Why with the next balace patch Thief remain the strongest class while others will die?

[Wayne.6253]

Actually we have 3 classes (thief, guardian and revenant) that are completely inside the meta, in specially thief that is the strongest.Why after a balance patch these 3 classes will be more and more inside the meta on the contrary of others that will dye as the Fireweaver and Mirage ?I understand that the damage and healing of all classes has been nerfed, but it doesn't mean "balance" because you touched very badly some important skills and mechanics that can give a sense to a specific profession.I think that in pvp you should be able to play with the same potential all the classes, and I don't like to hear "you can play it but you cant have the same power of others" because no one loves to plays somenthing that can't help the party, in particular in ranked matches.So I agree with the general nerf of power/damage/healing of all profession, but I think you should review the nerfing of some traits and utility, or if you want nerf, do it with sense and complete the nerfing also to the profession like thief and firebrand.

I hope that the balance will be rework soon.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Dunno, d/p was kinda limited for a while. It was only good since people decided to take assassins signet. I doubt it could kill anything apart from other glass builds with out it, so with the aa (again)/smoke screen/shadowshot ini cost nerf, the daredevil version wont even be taking pi now, not even on s/p will. But yes, it still retains its mobility.

[Sindrener.1592]

You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta?

[Quadox.7834]

@"bluri.2653" said:You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta?

No I think he is saying "why is thief, which was already one of the strongest in the meta, getting nerfed less than others, thereby solidifying it "more and more inside the meta" ".

[PLS.4095]

Defend weaver and mirage, we can see the type of player you are !

[Koen.1327]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@"bluri.2653" said:You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta?

No I think he is saying "why is thief, which was already one of the strongest in the meta, getting nerfed less than others, thereby solidifying it "more and more inside the meta" ".

which is a little contradicting, thief is one of the strongest in the meta because mirage and weaver are metathief wasn't the strongest when scourge+fb was meta, and it won't be strong in the meta if nec+guard+war will define it

[Quadox.7834]

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@"bluri.2653" said:You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta?

No I think he is saying "why is thief, which was already one of the strongest in the meta, getting nerfed less than others, thereby solidifying it "more and more inside the meta" ".

which is a little contradicting, thief is one of the strongest in the meta because mirage and weaver are metathief wasn't the strongest when scourge+fb was meta, and it won't be strong in the meta if nec+guard+war will define it

Not saying he is right or wrong just trying to clarify the thought process.

[Koen.1327]

fair enoughi think the buff to choking gas is stupid (unblockable daze on hit) - with the remove of lots of stab this will be quite spammy. Not sure if 4 to 6 ini is gonna make difference because you only need 1 to hit nowOther than that thief got lots of nerfs

[Wayne.6253]

@bluri.2653 said:You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta?

i expect an mmo with 9 different classes with elite specs where at least 1 of the spec of every classes is in meta. So 9 build in meta ;)

[Don Vega Van Kain.9842]

@"Wayne.6253" said:Actually we have 3 classes (thief, guardian and revenant) that are completely inside the meta, in specially thief that is the strongest.Why after a balance patch these 3 classes will be more and more inside the meta on the contrary of others that will dye as the Fireweaver and Mirage ?I understand that the damage and healing of all classes has been nerfed, but it doesn't mean "balance" because you touched very badly some important skills and mechanics that can give a sense to a specific profession.I think that in pvp you should be able to play with the same potential all the classes, and I don't like to hear "you can play it but you cant have the same power of others" because no one loves to plays somenthing that can't help the party, in particular in ranked matches.So I agree with the general nerf of power/damage/healing of all profession, but I think you should review the nerfing of some traits and utility, or if you want nerf, do it with sense and complete the nerfing also to the profession like thief and firebrand.

I hope that the balance will be rework soon.

First off, Fire weaver will still ok in 1 vs 1 but not anymore fighting vs 2-3 ppl and stay alive and yep, the 1 dodge profession will be anihilate.

Thief !!! I don't remember well 2-3 days ago, i've been in twitch between 17:00 and 18:00, 8-9 GW2 PVP streamers, 4 thief's main....maybe a part of the answer and why @net favors the thief..... at least for the moment. :/

[Sindrener.1592]

@Wayne.6253 said:

@"bluri.2653" said:You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta?

i expect an mmo with 9 different classes with elite specs where at least 1 of the spec of every classes is in meta. So 9 build in meta ;)

Which makes no sense.

Meta in gw2 is defined on all classes performance, including thief.

And how can you say thief was one of the strongest in meta? In NA rev/fb/weav is the highest populated one in tourneys compared to thief for example? What stats do you have thief performs better than other classes in ranked? You have no facts or stats to back you up.

The only region tournament wise that has higher representation of thief is EUl

Source https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1143819#Comment_1143819

Even holo has a higher number in NA compared to thief.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@bluri.2653 said:

@Wayne.6253 said:

@bluri.2653 said:You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta?

i expect an mmo with 9 different classes with elite specs where at least 1 of the spec of every classes is in meta. So 9 build in meta ;)

Which makes no sense.

Meta in gw2 is defined on all classes performance, including thief.

And how can you say thief was one of the strongest in meta? In NA rev/fb/weav is the highest populated one in tourneys compared to thief for example? What stats do you have thief performs better than other classes in ranked? You have no facts or stats to back you up.

The only region tournament wise that has higher representation of thief is EUl

Source

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1143819#Comment_1143819

Even holo has a higher number in NA compared to thief.

The facts he has are the same facts most the community go off of which are all the thief complaint threads spammed in the forums which he's now bandwagoning as most seem to do.

[GoQ.1048]

the 4 thiefs per match agree

[Burnfall.9573]

@shinta.8906 said:the 4 thiefs per match agree

+1

Chaos Is Coming

-Thief Profession will assure the death of the game-

[felix.2386]

Well i agree with u , this is not good.

but that's not the point of this patch.this patch is not about balancing classes, but balancing the game, which brings down overall stats.so what's good will still be good, just the game overall will have a game play shift..which will define new meta..

btw that mAT population thread is pointless, which included 2 October and 2 November stats, that's before meta swifts, of course Holo is going to be higher number then thief, even EU hardly had thief for october and november, it's after december they shifted to double thieves for two months.

and i'm not sure why NA can play double mirage, if thief counters mesmer so much like everybody says, this is the part where i don't understsand.but i doubt NA seriously considered best team comp, just playing what's the cheesiest and stack them and just find who's online

[otto.5684]

Meta probably guardian and thieves. Maybe a warrior and rev. Do not see a place for anything else.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Wayne.6253 said:

@bluri.2653 said:You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta?

i expect an mmo with 9 different classes with elite specs where at least 1 of the spec of every classes is in meta. So 9 build in meta ;)

No such mmo exists.

Meta shifts.

Tiers will always be a thing because people figure out different things afte erg big changes.

If your class can be B+, be grateful.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Wayne.6253 said:

@bluri.2653 said:You expect a mmo consisting of 9 different classes with elite specs and all be on the same footing and fit the meta?

i expect an mmo with 9 different classes with elite specs where at least 1 of the spec of every classes is in meta. So 9 build in meta ;)

No such mmo exists.

Meta shifts.

Tiers will always be a thing because people figure out different things afte erg big changes.

If your class can be B+, be grateful.

nah, every class should have S tier build.if they dont have it, developers failed. simple as that.

example since Im lazy, nobody played core necro.it got some small cooldown reductions here and there, boom its good A-S tier build.If something is too strong slight nerf, something too weak. slight buff.sooner or later you make things balanced-ish.Druid was dead in pvp, did they try anything? even reduce cooldowns by 10%, upp the damage by small ammounts?increase CC by trivial numbers? increase aoe from skills? up the mobility? anything?I do hope they will chisel out the balance sculpture after the hammer dropped, and not leave it as it was.where over half the specs are druid

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I don't care whats meta as long as its not teefnah jknah i'm notidk

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:If your class can be B+, be grateful.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:nah, every class should have S tier build.if they dont have it, developers failed. simple as that.

No to both of these.

There will always be low and high tier classes.No class should be so low that it is mechanically -impossible- to create a build that cannot matchup a high tier class, however.

The largest you should let a class imbalance get is 60/40 in a particular classes favor. Exceptionally skilled low tiers should be able to beat average or inexperienced mid and high tiers, and at least put up a fight against players in their skill bracket. For those matchups of equal skill where your class is disadvantaged, that's what counterpicks/secondary characters of a different class that covers your weaknesses are for. Against people that are fresh off of metabattle pressing buttons, however, your weird necro build should work.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:If your class can be B+, be grateful.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:nah, every class should have S tier build.if they dont have it, developers failed. simple as that.

No to both of these.

There will always be low and high tier classes.No class should be so low that it is mechanically -impossible- to create a build that cannot matchup a high tier class, however.

The largest you should let a class imbalance get is 60/40 in a particular classes favor. Exceptionally skilled low tiers should be able to beat average or inexperienced mid and high tiers, and at least put up a fight against players in their skill bracket. For those matchups of equal skill where your class is disadvantaged, that's what counterpicks/secondary characters of a different class that covers your weaknesses are for. Against people that are fresh off of metabattle pressing buttons, however, your weird necro build should work.

has the bar dropped so low that every class is not even expected to be really good?I feel really old now, I feel like old man looking and young peoples lowered standars.im fucking 20 and you make me feel old.FeelsWeirdMan

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:has the bar dropped so low that every class is not even expected to be really good?

We cant go by any arbitrary definition of 'really good' because it is always relative. The meta changes and classes become good or bad based on whichever class is the best/easiest/strongest/most versatile.

The only way we can approach the definition above is if every class can fight every other class to some extent without being a complete shutdown due to forces beyond the player's control. (mechanical disparity). Even if we get there, people won't agree that we have, so the only thing we should be focusing on is "If this class/spec main complains about class/spec x, is there a kit or playstyle the class/spec main can play that lets him challenge class/spec x and have some chance of winning?" If any matchup is a wash we haven't balanced.

You and I want the same thing, but everyone on these forums has a different idea of what every class being good is, and most of them involve having overwhelming mechanical advantage in the current meta for the class they play. S tiers by definition only arise because they are by nature better mechanically to play in more situations.

I feel really old now, I feel like old man looking and young peoples lowered standars.im kitten 20 and you make me feel old.FeelsWeirdMan

Not low, just realistic~

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

It's karma.

Remember when Thief was garbage for like 10 years and everyone kept saying "buff thief"?

Well that's happening now.

[Avatar.3568]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:It's karma.

Remember when Thief was garbage for like 10 years and everyone kept saying "buff thief"?

Well that's happening now.

No I do not remember

[Widmo.3186]

That's okay, let all those boiz switch from their current classes to teef.Watching all those newcomers struggling with teef and pretending they know what they're doing is always funny and entertaining.