Who would like to see the playable races of Tyria return to the pre-Elder Dragons status quo?

[Kovac.4372]

Before the Elder Dragons woke and disturbed the geopolitics of Tyria, the asura were supremacist, the norn solitary hunters in the far north, and the charr and humans stuck in an eternal blood feud. The GW2 story reduced each of the race's uniqueness and cultural characteristics for the purpose of everyone banding together ... but now that the Elder Dragons appear to no longer be a threat, would you like the races to go back to what they originally were?

[lezbefriends.7516]

War is ETERNAL... We can never go back.

[Danikat.8537]

I don't think it would make sense for everything to just revert to the way things were, that's not how societies work. It also wouldn't make sense for the charr and humans to be at war, unless all player characters were somehow excluded.

I just want them to do whatever they think will make the most interesting and fun storylines, bearing in mind game mechanics as well as plot.

[Ayakaru.6583]

I mean, the inquest still have a higher hierarchy of which we've only seen the pyramids' foot.The nightmare court is still out there.While the Ebonhawke Treaty is pretty solid there are still some anti charr/human relations.I'd also love to see a new threat. Cantha could make a good villain as an imperial state set on conquest.

The sons of svanir could make a great comeback, too, but that's half ED plot.

Better yet, a plot where we learn that the quaggan are DM, and we go and exterminate them all before they turn <3

[Poormany.4507]

I don't want them to each go back to being on their own storywise, but would like to get more race-specific dialogue/interactions, which seem to have gotten less frequent lately in the game.

[Westenev.5289]

I can't really see how different things would be.

Sylvari already were on peaceful terms with basically everyone by the time of Personal Story. Even though the firstborn had only lived 25 years, people seem to have accepted them as commonplace rank and file citizens without any real discrimination.

The Asura seem to have always been on amacable terms with Humans, often involving themselves in their plots in order to further field test technology. Their dream of ruling the world was a pipe dream, due to their inability to successfully colonise anywhere that wasn't called "Rata Sum".

The humans of Kryta were already in the process of securing peace talks with the charr of the black citidel. Humans are seen working in the Black Citidel, and Charr are allowed to camp on Ebonhawke's footstep.

The Norn never really sought conflicts with anyone beyond personal grudges or Elder Dragons, and only really sought to futher their legends or crafts. Not much has changed for them.

In a way, you could say Zhaitan attacked exactly when the world was ready to unite.

[Beelphagor.3420]

I liked how every race had their own internal struggles with enemy factions but I would prefer to see multi-racial enemy factions in the future, ala Scarlet Minions or Balthazar bandits

[Kovac.4372]

@Danikat.8537 said:I don't think it would make sense for everything to just revert to the way things were, that's not how societies work. It also wouldn't make sense for the charr and humans to be at war, unless all player characters were somehow excluded.

I think that's exactly how societies work ... under one set of circumstances a society acts in one way, when the circumstances change, so does the society.

I agree that it would probably be impossible for the entire NPC faction to change attitude, because where would that leave the player then, as well as all the NPCs and their dialogues in existing maps.

However, there could be behind the scenes internal struggles between the existing power structures and brand new factions that want change.

This is how it might look like:

• the norn would simply stop appearing or appear at a greatly reduced rate in any new maps south of the Far Shiverpeaks
• with the asura we could have Inquest incursion dynamic events across Tyria, as a way to demonstrate their increased supremacist agenda
• we could have similar charr incursions, as well as a new supremacist rebel faction establishing a foothold in the Blood Legion homelands, directly challenging the Black Citadel
• the humans would be mostly defensive and pacifist, but the Ascalonians in Ebonhawke would likely want to use any opportunity to also weaken the Black Citadel and pit anyone against the charr state ... so plenty of cloak and dagger story opportunities here
• the sylvari would like team up with the Krytans, nothing interesting going on here since they're new to Tyria, nothing to go back to

[Zephire.8049]

Assuming there's any noticeable breather between now and the next elder dragon/big bad, I see races fortifying their defenses and training under the assumption that the other dragons will show up at some point. They will have more time to focus on themselves, but I don't think any of them are so short-sighted that they're going to pretend everything is going to be 100% okay from now on and there's not going to be any rogue dragons/gods/lichs who seek to destroy or take over Tyria.

Also, the races are very much entwined now. Everyone uses asura and charr tech. Norn travel around to sell their services as hired muscle to make a bunch of money and add to their legend. Sylvari were exposed to different races and different ways of thinking. Humans... well humans are humans but they were reconnected with Elona and now have to deal with one of their gods going rogue.

There's also far more political pressure now to get along. Before, the races largely kept to themselves so they were largely free to be in conflict with other races. Now? If asura go back to experimenting on sylvari the other three races will be WTF but have to be careful because if they alienate the asura that means losing access to the asura gates. If humans and charr go to war again (despite the saga of the Claw of the Khan-Ur being used to force peace by leadership and exhausted factions on both sides before the elder dragons posed a threat to the mainland), the asura, sylvari, and norn will have to pick a side because everyone -- including humans -- uses charr tech in full or as a base for something now. And that includes airships, helicopters, submarines, and ships. Charr end up locked in a petty war with humans, they can't supply the rest of Tyria with things.

Bonds have been forged, technology and culture shared, and they've banded together to save everyone. They aren't going to revert back any time soon.

There will always be xenophobic factions, but it would take something massively egregious to shatter the alliance of any of the races any time soon.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

The OP hasn't offered a compelling reason to decide. I am not interested in seeing player preferences imposed on the game for the sake of fan service. What I want to see are interesting stories, which usually require conflicts tricky to resolve without compromising something important to the parties involved. Plus, the races aren't monolithic. Not all Charr want to be at war with their neighbors all the time, not all Humans want to reclaim Ascalon, and so on. Further, not everyone is on board with fighting together in the first place (there's still anti-sylvari sentiment and fear, and sylvari still have reason to hate the asura, etc).

The Personal story gave common cause to unite the races. LS2-4, HoT, & PoF continued those reasons. What point would there be for them to fall out of common purpose? Does it advance a narrative? Does it create meaningful conflicts? Where does a commander fit, especially as they might come from any of those five races?

I'm not even ambivalent about the answer: my point is that it's not phrased as a question I want the devs to consider.Offer a story that makes it important that the Pact breaks up and ask again.

[Trise.2865]

It... kind of can't. The Human-Charr treaty has been signed and is moving forward, despite political and cultural strain on both sides. Smodur and Jenna are determined to see it through to lasting peace, especially now that Logan is marshal of The Pact. The Pale Tree is still injured and silent, leaving the Sylvari all but dependent on the other races (particularly the Humans) for wisdom and guidance... and still have the Mordrem betrayal of The Pact to overcome on top of that. The Norn... kinda don't care either way, but Knut has pushed Hoelbrak to be a permanent home for not only all Norn, but any wayward travelers, especially the displaced refugees from The Grove and Lion's Arch. There's no way the Norn will go back to solitary hunters after forming a tribe that big and powerful for so long. The Asura political structure has been turned on its head twice over, and are too reliant on trade to go back to isolation, despite their often dismissive opinions on the bookahs. I don't even know where to begin with Lion's Arch or Amnoon...

I would, however, appreciate and enjoy stories that explore the world as it is from those differing perspectives, in other words, Story branches that return to racial socio-political concerns and how The Commander affects and/or reacts to them as a representative member of their species. ("Make the Personal Story personal again.") I know it'll be difficult, but not impossible, and would be greatly appreciated (especially from us alt-aholics).

[Ronan.9518]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:...Better yet, a plot where we learn that the quaggan are DM, and we go and exterminate them all before they turn <3

Unless the information that dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons is wrong, there's no way that this will happen. We already have seen Icebrood Quaggan and Risen Quaggan which clearly shows they can be corrupted (and would imply that they cannot be dragon minions).

[Dante.1763]

@Ronan.9518 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:...Better yet, a plot where we learn that the quaggan are DM, and we go and exterminate them all before they turn <3

Unless the information that dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons is wrong, there's no way that this will happen. We already have seen Icebrood Quaggan and Risen Quaggan which clearly shows they can be corrupted (and would imply that they cannot be dragon minions).

I..thought it was wrong? Given the death branded creatures and all, or the vine touched ones.

[Ronan.9518]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Ronan.9518 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:...Better yet, a plot where we learn that the quaggan are DM, and we go and exterminate them all before they turn <3

Unless the information that dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons is wrong, there's no way that this will happen. We already have seen Icebrood Quaggan and Risen Quaggan which clearly shows they can be corrupted (and would imply that they cannot be dragon minions).

I..thought it was wrong? Given the death branded creatures and all, or the vine touched ones.The vinetouched are the result of other ED's having absorbed some of Mordremoth's energy spectrum after he died, some goes for the death-.... which are a result of the other ED's havin absorbed some of Zhaitan's energy spectrum (after he died).

It's rather so that e.g. Kralkatorrik was now able to create minions with characteristics of his own and e.g. Zhaitan's corruption after he absorbed his energy.ED's are still not able to corrupt other dragon minions. As least thats how i understood it.

[InvaGir.9158]

@Danikat.8537 said:I don't think it would make sense for everything to just revert to the way things were, that's not how societies work. It also wouldn't make sense for the charr and humans to be at war, unless all player characters were somehow excluded.

I just want them to do whatever they think will make the most interesting and fun storylines, bearing in mind game mechanics as well as plot.

To be fair the charr in the black citadel may not be like the renegades but they do believe that once all threats are gone the treaty will be over and they will go back to war with the humans.

[Dante.1763]

@InvaGir.9158 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:I don't think it would make sense for everything to just revert to the way things were, that's not how societies work. It also wouldn't make sense for the charr and humans to be at war, unless all player characters were somehow excluded.

I just want them to do whatever they think will make the most interesting and fun storylines, bearing in mind game mechanics as well as plot.

To be fair the charr in the black citadel may not be like the renegades but they do believe that once all threats are gone the treaty will be over and they will go back to war with the humans.

Do they? Where can i find that evidence, ive been RPing in the Citadel a ton over the years and dont recall that information being presented.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Time goes only in one direction. Only fools try to make it go backwards.
We have the Mist war for trivial conflicts. No need to bring them to Tyria.

@InvaGir.9158 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:I don't think it would make sense for everything to just revert to the way things were, that's not how societies work. It also wouldn't make sense for the charr and humans to be at war, unless all player characters were somehow excluded.

I just want them to do whatever they think will make the most interesting and fun storylines, bearing in mind game mechanics as well as plot.

To be fair the charr in the black citadel may not be like the renegades but they do believe that once all threats are gone the treaty will be over and they will go back to war with the humans.

That's mostly Blood Legion. They are the most belligerent and most defectors to Flame are Blood in story.

Ash are in cahoots with the Whispers and are well aware of the benefits of peace (Evon Gnashblade was Ash), so there's no way they'll try to start wars again when they know how much they suck.And Iron are more interested in getting rid of Ghosts, Branded, and Flame legion that messing around with humans, specially with all the touristic revenue they'll be getting when they finally start celebrating Meatoberfest and open the Bane to the public in the Flame Citadel.

If we ever get an expansion or living world episodes focused on the Charr, the group that would be more likely to stir trouble would be Blood Legion.

It would not be out of setting if some youngsters among the Olmakhan tried to get in contact with their free charr brethren after they learned that the Flame legion was defeated and driven away, and that sparking a 'reformist revolution' in Charr society with many people asking to stop the Fahrar system and changing the way they do many things.Then Blood would be the ones that would reject such changes the most, and many of them would joining with the Flame Legion to start a civil war.We could have a huge meta-event in which we storm the Blood Citadel, ending up with the warmongers crushed, and the Olmakhan accepted as a new 'Legion', even though 'Legions' would no longer really be a military division, and it'll become just a name for the a group who share cultural traditions and values, like Kurzick houses or Luxon clans.

It would not be surprising of the next Khan-Ur was an Olmakhan too. They have 'Khan' in their name after all! They could be harboring the last descendants of the original Khan-Ur without anybody knowing, and among them someone capable of using the Claw of the Khan-Ur.

[hugo.4705]

Asura are still supremacist imho, if they decide tomarrow to shut down the gate network everyone is doomed, no more exchanges between far maps and main cities. Plus I wonder how the pact will do without the repulsor technology for their airships... would be regular ships like lion's guard one. Finally the weapons/defenses: no more holo-golem/shield/projector or lightning cannons. Pact would be submerged by risens hopefully not that much thanks to charr tanks.

Norns, well, only see them as drunk reveners, nothing more or less. Kinda Viking but without boat.

Humans are just human. Sylvaris are trees.Charrs are fur-rocious cats, not that impressing, just look at butcher block.

So I'm okay the way they are now, but I never really understood ascalonian ghosts, haven't played gw1, and here they just seems like doing nothing, I don't even know why they are ghosts and still fighting charrs. I don't get the story behind it, just feel like a blank wastelands with random ghost dudes.

Evil organizations aren't issues i think, well half of the asura are surely inquest (I mean, how they manage to get that numbers of members to defend the specimen chamber? That 10 times the population of rata sum!), they are just cool psyko dudes doing illegal and unethical experiments but the results justify the medium.... they were created due to heavy loss of knowledge, and they proudly recovered more than the knowledge lost. Through, yay through torture, but which influent group/person never did a dirty work to obtain its place?

Nightmare court are still enslaving peoples without issues.

Sons of svanir tried to show them as peaceful priests (dragon bash 2019: we believe in the strongest entity who maintain the order of the world: the dragons, we think many should recognize them.)

Bandits are bandits, flame legions are just kitties playing with fireballs.

To conclude, they're no reason for the races to change the way they are doing.

[Random Wax Orc.7695]

I would like option 4. Cultural Appropriation! Scarlett bonded diverse groups in her plan, why not have Aurene & Dragon's Watch do the same? Asura joining the Iron Legion. Sylvari joining the Wolfborn. Human Quaggan hybrids... well, maybe not that one... but there are loads of possibilities and potential.

I still want post Mordremoth sylvari to start appearing with the character models/rigging of the other races. Asuraform Sylvari, Charrform Sylvari, Nornform Sylvari, and maybe even the nearly indistinguishable humanform sylvari. Also allow all races to become liches, exalted, anomalies, and Aurene branded. All these can work because the rigging, animations, and gear don't have to be reworked... unlike actual new playable races. It is all just reskinning current models.

And give us the Shiny Fractal/Raid where all the players get transformed into Skritt. I want my shinies.

[Ototo.3214]

Picked this more of as an 'other' option. I don't necessarily want to see it go back to the way it was before, but I'd definitely like some stuff focusing on a different race other than humans. Pretty sure they already confirmed season 5 wouldn't focus on some cataclysmic issue like season 4 did, so I assume it won't be about the dragons. It could very well focus on like...the Charr, maybe Bangar does something reckless and tries to break the treaty with the humans or something. I still want to know what happened with Braum breaking the tooth. I feel like that plot point was just dropped...

[Kovac.4372]

@"hugo.4705" said:So I'm okay the way they are now, but I never really understood ascalonian ghosts, haven't played gw1, and here they just seems like doing nothing, I don't even know why they are ghosts and still fighting charrs. I don't get the story behind it, just feel like a blank wastelands with random ghost dudes.

Long story short, when humans first arrived in Tyria, they expanded and drove the charr out of Ascalon and established a human kingdom there, built a huge wall to keep the charr out. During king Adelbern the Flame Legion managed to tear down the wall and defeat the humans of Ascalon and take back their home, but king Adelbern basically cursed everyone with a sort of "ultimate resolve" so that even in death the humans of Ascalon would "defend" their kingdom. So, Ascalon is basically haunted.

The charr were always a formidable foe to the humans and always on a war path, it often took desperate measures to keep them at bay ... another example of this is how the Vizier Khilbron literally drowned the Orrian kingdom to prevent them from conquering it (and in so doing becoming stronger).

And now the charr are peacefully staying in Ascalon and we even have hippie charr? I don't buy it ...