Why is every class a Mesmer?

[Quadox.7834]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"Khalisto.5780" said:i dont see any other class spamming illusilons all around, be happy

Ironically some (most?) mesmers want illusions gone and an illusionless spec.I know most anti-mesmer crowd (not saying you belong here) say stuff as "A.I. carried", the truth is illusions just cripple mesmer, they're dumb as heck and because of them mesmer sustain damage is pitiful.

Exactly, it's fucking annoying to play with a mechanic that 1) relies on inconsistent ai 2) gets cleaved down randomly 3) necessitates balancing around, leaving weapons skills etc worse than they could be.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"Khalisto.5780" said:i dont see any other class spamming illusilons all around, be happy

Ironically some (most?) mesmers want illusions gone and an illusionless spec.I know most anti-mesmer crowd (not saying you belong here) say stuff as "A.I. carried", the truth is illusions just cripple mesmer, they're dumb as heck and because of them mesmer sustain damage is pitiful.

Exactly, it's kitten annoying to play with a mechanic that 1) relies on inconsistent ai 2) gets cleaved down randomly 3) necessitates balancing around, leaving weapons skills etc worse than they could be.

Yeah sounds exactly like shroud and stealth, definitely not a problem unique to mesmer.

[Quadox.7834]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"Khalisto.5780" said:i dont see any other class spamming illusilons all around, be happy

Ironically some (most?) mesmers want illusions gone and an illusionless spec.I know most anti-mesmer crowd (not saying you belong here) say stuff as "A.I. carried", the truth is illusions just cripple mesmer, they're dumb as heck and because of them mesmer sustain damage is pitiful.

Exactly, it's kitten annoying to play with a mechanic that 1) relies on inconsistent ai 2) gets cleaved down randomly 3) necessitates balancing around, leaving weapons skills etc worse than they could be.

Yeah sounds exactly like shroud and stealth, definitely not a problem unique to mesmer.

What do you mean?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Necro has no blocks invulnerability skills etc cuz shroud is soposed to be a second health bar yet it’s far from it, stealth on thief is always hated on due to crazy MBS burst and rifle burst DE had when it could perma stealth causing arenanet to nerf thief in the only way arenanet knows how which was ways that also hit core and DD builds that didn’t use stealth,same as mesmer being balanced around its mechanics often times causing nerfs to mesmers leaving mesmer players confused as to why it was touched and the things mesmer mains knew were op and stated needed toned down wernt even touched. There are a few classes that have specs over nerfed or left under powered due to arenanet not having a clue how to balance the class as a whole around the mechanics that are causing the problems

[storm.3120]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Necro has no blocks invulnerability skills etc cuz shroud is soposed to be a second health bar yet it’s far from it, stealth on thief is always hated on due to crazy MBS burst and rifle burst DE had when it could perma stealth causing arenanet to nerf thief in the only way arenanet knows how which was ways that also hit core and DD builds that didn’t use stealth,same as mesmer being balanced around its mechanics often times causing nerfs to mesmers leaving mesmer players confused as to why it was touched and the things mesmer mains knew were op and stated needed toned down wernt even touched.

You are disconnected with this world....What necro shroud/thief stealth (DE ,the only nerf DE had last patch was stealth time reduction on dodge,instead of complete removal ,sadly) has to do with a mesmer class mechanic ?Since Anet is also disconnected from their own games, isntead of listen people who actually played the class for a long time they prefer to take every suggestion how to nerf mesmer that have nothing to do with a real problem and implement it next patch ,but what a surprise,that never worked until they just decided to nerf a lot of stuff including core with a hope this will end it (and all complaints).Everyone hate scepter and perma reflect ,was it nerfed last patch? No. I hope its get nerfed and we can enjoy completely mesmerless meta

[phs.6089]

You need a Reaper in you gameplay

[Math.5123]

@Falan.1839 said:You and Flänby/incissor would make a great couple.

Looks like we do share some opinions after all, you might be quite alright buddy.

[Falan.1839]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Falan.1839 said:You and Flänby/incissor would make a great couple.

Looks like we do share some opinions after all, you might be quite alright buddy.

If you keep it easy with the CJing I might remove you from block at some point.

[Math.5123]

@Falan.1839 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Falan.1839 said:You and Flänby/incissor would make a great couple.

Looks like we do share some opinions after all, you might be quite alright buddy.

If you keep it easy with the CJing I might remove you from block at some point.

I'll try

[Xstein.2187]

1. OP wants to play core and the fact is that it is not competitive and has been nerfed over time since the releases of HoT and PoF.Why Anet has nerfed core is beyond me. However, it most likely has to deal with the fact that they could give a rats ass about how competitive core is. This is fine by me, but then don't be surprised when some people don't give a rat's ass about gw2.

2. Mesmer did have unique mechanics that were given to other classes or diminished over time. I can understand the need for balance. However, the game also needs to install differentials between one class and another. Some people put a lot of play time specifically into mesmer (PvP, PvE, + WvW) because of the unique class characteristics it provided. It is kinda like investing in a product and then the product not turning out to be what was originally advertised. Balance excluded, this is a crapy thing to do.

3. If a certain mesmer build is OP, it has nothing to do with this discussion. Ya, there are certain people like incisor who will defend OPness. However, people on the forums need to quit using that as a straw man fallacy. Not everyone who says something bad about mesmer is incisor or like incisor and not every discussion revolves around weather or not class X has an OP build. Yes, most discussions deal with the top meta build, but not every discussion has to do that.

4. In Contrast to what OP said, Chrono has a high burst. However, high burst does not necessarily mean it is OP. I am not sure on the statistics currently on the burst of core mesmer vs guardian. However, I do know that guardian has tremendously more sustain. However, frankly I don't care. Core guard may be better than other core classes in PvP, but most core classes don't have builds that are remotely competitive. This is insane. Mesmer has taken so many dynamic turning points in all 3 game modes over the last year that it has totally eviscerated any of the reasons why I started playing this game 5 years ago to the point where I just don't care anymore.

[Snellibee.2761]

Imo Mesmer shouldn't even have acces to stealth. It really doesn't make sense within the theme. The only class that should have acces to stealth is thief because it's right up the alley of an infiltrator

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Snellibee.2761 said:Imo Mesmer shouldn't even have acces to stealth. It really doesn't make sense within the theme. The only class that should have acces to stealth is thief because it's right up the alley of an infiltrator

No one should have access to stealth, stealth is a mechanic that kittens pvp on every game it is put on, gw2 just made it way worse than everybody else.And the same can be said regarding shadowsteps/teleports.And I say this as a mesmer main.

[Zexanima.7851]

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:At this point the majority of classes can stealth, often better than Mesmer. The majority have very high mobility. Even the "slow" Guardian moves faster than a Mesmer. The Guardian brings stealth and heavy burst to the table too.

Pretty sure thief should own this mechanic, mesmer has more than enough stealth.

Just about every class bursts harder than Mesmer.

Mesmer has great burst.

Every signature move of Mesmer has been either copied to other classes: Moa and Alacrity or nerfed to the point of uselessness Moa again and Portal.

No other profession has a portal as useful as Mesmers, they still own the portal market.

I honestly think that ANET has mixed the classes and diluted them to the point of near meaninglessness.

I honestly think they have not.

I'm frustrated that I have to accept bringing a pocketknife to a gunfight if I want to play Mesmer.

I really think this all is just a l2p issue I'm sorry to say. Mesmer is fine. It has its strengths and weaknesses like very other profession.

[Ithilwen.1529]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:At this point the majority of classes can stealth, often better than Mesmer. The majority have very high mobility. Even the "slow" Guardian moves faster than a Mesmer. The Guardian brings stealth and heavy burst to the table too.

Pretty sure thief should own this mechanic, mesmer has more than enough stealth.

Mesmer stealth has been nerfed by over 50%. It is among the least stealthy classes. Even a trapper DH can stealth more frequently.

Just about every class bursts harder than Mesmer.

Mesmer has great burst.

Mirage has a mediocre burst. Mesmer has practically none.

Every signature move of Mesmer has been either copied to other classes: Moa and Alacrity or nerfed to the point of uselessness Moa again and Portal.

No other profession has a portal as useful as Mesmers, they still own the portal market.

Portal has been nerfed to the point of useless in PvP as has Moa. Moa was once the signature move of the Mesmer... now Engineer does it significantly better.

I honestly think that ANET has mixed the classes and diluted them to the point of near meaninglessness.

I honestly think they have not.

I'm frustrated that I have to accept bringing a pocketknife to a gunfight if I want to play Mesmer.

I really think this all is just a l2p issue I'm sorry to say. Mesmer is fine. It has its strengths and weaknesses like very other profession.

I really think you don't play a core Mesmer and are unfamiliar with the class. I challenge you to play my build and see if it's an "l2p" issue. In fact... I'll give you gold if you can prove you can play it competitively.

It takes me a long time to learn a build. It makes no sense for me to jump on the flavor of the month specialization... knowing ANET will nerf it before I can master it.

[Mbelch.9028]

@Snellibee.2761 said:Imo Mesmer shouldn't even have acces to stealth. It really doesn't make sense within the theme. The only class that should have acces to stealth is thief because it's right up the alley of an infiltrator

I might agree, but I think engineer should be able to manufacture stealth through fields, given that class theme. This is all abstract of course lol.

[otto.5684]

@Snellibee.2761 said:Imo Mesmer shouldn't even have acces to stealth. It really doesn't make sense within the theme. The only class that should have acces to stealth is thief because it's right up the alley of an infiltrator

Ranger and engi also have stealth. That is 4 out of 9 classes. It surely is not a thief exclusive thing.

[saerni.2584]

It isn’t exclusive to thief but the thief has special attack mechanics based around being in stealth. So it’s strange to hear a mesmer claim stealth as its mechanic.

But more on topic: if you want to be taken seriously you have to be willing to accept that mesmer, despite nerfs, has been consistently in meta as Chrono or Mirage. Claiming you won’t be able to learn a new build before Anet makes it useless ignores that Anet has not made the popular mesmer build options useless over the course of several years. You can’t honestly claim that multiple years of clear viability is too short for you to learn and play an effective mesmer build.

Mesmer is pretty effective and unique.

[Zexanima.7851]

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:At this point the majority of classes can stealth, often better than Mesmer. The majority have very high mobility. Even the "slow" Guardian moves faster than a Mesmer. The Guardian brings stealth and heavy burst to the table too.

Pretty sure thief should own this mechanic, mesmer has more than enough stealth.

Mesmer stealth has been nerfed by over 50%. It is among the least stealthy classes. Even a trapper DH can stealth more frequently.

This seems like a problem with DH and trapper runes not mesmer, and if anything there needs to be less stealth in the game over all.

Just about every class bursts harder than Mesmer.

Mesmer has great burst.

Mirage has a mediocre burst. Mesmer has practically none.

I've been oneshot by a power chrono out of stealth more than a handful of times.

Every signature move of Mesmer has been either copied to other classes: Moa and Alacrity or nerfed to the point of uselessness Moa again and Portal.

No other profession has a portal as useful as Mesmers, they still own the portal market.

Portal has been nerfed to the point of useless in PvP as has Moa. Moa was once the signature move of the Mesmer... now Engineer does it significantly better.

I honestly think that ANET has mixed the classes and diluted them to the point of near meaninglessness.

I honestly think they have not.

I'm frustrated that I have to accept bringing a pocketknife to a gunfight if I want to play Mesmer.

You're frustrated, I get it. I feel the same way about staff daredevil. A pocketknife is a pocketknife though so I play something else if I want to win reliably. You can't reasonably expect every spec of every profession to be equal, that kind of balance in this kind of game is not as easy as everyone on the forums seems to think it is.

I really think this all is just a l2p issue I'm sorry to say. Mesmer is fine. It has its strengths and weaknesses like very other profession.

I really think you don't play a core Mesmer and are unfamiliar with the class. I challenge you to play my build and see if it's an "l2p" issue.

In fact... I'll give you gold if you can prove you can play it competitively.

It takes me a long time to learn a build. It makes no sense for me to jump on the flavor of the month specialization... knowing ANET will nerf it before I can master it.

You're saying it's not a l2p issue but you're also saying it takes you a long time to l2p? That's fine, everyone moves at their own pace. Just because you don't want to learn another build though doesn't mean your profession doesn't have good ones. Mesmer is the only profession that can produce multiple clones of it's self and has great utility through them. The only reason you really need stealth is to break target anyways.

TL;DRIf you're not successful on core mesmer, play another specialization if you have the expansions. Both chrono and mirage are solid. If you don't own the expansions and absolutely can't succeed with core mesmer play another profession. It's not reasonable to pick a square block when the meta is a round hole then be upset that your block wont fit.

[Ithilwen.1529]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:At this point the majority of classes can stealth, often better than Mesmer. The majority have very high mobility. Even the "slow" Guardian moves faster than a Mesmer. The Guardian brings stealth and heavy burst to the table too.

Pretty sure thief should own this mechanic, mesmer has more than enough stealth.

Mesmer stealth has been nerfed by over 50%. It is among the least stealthy classes. Even a trapper DH can stealth more frequently.

This seems like a problem with DH and trapper runes not mesmer, and if anything there needs to be less stealth in the game over all.

Just about every class bursts harder than Mesmer.

Mesmer has great burst.

Mirage has a mediocre burst. Mesmer has practically none.

I've been oneshot by a power chrono out of stealth more than a handful of times.

Every signature move of Mesmer has been either copied to other classes: Moa and Alacrity or nerfed to the point of uselessness Moa again and Portal.

No other profession has a portal as useful as Mesmers, they still own the portal market.

Portal has been nerfed to the point of useless in PvP as has Moa. Moa was once the signature move of the Mesmer... now Engineer does it significantly better.

I honestly think that ANET has mixed the classes and diluted them to the point of near meaninglessness.

I honestly think they have not.

I'm frustrated that I have to accept bringing a pocketknife to a gunfight if I want to play Mesmer.

You're frustrated, I get it. I feel the same way about staff daredevil. A pocketknife is a pocketknife though so I play something else if I want to win reliably. You can't reasonably expect every spec of every profession to be equal, that kind of balance in this kind of game is not as easy as everyone on the forums seems to think it is.

I really think this all is just a l2p issue I'm sorry to say. Mesmer is fine. It has its strengths and weaknesses like very other profession.

I really think you don't play a core Mesmer and are unfamiliar with the class. I challenge you to play my build and see if it's an "l2p" issue.

In fact... I'll give you gold if you can prove you can play it competitively.

It takes me a long time to learn a build. It makes no sense for me to jump on the flavor of the month specialization... knowing ANET will nerf it before I can master it.

You're saying it's not a l2p issue but you're also saying it takes you a long time to l2p? That's fine, everyone moves at their own pace. Just because you don't want to learn another build though doesn't mean your profession doesn't have good ones. Mesmer is the only profession that can produce multiple clones of it's self and has great utility through them. The only reason you really need stealth is to break target anyways.

TL;DRIf you're not successful on core mesmer, play another specialization if you have the expansions. Both chrono and mirage are solid. If you don't own the expansions and absolutely can't succeed with core mesmer play another profession. It's not reasonable to pick a square block when the meta is a round hole then be upset that your block wont fit.

My thread has two basic points:

Mesmer skills have been over distributed to other classes. Even guardian has better mobility than Mesmer in many instances. Engineer does a far better Moa. Ranger, Guardian and thief all easily outstealth Mesmer. Even Alacrity, the basis of Chronomancer, is done better by another class.

It comes down to this; I believe that ANET will slap down Mirage / Chronomancer and we'll see another 3 year drought like the one after the glamour nerf.. So I find it hard to invest in.

[phokus.8934]

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:At this point the majority of classes can stealth, often better than Mesmer. The majority have very high mobility. Even the "slow" Guardian moves faster than a Mesmer. The Guardian brings stealth and heavy burst to the table too.

Pretty sure thief should own this mechanic, mesmer has more than enough stealth.

Mesmer stealth has been nerfed by over 50%. It is among the least stealthy classes. Even a trapper DH can stealth more frequently.

This seems like a problem with DH and trapper runes not mesmer, and if anything there needs to be less stealth in the game over all.

Just about every class bursts harder than Mesmer.

Mesmer has great burst.

Mirage has a mediocre burst. Mesmer has practically none.

I've been oneshot by a power chrono out of stealth more than a handful of times.

Every signature move of Mesmer has been either copied to other classes: Moa and Alacrity or nerfed to the point of uselessness Moa again and Portal.

No other profession has a portal as useful as Mesmers, they still own the portal market.

Portal has been nerfed to the point of useless in PvP as has Moa. Moa was once the signature move of the Mesmer... now Engineer does it significantly better.

I honestly think that ANET has mixed the classes and diluted them to the point of near meaninglessness.

I honestly think they have not.

I'm frustrated that I have to accept bringing a pocketknife to a gunfight if I want to play Mesmer.

You're frustrated, I get it. I feel the same way about staff daredevil. A pocketknife is a pocketknife though so I play something else if I want to win reliably. You can't reasonably expect every spec of every profession to be equal, that kind of balance in this kind of game is not as easy as everyone on the forums seems to think it is.

I really think this all is just a l2p issue I'm sorry to say. Mesmer is fine. It has its strengths and weaknesses like very other profession.

I really think you don't play a core Mesmer and are unfamiliar with the class. I challenge you to play my build and see if it's an "l2p" issue.

In fact... I'll give you gold if you can prove you can play it competitively.

It takes me a long time to learn a build. It makes no sense for me to jump on the flavor of the month specialization... knowing ANET will nerf it before I can master it.

You're saying it's not a l2p issue but you're also saying it takes you a long time to l2p? That's fine, everyone moves at their own pace. Just because you don't want to learn another build though doesn't mean your profession doesn't have good ones. Mesmer is the only profession that can produce multiple clones of it's self and has great utility through them. The only reason you really need stealth is to break target anyways.

TL;DRIf you're not successful on core mesmer, play another specialization if you have the expansions. Both chrono and mirage are solid. If you don't own the expansions and absolutely can't succeed with core mesmer play another profession. It's not reasonable to pick a square block when the meta is a round hole then be upset that your block wont fit.

My thread has two basic points:

Mesmer skills have been over distributed to other classes. Even guardian has better mobility than Mesmer in many instances. Engineer does a far better Moa. Ranger, Guardian and thief all easily outstealth Mesmer.

Even Alacrity, the basis of Chronomancer, is done better by another class.

It comes down to this; I believe that ANET will slap down Mirage / Chronomancer and we'll see another 3 year drought like the one after the glamour nerf..

So I find it hard to invest in.

You're just complaining to complain. Any legitimate person who plays GW2 pvp knows how strong and effective Chrono and Mirage is. But honestly, you're not going to change your disposition on this class or the game in general so I don't know why you make such threads.

[Snellibee.2761]

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:Imo Mesmer shouldn't even have acces to stealth. It really doesn't make sense within the theme. The only class that should have acces to stealth is thief because it's right up the alley of an infiltrator

I might agree, but I think engineer should be able to manufacture stealth through fields, given that class theme. This is all abstract of course lol.

Engineer should definitely not have stealth. This class is already stacked with everything in the game, having it able to go stealth is just retarded

@otto.5684 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:Imo Mesmer shouldn't even have acces to stealth. It really doesn't make sense within the theme. The only class that should have acces to stealth is thief because it's right up the alley of an infiltrator

Ranger and engi also have stealth. That is 4 out of 9 classes. It surely is not a thief exclusive thing.

It isn't but it should. Stealth is definitely a mechanic that in many games is also not given to any profession but merely limited to one profession wich relies on ambushing because of low defensive capabilities. Thief perfectly fits this profile. Ranger, engineer and mesmer are not ambush based professions and therefor have no need for stealth

[Vagrant.7206]

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:At this point the majority of classes can stealth, often better than Mesmer. The majority have very high mobility. Even the "slow" Guardian moves faster than a Mesmer. The Guardian brings stealth and heavy burst to the table too.

Mesmer has great burst.

Mirage has a mediocre burst. Mesmer has practically none.

I watched a chrono 100-5 me yesterday on my prot holo build, with a paladin amulet. Like hell they have no burst.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:At this point the majority of classes can stealth, often better than Mesmer. The majority have very high mobility. Even the "slow" Guardian moves faster than a Mesmer. The Guardian brings stealth and heavy burst to the table too.

Pretty sure thief should own this mechanic, mesmer has more than enough stealth.

Mesmer stealth has been nerfed by over 50%. It is among the least stealthy classes. Even a trapper DH can stealth more frequently.

This seems like a problem with DH and trapper runes not mesmer, and if anything there needs to be less stealth in the game over all.

Just about every class bursts harder than Mesmer.

Mesmer has great burst.

Mirage has a mediocre burst. Mesmer has practically none.

I've been oneshot by a power chrono out of stealth more than a handful of times.

Every signature move of Mesmer has been either copied to other classes: Moa and Alacrity or nerfed to the point of uselessness Moa again and Portal.

No other profession has a portal as useful as Mesmers, they still own the portal market.

Portal has been nerfed to the point of useless in PvP as has Moa. Moa was once the signature move of the Mesmer... now Engineer does it significantly better.

I honestly think that ANET has mixed the classes and diluted them to the point of near meaninglessness.

I honestly think they have not.

I'm frustrated that I have to accept bringing a pocketknife to a gunfight if I want to play Mesmer.

You're frustrated, I get it. I feel the same way about staff daredevil. A pocketknife is a pocketknife though so I play something else if I want to win reliably. You can't reasonably expect every spec of every profession to be equal, that kind of balance in this kind of game is not as easy as everyone on the forums seems to think it is.

I really think this all is just a l2p issue I'm sorry to say. Mesmer is fine. It has its strengths and weaknesses like very other profession.

I really think you don't play a core Mesmer and are unfamiliar with the class. I challenge you to play my build and see if it's an "l2p" issue.

In fact... I'll give you gold if you can prove you can play it competitively.

It takes me a long time to learn a build. It makes no sense for me to jump on the flavor of the month specialization... knowing ANET will nerf it before I can master it.

You're saying it's not a l2p issue but you're also saying it takes you a long time to l2p? That's fine, everyone moves at their own pace. Just because you don't want to learn another build though doesn't mean your profession doesn't have good ones. Mesmer is the only profession that can produce multiple clones of it's self and has great utility through them. The only reason you really need stealth is to break target anyways.

TL;DRIf you're not successful on core mesmer, play another specialization if you have the expansions. Both chrono and mirage are solid. If you don't own the expansions and absolutely can't succeed with core mesmer play another profession. It's not reasonable to pick a square block when the meta is a round hole then be upset that your block wont fit.

My thread has two basic points:

Mesmer skills have been over distributed to other classes. Even guardian has better mobility than Mesmer in many instances. Engineer does a far better Moa. Ranger, Guardian and thief all easily outstealth Mesmer.

Even Alacrity, the basis of Chronomancer, is done better by another class.

It comes down to this; I believe that ANET will slap down Mirage / Chronomancer and we'll see another 3 year drought like the one after the glamour nerf..

So I find it hard to invest in.

Your complaints could just as easily be made with any other class. "Every class is a warrior" because they all hit like trucks in melee range. "Every class is a guardian" because they can deal ridiculous burning/condi damage. Etc, etc.

Elite specs have diluted the uniqueness of the professions. Some people are ok with that, some are not. But this is not a "problem" unique to mesmer.

@Snellibee.2761 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:Imo Mesmer shouldn't even have acces to stealth. It really doesn't make sense within the theme. The only class that should have acces to stealth is thief because it's right up the alley of an infiltrator

I might agree, but I think engineer should be able to manufacture stealth through fields, given that class theme. This is all abstract of course lol.

Engineer should definitely not have stealth. This class is already stacked with everything in the game, having it able to go stealth is just kitten

@otto.5684 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:Imo Mesmer shouldn't even have acces to stealth. It really doesn't make sense within the theme. The only class that should have acces to stealth is thief because it's right up the alley of an infiltrator

Ranger and engi also have stealth. That is 4 out of 9 classes. It surely is not a thief exclusive thing.

It isn't but it should. Stealth is definitely a mechanic that in many games is also not given to any profession but merely limited to one profession wich relies on ambushing because of low defensive capabilities. Thief perfectly fits this profile. Ranger, engineer and mesmer are not ambush based professions and therefor have no need for stealth

In most cases, engineer stealth is not being used for ambushes. That's not to say it can't be used for ambushes - it certainly can be. But it's generally used for getting out of fights, since engineer mobility is worse than any other adventurer profession. This is why stealth is tied to Elixir S -- a temporary invuln and stealth? It's clearly a defensive utility. Sneak gyro and its toolbelt (AoE Reveal) feature no offensive capabilities beyond simply being stealthed.

All other engineer stealth comes from combo'ing with smoke fields, which any class can do if they can reliably place a smoke field. Ranger only has one skill that can stealth them on longbow. All other ranger stealth comes from combo'ing.

You can even check me on this -- there are only two skills engineer has that provide stealth, both on rather lengthy cooldowns. The only trait that is relevant to stealth is autodefense bomb dispenser, which drops a smoke bomb that can be combo'd.

[Quadox.7834]

@Vagrant.7206 said:text

The fact that it comes from smoke field makes no difference really. If the class has smoke field, it has stealth.

[Quadox.7834]

@Snellibee.2761 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:Imo Mesmer shouldn't even have acces to stealth. It really doesn't make sense within the theme. The only class that should have acces to stealth is thief because it's right up the alley of an infiltrator

I might agree, but I think engineer should be able to manufacture stealth through fields, given that class theme. This is all abstract of course lol.

Engineer should definitely not have stealth. This class is already stacked with everything in the game, having it able to go stealth is just kitten

@otto.5684 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:Imo Mesmer shouldn't even have acces to stealth. It really doesn't make sense within the theme. The only class that should have acces to stealth is thief because it's right up the alley of an infiltrator

Ranger and engi also have stealth. That is 4 out of 9 classes. It surely is not a thief exclusive thing.

It isn't but it should. Stealth is definitely a mechanic that in many games is also not given to any profession but merely limited to one profession wich relies on ambushing because of low defensive capabilities. Thief perfectly fits this profile. Ranger, engineer and mesmer are not ambush based professions and therefor have no need for stealth

@Snellibee.2761 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:Imo Mesmer shouldn't even have acces to stealth. It really doesn't make sense within the theme. The only class that should have acces to stealth is thief because it's right up the alley of an infiltrator

I might agree, but I think engineer should be able to manufacture stealth through fields, given that class theme. This is all abstract of course lol.

Engineer should definitely not have stealth. This class is already stacked with everything in the game, having it able to go stealth is just kittenIt certainly has too much, but there is a reason why it has stealth which is because it is focused on diverse utility and on being a jack of all trades.

@otto.5684 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:Imo Mesmer shouldn't even have acces to stealth. It really doesn't make sense within the theme. The only class that should have acces to stealth is thief because it's right up the alley of an infiltrator

Ranger and engi also have stealth. That is 4 out of 9 classes. It surely is not a thief exclusive thing.

It isn't but it should. Stealth is definitely a mechanic that in many games is also not given to any profession but merely limited to one profession wich relies on ambushing because of low defensive capabilities. Thief perfectly fits this profile. Ranger, engineer and mesmer are not ambush based professions and therefor have no need for stealthBiggest problem is really how OP stealth is in gw2 in the first place.

I don't think you.can just call a profession "ambush-based" for example. This is not a moba, the point of gw2 is that you can play the professions in different ways. There is a big difference between power shatter mesmer and chrono bunker, between fa ele and sword weaver, and so on. Now the fact that thief has only ever been PvP meta with gank builds is unfortunate, but it is a separate point. I also find the irony a bit funny how mesmer is not an "ambush based profession" but it has ambush skills.

[Westenev.5289]

I guess this is what happens when the game is balanced for high tier players (and for one optimal build). Low teir players will think their class sucks, while high teir players will continue killing everyone and everything between point a and point b.