Buff core necro stability access

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

I just checked it and it's fucking disgusting. They straight up nerfed necro, killing the core.Doom has 0.65s cast time?? Stunbreaks on shorter cds but only in PVE??Foot in the Grave removed and we don't get any stab to compensate.

All necro changes are "make our slowass skills more readable or straigh up nerf it". I can only see one cause - a-net devs don't play necro much, got recked by one and now are taking their revenge..

[KrHome.1920]

The average stability uptime on any build will be 3 seconds after this patch. The sources have a range from 1 to 6 seconds. General boon uptime has decreased significantly, so there are a lot less boons to corrupt.

Core necro is the necro spec with the most reliable and frequent corrupts. For core it's easy to corrupt that bit of stability which is still in the game. And you can do it instant with F1 when running a spite+curses build.

Every single might dependent build gets gutted. Might duration is cut in half or even worse on most skills and traits. That's a lot of damage loss to a lot of builds even without looking at the 20 to 50% weapon damage nerfs.

Core necro will be incredibly tanky and a pain to fight in the future and needs some drawbacks.

How hard is it to understand that looking isolated at one change in a patch with 900 changes and make a suggestion about future viablity is pure nonsense?

[Nimon.7840]

XD they basically completely removed stability for core necro

[Sobx.1758]

@Nimon.7840 said:XD they basically completely removed stability for core necro

Read the full patch notes and you'll see it's not specifically targeted at necro btw.

@KrHome.1920 said:How hard is it to understand that looking isolated at one change in a patch with 900 changes and make a suggestion about future viablity is pure nonsense?

Basically this, it's pretty funny seeing how many people read the patch notes for their single class and then decide to complain about their class getting nerfed :p

[Nimon.7840]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:XD they basically completely removed stability for core necro

Read the full patch notes and you'll see it's not specifically targeted at necro btw.

Yes I didn't read all classes. But most of them.But it seems like you didn't read all of them as well. They specifically say, that they are removing stab from necro:

• trait removed
• reaper 3 duration nerfed (cut in half if I remember correctly)
• elite shout duration nerfed

But I specifically was speaking about core necro.They removed stab, removed 1 stunbreak (both at the same time with the rework of the trait)And they increased cooldown of stunbreaks in wvw (while they decrease them in pve, where it's pretty much pointless)

Necro:

• spectral armor 5 seconds cd increase
• spectral walk 10 seconds cd increase
• trail of anguish 15 seconds cd increase

At the same time ele gains stab and lower cooldowns on pretty op stunbreaks

• lightning flash (stunbreak + 900 range teleport)
• eye of the storm (stunbreak for up to 10 people and 3 seconds of superspeed)

There's in some points no clear line in the patch notes!

@KrHome.1920 said:How hard is it to understand that looking isolated at one change in a patch with 900 changes and make a suggestion about future viablity is pure nonsense?

Basically this, it's pretty funny seeing how many people read the patch notes for their single class and then decide to complain about their class getting nerfed :p

[Axl.8924]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:XD they basically completely removed stability for core necro

Read the full patch notes and you'll see it's not specifically targeted at necro btw.

Yes I didn't read all classes. But most of them.But it seems like you didn't read all of them as well. They specifically say, that they are removing stab from necro:

• trait removed
• reaper 3 duration nerfed (cut in half if I remember correctly)
• elite shout duration nerfed

But I specifically was speaking about core necro.They removed stab, removed 1 stunbreak (both at the same time with the rework of the trait)And they increased cooldown of stunbreaks in wvw (while they decrease them in pve, where it's pretty much pointless)

Necro:

• spectral armor 5 seconds cd increase
• spectral walk 10 seconds cd increase
• trail of anguish 15 seconds cd increase

At the same time ele gains stab and lower cooldowns on pretty op stunbreaks

• lightning flash (stunbreak + 900 range teleport)
• eye of the storm (stunbreak for up to 10 people and 3 seconds of superspeed)

There's in some points no clear line in the patch notes!

@KrHome.1920 said:How hard is it to understand that looking isolated at one change in a patch with 900 changes and make a suggestion about future viablity is pure nonsense?

Basically this, it's pretty funny seeing how many people read the patch notes for their single class and then decide to complain about their class getting nerfed :p

Well the eles are very susceptible to dmg I mean they are a hella lot squishier than necros, and some attacks are in melee range.

Lets wait and see maybe things will get better?

[Ghos.1326]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:XD they basically completely removed stability for core necro

Read the full patch notes and you'll see it's not specifically targeted at necro btw.

Yes I didn't read all classes. But most of them.But it seems like you didn't read all of them as well. They specifically say, that they are removing stab from necro:

• trait removed
• reaper 3 duration nerfed (cut in half if I remember correctly)
• elite shout duration nerfed

But I specifically was speaking about core necro.They removed stab, removed 1 stunbreak (both at the same time with the rework of the trait)And they increased cooldown of stunbreaks in wvw (while they decrease them in pve, where it's pretty much pointless)

Necro:

• spectral armor 5 seconds cd increase
• spectral walk 10 seconds cd increase
• trail of anguish 15 seconds cd increase

At the same time ele gains stab and lower cooldowns on pretty op stunbreaks

• lightning flash (stunbreak + 900 range teleport)
• eye of the storm (stunbreak for up to 10 people and 3 seconds of superspeed)

There's in some points no clear line in the patch notes!

@KrHome.1920 said:How hard is it to understand that looking isolated at one change in a patch with 900 changes and make a suggestion about future viablity is pure nonsense?

Basically this, it's pretty funny seeing how many people read the patch notes for their single class and then decide to complain about their class getting nerfed :p

Keep in mind as well, that necromancer is still very survivable. It really doesn't need the stab, especially after these nerfs hit. So, I think it'll be alright.

[Obtena.7952]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:snips

wow that's hilarious.

Hilarious because the joke is on anyone that thinks they justify core necro getting more stability? I agree. I've been laughing for the last 8 years at people that think like that.

Well, lookie there ...

Necromancer has always been designed to be a resilient profession that was light on stability

BANG ... my favourite quote from the upcoming balance patch note for all you people that think Anet doesn't believe classes should be designed with these deficiencies.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:snips

wow that's hilarious.

Hilarious because the joke is on anyone that thinks they justify core necro getting more stability? I agree. I've been laughing for the last 8 years at people that think like that.

Well, lookie there ...

Necromancer has always been designed to be a resilient profession that was light on stability

BANG ... my favourite quote from the upcoming balance patch note for all you people that think Anet doesn't believe classes should be designed with these deficiencies.

Thing is we are not only deficient in stability, we are also deficient in mobility and range pressure and scaling damage negation.As others have mentioned, we got too many glaring deficiencies that combines to make us a punching bag :'(

[Obtena.7952]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:snips

wow that's hilarious.

Hilarious because the joke is on anyone that thinks they justify core necro getting more stability? I agree. I've been laughing for the last 8 years at people that think like that.

Well, lookie there ...

Necromancer has always been designed to be a resilient profession that was light on stability

BANG ... my favourite quote from the upcoming balance patch note for all you people that think Anet doesn't believe classes should be designed with these deficiencies.

Thing is we are not only deficient in stability, we are also deficient in mobility and range pressure and scaling damage negation.As others have mentioned, we got too many glaring deficiencies that combines to make us a punching bag :'(

Don't worry, Anet might come and tell you that this is also intended and why next time they do a big patch. You see, the point is that no one should conclude that these gaps aren't intended, not even the gap where you have TOO many glaring deficiencies; it's completely reasonable and possible this is also intended to offer players a class to give them that challenge.

Why is this reasonable? Because you have class choice. If the class is hard because it's deficient, don't assume that's an oversight. Just assume it's because you have other options available to you that aren't as hard.

[Yasai.3549]

Just let Necros use Utility in Shroud then :^)

Necros have many powerful stunbreaks and a pretty good teleport if yu know how to play with them, the problem is actually being able to use them while in yur power state (aka. Shroud)If yur able to use Utilities in Shroud, Necros would be super powerful and we won't need to have this discussion.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:snips

wow that's hilarious.

Hilarious because the joke is on anyone that thinks they justify core necro getting more stability? I agree. I've been laughing for the last 8 years at people that think like that.

Well, lookie there ...

Necromancer has always been designed to be a resilient profession that was light on stability

BANG ... my favourite quote from the upcoming balance patch note for all you people that think Anet doesn't believe classes should be designed with these deficiencies.

Thing is we are not only deficient in stability, we are also deficient in mobility and range pressure and scaling damage negation.As others have mentioned, we got too many glaring deficiencies that combines to make us a punching bag :'(

Don't worry, Anet might come and tell you that this is also intended and why next time they do a big patch. You see, the point is that no one should conclude that these gaps aren't intended, not even the gap where you have TOO many glaring deficiencies; it's completely reasonable and possible this is also intended to offer players a class to give them that challenge.

Why is this reasonable? Because you have class choice. If the class is hard because it's deficient, don't assume that's an oversight. Just assume it's because you have other options available to you that aren't as hard.

I like your point on making things more challenging for us in those areas.And I accept it.Challenges makes things more fun.And when we overcome challenges, the harder the challenges, the sweeter the satisfaction.

[Obtena.7952]

Hey, that's the whole reason any Game dev would make different classes with various levels of capability. I'm actually glad we have that choice because meaningful choices are better than just name differences.

[Obtena.7952]

@Yasai.3549 said:Just let Necros use Utility in Shroud then :^)

Necros have many powerful stunbreaks and a pretty good teleport if yu know how to play with them, the problem is actually being able to use them while in yur power state (aka. Shroud)If yur able to use Utilities in Shroud, Necros would be super powerful and we won't need to have this discussion.

Well, that's the point isn't it? That's where skill plays a factor. I disagree we should get utilities in Shroud ... unless your aim is to just take a challenging class and dumb it down. Based on what I see, that's not the goal Anet has for this class offering.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

apparently 1 or 2 stax will braek gaem

[claytonmorby.3751]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:Just let Necros use Utility in Shroud then :^)

Necros have many powerful stunbreaks and a pretty good teleport if yu know how to play with them, the problem is actually being able to use them while in yur power state (aka. Shroud)If yur able to use Utilities in Shroud, Necros would be super powerful and we won't need to have this discussion.

Well, that's the point isn't it? That's where skill plays a factor. I disagree we should get utilities in Shroud ... unless your aim is to just take a challenging class and dumb it down. Based on what I see, that's not the goal Anet has for this class offering.

Goodness, I've never seen someone shill so hard for a "developer's vision". You've made good points in this thread, but it's drowned out by you shouting down people by just saying they're wrong, and how "evolved" your way of thinking is.

[Axl.8924]

Well, they did say part of the vision is no stab sucks for us. But at least now dmg is more manageable to deal with as a damage soaker class.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

@"Axl.8924" said:Well, they did say part of the vision is no stab sucks for us. But at least now dmg is more manageable to deal with as a damage soaker class.

They screwed up royally is what they did.

The proof of that is in their own words: "Necro was always designed as a profession light on stability".

Too bad they don't seem to understand them. The real truth behind them is glaringly obvious to anyone that plays core necro:The cc weakness was always there and never went away. There was no need to nerf stunbreak/stab access as there never was any huge overbuffing of the profession in this regard in the first place. The spvp scene shows it the best - no other profession has such clear and widely known counter mesure like necro's "cc + dogpile" counter tactic.

Now they say "but, but, but durability!!". Durability is useless if you're not allowed to act. And having larger windups on cc for everyone does not solve it as necro's problem is not the time to use defensive measures vs cc, but their extremely small amount (no blocks/evades/invulnies....2 standard dodges at best).Not to mention this insulting claim of having other stunbreaks buffed .. in pve only. The last place where necro genuinely suffers from cc abuse and needs more tools to actually stay in the fight standing and not feel proud for taking 3s longer to kill when cc chained into oblivion.

Not to mention that this "balance" kills power core necros in competitive. With foot in the grave a necro could whip out a dagger and go in for some melee. Now it'll be literally unplayable...

[Anchoku.8142]

If they delete damage from control effects, it is a buff to shroud up-time.

However, I suspect shroud will be nerfed, too.

[Obtena.7952]

@claytonmorby.3751 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:Just let Necros use Utility in Shroud then :^)

Necros have many powerful stunbreaks and a pretty good teleport if yu know how to play with them, the problem is actually being able to use them while in yur power state (aka. Shroud)If yur able to use Utilities in Shroud, Necros would be super powerful and we won't need to have this discussion.

Well, that's the point isn't it? That's where skill plays a factor. I disagree we should get utilities in Shroud ... unless your aim is to just take a challenging class and dumb it down. Based on what I see, that's not the goal Anet has for this class offering.

Goodness, I've never seen someone shill so hard for a "developer's vision". You've made good points in this thread, but it's drowned out by you shouting down people by just saying they're wrong, and how "evolved" your way of thinking is.

But you HAVE seen people shill even harder for their own ideas for what the game should be that don't even make sense, I can gaurentee you that. Seems to me that if your going to shill something, it's not the random idea from average joe with an agenda to push ... it's the thing that is actually real. I guess it is easier to point out the guy that credits himself with understanding the game better than those that don't that can't see it. I don't expect people to stop complaining Anet is wrong here or that Anet has no clue, blah, blah ... it's already happening. What they don't get is that it's not about right or wrong; it's about how Anet wants the game to work.

[KrHome.1920]

@Anchoku.8142 said:If they delete damage from control effects, it is a buff to shroud up-time.

However, I suspect shroud will be nerfed, too.Trust me when you see how low our damage has become next tuesday you will be happy about any defense you have. The spectral armor and walk nerfs should also not be forgotten. These two skills are must picks for most competitive builds and our sustain is tied directly to them.

Perspective shift: the compensation of dealing 30% less damage to us ist just kiting reaper shroud for additional 6 seconds. Kiting counters our whole sustain mechanic. Don't forget that. Against scourges it's even easier since no one attacks with burst skills in that 4 seconds when barrier is up. Regarding core even the warrior hammer that every warrior now complains about that 3 out of 5 skills don't deal any damage anymore will shut it down completely.

[KrHome.1920]

double post

[Sobx.1758]

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Actually i must go bit easier on scourge. He does have kitten foot in the grave due to his shroud massive cooldown. Still core necro (who's supposed to be the tankiest of the bunch) should have better anti-cc options.The tankiest should have the least stability access.

Core has the most sustain of the necro specs. It has good ranged pressure and is very duarable. Its should not have equal amounts of anti cc defense like the elite specs.

No. The tankiest should have the least damage and that's the case with core. I don't buy that scourge has less damage then core, sorry. Also tanky usually also includes being resiliant to cc. Who saw a tank that goes face down to ground from slightest fart? That's squish dpser's trait that has to use mobility and careful positioning to avoid cc. Low damage but tanky specs should be the last guys to be ragdolls.

You already have easy access to stab, you choose to use something else and now you want to add a free stab on top of "your desired build". That makes no sense.

Stability stacks, now, and some skills remove multiple stacks. Stab is also a boon and is vulnerable to stripping and corruption. The use of stab and control effects have changed a lot over the years.

There has been power creep around hard CC to account for.

How is that a direct response to what I said?

I was trying to point out, obliquely and gently, that you do not seem to understand the profession or state of the game as well as you think.

So, uh... you were saying?

@Obtena.7952 said:Hey, that's the whole reason any Game dev would make different classes with various levels of capability. I'm actually glad we have that choice because meaningful choices are better than just name differences.

Yup, I've been saying that for quite some time now and it's interesting how so many people still fail to understand that.

[Shroud.2307]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:If they delete damage from control effects, it is a buff to shroud up-time.

However, I suspect shroud will be nerfed, too.Trust me when you see how low our damage has become next tuesday you will be happy about any defense you have. The spectral armor and walk nerfs should also not be forgotten. These two skills are must picks for most competitive builds and our sustain is tied directly to them.

Perspective shift: the compensation of dealing 30% less damage to us ist just kiting reaper shroud for additional 6 seconds. Kiting counters our whole sustain mechanic. Don't forget that. Against scourges it's even easier since no one attacks with burst skills in that 4 seconds when barrier is up. Regarding core even the warrior hammer that every warrior now complains about that 3 out of 5 skills don't deal any damage anymore will shut it down completely.

Gonna cry if my Dreadmancer doesn't work anymore. I love many different builds and of course, Necro in general, but core power Necro is my favorite by far and long... I know Dread is getting spanked pretty hard, as are a lot of important defensive skills so, I'm still quite scared for how this will turn out. There has only been one time in the history of GW2 that I briefly gave up on Necro entirely and that was for a few months after PoF. I really hope this patch doesn't put me in that position again.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Obtena.7952 said:it's about how Anet wants the game to work.

anet has abandoned their own design philosophy further and further with each expac. you're the only one arguing to maintain this philosophy. does it make sense for necro, the class with the lowest mobility, to have no stab? cuz shroud isn't much of an argument since it routinely fails to work in a number of scenarios and is one of the specs that is hard countered the hardest out of all of them. besides, are you claiming to speak for anet? who are you to say what they will and will not do lol.