Ban ArcDPS and any third party program

[Zaklex.6308]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@"gateless gate.8406" said:DPS meters should be banned, BUT Anet would also have to allow players to actually lead groups. This proto-communist grouping system whereby the creator of the group can be kicked by the people they invite is beyond weird, and one of the consequences of it is that players cannot make their own groups to solve toxicity/elitism issues.

These issues being brought up in the thread about people being toxic prior to DPS meters are valid -- but very easily solved by simply making your own group, which in most games means you can't be kicked (which therefore lets you play any build you want). That's impossible in GW2's system.

Note also that GW2's grouping system is one of the big reasons why this game has such strict meta requirements. The inability to truly lead groups means that people are socially encouraged to always play "safe" builds and to never rock the boat or speak out against absurdities. It's essentially mob rule, and mob rule has a chilling effect.

 Nobody as far as I know has gone this route yet, or offered this suggestion:  ban all third party add-ons, eliminate the kick function and vote to kick function, prevent people from leaving an instance other than shutting down the game(and then build in a 60 minute wait period before the executable will run again)...then make sure on the loading screen in BIG  BOLD LETTERS it states:  PLAYERS CAN PLAY WHAT EVER BUILD THEY WANT IN ANY TYPE OF CONTENT THIS GAME OFFERS!Extreme, maybe, but that is how this game is supposed to be played, play what ever build you want with what ever character you want in what ever content you want...if people don't like it, go play another game.

You are mistaken about your definition of how this game is supposed to be played.

That's not my definition, that's ArenaNet's own definition of this game...at least it was at release, and actually that's the whole mindset behind both games...play as you want.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

 Nobody as far as I know has gone this route yet, or offered this suggestion:  ban all third party add-ons, eliminate the kick function and vote to kick function, prevent people from leaving an instance other than shutting down the game(and then build in a 60 minute wait period before the executable will run again)...then make sure on the loading screen in BIG  BOLD LETTERS it states:  PLAYERS CAN PLAY WHAT EVER BUILD THEY WANT IN ANY TYPE OF CONTENT THIS GAME OFFERS!Extreme, maybe, but that is how this game is supposed to be played, play what ever build you want with what ever character you want in what ever content you want...if people don't like it, go play another game.

You are mistaken about your definition of how this game is supposed to be played.

That's not my definition, that's ArenaNet's own definition of this game...at least it was at release, and actually that's the whole mindset behind both games...play as you want.

The only mentions of "Play as you want" I've seen from ANet had to do with playing whichever profession you want, because all professions are supposed to bring something to game-play. However, it is the player-base who decides whether what a given profession brings to the table is desirable enough for inclusion. It's arguable that ANet has been effective in providing different professions with contributions, but not so effective in making all those contributions valuable "enough."

ANet could have implemented a blind grouping LFG queue, such as can be seen in many other games. They did not do so, which by default means the community can (and does) set up its own grouping protocols. It would seem that, "Play as you want" never meant, "Play with whoever you want, whenever you want, in whatever content you want." ANet has never clarified what they meant by, "Play as you want," as they did with, "We don't make grindy games!" (i.e., that there is no gear treadmill where you have to grind new gear with every endgame content update). However, if we look at what they've done rather than what they've said, it's difficult to draw the conclusion that you have.

[Ashen.2907]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@"gateless gate.8406" said:DPS meters should be banned, BUT Anet would also have to allow players to actually lead groups. This proto-communist grouping system whereby the creator of the group can be kicked by the people they invite is beyond weird, and one of the consequences of it is that players cannot make their own groups to solve toxicity/elitism issues.

These issues being brought up in the thread about people being toxic prior to DPS meters are valid -- but very easily solved by simply making your own group, which in most games means you can't be kicked (which therefore lets you play any build you want). That's impossible in GW2's system.

Note also that GW2's grouping system is one of the big reasons why this game has such strict meta requirements. The inability to truly lead groups means that people are socially encouraged to always play "safe" builds and to never rock the boat or speak out against absurdities. It's essentially mob rule, and mob rule has a chilling effect.

 Nobody as far as I know has gone this route yet, or offered this suggestion:  ban all third party add-ons, eliminate the kick function and vote to kick function, prevent people from leaving an instance other than shutting down the game(and then build in a 60 minute wait period before the executable will run again)...then make sure on the loading screen in BIG  BOLD LETTERS it states:  PLAYERS CAN PLAY WHAT EVER BUILD THEY WANT IN ANY TYPE OF CONTENT THIS GAME OFFERS!Extreme, maybe, but that is how this game is supposed to be played, play what ever build you want with what ever character you want in what ever content you want...if people don't like it, go play another game.

You are mistaken about your definition of how this game is supposed to be played.

That's not my definition, that's ArenaNet's own definition of this game...at least it was at release, and actually that's the whole mindset behind both games...play as you want.

Nope.

At no point has Anet ever said that one player has the right to command or own the actions of another.

Play the way you want does not mean what you imply. A group deciding to focus on efficiency is, by the way, playing how they want.

[Fallesafe.5932]

@"Applejuice.4083" said:Had two instances today, before anyone comments on gear, my guild and rotation comes from snowcrows to the T, including food. Went in for nostalgia on a dungeon run and got kicked towards the end of AC P2 because "Dps sucks", really? On AC P2? , 2nd instance was at VG was hitting 30-40k+ but it was "too low" and people started to get boot left and right. How do you expect people to learn and stay end game, when its filled with elitism? Ban ArcDPS please. It breeds toxic people.

We have absolutely no idea what really happened here... I would just LOVE it if the leader of this group (or one of the other members) showed up here to give their side of OP's story. I've never met a single person, living on the street, who wasn't an absolute martyr and victim (according to their own telling of the story).

[AlraiLuxx.9413]

I'd love to see the log of that VG 40k DPS.

[Knighthonor.4061]

See this is the flaw of GW2's PvE design around not having the Trinity, that means everybody is a DPS pretty much instead of playing group roles. Everybody just stack and DPS. It kills any roles in combat besides DPS and any unique contribution a player may have to the fight that isn't just a DPS move. With this breeds elitist DPSers like the OP describe. The add on is not the problem. The problem is that the dungeons don't require multiple group roles. In Rift, the dungeon group size is 5 as well, but one player is a tank, one player is a healer, and one player is a support. That leaves only 2 pure DPS. Less Elite DPSer drama back then as well. Raids was a different story, but we talking about the small scale instances right now in this discussion.

[santso.9201]

@AlraiLuxx.9413 said:I'd love to see the log of that VG 40k DPS.

I bet op means he was hitting boss with skills that did that dmg(which is different than dps) and floaters in this game tell absolutely nothing If you want to know your real dmg.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:See this is the flaw of GW2's PvE design around not having the Trinity, that means everybody is a DPS pretty much instead of playing group roles. Everybody just stack and DPS. It kills any roles in combat besides DPS and any unique contribution a player may have to the fight that isn't just a DPS move. With this breeds elitist DPSers like the OP describe. The add on is not the problem. The problem is that the dungeons don't require multiple group roles. In Rift, the dungeon group size is 5 as well, but one player is a tank, one player is a healer, and one player is a support. That leaves only 2 pure DPS. Less Elite DPSer drama back then as well. Raids was a different story, but we talking about the small scale instances right now in this discussion.

Well they left the actual teamwork for high level fractals and Raids because that's how the open world works as well. It's all about dps, so moving to an experience where something else is needed in instanced content would be confusing for players. So the entry level instanced content is like an extension of the open world, but in a smaller scale, which means it's all about dps.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

It would be nice if you couldn't get kicked toward the end of an instance.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@"gateless gate.8406" said:DPS meters should be banned, BUT Anet would also have to allow players to actually lead groups. This proto-communist grouping system whereby the creator of the group can be kicked by the people they invite is beyond weird, and one of the consequences of it is that players cannot make their own groups to solve toxicity/elitism issues.

These issues being brought up in the thread about people being toxic prior to DPS meters are valid -- but very easily solved by simply making your own group, which in most games means you can't be kicked (which therefore lets you play any build you want). That's impossible in GW2's system.

Note also that GW2's grouping system is one of the big reasons why this game has such strict meta requirements. The inability to truly lead groups means that people are socially encouraged to always play "safe" builds and to never rock the boat or speak out against absurdities. It's essentially mob rule, and mob rule has a chilling effect.

 Nobody as far as I know has gone this route yet, or offered this suggestion:  ban all third party add-ons, eliminate the kick function and vote to kick function, prevent people from leaving an instance other than shutting down the game(and then build in a 60 minute wait period before the executable will run again)...then make sure on the loading screen in BIG  BOLD LETTERS it states:  PLAYERS CAN PLAY WHAT EVER BUILD THEY WANT IN ANY TYPE OF CONTENT THIS GAME OFFERS!Extreme, maybe, but that is how this game is supposed to be played, play what ever build you want with what ever character you want in what ever content you want...if people don't like it, go play another game.

You are mistaken about your definition of how this game is supposed to be played.

That's not my definition, that's ArenaNet's own definition of this game...at least it was at release, and actually that's the whole mindset behind both games...play as you want.

Nope, that's simply you misunderstanding how and why that statement was made. Let me explain:

When GW2 was being developed and announced, just about all other MMOs in the market (and most today) had rigid grouping and a trinity system as well as gear provided by specific content. If you wanted item xyz, say a specific armor, you had to run dungeon ABC where this item dropped.

Arenanet intended (and so far have mostly succeeded) that a player be allowed to play any content yet still progress towards an arbitrary goal they might have set themselves. This is true for almost all content in GW2, since you will always accumulate wealth in some way or another.

This was never intended to allow every person to do what ever they want, yet still reap rewards for any content. That's literally impossible, especially in content which has requirements.

This also is untrue for GW1. There were metas and group compositions which required the traditional trinity setup for specific content and the content was designed that way too. You did not run through any of the endgame dungeon/areas with your willy nilly trash build. GW1 endgame areas were sometimes even harder than what we have here.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Anet did bring in support roles and healers and crap in the new content. But as it turns out, bads will be bads, and it becomes even more apparent now that it's just not about pure dps.

It's not the game, it's not some program, it's not a conspiracy. Some people just aren't very good at the game. Whether one chooses it as motivation to get better or just complain about it, well, that's a personal choice I guess.

I decided a long, long time ago, this kind of crap is not for me, and sometimes I meme about the dps meter to friends when we do fractals or something. Who really cares about it? Why not make some actual friends that don't care about srs bzness, and actually play the game?

[Dante.1763]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

I decided a long, long time ago, this kind of kitten is not for me, and sometimes I meme about the dps meter to friends when we do fractals or something. Who really cares about it? Why not make some actual friends that don't care about srs bzness, and actually play the game?

Saddly hard to do when it comes to raids. Even my actual friend that i do raid with from time to time gives me shit for being lower than 10k dps.

[Kururu.8140]

Toxic people will breed whether there's a DPS meter or not.

[Belorn.2659]

@Dante.1763 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

I decided a long, long time ago, this kind of kitten is not for me, and sometimes I meme about the dps meter to friends when we do fractals or something. Who really cares about it? Why not make some actual friends that don't care about srs bzness, and actually play the game?

Saddly hard to do when it comes to raids. Even my actual friend that i do raid with from time to time gives me kitten for being lower than 10k dps.

If the other players do 20k dps then 10k dps is half a raid player.

If all 10 players only count as half a raid player then you are practically 5 manning 10 man content. That will most time not work for pug runs, so it is understandable that your friend might complain a bit if they don't feel confident in low manning the content.

[Dante.1763]

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

I decided a long, long time ago, this kind of kitten is not for me, and sometimes I meme about the dps meter to friends when we do fractals or something. Who really cares about it? Why not make some actual friends that don't care about srs bzness, and actually play the game?

Saddly hard to do when it comes to raids. Even my actual friend that i do raid with from time to time gives me kitten for being lower than 10k dps.

If the other players do 20k dps then 10k dps is half a raid player.

If all 10 players only count as half a raid player then you are practically 5 manning 10 man content. That will most time not work for pug runs, so it is understandable that your friend might complain a bit if they don't feel confident in low manning the content.

He sends me the logs so i know thats not the case. The highest in our group is 12-14k, im usually third at either 10-11k(Condi sb, so some bosses i cant break more than that), on the ones i can i get 12k usually. The lowest ive seen in the group was 6k from a dps class. As to pugs, i stay out of pugs simply to avoid the idiotic levels of toxicity ive seen in them, and usually they dont want Condi SB's in their raids.

[Tammuz.7361]

@Emberstone.2904 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:

@"Applejuice.4083" said:ArcDPS is the problem, it is a third party program that breeds toxicity among you elitist individuals. Attacking players who do 1k damage difference from what is meta. I have seen people who use this program go as far as to issue out IRL death threats or making snarky comments like " My grandma can out dps this kid" etc, etc. I have seen people who get DC'd from a raid because of ArcDps then leech the boss at the end by coming back.

You can't seriously argue that Arc DPS is the cause of such behaviour, that's on the individuals themselves. Anti social players will remain anti social no matter what, party kicks, death threats and accusations of poor performance will not go away just because you take the proverbial sledge hammer to the nail.

You act like there aren't other ways to gauge a party member's DPS. Rather than just running Arc, these people will just have you whack on a Kitty dummy with a benchmark-set of raid buffs.

They'll still find out your DPS, one way or the other. The tool was implemented to make it so people who use it legitimately don't have to jump through hoops to do something that is easily done in other MMO's.

It is an extremely helpful tool for the raiding scene a large portion of raid bosses have enrage timers.

(Edit: Looks like this and another thread got merged. Didn't originally double post, but that's how it is now.)

he pretty much hits the nail on the head:1) players who care about the team play WILL find a way of gaguing your play quality... ARC simply means that people dont have to jump through hoops to know whos not pulling their weight.2) if you u want to complain about the over reliance on DPS, direct your hate twords the enrage timers that seem mandatory with every boss... the thought that a raid boss fight cant be challenging without an artificial DPS check inserted into it seems kinda silly.

[santso.9201]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

I decided a long, long time ago, this kind of kitten is not for me, and sometimes I meme about the dps meter to friends when we do fractals or something. Who really cares about it? Why not make some actual friends that don't care about srs bzness, and actually play the game?

Saddly hard to do when it comes to raids. Even my actual friend that i do raid with from time to time gives me kitten for being lower than 10k dps.

If the other players do 20k dps then 10k dps is half a raid player.

If all 10 players only count as half a raid player then you are practically 5 manning 10 man content. That will most time not work for pug runs, so it is understandable that your friend might complain a bit if they don't feel confident in low manning the content.

He sends me the logs so i know thats not the case. The highest in our group is 12-14k, im usually third at either 10-11k(Condi sb, so some bosses i cant break more than that), on the ones i can i get 12k usually. The lowest ive seen in the group was 6k from a dps class. As to pugs, i stay out of pugs simply to avoid the idiotic levels of toxicity ive seen in them, and usually they dont want Condi SB's in their raids.

Are you using shortbow/shortbow? If so, does The tank turn bosses away from The group? If you have Access to The logs, check boon and Buff uptimes on you and rest of The Squad. Like you should sit comfortable around 15k If you have flanking bonus, Max might+Fury and some quickness and alacrity.(and ofc banners and spirits). And ofc you could check your simple rotation to see how much it different from optimal.

[maddoctor.2738]

The "problem" discussed here is that players are being kicked for not having an "acceptable", by their team mates, performance level.

There have been suggestions thrown around about solving the kicking part, disable it completely, or ban any performance measuring tools. But all those suggestions don't address the root cause of this "problem", the fact that players aren't good at playing this game. If you disallow kicking, it would cause all kinds of different problems, just take a look at PVP where you can't kick afkers and trolls. If you disable tools, you'll be kicked for your choice of spec and build, instead of your actual skill level. These all are temporary solutions that can cause way more harm than good.

Instead, focusing on the performance aspect would offer a substantial benefit for the entire game. If players don't perform so horribly, they won't get kicked anymore, solving this problem once and for all.

[Dante.1763]

@santso.9201 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

I decided a long, long time ago, this kind of kitten is not for me, and sometimes I meme about the dps meter to friends when we do fractals or something. Who really cares about it? Why not make some actual friends that don't care about srs bzness, and actually play the game?

Saddly hard to do when it comes to raids. Even my actual friend that i do raid with from time to time gives me kitten for being lower than 10k dps.

If the other players do 20k dps then 10k dps is half a raid player.

If all 10 players only count as half a raid player then you are practically 5 manning 10 man content. That will most time not work for pug runs, so it is understandable that your friend might complain a bit if they don't feel confident in low manning the content.

He sends me the logs so i know thats not the case. The highest in our group is 12-14k, im usually third at either 10-11k(Condi sb, so some bosses i cant break more than that), on the ones i can i get 12k usually. The lowest ive seen in the group was 6k from a dps class. As to pugs, i stay out of pugs simply to avoid the idiotic levels of toxicity ive seen in them, and usually they dont want Condi SB's in their raids.

Are you using shortbow/shortbow? If so, does The tank turn bosses away from The group? If you have Access to The logs, check boon and Buff uptimes on you and rest of The Squad. Like you should sit comfortable around 15k If you have flanking bonus, Max might+Fury and some quickness and alacrity.(and ofc banners and spirits). And ofc you could check your simple rotation to see how much it different from optimal.

Running just one shortbow at the raid leaders instructions(was running two, but comm decided it wasnt worth it,), as to the tank, there are some bosses where im told to stay on stack regardless of what way the boss is facing, even if it would only be short distance to walk to get the flank bonus, yay training raids?

[rabenpriester.7129]

@Dante.1763 said:

@santso.9201 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

I decided a long, long time ago, this kind of kitten is not for me, and sometimes I meme about the dps meter to friends when we do fractals or something. Who really cares about it? Why not make some actual friends that don't care about srs bzness, and actually play the game?

Saddly hard to do when it comes to raids. Even my actual friend that i do raid with from time to time gives me kitten for being lower than 10k dps.

If the other players do 20k dps then 10k dps is half a raid player.

If all 10 players only count as half a raid player then you are practically 5 manning 10 man content. That will most time not work for pug runs, so it is understandable that your friend might complain a bit if they don't feel confident in low manning the content.

He sends me the logs so i know thats not the case. The highest in our group is 12-14k, im usually third at either 10-11k(Condi sb, so some bosses i cant break more than that), on the ones i can i get 12k usually. The lowest ive seen in the group was 6k from a dps class. As to pugs, i stay out of pugs simply to avoid the idiotic levels of toxicity ive seen in them, and usually they dont want Condi SB's in their raids.

Are you using shortbow/shortbow? If so, does The tank turn bosses away from The group? If you have Access to The logs, check boon and Buff uptimes on you and rest of The Squad. Like you should sit comfortable around 15k If you have flanking bonus, Max might+Fury and some quickness and alacrity.(and ofc banners and spirits). And ofc you could check your simple rotation to see how much it different from optimal.

Running just one shortbow at the raid leaders instructions(was running two, but comm decided it wasnt worth it,), as to the tank, there are some bosses where im told to stay on stack regardless of what way the boss is facing, even if it would only be short distance to walk to get the flank bonus, yay training raids?

Sounds to me like you need a new group.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"maddoctor.2738" said:The "problem" discussed here is that players are being kicked for not having an "acceptable", by their team mates, performance level.

There have been suggestions thrown around about solving the kicking part, disable it completely, or ban any performance measuring tools. But all those suggestions don't address the root cause of this "problem", the fact that players aren't good at playing this game. If you disallow kicking, it would cause all kinds of different problems, just take a look at PVP where you can't kick afkers and trolls. If you disable tools, you'll be kicked for your choice of spec and build, instead of your actual skill level. These all are temporary solutions that can cause way more harm than good.

Instead, focusing on the performance aspect would offer a substantial benefit for the entire game. If players don't perform so horribly, they won't get kicked anymore, solving this problem once and for all.The only way to fix this problem would be through system overhaul. It stems from two points:

1. The differences in dps between builds can be really huge.
2. The differences in dps between different skill level (utilizing proper rotations or not) on the same build can be big.

As such, the gap between the floor and ceiling is absolutely massive. In other games, there's a much greater dependency on gear level, but as such, once you do have that gear, the differences between top and bottom players are much, much smaller. Take FF XIV for example - the good players might have 2-3 times the dps of mediocre ones. In GW2 that would be 10-20 times. A whole order of magnitude greater. That is why it's far more important to filter out players for more demanding content - because that content is balanced around top performance, and while it is created with a big safe margin, that margin is still tiny when compared to differences between skill levels in the game.

No, believing that players will suddenly get better is not realistic. No game has ever succesfully managed such a conversion. At best, they could cover the problem with putting more and more emphasis on gear. And heavily reducing player freedom at choosing their builds.

[Dante.1763]

@rabenpriester.7129 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@santso.9201 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

I decided a long, long time ago, this kind of kitten is not for me, and sometimes I meme about the dps meter to friends when we do fractals or something. Who really cares about it? Why not make some actual friends that don't care about srs bzness, and actually play the game?

Saddly hard to do when it comes to raids. Even my actual friend that i do raid with from time to time gives me kitten for being lower than 10k dps.

If the other players do 20k dps then 10k dps is half a raid player.

If all 10 players only count as half a raid player then you are practically 5 manning 10 man content. That will most time not work for pug runs, so it is understandable that your friend might complain a bit if they don't feel confident in low manning the content.

He sends me the logs so i know thats not the case. The highest in our group is 12-14k, im usually third at either 10-11k(Condi sb, so some bosses i cant break more than that), on the ones i can i get 12k usually. The lowest ive seen in the group was 6k from a dps class. As to pugs, i stay out of pugs simply to avoid the idiotic levels of toxicity ive seen in them, and usually they dont want Condi SB's in their raids.

Are you using shortbow/shortbow? If so, does The tank turn bosses away from The group? If you have Access to The logs, check boon and Buff uptimes on you and rest of The Squad. Like you should sit comfortable around 15k If you have flanking bonus, Max might+Fury and some quickness and alacrity.(and ofc banners and spirits). And ofc you could check your simple rotation to see how much it different from optimal.

Running just one shortbow at the raid leaders instructions(was running two, but comm decided it wasnt worth it,), as to the tank, there are some bosses where im told to stay on stack regardless of what way the boss is facing, even if it would only be short distance to walk to get the flank bonus, yay training raids?

Sounds to me like you need a new group.

Yes. Because thats so easy to find right? Its not, it took me a year to get into the groups i have now. Theres not many groups who are willing to take people who only have one class, so no. Im stuck with the two groups i have, both of them nearly the same when it comes to what they want.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Astralporing.1957" said:No, believing that players will suddenly get better is not realistic. No game has ever succesfully managed such a conversion. At best, they could cover the problem with putting more and more emphasis on gear. And heavily reducing player freedom at choosing their builds.

Making all players suddenly better is not realistic, but there are many ways we can help in closing the gap. Most "dps kicks" don't happen because a player is simply under-performing, they happen because the player is doing massively low dps. Nobody is kicked because they do less damage than the top player. It's only when a dps player is doing less damage than support (or close) that it becomes a problem.

1. The differences in dps between builds can be really huge.

This is easy to fix. It's up to the player that wants to improve, or play with others that do, to step up their build and use a good build and not a bad build. After all, if you WANT to play with players that use the best builds, why would you expect them to take you when you use a terrible build? Player freedom can be a terrible thing, I remember that thread about a player having trouble beating the first instance of Path of Fire. When asked for details, he was using a Rifle Warrior build with signet traits, but no signets equipped.

2. The differences in dps between different skill level (utilizing proper rotations or not) on the same build can be big.

This game has a minimal interface, "Play the game, not the UI!" was a very old slogan for the game, then proceeding to compare the UI of Guild Wars 2 with the UI of other MMORPGs that is full of clutter and tons of skills visible at the same time. This works very well in most parts of the game, but it's a drawback when you want to practice your rotation. Rotations are harder in this game than in other MMORPGs because you can't see the cooldowns of all your skills but only of your active weapons/utilities. They condensed the UI using weapon swap, using transform/bundle skills that change your skillbar and so on, but now it's up to the player to remember every single cooldown while in other games, the cooldowns of all your available skills is visible on your screen at all times.

And let's not get started about trait, rune and sigil cooldowns that you have no way of seeing anywhere, plus the fact that the game is full of these hidden cooldowns. There is tons to remember to get an optimal rotation and the game doesn't offer enough information. So what they could do, is offer a way to expand the UI to show more cooldowns. The ideal would be to have "slots" above your utility bar that you can slot skills that you want to see the cooldowns of. For example, as an Engineer you could slot your most important kit skills there to track their cooldowns to know when to switch to that kit. No need to track every single skill, that would cover the entire screen.

This design overhaul could help players practicing/learning rotations get better at it.

[Dante.1763]

@"maddoctor.2738" said:

And let's not get started about trait, rune and sigil cooldowns that you have no way of seeing anywhere, plus the fact that the game is full of these hidden cooldowns. There is tons to remember to get an optimal rotation and the game doesn't offer enough information. So what they could do, is offer a way to expand the UI to show more cooldowns. The ideal would be to have "slots" above your utility bar that you can slot skills that you want to see the cooldowns of. For example, as an Engineer you could slot your most important kit skills there to track their cooldowns to know when to switch to that kit. No need to track every single skill, that would cover the entire screen.

This design overhaul could help players practicing/learning rotations get better at it.

I would love that on my Staff Ele, being able to see the cooldowns of say meteor shower at all times would be an amazing thing to have.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Dante.1763 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:

And let's not get started about trait, rune and sigil cooldowns that you have no way of seeing anywhere, plus the fact that the game is full of these hidden cooldowns. There is tons to remember to get an optimal rotation and the game doesn't offer enough information. So what they could do, is offer a way to expand the UI to show more cooldowns. The ideal would be to have "slots" above your utility bar that you can slot skills that you want to see the cooldowns of. For example, as an Engineer you could slot your most important kit skills there to track their cooldowns to know when to switch to that kit. No need to track every single skill, that would cover the entire screen.

This design overhaul could help players practicing/learning rotations get better at it.

I would love that on my Staff Ele, being able to see the cooldowns of say meteor shower at all times would be an amazing thing to have.

Yes exactly. If Guild Wars 2 ever allows UI addons, seeing cooldowns of all my abilities would be my very first pick. If it's done by Arenanet even better.