Scrapper invisibility and mounts are silly (nerfs needed ASAP)

[juno.1840]

@hunkamania.7561 said:

@"Straegen.2938" said:If the engi mauls, they pop up a reveal making the stealth gyro mostly moot. Die to this "trick" while fully healthy and a player needs to reconsider their build especially when any number of classes have enough burst to drop a player in a second.

When the whole blob pops on top of you from stealth using that and other skills good luck surviving that m8. There's no counter play and it's bad.

Except there is counter play -- it's to not sit there in a stupor assuming nothing is going on. Zergs are heavy in necros... pepper some marks around. Of course this assumes your zerg is just sitting still... which is also a bad move unless you're using siege, in which case use those marks!

If all else fails, be prepared to dodge. The slow kids will definitely go down, but it's not game over by any stretch. I've seen zergs get blind sided out of stealth and still manage to recover and win the fight.

[subversiontwo.7501]

It still looks more skillful than:

• Cast shades
• Repeat

Humour aside, wouldn't the best fix just be that mounting destealths in some way?If necessary they could even hamfist it and slap on "revealed" when mounted.

Would open up some opportunities where you have to choose between mounting in, portalling in or stealthing in.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:This never gets old for me XD

Like I said in another thread, they should add a trick/trap that dismounts a player and disables mount use for a good moment. Gives gankers a bone and encourages strategy. Not that the wankers would use it, but they'd be without excuse.

So, like the people that needed the watchtower buff for reveal?

Thing is, people STILL complain about deadeye stealth.

What creative term for Zerglings-who-can’t-run-back-to-Zerg-with-a-buddy-without-dying will you come up with?

[CETheLucid.3964]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:This never gets old for me XD

Like I said in another thread, they should add a trick/trap that dismounts a player and disables mount use for a good moment. Gives gankers a bone and encourages strategy. Not that the wankers would use it, but they'd be without excuse.

What creative term for Zerglings-who-can’t-run-back-to-Zerg-with-a-buddy-without-dying will you come up with?

I'll let you know after I come up with something for Gankers-who-cry-about-mounts-because-muh-cheese-rotation-needs-to-go-through-a-mount-now.

[Handin.4032]

First thing, I think we can all agree that before the update the Gyros were incredibly underwhelming, especially in WvW where Gyros were destroyed insanely fast. So - do they need a bit of tweaking as they are now? Yes. As per the OP's points:

1. It's not '0 effort' anymore than any other stealth mechanic. It's an elite skill. There's even still a little gyro floating around their head you can see (although not target).
2. Getting on a mount in stealth: Ok, yes - that should probably change. But I believe the mounts go into stealth with mass invis and any other AoE stealth mechanic (i.e. a thief could do the same without using an elite slot to do it with refuge). The MOUNT itself cannot stealth, but it can take advantage of ANY AoE stealth mechanic.

Yes, sneak gyro should probably be tweaked a bit. But come on, Scrappers finally get a lot of utility in their whole specialization and people's first reactions are "NERF!!! ARGHHHH I CANT ONE SHOT FROM STEALTH ANYMORE!" (Paraphrasing of course).

As pointed out, all players with mounts now have a 5000 range stealth detect. So, complaining about scrapper to pop the gyro , get out of combat (which means you basically give up hitting them? Or only using single target ganking skill?) and mount is a bit silly because the ganker can mount and use sniff.

Nerfs are not needed "ASAP". The scrapper invisibility is strong, but it's also the ELITE SKILL OF A SPECIALIZATION. There are other far more powerful and potent elite skills out there - heck Holo's is definitely more OP in a WvW setting. The AoE stealth mechanics for raids will only fool unorganized groups, since many organized groups I've seen are now running sneak gyros of their own (thus having a Pulse) or mounts (for sniff).

Most of the "omergawd nerf pls" posts seem to be about people who used to have a massive advantage in ganking roaming builds now not being able to have those easy wins. As stated above: before the patch, if as a Scrapper I was ganked by a mesmer, for instance, that mesmer could easily reset the fight and access stealth "with 0 effect" (i.e. pop skills that aren't elites and lower CD). Scrapper can now do the same using an elite and that's OP. Yes, the Gyros could probably do with some tweaking (some suggestions have been lowering stealth from 15s to 10) - but do remember that sneak gyro is a specialization's elite skill: just like many other super strong mechanics that metas hovered around for years. It's just no one ever used sneak gyro for it because the gyro could be instantly killed and targetted to follow the stealther (you can actually still do this visually).

tl;dr: Stop over reacting now that Scrappers actually have useful gyros and a viable elite skill for overall WvW use. Adapt, instead of just sitting and pouting for nerfs because you can't keep doing exactly what you have been doing. Plenty of anti-stealth mechanics out there: use them.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

@"hunkamania.7561" said:

• Stack a stupid amount of stealth with 0 effort
• hop on a mount and still be invisible(the fact that mounts can stealth, have 3 dodges and not be CC'd is laughable)
• mount leap to the enemy
• kill them with ease
• WASH RINSE REPEAT
• 0 skill required[...]

You do have to sacrifice the elite slot for that, but I would not be against more sources of revelaed. For example, "Nothing Can Save You!" should cause 8s revealed.

As for stealth while mounted, that is indeed not acceptable. Mounting should cause 10s revealed, and being mounted should make you immune to stealth. The mount may be a giant cat, but there's no way it can be as stealthy as an actual cat, magic or not.

Once mounts are immune to revealed, issues derived from stacking stealth on a pack of mounts should not happen anymore.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:This never gets old for me XD

Like I said in another thread, they should add a trick/trap that dismounts a player and disables mount use for a good moment. Gives gankers a bone and encourages strategy. Not that the wankers would use it, but they'd be without excuse.

What creative term for Zerglings-who-can’t-run-back-to-Zerg-with-a-buddy-without-dying will you come up with?

I'll let you know after I come up with something for Gankers-who-cry-about-mounts-because-muh-cheese-rotation-needs-to-go-through-a-mount-now.

Very Witty retort!

[CETheLucid.3964]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:This never gets old for me XD

Like I said in another thread, they should add a trick/trap that dismounts a player and disables mount use for a good moment. Gives gankers a bone and encourages strategy. Not that the wankers would use it, but they'd be without excuse.

What creative term for Zerglings-who-can’t-run-back-to-Zerg-with-a-buddy-without-dying will you come up with?

I'll let you know after I come up with something for Gankers-who-cry-about-mounts-because-muh-cheese-rotation-needs-to-go-through-a-mount-now.

Very Witty retort!

And an excellent Counter-Retort you managed there young man!

[displayname.8315]

Dieing to a stealth push is bush league play but it should be fixed anyways.

[XenesisII.1540]

Quite obvious people just want to exploit this now.

[Handin.4032]

@XenesisII.1540 said:Quite obvious people just want to exploit this now.

Exploit....what? Using sneak gyro and the mount is not an exploit, it's just AOE stealth that pulses. That being said, it's super easy to counter. The only people it really hurts are people used to doing the one-shot roaming builds from stealth. Scrapper literally has to use an elite slot to do this - other professions have much easier access to stealth than an elite skill. It should be tweaked though - maybe instead of 15 s of stealth it's 10-12?

[sephiroth.4217]

Id rather keep stuff like this around, it'll come in handy for organised guilds...

Theres been too much catering towards keeping the zerg safe.If you dont want to be killed by other players using tactics then I would suggest going back to PvE.

[hunkamania.7561]

@sephiroth.4217 said:Id rather keep stuff like this around, it'll come in handy for organised guilds...

Theres been too much catering towards keeping the zerg safe.If you dont want to be killed by other players using tactics then I would suggest going back to PvE.

Anything you can do a zerg 3-4 times bigger than you can do as well bud. It isn't that hard to stealth with engi's lol brain dead easy

[RisenHowl.2419]

@hunkamania.7561 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Id rather keep stuff like this around, it'll come in handy for organised guilds...

Theres been too much catering towards keeping the zerg safe.If you dont want to be killed by other players using tactics then I would suggest going back to PvE.

Anything you can do a zerg 3-4 times bigger than you can do as well bud. It isn't that hard to stealth with engi's lol brain dead easy

Show me a map queue that entirely goes stealth?

Pugs following you around makes the tactic useless

[Stand The Wall.6987]

just wondering, can you veil a mount as well?

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:just wondering, can you veil a mount as well?

Yes, it works at least when I've tried it.Also cloaking waters, smoke field blasts etc.

[Etterwyn.5263]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:This never gets old for me XD

May as well suggest we get fishing implemented in WvW. At least then I can sit and relax on a bridge catching some bass.

I really want to make this my signature. :lol:

[Shadowcat.2680]

@Handin.4032 said:

1. It's not '0 effort' anymore than any other stealth mechanic. It's an elite skill. There's even still a little gyro floating around their head you can see (although not target).Enemies don't see the gyro. It stealths itself too. And enemies don't see the smoke field. When a scrapper uses its sneak gyro, all enemies see is the animation of the scrapper's arm going up to summon the gyro.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Id rather keep stuff like this around, it'll come in handy for organised guilds...

Theres been too much catering towards keeping the zerg safe.If you dont want to be killed by other players using tactics then I would suggest going back to PvE.

Anything you can do a zerg 3-4 times bigger than you can do as well bud. It isn't that hard to stealth with engi's lol brain dead easy

Show me a map queue that entirely goes stealth?

Pugs following you around makes the tactic useless

@hunkamania.7561 knows this.

And I agree, it’s the reason it needs to stay.

A coordinated group that works together to use this deserves the advantagenit gives.

If you can coordinate a map queue to use it, then I say good for you.

[Jski.6180]

Any class who can stealth or make smoke fields (eng core) can make mounts have silly stealth. They just need to add the revile effect on the mounts full time.The scraper thing has effectually not changed its just a lot easier then it use to be.

[hunkamania.7561]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Id rather keep stuff like this around, it'll come in handy for organised guilds...

Theres been too much catering towards keeping the zerg safe.If you dont want to be killed by other players using tactics then I would suggest going back to PvE.

Anything you can do a zerg 3-4 times bigger than you can do as well bud. It isn't that hard to stealth with engi's lol brain dead easy

Show me a map queue that entirely goes stealth?

Pugs following you around makes the tactic useless

we'll do KRTA vs Ferguson crossing and we'll stealth engage with 50+ mounted up one shotting your guild group if you like. set up the date lol

[L A T I O N.8923]

@hunkamania.7561 said:

• Stack a stupid amount of stealth with 0 effort
• hop on a mount and still be invisible(the fact that mounts can stealth, have 3 dodges and not be CC'd is laughable)
• mount leap to the enemy
• kill them with ease
• WASH RINSE REPEAT
• 0 skill required

This stuff needs to be nerfed ASAP! What were the devs thinking? Are we still playing a beta and testing all this out? I guess so lol

And how you suggest this nerf?

[hunkamania.7561]

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:

• Stack a stupid amount of stealth with 0 effort
• hop on a mount and still be invisible(the fact that mounts can stealth, have 3 dodges and not be CC'd is laughable)
• mount leap to the enemy
• kill them with ease
• WASH RINSE REPEAT
• 0 skill required

This stuff needs to be nerfed ASAP! What were the devs thinking? Are we still playing a beta and testing all this out? I guess so lol

And how you suggest this nerf?

Should not be able to stealth on mounts would be the easiest way to make things right. You cannot stealth on gliders which was the case right off the bat and for good reason.

[coro.3176]

@hunkamania.7561 said:

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:

• Stack a stupid amount of stealth with 0 effort
• hop on a mount and still be invisible(the fact that mounts can stealth, have 3 dodges and not be CC'd is laughable)
• mount leap to the enemy
• kill them with ease
• WASH RINSE REPEAT
• 0 skill required

This stuff needs to be nerfed ASAP! What were the devs thinking? Are we still playing a beta and testing all this out? I guess so lol

And how you suggest this nerf?

Should not be able to stealth on mounts would be the easiest way to make things right. You cannot stealth on gliders which was the case right off the bat and for good reason.

This is probably the best option. If you removed Scrapper stealth entirely, you could still do the same thing (albiet requiring way more coordination) with other stealth skills, or smoke fields and blasts.

Mounting up should apply revealed - easy fix.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@hunkamania.7561 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Id rather keep stuff like this around, it'll come in handy for organised guilds...

Theres been too much catering towards keeping the zerg safe.If you dont want to be killed by other players using tactics then I would suggest going back to PvE.

Anything you can do a zerg 3-4 times bigger than you can do as well bud. It isn't that hard to stealth with engi's lol brain dead easy

Show me a map queue that entirely goes stealth?

Pugs following you around makes the tactic useless

we'll do KRTA vs Ferguson crossing and we'll stealth engage with 50+ mounted up one shotting your guild group if you like. set up the date lol

Be sure to post twitch link plz. :popcorn: