Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates

[Linken.6345]

@DarkEmiLupus.2876 said:

@Nick.5276 said:In someways it doesn't really matter to me now. I've really enjoyed GW2 and love my characters, but after they introduced this awful system I've stopped playing, Path of Exile and mechwarrior have regained my attention so I'll just sadly leave it. Good luck fighting the fight guys and gals.

Yeah I'll be playing other games too cuz of this system. I just wish I haven't bought character slots with real money 1 month before this system got implemented, now I feel like its wasted money. Anyway, I hope more people got discourage from playing the game with this system so the company sees that they need the urge to change it to a better one. You will only see me connecting 1 sec to the game when new LS5 chapters arrives and ONLY because I dont want to spare a diem in order to have them later.·New LS chapter->logging->getting chapter unlocked->unlogging->dust->REPEAT.

Well having 2 of each class and 1 extra key runner so 19 I dont see those slots as wasted since it means I can have 2+2 equipment and 3+3 trait builds per class.Without having to pay a penny into this system.

[Kas.3509]

@Whitworth.7259 said:I understand people have already spent money on templates, but I think at this point you're obliged to refund them, remove the system, fix it and release it when it's done. Bare minimum.

This.

Also why isn't it the focus? After today's release of next ls it should be a priority to fix most of the problems so it is usable. Can't they understand than until it's fixed most of us are stuck playing 1 build or switching manually - and Im not gonna waste 30 mins every time I want to do so - so we're basically stuck with 1 build until you fix it? I'm bored playing the same all the damn time. I liked to switch builds for fun daily for open world and had a few for raids, fractals and pvp...

[kharmin.7683]

@Kas.3509 said:

@"Whitworth.7259" said:I understand people have already spent money on templates, but I think at this point you're obliged to refund them, remove the system, fix it and release it when it's done. Bare minimum.

This.

Also why isn't it the focus? After today's release of next ls it should be a priority to fix most of the problems so it is usable. Can't they understand than until it's fixed most of us are stuck playing 1 build or switching manually - and Im not gonna waste 30 mins every time I want to do so - so we're basically stuck with 1 build until you fix it? I'm bored playing the same all the kitten time. I liked to switch builds for fun daily for open world and had a few for raids, fractals and pvp...

I highly doubt that "most of us" are stuck. ANet has the metrics. They would know for sure how the current iteration of templates are being used (or not used). I could just as easily say that most of us enjoy the templates as they are and don't want the system removed at any point during which they may "fix" or otherwise modify the existing system.

[phokus.8934]

@Whitworth.7259 said:I understand people have already spent money on templates, but I think at this point you're obliged to refund them, remove the system, fix it and release it when it's done. Bare minimum.

Personally, the bare minimum should be lowering the gem cost or making the equipment unlocks account bound at the current price.

The bothersome part out of all of this is:1) We gave them feedback a month in advance and nothing came out of it2) The continued feedback was/is heavily moderated3) The shear shortsightedness on how this was implemented is astounding. Clearly someone with money in mind designed this4) We won't see any meaningful changes until next year? That's complete madness and borderline inept.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Here's my feedback based on the recent post by ANet.

It would seem, ANet, that you started template design with either:

• What can we do within the extremely limited character build/gear interface the game already has;
• How can we design a system that lets us get the most initial money, and then get later periodic infusions of cash by releasing more templates;
• or both.

I believe a better place to start would have been:

• The players most likely to want/use a lot of templates have access to a free system which seems to work for them. What do we have to do to design a system that improves their quality of play, especially if we plan to charge them for it. After all, if the system serves their needs, it will surely serve the needs of most players.

I take your recent reply to this issue to mean that you are looking only to address a couple of minor criticisms, not create a system that will improve the quality of play compared to that provided for free by ARC. I believe this will result in continued ill-will from the largest target market for a template system.

Signed: a player who did not use ARC, but who finds your existing system to offer little value, especially when compared to the prices you are charging.

[keenedge.9675]

@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:• Automatically switching build and equipment templates when a character enters or exits PvP and WvW. We’ll need to make updates to this functionality to further integrate templates with PvP.

PLEASE make this optional. I don't want/need dedicated PvP, WvW spots. I just want to use the templates for outdoor PvE experimenting/tweaking with elite specs.

[keenedge.9675]

@Dante.1763 said:

@otto.5684 said:

Who knows, but with the spaghetti code this game has, it may not be possible to do even that.

Competent programmers can ALWAYS fix spaghetti code with a proper redesign of modules and testing. (I've had to repair bad ASM code, it can be rough)

@Anet: BTW, I'm retired and will work for peanuts.

[Heibi.4251]

@keenedge.9675 said:

@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:• Automatically switching build and equipment templates when a character enters or exits PvP and WvW. We’ll need to make updates to this functionality to further integrate templates with PvP.

PLEASE make this optional. I don't want/need dedicated PvP, WvW spots. I just want to use the templates for outdoor PvE experimenting/tweaking with elite specs.

Exactly, I never do pvp. Don't want/need a dedicated slot for that at all.

[Balthzar.3807]

@Linken.6345 said:

@DarkEmiLupus.2876 said:

@Nick.5276 said:In someways it doesn't really matter to me now. I've really enjoyed GW2 and love my characters, but after they introduced this awful system I've stopped playing, Path of Exile and mechwarrior have regained my attention so I'll just sadly leave it. Good luck fighting the fight guys and gals.

Yeah I'll be playing other games too cuz of this system. I just wish I haven't bought character slots with real money 1 month before this system got implemented, now I feel like its wasted money. Anyway, I hope more people got discourage from playing the game with this system so the company sees that they need the urge to change it to a better one. You will only see me connecting 1 sec to the game when new LS5 chapters arrives and ONLY because I dont want to spare a diem in order to have them later.·New LS chapter->logging->getting chapter unlocked->unlogging->dust->REPEAT.

Well having 2 of each class and 1 extra key runner so 19 I dont see those slots as wasted since it means I can have 2+2 equipment and 3+3 trait builds per class.Without having to pay a penny into this system.

they need to have one equipment for each build because with the majority of builds you use different stats

[StrYdeR.2459]

@"Rubi Bayer.8493" said:Hi, everyone,

Thank you for all the constructive feedback you’ve provided about templates. We’ve spent a lot of time reading and discussing your thoughts, and we’ve identified a few updates we feel confident we can start working on.

Here are the pieces of feedback we’re currently working on addressing:• Automatically switching build and equipment templates when a character enters or exits PvP and WvW. We’ll need to make updates to this functionality to further integrate templates with PvP.• Ease of swapping legendary equipment between characters.• Greater flexibility when making experimental changes to templates.Because we have limited time to program, test, and implement these changes before the winter holidays, we’ll be able to give you a progress update early in the new year.

We’ll keep reading your feedback, so please continue to share your thoughts as you play with templates.Thank you!

This doesn't feel like you are addressing the biggest problems. The "Loadout System" (I cannot in good conscience call it a template system) introduced is inherently flawed and should be removed and completely reworked.It feels like it was designed by a person who once read a paragraph that described build templates, and thereafter only ever played Call of Duty - and based this system on that.

The suggestions in this thread should give you a roadmap - and as someone who is in software development and product development - I can safely say that sometimes you have to scrap something rather than continue to "put a band-aid on a heart attack."

You have lost me on this one Anet - truly!

[Dawdler.8521]

@keenedge.9675 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@otto.5684 said:

Who knows, but with the spaghetti code this game has, it may not be possible to do even that.

Competent programmers can ALWAYS fix spaghetti code with a proper redesign of modules and testing. (I've had to repair bad ASM code, it can be rough)

@Anet: BTW, I'm retired and will work for peanuts.Pfff, just add more goto to fix it.

[StrYdeR.2459]

@"IndigoSundown.5419" said:I take your recent reply to this issue to mean that you are looking only to address a couple of minor criticisms, not create a system that will improve the quality of play compared to that provided for free by ARC. I believe this will result in continued ill-will from the largest target market for a template system.

This... It seems that the Devs truly believe they have "Nailed It!" and only have to address "minor flaws" (judging by the recent response from Rubi)

[BadHealer.3608]

I did never use templates before, but since 3 weeks the loadout system is broken and I can't play my Reveant anymore. (It is no fun to scream 6, 6, ,6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6!!!! till you are death, since skills 6-10 are not working here.) A new living story is coming out and I can't play, the holidays are coming, I still can't play and after 3 months of waiting I may be able to play again the game that I love. Do you really think that this is a timely response to these bugs? Even if the new Living Story is the best ever, I can't do them, when I keep laying in the dirt of the floor, because I can't use skills. How do you expect me to gave you money as I would normally do while playing at the Holidays, since I can't play at the Holidays?

I really don't know how you keep track of this things, but please make sure that the Living Story team don't get a punishment for not giving us enough revenue, since the other team did make a big no-no.

Is there any way to subscribe to a service where I get notice when the bugs of "this don't call them loadouts, call them templates" had been fixed?

Let's see if there is an other game that I can play in the next 3 months, till this got fixed.

[Klypto.1703]

@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:Hi, everyone,

Thank you for all the constructive feedback you’ve provided about templates. We’ve spent a lot of time reading and discussing your thoughts, and we’ve identified a few updates we feel confident we can start working on.

Here are the pieces of feedback we’re currently working on addressing:• Automatically switching build and equipment templates when a character enters or exits PvP and WvW. We’ll need to make updates to this functionality to further integrate templates with PvP.• Ease of swapping legendary equipment between characters.• Greater flexibility when making experimental changes to templates.Because we have limited time to program, test, and implement these changes before the winter holidays, we’ll be able to give you a progress update early in the new year.

We’ll keep reading your feedback, so please continue to share your thoughts as you play with templates.Thank you!

The best thing with legendary items for my 2 cents is for some legendary feature like a vault kind of like how skins are stored in the wardrobe section. So it doesn't actually have to be transferred when you want to use it. Plus it would be great if its skins for non-pve acquired legendary armor could have a skin that is character based so that it can still use transmutation charges but only if you want to change it for that given character.

Also sure its mentioned many times but I did come across an unfortunate bug or glitch in wvw where on rev it made me have all kalla skills and it was like the most useless one with multiple copies of it. Usually happens when it gets dismounted too but at least boosted some egos since I couldn't actually fight back until I got out of combat to actually fix it.

[Laureh.2097]

I am simply not using the new build templates at all. If I have a pve toon, I set the 3 templates to the pve build, on a wvw toon, I set the 3 templates to wvw. I haven't even tried to pvp. Did they mess that up? It would have been a nice new feature but from guild member comments, I haven't even bothered to try and use it. I am happy I'm at least able to just ignore this "feature" until it becomes useful.

[Fenella.2634]

Thank you Rubi for finally at least giving us a broad outline.

I am happy to read that at least some of the most gamebreaking issues are going to get fixed. I would like to have at least the QoL back that we had before the update, please. I won't even ask for a QoL improvement in this anymore, just get back up to the level we had. And maybe try to do something about revenant before next year?Thanks a lot in advance. :)

Also, I still won't spend a cent on this, as long as we don't get at least a 95 % discount. I know it's a fantasy game and I love the lore and story, but prices should be realistic, though. :)

[Kas.3509]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Kas.3509 said:

@"Whitworth.7259" said:I understand people have already spent money on templates, but I think at this point you're obliged to refund them, remove the system, fix it and release it when it's done. Bare minimum.

This.

Also why isn't it the focus? After today's release of next ls it should be a priority to fix most of the problems so it is usable. Can't they understand than until it's fixed most of us are stuck playing 1 build or switching manually - and Im not gonna waste 30 mins every time I want to do so - so we're basically stuck with 1 build until you fix it? I'm bored playing the same all the kitten time. I liked to switch builds for fun daily for open world and had a few for raids, fractals and pvp...

I highly doubt that "most of us" are stuck. ANet has the metrics. They would know for sure how the current iteration of templates are being used (or not used). I could just as easily say that most of us enjoy the templates as they are and don't want the system removed at any point during which they may "fix" or otherwise modify the existing system.

When I said "us" I obviously mean complaining people - on here and on reddit - it's a whole lot of players. It might be just a % of community - as I doubt anyone who doesnt regularly play 4+ builds really needs templates at all and most of casual players don't use many builds. But the people who might need many builds - so the people who would all probably buy the templates of they're implemented correctly - are the ones that are complaining.

Considering the bad press gw2 god lately it would be smart to fix things if a large group of people is complaining about a bad implementation. I used to see g2 recommended everywhere where people asked for mmo to play and now people are like "well, if you dont mind bad templates, employees leaving,, no expansion on horizon and devs not listening to community then you can enjoy gw2" - this isn't what I wanna see around and it's not working good for the game - I mean no one in their right mind would join the game reading reviews like that.

[PirateSpice.8735]

@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:Hi, everyone,

Thank you for all the constructive feedback you’ve provided about templates. We’ve spent a lot of time reading and discussing your thoughts, and we’ve identified a few updates we feel confident we can start working on.

Here are the pieces of feedback we’re currently working on addressing:• Automatically switching build and equipment templates when a character enters or exits PvP and WvW. We’ll need to make updates to this functionality to further integrate templates with PvP.• Ease of swapping legendary equipment between characters.• Greater flexibility when making experimental changes to templates.Because we have limited time to program, test, and implement these changes before the winter holidays, we’ll be able to give you a progress update early in the new year.

We’ll keep reading your feedback, so please continue to share your thoughts as you play with templates.Thank you!

It is so frustrating that Anet thinks this is even coming close to addressing the problems with the template system. Anet, the only reasonable solution right now is to pull the entire system while you rework it. As it exists it is broken. It hurts the game and frustrates players. We realize that the overlords want the money that some people are paying for tabs, but meanwhile you have people actually leaving GW2 over this, and more will be leaving over the next few months while you leave this broken system in place.

Remove the templates. Lower the prices. Stop gouging us on every little thing. It's insulting.

I'm really trying to hold on to my enjoyment of this game, but the thing that is eroding it more than anything else is the blatant apathy from ArenaNet. I get that a company exists to make money and we are the source of that money. But if you treat us like cattle instead of valued customers, we're going to go find greener pastures.

[kharmin.7683]

Please do NOT remove the current templates. They work just fine for me and many others like me. However ------ before everyone flames me ------- please continue to work on revisions and/or upgrades to the existing implementation.

Just because some are displeased with the templates as they stand today is not a good reason to remove them for those who do use them.

[PirateSpice.8735]

@"kharmin.7683" said:Please do NOT remove the current templates. They work just fine for me and many others like me. However ------ before everyone flames me ------- please continue to work on revisions and/or upgrades to the existing implementation.

Just because some are displeased with the templates as they stand today is not a good reason to remove them for those who do use them.

I won't flame you, I promise.

You have to understand that they're not just "displeased" with templates. They are literally breaking their characters' functionality, especially if they are using Legendaries. So, while you may be satisfied, others are going to have to spend months struggling to make use of the items they already struggled the most to craft in the first place.

Plus, if we can actually get them to lower these ridiculous prices, better to stop them from selling more at the current price now that they'd have to refund later.

The easiest and most universally beneficial solution is to roll back to how things were before the template system, when things actually worked. Then, when they have a template system that is properly beta tested by players and fully functional (and preferably reasonably priced), then they can roll it out again.

[kharmin.7683]

Thank you, @PirateSpice.8735 for a cordial reply. Valid points, to be sure. ;)

[wolfsblut.9435]

A "template" must contain of one set of equipment and one build configuration.Such "template" should be character boundSuch "template" should be shareable between playersOne template should be marked as the default template for any gamemodeThere should be 3 templates per character included for freePlayers may buy up to 24 template slots per character

The system as it is now implemented looks like it was designed and developed by someone who has never played the game.

[Nick.5276]

Having followed the thread and read what you intend to do, in the new year, about the build templates that's me done with the game till at least until then.

You've alienated many hardcore players by introducing a feature that makes it impossible for them to play how they want, 1 Character with many builds.You've missed the casuals as most have many characters but only 1 build each so the system is no improvement for them.
It excludes anyone from trying out builds as they have to mix and match back and forth just as tediously with templates, gear load outs etc, maybe more so than before.Then you say there is going to be no changes till the new year which is weeks away and too late for me. My game time doesn't hang around for your dev schedule.Also you are fixing issues on the periphery of the core problems.

You have proved you cannot get your house in order let alone release value for time and effort new content, the new installment is...mediocre, at best.

Maybe the wrong people got let go....?

[susana.7814]

Anet: asks for feedback.

Forum mods: Forum bans those with negative feedback and unstickies thread in the hopes that it gets buried on the forums.

Anet this isn't going away and just saying " we'll fix minor complaints next year" is not close to enough. What do you intend to do about the extremely aggressive monetization models put in place?

What will you do specifically to fix legendary gear?

Will we ever get a more fluid and less clunky system like ARC?

did NCsoft force you to alienate your playerbase in the name of profits? This was a line you guys had never crossed until now.

[Lion.6590]

@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:• Ease of swapping legendary equipment between characters.

This is a must! And whatever solution you guys find to it, please, make it works for gathering tools too!