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Roaming is not a thing and it hasn't been a thing for the past four years


Yugz.6925

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A shit ton of problems are up in roaming, even though the big patch appeared, the powercreep is still sooooo high.More than that, the issues about perma stealth and all have been "fixed" by using sentinels, which now delete all stealth, even 3 sec ones, revealing you in so you can't stealth anymore.I've been a huge fan of thief and due to other player abusing stealth I just can't play anymore, even if my way of getting stealth stands from using cloak and dagger (which is already not a rewarding spell), I get insta-revealed.The game has truly gone dumb for the past few years, and I don't see a way for them to come back. It may appear at first to be a whiny post, but it really isn't.I am not complaining about a situation I recently witnessed. I am complaining about the path the game decided to take.

I think that the gamemode is just dead and can only be enjoyed by being part of a zerg (mounts did not help at all). Open world pvp was just the best GW2 feature to me, and to a lot of other players by the way, and it is just not a thing anymore. Burst or get bursted, not my jam, and not anyone that has decent expectations for a game jam.

I have been posting for the past years ways for the game to be more "balanced" in WvW, more enjoyable, and I am done with it. As long as we will stick to PvE stats, runes, sigils, to pointless mounts, to overpowered specs such as deadeye which is absolute cancer in this gamemode since it is only about opening a fight and disengaging, to pewpew rangers and to all that crap we won't ever have an enjoyable gamemode.

Think about it. Let me give you an exemple on how Anet balances stuff : why do that many classes have now a spell which reveals ? It wasn't the case few years ago ... The reason obviously is to counter permastealth and constant disengage from thieves. Instead of balancing this cancerous spec (deadeye and shadow arts), they gave a spell to destroy every single aspect of thieves to certain classes. What does it leads to ? Well actually, classes that can destroy thieves if they target it before they do, and other ones that just can't do anything about it.So they added reveal on sentinels, and instead of making it so it reveals people that have been in stealth for the past 4 seconds or so, they make it happen randomly, so you can get revealed after landing a cloak and dagger, not even abusing the overpowered specs.Conclusion ? Thieves are forced to play retarded specs, other classes have to play retarded spells to counter them, nobody has fun but hey, at least Anet "tried" to fix things.

It is really a shame that such a good game turned so bad, and I truly mean it.

I'll leave it to you linking some old footage of GW2 roaming, so you can compare to new ones that are just "explosive montage and how to oneshot people by spamming your cancerous spells".

I'd love to see what are your thoughts about it, and I truly believe that I'm not the only folk (maybe the only folk left) that can remember when WvW was still a fun gamemode (seriously I don't even bring my friend to WvW so they don't quit the game).

PS : I see you coming "learn to play before complaining", well, know that I've been plat3 (1700 rating average) in sPvP every single season I played and I have more than 4k hours on Thief. Not trying to brag about anything, but don't give me the "you have to learn" talk. Thanks

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I think you are doing yourself a disservice here by muddling your own arguments. There is merit to some of the things that you are saying but then you are reaching into other things that take attention away from what you just said. The Deadeye (or the especs in general) is a problem and one of the problems it creates is that it takes from the core specs? Sure, I think most people would agree.

Roaming being dead and there only being zerging? I don't know man, I think people who only play a limited aspect of the game mode also tend to develop very limited perspectives on the other things that go on in the mode. Zerging has also been hit by waves of OP condi burst and OP power burst. The current situation we see with another wave of certain condi builds being OP derives from a patch that was meant as a starting point towards what you are hoping for. The ongoing balance project has the goal of restoring balance more akin to vanilla. As such, it becomes rather irrelevant to complain about the current balance which has not yet existed for a month in comparison to the 2-3 year rut before. They are (most likely) working on bringing down a number of ways to stack condis for the next patch.

So all in all, my advice would be to consider that the damage balance has affected both smaller scale and larger in the same broad strokes even if it may not have affected them exactly the same. Things may not be as bad for roaming as you are suggesting and things may not be as well for zerging as you are suggesting. It's rather a question of things being better or worse and trying to adapt best as you can. Has balance been rather poor since the february 2017 patch? Sure. I think alot of people here would agree with you on that. Is condi currently worse balanced than power? Sure, I think most people would agree with you on that, but presumably Anet are working on that right now. Are the especs affecting core? Sure, but there is an ongoing balance effort on that as well (which, in my opinion, has not been very reassuring but that is another discussion) and it should be noted that some especs are obscuring their corespecs far more than than others. There is a rather big difference between how the especs were handled among different classes: regarding the power of their unique mechanics, weapons, utilities and traits or their general identity and design (whether they do what was likely intended or not, whether they are alternative roles, sidegrides in a role or straight upgrades etc.).

Are Deadeyes and pockets an issue for smaller scale? Sure, the Deadeye is what is driving the demand on pocket healers. Are pocket healers necessarily an issue in and of themselves? I'm not sure if I would agree with that, I kind of enjoy that smaller scale is diversifying into more of the larger scale roles and 1vX should be difficult. It is fine as long as healing is not poorly balanced relative damage but I wouldn't say it is and the complaints comming from solo players stems more from them not being used to dealing with healers or that it makes it more difficult dealing with eg., 1v2's vs. less experienced players. That doesn't necessarily mean that there is an actual balance problem afoot.

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Open world pvp has never been a thing in GW2, you're playing a larger scale matchup so you know that much of the map travel and density is going to reflect points and what color a corner of a map is. It also means that the majority of people running around are likely involved in actually winning the match. So while you will take your time roaming most people are running to play a points game and to pick up bags at a way better rate than your roaming and having their map corner Marked and trapped so you can't just linger around picking them off at the nearest camp or around spawn is in their interest. I'm not trashing your playstyle, I mostly float around myself for lack of actual open world pvp, but it is what it is.

I make sure to fire off a Death's Judgment or I tag someone with a skill or something before an area reveal marks me so I'm only under my own self reveal. That means no real long range stealth for map travel in that area and not much prep time for positioning in stealth, but if that's hurting you you're playing an attrition game by yourself. Save the long range stealth for more neutral maps and areas. Builds after update are mostly not bad, maybe more people are using pulls lately....I don't feel a huge change really.

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Go and roam with an actual class instead of pretending to roam if all yu do is stalk people in stealth.

Any Thief worth their salt can fight even with Marked buff on them, or at least know how to disengage 5000 range away with their signature shortbow spam.

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@"Yasai.3549" said:Go and roam with an actual class instead of pretending to roam if all yu do is stalk people in stealth.

Any Thief worth their salt can fight even with Marked buff on them, or at least know how to disengage 5000 range away with their signature shortbow spam.

I encourage you to read my post-scriptum : " I see you coming "learn to play before complaining", well, know that I've been plat3 (1700 rating average) in sPvP every single season I played and I have more than 4k hours on Thief. "Being a top 200- player every season makes me believe that I know what I'm doing when I play my class, and I do not need a "go get skilled" speech.

As I told you again, the way you see thief being just a stealth ganker/disengager is the whole point that I'm trying to point out in this post : classes have become retarded, the gameplay has been so oriented into burst and disengage that most of the gameplay has just turned into garbage.


@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:Roaming isnt a thing? What have I been doing every day then?

I roamed as well for the past week. And it is still playable. Is it still interessant though ? I don't really think so.What I mean is that the gamemode no longer uses our great combat system and instead focuses on insane bursts on very short windows, making the fights kinda burst or run.


@"Justine.6351" said:Sentries don't reveal. They give a debuff that reveals you after being stealthed for more than 2 seconds.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marked_(Sentry)

Glad to know that. Well this is the problem too. I mean, cloak and dagger for instance stealthes you for three seconds, and you get a 3 sec revealed buff before the stealth ends. I mean, this is truly dumb, and it does not prevent from deadeye or dagger pistol thieves to perma stealth if they get the sentries.This is a terrible way of fixing things, and I'm absolutly scandalized that they did it that way.

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@"Yugz.6925" said:A kitten ton of problems are up in roaming, even though the big patch appeared, the powercreep is still sooooo high.More than that, the issues about perma stealth and all have been "fixed" by using sentinels, which now delete all stealth, even 3 sec ones, revealing you in so you can't stealth anymore.I've been a huge fan of thief and due to other player abusing stealth I just can't play anymore, even if my way of getting stealth stands from using cloak and dagger (which is already not a rewarding spell), I get insta-revealed.The game has truly gone dumb for the past few years, and I don't see a way for them to come back. It may appear at first to be a whiny post, but it really isn't.I am not complaining about a situation I recently witnessed. I am complaining about the path the game decided to take.

I think that the gamemode is just dead and can only be enjoyed by being part of a zerg (mounts did not help at all). Open world pvp was just the best GW2 feature to me, and to a lot of other players by the way, and it is just not a thing anymore. Burst or get bursted, not my jam, and not anyone that has decent expectations for a game jam.

I have been posting for the past years ways for the game to be more "balanced" in WvW, more enjoyable, and I am done with it. As long as we will stick to PvE stats, runes, sigils, to pointless mounts, to overpowered specs such as deadeye which is absolute cancer in this gamemode since it is only about opening a fight and disengaging, to pewpew rangers and to all that kitten we won't ever have an enjoyable gamemode.

Think about it. Let me give you an exemple on how Anet balances stuff : why do that many classes have now a spell which reveals ? It wasn't the case few years ago ... The reason obviously is to counter permastealth and constant disengage from thieves. Instead of balancing this cancerous spec (deadeye and shadow arts), they gave a spell to destroy every single aspect of thieves to certain classes. What does it leads to ? Well actually, classes that can destroy thieves if they target it before they do, and other ones that just can't do anything about it.So they added reveal on sentinels, and instead of making it so it reveals people that have been in stealth for the past 4 seconds or so, they make it happen randomly, so you can get revealed after landing a cloak and dagger, not even abusing the overpowered specs.Conclusion ? Thieves are forced to play kitten specs, other classes have to play kitten spells to counter them, nobody has fun but hey, at least Anet "tried" to fix things.

It is really a shame that such a good game turned so bad, and I truly mean it.

I'll leave it to you linking some old footage of GW2 roaming, so you can compare to new ones that are just "explosive montage and how to oneshot people by spamming your cancerous spells".

I'd love to see what are your thoughts about it, and I truly believe that I'm not the only folk (maybe the only folk left) that can remember when WvW was still a fun gamemode (seriously I don't even bring my friend to WvW so they don't quit the game).

PS : I see you coming "learn to play before complaining", well, know that I've been plat3 (1700 rating average) in sPvP every single season I played and I have more than 4k hours on Thief. Not trying to brag about anything, but don't give me the "you have to learn" talk. Thanks

U will get only a shitstorm in here bc u r pro teef ... wvw is a pure clownfiesta anyway.

I totally agree that these anti teef mech. r the most kitten thing I have ever seen implemented into gw2 since release.

For me it is totally clear that when these kinds of mech. exist they should effect other classes as well.

Mes = no clone spamRamger = no petGuardian = no boon spamEngi = no kit ........

As u can see these mech. only hit teef hard and still the forum are meme all way long

Welcome to the clown fiesta

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@Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

@"Yugz.6925" said:A kitten ton of problems are up in roaming, even though the big patch appeared, the powercreep is still sooooo high.More than that, the issues about perma stealth and all have been "fixed" by using sentinels, which now delete all stealth, even 3 sec ones, revealing you in so you can't stealth anymore.I've been a huge fan of thief and due to other player abusing stealth I just can't play anymore, even if my way of getting stealth stands from using cloak and dagger (which is already not a rewarding spell), I get insta-revealed.The game has truly gone dumb for the past few years, and I don't see a way for them to come back. It may appear at first to be a whiny post, but it really isn't.I am not complaining about a situation I recently witnessed. I am complaining about the path the game decided to take.

I think that the gamemode is just dead and can only be enjoyed by being part of a zerg (mounts did not help at all). Open world pvp was just the best GW2 feature to me, and to a lot of other players by the way, and it is just not a thing anymore. Burst or get bursted, not my jam, and not anyone that has decent expectations for a game jam.

I have been posting for the past years ways for the game to be more "balanced" in WvW, more enjoyable, and I am done with it. As long as we will stick to PvE stats, runes, sigils, to pointless mounts, to overpowered specs such as deadeye which is absolute cancer in this gamemode since it is only about opening a fight and disengaging, to pewpew rangers and to all that kitten we won't ever have an enjoyable gamemode.

Think about it. Let me give you an exemple on how Anet balances stuff : why do that many classes have now a spell which reveals ? It wasn't the case few years ago ... The reason obviously is to counter permastealth and constant disengage from thieves. Instead of balancing this cancerous spec (deadeye and shadow arts), they gave a spell to destroy every single aspect of thieves to certain classes. What does it leads to ? Well actually, classes that can destroy thieves if they target it before they do, and other ones that just can't do anything about it.So they added reveal on sentinels, and instead of making it so it reveals people that have been in stealth for the past 4 seconds or so, they make it happen randomly, so you can get revealed after landing a cloak and dagger, not even abusing the overpowered specs.Conclusion ? Thieves are forced to play kitten specs, other classes have to play kitten spells to counter them, nobody has fun but hey, at least Anet "tried" to fix things.

It is really a shame that such a good game turned so bad, and I truly mean it.

I'll leave it to you linking some old footage of GW2 roaming, so you can compare to new ones that are just "explosive montage and how to oneshot people by spamming your cancerous spells".

I'd love to see what are your thoughts about it, and I truly believe that I'm not the only folk (maybe the only folk left) that can remember when WvW was still a fun gamemode (seriously I don't even bring my friend to WvW so they don't quit the game).

PS : I see you coming "learn to play before complaining", well, know that I've been plat3 (1700 rating average) in sPvP every single season I played and I have more than 4k hours on Thief. Not trying to brag about anything, but don't give me the "you have to learn" talk. Thanks

U will get only a kitten in here bc u r pro teef ... wvw is a pure clownfiesta anyway.

I totally agree that these anti teef mech. r the most kitten thing I have ever seen implemented into gw2 since release.

Can you stop pretending that the whole map is covered in sentries? More than 90% of the maps are NOT covered in their reveal range and even then it only activates if you stealth for more than 2 seconds... inside their extremely limited radius. And if you fight in and around an enemy tower with watch tower slotted... what the hell are you doing there in the first place?

The reveal was a bandaid fix and it is so inconsequential, yet punishes really really blind people who do not think for more than 1 second ahead.

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@"Blocki.4931" said:Can you stop pretending that the whole map is covered in sentries? More than 90% of the maps are NOT covered in their reveal range and even then it only activates if you stealth for more than 2 seconds... inside their extremely limited radius. And if you fight in and around an enemy tower with watch tower slotted... what the hell are you doing there in the first place?

The reveal was a bandaid fix and it is so inconsequential, yet punishes really really blind people who do not think for more than 1 second ahead.

Just open your Eternal Battleground map and you at the spots where there aren't any sentries/towers.Anyway, people flee from fights using mounts dragging people on sentries so...

I can also play S/D Thief. And well how it is experienced from the other side ? "Spam dodge cancer thief" and trust me, I get it. The game is just not fun anymore, the specs are fucked up, the powercreep is still insanely high and I don't see any way they can fix it. It has gone too far.

I guess I'm just done here, the community is uncomprehensive, really, I feel like people don't quite get the game the way I do (and the way most decent players did (but sadly they all quit)). It is people that can't play it properly that are glad it is fucked up, so they can kill people and enjoy their one button dopamine.I really mean it.

I asked in some previous post few mounths ago what people are looking for in the WvW gamemode, and most of the answer were "exclusive skins" or "rewards". I don't quite get it anymore, I guess the game stopped being designed for people that actually enjoyed the combat system.

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@Blocki.4931 said:

@"Yugz.6925" said:A kitten ton of problems are up in roaming, even though the big patch appeared, the powercreep is still sooooo high.More than that, the issues about perma stealth and all have been "fixed" by using sentinels, which now delete all stealth, even 3 sec ones, revealing you in so you can't stealth anymore.I've been a huge fan of thief and due to other player abusing stealth I just can't play anymore, even if my way of getting stealth stands from using cloak and dagger (which is already not a rewarding spell), I get insta-revealed.The game has truly gone dumb for the past few years, and I don't see a way for them to come back. It may appear at first to be a whiny post, but it really isn't.I am not complaining about a situation I recently witnessed. I am complaining about the path the game decided to take.

I think that the gamemode is just dead and can only be enjoyed by being part of a zerg (mounts did not help at all). Open world pvp was just the best GW2 feature to me, and to a lot of other players by the way, and it is just not a thing anymore. Burst or get bursted, not my jam, and not anyone that has decent expectations for a game jam.

I have been posting for the past years ways for the game to be more "balanced" in WvW, more enjoyable, and I am done with it. As long as we will stick to PvE stats, runes, sigils, to pointless mounts, to overpowered specs such as deadeye which is absolute cancer in this gamemode since it is only about opening a fight and disengaging, to pewpew rangers and to all that kitten we won't ever have an enjoyable gamemode.

Think about it. Let me give you an exemple on how Anet balances stuff : why do that many classes have now a spell which reveals ? It wasn't the case few years ago ... The reason obviously is to counter permastealth and constant disengage from thieves. Instead of balancing this cancerous spec (deadeye and shadow arts), they gave a spell to destroy every single aspect of thieves to certain classes. What does it leads to ? Well actually, classes that can destroy thieves if they target it before they do, and other ones that just can't do anything about it.So they added reveal on sentinels, and instead of making it so it reveals people that have been in stealth for the past 4 seconds or so, they make it happen randomly, so you can get revealed after landing a cloak and dagger, not even abusing the overpowered specs.Conclusion ? Thieves are forced to play kitten specs, other classes have to play kitten spells to counter them, nobody has fun but hey, at least Anet "tried" to fix things.

It is really a shame that such a good game turned so bad, and I truly mean it.

I'll leave it to you linking some old footage of GW2 roaming, so you can compare to new ones that are just "explosive montage and how to oneshot people by spamming your cancerous spells".

I'd love to see what are your thoughts about it, and I truly believe that I'm not the only folk (maybe the only folk left) that can remember when WvW was still a fun gamemode (seriously I don't even bring my friend to WvW so they don't quit the game).

PS : I see you coming "learn to play before complaining", well, know that I've been plat3 (1700 rating average) in sPvP every single season I played and I have more than 4k hours on Thief. Not trying to brag about anything, but don't give me the "you have to learn" talk. Thanks

U will get only a kitten in here bc u r pro teef ... wvw is a pure clownfiesta anyway.

I totally agree that these anti teef mech. r the most kitten thing I have ever seen implemented into gw2 since release.

Can you stop pretending that the whole map is covered in sentries? More than 90% of the maps are NOT covered in their reveal range and even then it only activates if you stealth for more than 2 seconds... inside their extremely limited radius. And if you fight in and around an enemy tower with watch tower slotted... what the hell are you doing there in the first place?

The reveal was a bandaid fix and it is so inconsequential, yet punishes really really blind people who do not think for more than 1 second ahead.

Just lol ...

But ok ... just extend this mech to other classes too and Im ok with, bc like u said on 90% of the map nobody cares anyway lul ... clownfiesta ?

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@Yugz.6925 said:I guess I'm just done here, the community is uncomprehensive, really, I feel like people don't quite get the game the way I do (and the way most decent players did (but sadly they all quit)). It is people that can't play it properly that are glad it is kitten up, so they can kill people and enjoy their one button dopamine.I really mean it.

Sorry, but I have a really hard time to empathize with thief here.

Let's return to pre PoF Deadeye level of stealth uptime and counter play, then start tackling the stealth issues. As is right now: any good thief has an absolute advantage as to engage and disengage. Introduce some counter play on a class based level, and we can talk about fixing the bad band-aid fixes in place currently around objectives.

You are correct though, I'm not a fan of the watchtower reveals myself. It removes tactile stealth blasting to engage an enemy for organized groups.

At the same time, I also disagree with 1 class having a monopoly on essentially perma stealthing with access to a portal, or being able to re-stealth through a direct counter like a reveal skill (easy fix, reduce the charges on Shadow Meld or remove it's ability to remove revealed). If other classes go out of their way to slot reveal skills to counter stealth, no stealth class should be able to ignore that.

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@"Yugz.6925" said:A kitten ton of problems are up in roaming, even though the big patch appeared, the powercreep is still sooooo high.Lemme add lags. Doesn't even have to be a zerg fight, but some activity spike somewhere on the map -> duels are unplayable. I'm just tired of getting hit while my dodge animation already started :#

And if you get a clean duel, some SlB or Backstabber jumps in and screws it. So, I just stopped speccing for duels . . . but at least some ppl still do.

Maybe try builds for 1 vs. 3 + escape skills. Can be fun, you dont have to pick fights, but just take everything you can get and if the enemy group is above "wannabe-gank"-skill level you can just . . . make a tactical retreat ^^

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Yugz.6925 said:I roamed as well for the past week. And it is still playable.Then this thread is objectively false and completely pointless.

Many people roam. Many find it playable. Hence it is still a thing.

Being still playable does not mean that it is either rewarding or fun. Dungeons still are playable too, but are they either rewarding or fun ? I doubt that. But that's just another topic.What I am trying to point out is the way that Anet just did not care about WvW well being for the past four years, and what the last balance patch has shown us is that the gamemode is completely fucked. They need to re-adapt the specs and mostly stats to a point where it is actually enjoyable to play.

If anybody at Anet reads that, I truly hope that they will finally get that the current state of the game is nowhere close from being either skilled or fun in open field PvP.

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I'm just an inexperienced newbie but I have to say that watching the first of those videos was more a lot more interesting than what I generally see. I don't think anyone reasonable would complain about overly prolonged stealth there. It's fun to see a prolonged back and forth instead of people being instantly "bursted down".

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@"Yugz.6925" said:Being still playable does not mean that it is either rewarding or fun. Dungeons still are playable too, but are they either rewarding or fun ? I doubt that. But that's just another topic.So what response do you think you will get in the fractal/dungeon/raid forum if you make a thread called "PvE is dead and hasnt been a thing for 4 years" just because you dont think a part of it is rewarding or fun?

Same, because its just as objectively false.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Yugz.6925" said:Being still playable does not mean that it is either rewarding or fun. Dungeons still are playable too, but are they either rewarding or fun ? I doubt that. But that's just another topic.So what response do you think you will get in the fractal/dungeon/raid forum if you make a thread called "PvE is dead and hasnt been a thing for 4 years" just because you dont think a part of it is rewarding or fun?

Same, because its just as objectively false.

I could say that dungeons are dead and yeah, they obviously made it a way so you don't need team coordination and all to be effective anymore.The difference is that they designed new content for the new balance of the game. Raid and fractals, which did not happen in WvW.It is not just that I don't like it anymore, it is that it objectively turned to something way less "new players friendly" too. The huge powercreep leads to people not being able to start playing the gamemode, because getting your friends into a gamemode where they get oneshotted if they don't dodge some single spell and all does not make them want to keep playing it and even more than that, it does not give people the opportunity to learn and master the gameplay of their characters.

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@Mokk.2397 said:99% Roamers = Gankers . Glad they're nearly gone.

Hi. I'm the 1%. I usually focus on map goals over hunting other players. I'm that annoying Soulbeast roamer who keeps flipping your depots and allies and killing your yaks. My personal goal is to be so disruptive that the zerg stops to come chase me down. That said, I'm not scared to mix up with other players if they get in my way. It's always fun when someone mistakes me for a typical glass bowbear and finds out I'm not.

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