Fortnite's Events is what GW2's Living world was supposed to be.

[Rasimir.6239]

@XatraZaytrax.2601 said:it made the world feel aliveIt made the world feel alive for the people who had the chance to play continuously and enough time to experience it all. It made the world feel disrupted and people feel left out if for example they were offline for a 2-week vacation. It made people feel stressed if they knew they didn't have enough time to play for whatever reason and tried to stretch themselves to still experience the content and grab some of the time-limited rewards.

It's not only about new players missing season 1. There were plenty of active players back then that missed parts of it for good reason, which had a high potential to spoil the whole thing. Ultimately season 1 showed that that kind of content delivery in an MMO, while certainly offering some epic experiences, had too much potential to sour people on it to be healthy for the game.

[Vanthian.9267]

@"mindcircus.1506" said:read for comprehension.

Great time to take ones own advice, yes?

Saying Guild Wars 2 has 40 million active players (aka the player base).... Yeah you are way off.

Guild Wars 2 management only claimed 11 million accounts created just 2 year ago. You honestly think that the game gained 30 million accounts since PoF release in 2 short years when it took 5 and a half years to get 11 million? Don't be absurd.

Source: https://www.pcgamesn.com/Guild-Wars-2/Guild-Wars-2-Path-Of-Fire-Release-InfographicInfographic: https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/ac4cdGW2_5Year_Inforgraphic_2017_EN_Final.jpg

[Substance E.4852]

@"Danikat.8537" said:One important question I haven't seen addressed: what did all this "hype" actually achieve for Fortnite? Did their players enjoy it? Did it attract new players? Or did it just get a bunch of people going "Huh, that's interesting." Maybe clicking on a video, then going back to the games they were already playing?

It's all very well to talk about hype in marketing but unless it actually pays off in the form of more players and/or players feeling happier about the game it's wasted effort.

It's a free to play game in a sea of free to play games that is nearing the end of it's meme cycle

Epic needs to keep people thinking about Fortnite or it will only fall out of favor faster as some new genre fad comes around. There's already a good chance that the new CoD will shave off a lot of people and who knows how many more whenever the Master Chief Collection finally releases

Doing some dumb PR stunt is how you stay in the public's eye. Kind of like how EA fabricated hype for Apex Legends

[Vancho.8750]

Wait till the hype dies down, it will start doing the so called one time events again, like League of legends. One time done and gone is waste of resources it works on the fear of missing out, the problem is they will reach a point that no one cares when they saturate with "special" events. Look at WoW they fucking relounched the buggy mess that is vanilla cause it couldn't be played anymore(on Blizzard server anyway).I wonder what the new fad will be after battle royal, will it be the WvW battleground games New World, Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, AoC or the brawler type like Mordhau, For Honor and Mount and blade (this one kinda fits both).

[Healix.5819]

@Vanthian.9267 said:Saying Guild Wars 2 has 40 million active players (aka the player base).... Yeah you are way off.

fyi, they were talking about Fortnite...

I'd like to know why gw2's events never reached this hype level that Fortnite has? Is there any sort of difference?

playerbase of 250k vs playerbase of 40 million.Yeah it's a puzzler.

... as in Fortnite had 40 million while GW2 only had 250k, hence the massive difference in hype.

[Vanthian.9267]

@"Healix.5819" said:... as in Fortnite had 40 million.....

Fortnite doesn't have a concurrent player count of 40 million either. His numbers are just plain wrong and getting pulled out of the air.

The stats on the playerbase for Fortnite that was last given out was 10.7 million back in February 2019. They had 250 million registered accounts by March 2019.

Source: https://www.pcgamesn.com/fortnite/fortnite-battle-royale-player-numbers

Also, in the original post the OP references Fortnite first then Guild Wars 2. This would lead people to view the discussion with Fortnite vs Guild Wars 2. Even the title mentions Fortnite first. The original comment I quoted was just all kinds of wrong in both order and numbers.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@"Arden.7480" said:That's the mistake that Blizzard made with Battle for Azeroth, and finally after 1 year people that wanted challenging stuff got what they wanted - epic encounter with Azshara.

But before that it was just content for casuals.

If there is no balance in pleasing the whole audience with REAL features, people will be eternally disappointed.

Ya i agree with you on this sentiment. I'll admit I've complained every now and again, about the hype of the game mostly...because really i think gw2 is a good game and has so much potential, and it deserves to have as many people playing it as fortnite...but there's so much potential that's gone out the window in favor of "rewards" and instant gratification that the challenge and game-play suffer...

Then, when they did put challenging content people complained some more...and now we see the other side, which is content too hard for people to play and people end up not playing it.

It's a real problem, and i think it would be nice if Anet put their foot down and decided on a direction for their game. There's a lot of people asking for things like "player housing" which really was never part of the original plan to begin with, and it gives me the same vibes as what i stated above...a feature that gets added and then tanks horribly because it wasn't as good as people thought it would be. Another example, is in the pvp forums, some folks asking for "Battle Royale Mode" for spvp...which to me sounds like a terrible idea...but the reason people are even asking for it in the first place is because they are bored of the conquest game mode that we've had for 7 years now. Just like when they added a new game mode (DOTA) it also tanked horribly...

So ya, it's really hard to reach that balance that you are talking about, but the way to reach that balance is to have a solid vision for the game that isn't trying to cater to everyone's feelings. I don't mind if they change the vision of the game from season to season, like having a happy story in LS3 or a super dark story like LS4. But that vision needs to be set in stone...not afraid to take chances with peoples feelings.... I've said this before but, if they killed a major character like aurene or Taimi, it would actually garner a solid reaction that would resonate with everyone...just like Tybalt...which i think across the population of gw2, we can agree that we all have a place in our hearts for Tybalt.... If he was still alive i don't believe we would have had the same feelings as we do for him now.

I'm not saying we should just start killing characters...but the vision of the game, the story and everything else needs to be unwavering and not afraid to go into places that make people feel uncomfortable. To quote from the movie Heat. "

"

[InvaderJim.7023]

@Randulf.7614 said:People hated it in GW2.

speak for urself pls. all of the few ppl still playing the game from back then i know speak highly of season 1. still by far the best season/experience to date in my opinion too, both story-wise and how they used their world to tell the story. imagine they would have continued in this way. maybe we wouldnt get an empty new map every few months no one plays in after every1 grinded his/her map-specific 100est currency. instead they would add content to existing maps, change them around, destroy things, build new ones etc. THAT eould have been the way to keep old maps relevant and interesting. regarding the complains about missing replayability: just turn old events/bossfights into fracs, simple as that. sure, u wont be able to play the whole story this way, but lets be honest: the lw-episodes we have now are mostly cohesive and dont require any knowledge of previous one anyways. just add some sort of hystorian-npc that gives u a recap of the rpevous ecvents u missed, maybe even with the cutscenes etc. and wed be good to go. the only real issue i ever had with season one were the technical difficulties. serious lag, dcs snd overall poor performance during large events. which didnt change much in 7 years, im looking at u wvw and bossrush...

[Randulf.7614]

@InvaderJim.7023 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:People hated it in GW2.

speak for urself pls. all of the few ppl still playing the game from back then i know speak highly of season 1. still by far the best season/experience to date in my opinion too, both story-wise and how they used their world to tell the story. imagine they would have continued in this way. maybe we wouldnt get an empty new map every few months no one plays in after every1 grinded his/her map-specific 100est currency. instead they would add content to existing maps, change them around, destroy things, build new ones etc. THAT eould have been the way to keep old maps relevant and interesting. regarding the complains about missing replayability: just turn old events/bossfights into fracs, simple as that. sure, u wont be able to play the whole story this way, but lets be honest: the lw-episodes we have now are mostly cohesive and dont require any knowledge of previous one anyways. just add some sort of hystorian-npc that gives u a recap of the rpevous ecvents u missed, maybe even with the cutscenes etc. and wed be good to go. the only real issue i ever had with season one were the technical difficulties. serious lag, dcs snd overall poor performance during large events. which didnt change much in 7 years, im looking at u wvw and bossrush...

I am not discounting those who enjoyed it, but there is no doubt whatsoever that S1 was not well received at all in a more generalised sense. It had virtually no story, an over reliance on festivals, temporary content and a complete lack of direction. Even the devs were complaining about it - specifically the dungeon devs who saw their hard work stripped. Those who were here no matter how they feel about the Season will remember the backlash acutely. One acknowledged repeatedly by Anet themselves.

In the 7 years, I have seen no other expac or season cause as strong a negative reaction as Season 1 did.Story alone in 18 months had less narrative than 2-3 episodes of a current Season. The quality of the story was even worse, with it barely showing any direction beyond super powered baddie being able to do things that made no sense. For all S2s perceived faults today, it was generally well regarded in how it explsined the story of S1 better than S1 ever attempted to.

If they had continued down this route, GW2 prob would not exist today.

I am not saying that arent important and great bits from S1 - the marjory investigation instance. marionette, revamped Teq, Battle for LA. The invasions are now templates for many side stories.But at the time and as a whole season, it was a mess and a disaster for the game that it took a long time to recover from.

If you were there with us and enjoyed it, then great.

[Dashingsteel.3410]

@Randulf.7614 said:

@InvaderJim.7023 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:People hated it in GW2.

speak for urself pls. all of the few ppl still playing the game from back then i know speak highly of season 1. still by far the best season/experience to date in my opinion too, both story-wise and how they used their world to tell the story. imagine they would have continued in this way. maybe we wouldnt get an empty new map every few months no one plays in after every1 grinded his/her map-specific 100est currency. instead they would add content to existing maps, change them around, destroy things, build new ones etc. THAT eould have been the way to keep old maps relevant and interesting. regarding the complains about missing replayability: just turn old events/bossfights into fracs, simple as that. sure, u wont be able to play the whole story this way, but lets be honest: the lw-episodes we have now are mostly cohesive and dont require any knowledge of previous one anyways. just add some sort of hystorian-npc that gives u a recap of the rpevous ecvents u missed, maybe even with the cutscenes etc. and wed be good to go. the only real issue i ever had with season one were the technical difficulties. serious lag, dcs snd overall poor performance during large events. which didnt change much in 7 years, im looking at u wvw and bossrush...

I am not discounting those who enjoyed it, but there is no doubt whatsoever that S1 was not well received at all in a more generalised sense. It had virtually no story, an over reliance on festivals, temporary content and a complete lack of direction. Even the devs were complaining about it - specifically the dungeon devs who saw their hard work stripped. Those who were here no matter how they feel about the Season will remember the backlash acutely. One acknowledged repeatedly by Anet themselves.

In the 7 years, I have seen no other expac or season cause as strong a negative reaction as Season 1 did.Story alone in 18 months had less narrative than 2-3 episodes of a current Season. The quality of the story was even worse, with it barely showing any direction beyond super powered baddie being able to do things that made no sense. For all S2s perceived faults today, it was generally well regarded in how it explsined the story of S1 better than S1 ever attempted to.

If they had continued down this route, GW2 prob would not exist today.

I am not saying that arent important and great bits from S1 - the marjory investigation instance. marionette, revamped Teq, Battle for LA. The invasions are now templates for many side stories.But at the time and as a whole season, it was a mess and a disaster for the game that it took a long time to recover from.

If you were there with us and enjoyed it, then great.

I guess I must be in the minority because I had a very negative reaction to season 2 because it seemed extremely mundane compared to season 1. Season 2 also emphasized single player mode over massively multiplayer mode. In the seasons following season 1, there was nothing to draw players together. I've heard many players say that some of the fondest memories in the game came from the season 1 events I have never heard a player wax nostalgic about subsequent seasons.

[Randulf.7614]

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@InvaderJim.7023 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:People hated it in GW2.

speak for urself pls. all of the few ppl still playing the game from back then i know speak highly of season 1. still by far the best season/experience to date in my opinion too, both story-wise and how they used their world to tell the story. imagine they would have continued in this way. maybe we wouldnt get an empty new map every few months no one plays in after every1 grinded his/her map-specific 100est currency. instead they would add content to existing maps, change them around, destroy things, build new ones etc. THAT eould have been the way to keep old maps relevant and interesting. regarding the complains about missing replayability: just turn old events/bossfights into fracs, simple as that. sure, u wont be able to play the whole story this way, but lets be honest: the lw-episodes we have now are mostly cohesive and dont require any knowledge of previous one anyways. just add some sort of hystorian-npc that gives u a recap of the rpevous ecvents u missed, maybe even with the cutscenes etc. and wed be good to go. the only real issue i ever had with season one were the technical difficulties. serious lag, dcs snd overall poor performance during large events. which didnt change much in 7 years, im looking at u wvw and bossrush...

I am not discounting those who enjoyed it, but there is no doubt whatsoever that S1 was not well received at all in a more generalised sense. It had virtually no story, an over reliance on festivals, temporary content and a complete lack of direction. Even the devs were complaining about it - specifically the dungeon devs who saw their hard work stripped. Those who were here no matter how they feel about the Season will remember the backlash acutely. One acknowledged repeatedly by Anet themselves.

In the 7 years, I have seen no other expac or season cause as strong a negative reaction as Season 1 did.Story alone in 18 months had less narrative than 2-3 episodes of a current Season. The quality of the story was even worse, with it barely showing any direction beyond super powered baddie being able to do things that made no sense. For all S2s perceived faults today, it was generally well regarded in how it explsined the story of S1 better than S1 ever attempted to.

If they had continued down this route, GW2 prob would not exist today.

I am not saying that arent important and great bits from S1 - the marjory investigation instance. marionette, revamped Teq, Battle for LA. The invasions are now templates for many side stories.But at the time and as a whole season, it was a mess and a disaster for the game that it took a long time to recover from.

If you were there with us and enjoyed it, then great.

I guess I must be in the minority because I had a very negative reaction to season 2 because it seemed extremely mundane compared to season 1. Season 2 also emphasized single player mode over massively multiplayer mode. In the seasons following season 1, there was nothing to draw players together. I've heard many players say that some of the fondest memories in the game came from the season 1 events I have never heard a player wax nostalgic about subsequent seasons.

S2 is an odd one. It was well received at the time, however it has dated the worst of the stories since and it feels really cringy to replay. The story holds together pretty well and the way they unveiled the maps was pretty good too.

People don't wax lyrical about later seasons so much because they can replay all and of it at any time. The problem (beyond almost zero story) with S1 is that it can never be reproduced in the same way ever again. That will always skew the memories somewhat (although I'll concede that Marionette and Battle for LA actually were that good)

[Blanche Neige.7241]

@Operator.2590 said:

@"Healix.5819" said:It is however the (distant) future of MMOs.Na, not even in the slightest really. That's like someone paying to buy/rent a movie, and it automatically starts halfway through no matter how badly they want to start at the beginning.

Then

telling the person "Oh well, tough luck" when they want to watch it from the beginning.

You seriously think a MMORPG can work like that? Nope--already tried, already failed. (But was a hell of a show to watch before it was fixed.)

It could work if there was a way to have continuously new things happening all the time somewhere in the game. Like Healix said : in the distant future (maybe).

[Operator.2590]

@Blanche Neige.7241 said:

@Operator.2590 said:

@"Healix.5819" said:It is however the (distant) future of MMOs.Na, not even in the slightest really. That's like someone paying to buy/rent a movie, and it automatically starts halfway through no matter how badly they want to start at the beginning.

Then

telling the person "Oh well, tough luck" when they want to watch it from the beginning.

You seriously think a MMORPG can work like that? Nope--already tried, already failed. (But was a hell of a show to watch before it was fixed.)

It could work if there was a way to have continuously new things happening all the time somewhere in the game. Like Healix said : in the distant future (maybe).

Still a hard pass. Then it's just the same situation, only you tell the person "Well, you could go watch this other movie instead?" And hope they forget about wanting to watch the first one as it slowly deletes itself while it plays.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Arden.7480 said:GW2 suffers because developers care too much about the audience and feels like they have no real vision for raids or fractals, so they keep asking players which leads to disapproval of another part of the audience, and it's been like that for 7 years.

We still don't exactly know what exactly raids or challenging content in Gw2 means to the devs.

They are more focused on what players feel, rather than what they want to do with THEIR game. There is no balance between both sides, so it is just spike after spike of disappointment.

People after HoT wanted something that won't be challenging, so they made PoF super casual, but then it turned out that people really wanted challenging content, not casual.

So basically... this game is meant to fall, because of this constant change of targets, instead of doing equal content for each audience.

but thats kind of how they been with the SPvP. Players have no say so in what direction SPvP is going. Developers said so themselves thatt Conquest will stay the main form of SPvP going forward.

Many of us are tired of Conquest and want new forms of Instanced PvP. Anet's goal of being the king of Esports failed.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Vanthian.9267 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:read for comprehension.

Great time to take ones own advice, yes?

Saying Guild Wars 2 has 40 million active players (aka the player base).... Yeah you are way off.

Guild Wars 2 management only claimed 11 million accounts created just 2 year ago. You honestly think that the game gained 30 million accounts since PoF release in 2 short years when it took 5 and a half years to get 11 million? Don't be absurd.

Source:

https://www.pcgamesn.com/Guild-Wars-2/Guild-Wars-2-Path-Of-Fire-Release-Infographic

Infographic:

https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/ac4cdGW2_5Year_Inforgraphic_2017_EN_Final.jpg

He never claimed GW2 had 40 million active players... You misunderstood his comment, hence why he said you should reread it. The 250k active players was refering to GW2.

He was refering to Fortnite having 40 million active players, which as other shave pointed out, is not impossible given their size.

[dodgerrule.8739]

Living world season 1 should have a festival loop where it is active during months that a holiday event is not.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

The complexity and dev time poured into content like Living World, disappearing when its over is the most blatant misuse of resources. So bad it wasn't even an issue that could have only been learned through hindsight. It was just poor design choice.

Fortnite is only sustainable because it is matches and its PvE was all but abandoned.

[Fozzie.5370]

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:The complexity and dev time poured into content like Living World, disappearing when its over is the most blatant misuse of resources. So bad it wasn't even an issue that could have only been learned through hindsight. It was just poor design choice.

^^ So totally, very, inexplicably, and undeniably true in every way shape or form possible

[Zaraki.5784]

Oh god, I was hoping to never have to read the name of that cancer of a game here...

[Swagger.1459]

@"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:I'm really trying to talk more about why gw2 doesn't have hype, while fortnite does, despite both games doing roughly the same thing (at one point in time at least)

I think gw2's biggest hype train around living world content was around before Lazarus appeared, and during Lazarus's plot line before he is revealed to be Balthazaar. I think everyone on reddit was trying to figure out what was happening in the plot of the story, creators like WP wholly focused on the mysteries, and back then, Deroir was making lore video's about the whole thing. Maybe the hype might not have been strong outside gw2, but the hype was definitely there for almost everyone that played the game.

So ya, i can understand S1 not working out for the structure of the game, but gw2 has fixed that, and it still doesn't perform to the level of fortnite.

So what you are saying is that you don't know the differences between and online shooter game, that runs on "Platforms: Xbox One · PlayStation 4 · Nintendo Switch · Android · Personal computer · Macintosh · iPhone" and an online mmorpg PC game?

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:I'm really trying to talk more about why gw2 doesn't have hype, while fortnite does, despite both games doing roughly the same thing (at one point in time at least)

I think gw2's biggest hype train around living world content was around before Lazarus appeared, and during Lazarus's plot line before he is revealed to be Balthazaar. I think everyone on reddit was trying to figure out what was happening in the plot of the story, creators like WP wholly focused on the mysteries, and back then, Deroir was making lore video's about the whole thing. Maybe the hype might not have been strong outside gw2, but the hype was definitely there for almost everyone that played the game.

So ya, i can understand S1 not working out for the structure of the game, but gw2 has fixed that, and it still doesn't perform to the level of fortnite.

So what you are saying is that you don't know the differences between and online shooter game, that runs on "Platforms: Xbox One · PlayStation 4 · Nintendo Switch · Android · Personal computer · Macintosh · iPhone" and an online mmorpg PC game?

You can be smug to help you reaffirm your argument, but just know that it’s pretty rude to make assumptions for others.

Yes two games that aren’t the same game are gonna be different from each other.

But hype level is independent of whether it’s a game, movie, Tv show...they are all different things that can generate the same amount of hype. Typically a lot of things that work for one medium work for another...Do trailers ring a bell? Or have you never heard of those.

It’s not out of the question to wonder why two games for pc that had the same update structure differ in performance. It’s like wondering why two movies, transforms and blade runner 2049 and wondering why blade runner didn’t perform to the level of transformers. The answer isn’t always as clear as “hurr durr different genre or something.”

[Swagger.1459]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:I'm really trying to talk more about why gw2 doesn't have hype, while fortnite does, despite both games doing roughly the same thing (at one point in time at least)

I think gw2's biggest hype train around living world content was around before Lazarus appeared, and during Lazarus's plot line before he is revealed to be Balthazaar. I think everyone on reddit was trying to figure out what was happening in the plot of the story, creators like WP wholly focused on the mysteries, and back then, Deroir was making lore video's about the whole thing. Maybe the hype might not have been strong outside gw2, but the hype was definitely there for almost everyone that played the game.

So ya, i can understand S1 not working out for the structure of the game, but gw2 has fixed that, and it still doesn't perform to the level of fortnite.

So what you are saying is that you don't know the differences between and online shooter game, that runs on "Platforms: Xbox One · PlayStation 4 · Nintendo Switch · Android · Personal computer · Macintosh · iPhone" and an online mmorpg PC game?

You can be smug to help you reaffirm your argument, but just know that it’s pretty rude to make assumptions for others.

Yes two games that aren’t the same game are gonna be different from each other.

But hype level is independent of whether it’s a game, movie, Tv show...they are all different things that can generate the same amount of hype. Typically a lot of things that work for one medium work for another...Do trailers ring a bell? Or have you never heard of those.

It’s not out of the question to wonder why two games for pc that had the same update structure differ in performance. It’s like wondering why two movies, transforms and blade runner 2049 and wondering why blade runner didn’t perform to the level of transformers. The answer isn’t always as clear as “hurr durr different genre or something.”

You are comparing 2 completely different games, but you seem to think they are similar. The only things those 2 games have in common are being online video games.

And Fortnite outperforms GW2 on the PC, but why did you pick Fortnite when there are 9 on the list of top grossing PC games so far in 2019, and there is obviously less hype for it then the 8 games beating it?