction of DPS meters, which in turn means developers need to start raising boss HP and implementing enrage timers.

Regarding the issue of a commander being kicked from their own group, I was referring to 5-man groups.

Dps meter is toxic tool. Game got more toxic since it came . For first maybe anet had a reason to not impliment one into game no one thinks of that

How is it a toxic tool? Everyone is saying its toxic, or causes toxicity, but no one tells how.And uts funny that you said the game got more toxic, but i have not experienced such.On the conteary, with better qualifiable parameters, toxicity had dropped a little.Before it was just berserker plus some AP. And downing once meant being kicked.

[Ashen.2907]

@Odinens.5920 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:There appears to be a prevailing thought pattern among players crying for Arc DPS to be banned,

that their poor performance should somehow be hidden from scrutiny

, ...

Quit reading after this statement. This is the reason people don't want it. That attitude right there.

I have used dps meters in other games, but don't feel the need to have one in this game. Do I care if people use it? No. Do I care if you generalize me for not wanting to use it? Yep. Tell you what, you give me any class and a week to learn its rotation, and the gear needed for whatever content you want, and I'll out dps you...I don't need a meter. You don't need a meter....you don't know me, and at this point I don't care to know you. Got nothing to hide. I just don't feel the need to use one.

The problem is that people like you automatically think people have something to hide by not wanting it.

There is a huge difference between you not wanting to use it and those calling for it to banned so that others cannot use it in their own groups.

[Draco.9480]

dishonest players don't want to be exposed playing badly so they can get their way everywhere, and leech the rewards. good dps meters implemented to expose those bad players and kick 'em for dragging down the team. in the past i couldn't tell why killing a boss was so slow before HoT. you didn't know who was the one doing bad dps. now we can see who's the problem and not judge by berserker gear and AP anymore. if bad players that don't deal enough dps don't want their dps to be seen they can go to open world and hit lame ai that no one will judge their dps. we should have inspect option to check gear, traits and rating like in WoW. they have the inspect option to see, so it could save time before starting the dps.

[KeoLegend.5132]

@Davion Roth.6709 said:

@"KeoLegend.5132" said:Stop crying, download ARCDPS, train and get better. All those "elitists" youre calling had to spend hours to learn the perfect rotation, why shouldn't you?

While I generally try to know my rotations, play good builds, and do my best to play well at all times, what I would say to this is that it's a game, not a job. Expecting to be perfect is unreasonable, and I don't care who you are, nobody plays perfect at all times (even though they like to act like they do).

Then its simple bro.The game is for casuals and hardcoresif you dont want to be a hardcore dont try to play hardcore content. I am far from perfect and i hate that hardcore pressure, thats why i almost never do raids. Did you see me comming here to complain about raid elitists? They have their right to do so, because they spent their time like a job to get the perfect rotation, just for someone that doesn't want to get 10% of their effort complain about being excluded for being subpar.

If you do the same thing at your job, well, expect to get fired or at least never get promoted.

The game is meant to be FUN for everyone! Some ppl likes to grind, some hate. Some love hard content, some hate. Some love to treat raid like a job and aim for the perfect rotation against the boss and the clock, some hate it.

So be happy and play what you love. I love fractals, i love the hard content of it, and the pacing, etc. Everytime i got kicked out due not knowing the fight, not having the DPS, dying too much... i never went here to complain about how elitist they were to kick me. Instead i worked hard to get better and better, trained, spent hours on guides, and now im the one recruiting and teaching a couple that i learned to the ppl that wants to fractal!

Welcome to world, nothing is easy. Nothing is without effort. If you see something isn't worthy of your effort, go put it somewhere else and dont demand those who wants to put effort to accept you're lack of effort on it!

[Khalisto.5780]

back in the day when dungeons were giving gold, and all runs were speed runs, if you made 2 mechanical mistakes you were kicked, so nothing to do with dpsmeters

[Dual.8953]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Applejuice.4083 said:How do you expect people to learn and stay end game, when its filled with elitism?

Was it a training run? If it wasn't then don't join a group that wants to finish the content and instead find one that offers training. The fault is on the player that joined the wrong group.

@Mea.5491 said:We had fun and that's what matters in a video game.

If you find endless wipes fun then that's good for you. On the other hand, I'm positive lots of players prefer smooth runs.

Nowadays if your gear is not perfect, if you make one little mistake in your rotation or if your damage is

MUCH MUCH

lower than expected

Correct that. Nobody is getting kicked for doing low damage. Kicks happen when someone playing a DPS build deals less damage than the support. Simply auto-attacking would result in the DPS doing way more damage, so they must be doing something fundamentally wrong. Which is why they are kicked in the first place.

people start cursing and kick you out of the group instead of encouraging you to get better. :astonished:

The astonishing part is about how entitled some players feel these days. Entitled to the time and effort of others. By disrespecting the rest of the team you don't earn respect back. Respect the time of others and they will respect you back.

Training runs for Ascalon Catacombs?Training runs for kittening Ascalon Catacombs?!Every day we stray further from Gygax’s Light.

[Zaklex.6308]

@"gateless gate.8406" said:DPS meters should be banned, BUT Anet would also have to allow players to actually lead groups. This proto-communist grouping system whereby the creator of the group can be kicked by the people they invite is beyond weird, and one of the consequences of it is that players cannot make their own groups to solve toxicity/elitism issues.

These issues being brought up in the thread about people being toxic prior to DPS meters are valid -- but very easily solved by simply making your own group, which in most games means you can't be kicked (which therefore lets you play any build you want). That's impossible in GW2's system.

Note also that GW2's grouping system is one of the big reasons why this game has such strict meta requirements. The inability to truly lead groups means that people are socially encouraged to always play "safe" builds and to never rock the boat or speak out against absurdities. It's essentially mob rule, and mob rule has a chilling effect.

 Nobody as far as I know has gone this route yet, or offered this suggestion:  ban all third party add-ons, eliminate the kick function and vote to kick function, prevent people from leaving an instance other than shutting down the game(and then build in a 60 minute wait period before the executable will run again)...then make sure on the loading screen in BIG  BOLD LETTERS it states:  PLAYERS CAN PLAY WHAT EVER BUILD THEY WANT IN ANY TYPE OF CONTENT THIS GAME OFFERS!Extreme, maybe, but that is how this game is supposed to be played, play what ever build you want with what ever character you want in what ever content you want...if people don't like it, go play another game.

[gateless gate.8406]

@Zaklex.6308 said:Nobody as far as I know has gone this route yet, or offered this suggestion: ban all third party add-ons, eliminate the kick function and vote to kick function, prevent people from leaving an instance other than shutting down the game(and then build in a 60 minute wait period before the executable will run again)...then make sure on the loading screen in BIG BOLD LETTERS it states: PLAYERS CAN PLAY WHAT EVER BUILD THEY WANT IN ANY TYPE OF CONTENT THIS GAME OFFERS!

I'm literally just suggesting that grouping in GW2 should function like every other MMO past and present, so I'm not sure what this sarcasm bomb is supposed to be arguing.

[Shikaru.7618]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@"gateless gate.8406" said:DPS meters should be banned, BUT Anet would also have to allow players to actually lead groups. This proto-communist grouping system whereby the creator of the group can be kicked by the people they invite is beyond weird, and one of the consequences of it is that players cannot make their own groups to solve toxicity/elitism issues.

These issues being brought up in the thread about people being toxic prior to DPS meters are valid -- but very easily solved by simply making your own group, which in most games means you can't be kicked (which therefore lets you play any build you want). That's impossible in GW2's system.

Note also that GW2's grouping system is one of the big reasons why this game has such strict meta requirements. The inability to truly lead groups means that people are socially encouraged to always play "safe" builds and to never rock the boat or speak out against absurdities. It's essentially mob rule, and mob rule has a chilling effect.

 Nobody as far as I know has gone this route yet, or offered this suggestion:  ban all third party add-ons, eliminate the kick function and vote to kick function, prevent people from leaving an instance other than shutting down the game(and then build in a 60 minute wait period before the executable will run again)...then make sure on the loading screen in BIG  BOLD LETTERS it states:  PLAYERS CAN PLAY WHAT EVER BUILD THEY WANT IN ANY TYPE OF CONTENT THIS GAME OFFERS!Extreme, maybe, but that is how this game is supposed to be played, play what ever build you want with what ever character you want in what ever content you want...if people don't like it, go play another game.

Except you can already play with any build you want without all of these insane restrictions. Players with trash builds can go into fractals and raids and play with other players with equally trash builds and they can have a grand old time. Yet for some reason trash build players want to play with non trash build players. Why do they insist on doing this? Why join a group of players you know you're not going to be welcome in?

[Ashen.2907]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@"gateless gate.8406" said:DPS meters should be banned, BUT Anet would also have to allow players to actually lead groups. This proto-communist grouping system whereby the creator of the group can be kicked by the people they invite is beyond weird, and one of the consequences of it is that players cannot make their own groups to solve toxicity/elitism issues.

These issues being brought up in the thread about people being toxic prior to DPS meters are valid -- but very easily solved by simply making your own group, which in most games means you can't be kicked (which therefore lets you play any build you want). That's impossible in GW2's system.

Note also that GW2's grouping system is one of the big reasons why this game has such strict meta requirements. The inability to truly lead groups means that people are socially encouraged to always play "safe" builds and to never rock the boat or speak out against absurdities. It's essentially mob rule, and mob rule has a chilling effect.

 Nobody as far as I know has gone this route yet, or offered this suggestion:  ban all third party add-ons, eliminate the kick function and vote to kick function, prevent people from leaving an instance other than shutting down the game(and then build in a 60 minute wait period before the executable will run again)...then make sure on the loading screen in BIG  BOLD LETTERS it states:  PLAYERS CAN PLAY WHAT EVER BUILD THEY WANT IN ANY TYPE OF CONTENT THIS GAME OFFERS!Extreme, maybe, but that is how this game is supposed to be played, play what ever build you want with what ever character you want in what ever content you want...if people don't like it, go play another game.

You are mistaken about your definition of how this game is supposed to be played.

[Linken.6345]

@Dual.8953 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Applejuice.4083 said:How do you expect people to learn and stay end game, when its filled with elitism?

Was it a training run? If it wasn't then don't join a group that wants to finish the content and instead find one that offers training. The fault is on the player that joined the wrong group.

@Mea.5491 said:We had fun and that's what matters in a video game.

If you find endless wipes fun then that's good for you. On the other hand, I'm positive lots of players prefer smooth runs.

Nowadays if your gear is not perfect, if you make one little mistake in your rotation or if your damage is

MUCH MUCH

lower than expected

Correct that. Nobody is getting kicked for doing low damage. Kicks happen when someone playing a DPS build deals less damage than the support. Simply auto-attacking would result in the DPS doing way more damage, so they must be doing something fundamentally wrong. Which is why they are kicked in the first place.

people start cursing and kick you out of the group instead of encouraging you to get better. :astonished:

The astonishing part is about how entitled some players feel these days. Entitled to the time and effort of others. By disrespecting the rest of the team you don't earn respect back. Respect the time of others and they will respect you back.

Training runs for Ascalon Catacombs?Training runs for kittening Ascalon Catacombs?!Every day we stray further from Gygax’s Light.

You do know that the OP gave two senarios right?The training run was for the second example.First 1 was ac p2 kick at endSecond 1 was vale guardian kick for doing 30-40k on some skill. ( If I would guess it was a 100 blade or a built up p/p unload hit.)

[Astralporing.1957]

@Linken.6345 said:Second 1 was vale guardian kick for doing 30-40k on some skill. ( If I would guess it was a 100 blade or a built up p/p unload hit.)Or SB axe 5. On the other hand, it could also be druid staff auto channel aggregated damage. We don't know. What we do know is that it wasn't OPs DPS value.