Sustain is a monster

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

no, and no.

you cannot "turn back to original" with any pvp-like game. idk what u mean with old wvw. probably the time before firebrand was introduced? or where workers upgraded the keeps and you kinda had to pay for every keep upgrade? i play not that long, about 2 years now.

we stomp other groups or bigger zergs the whole time... if it's really a "kitten zerg", you just kill the downed off too slow. good sustain is quality... this game without solid sustain would be complete madness...

there are people around who get like 1000+ kills in two days, yet people on the forums cry about overpowered sustain? sweet af.

[Mikhael.2391]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:My 2c:

The great balance patch was a whiff. They should have done something like a hard cap on the added damage multipliers including crit damage rather than tinker with all the coefficients.Dazes, knockbacks, pulls, and pushes should have their damage returned. Classes without many active forms of defense should have their sustain reworked, in the case of necro they need less damage reduction in shroud but better access to stab and warrior needs Defy Pain and Last Stand reworked.

Hell no, CC should not have insane damage behind it and Anet should put a ICD on cc abilities because stun locks are not fun amd breaks the fun. I can have 3 stun breaks and still be corrrupted of one stability stack and cc again.

Gw2 will only be a good game when they fix this.

[XenesisII.1540]

Everyone and their mother is using cc's now, imagine if they still did decent damage too.Now lots of sustain groups with high mobility and cleanse from small 5 man groups to 50 man blobs, boon sharing wasn't really hit so... same problems as before.Same ole same ole.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Mikhael.2391 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:My 2c:

The great balance patch was a whiff. They should have done something like a hard cap on the added damage multipliers including crit damage rather than tinker with all the coefficients.Dazes, knockbacks, pulls, and pushes should have their damage returned. Classes without many active forms of defense should have their sustain reworked, in the case of necro they need less damage reduction in shroud but better access to stab and warrior needs Defy Pain and Last Stand reworked.

Hell no, CC should not have insane damage behind it and Anet should put a ICD on cc abilities because stun locks are not fun amd breaks the fun. I can have 3 stun breaks and still be corrrupted of one stability stack and cc again.

Gw2 will only be a good game when they fix this.

Did I say insane damage, or include all CCs in my statement. No. So your hyperbole is misplaced.

Bring stab and stun breaks. Can't get stun locked then if you play well.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Can't get stun locked then if you play well.That's not how stunlocking works.

[Sovereign.1093]

There is no stun lock damage anymore. :3

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Mikhael.2391 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:My 2c:

The great balance patch was a whiff. They should have done something like a hard cap on the added damage multipliers including crit damage rather than tinker with all the coefficients.Dazes, knockbacks, pulls, and pushes should have their damage returned. Classes without many active forms of defense should have their sustain reworked, in the case of necro they need less damage reduction in shroud but better access to stab and warrior needs Defy Pain and Last Stand reworked.

Hell no, CC should not have insane damage behind it and Anet should put a ICD on cc abilities because stun locks are not fun amd breaks the fun. I can have 3 stun breaks and still be corrrupted of one stability stack and cc again.

Gw2 will only be a good game when they fix this.

Did I say insane damage, or include all CCs in my statement. No. So your hyperbole is misplaced.

Bring stab and stun breaks. Can't get stun locked then if you play well.

So, the solution to the previous meta was to remove stability and stunbreaks, while the solution to this meta is to...bring them back. Okay, got it.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Mikhael.2391 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:My 2c:

The great balance patch was a whiff. They should have done something like a hard cap on the added damage multipliers including crit damage rather than tinker with all the coefficients.Dazes, knockbacks, pulls, and pushes should have their damage returned. Classes without many active forms of defense should have their sustain reworked, in the case of necro they need less damage reduction in shroud but better access to stab and warrior needs Defy Pain and Last Stand reworked.

Hell no, CC should not have insane damage behind it and Anet should put a ICD on cc abilities because stun locks are not fun amd breaks the fun. I can have 3 stun breaks and still be corrrupted of one stability stack and cc again.

Gw2 will only be a good game when they fix this.

Did I say insane damage, or include all CCs in my statement. No. So your hyperbole is misplaced.

Bring stab and stun breaks. Can't get stun locked then if you play well.

So, the solution to the previous meta was to remove stability and stunbreaks, while the solution to this meta is to...bring them back. Okay, got it.

You should still have stunbreaks and stability somewhere on any class.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Mikhael.2391 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:My 2c:

The great balance patch was a whiff. They should have done something like a hard cap on the added damage multipliers including crit damage rather than tinker with all the coefficients.Dazes, knockbacks, pulls, and pushes should have their damage returned. Classes without many active forms of defense should have their sustain reworked, in the case of necro they need less damage reduction in shroud but better access to stab and warrior needs Defy Pain and Last Stand reworked.

Hell no, CC should not have insane damage behind it and Anet should put a ICD on cc abilities because stun locks are not fun amd breaks the fun. I can have 3 stun breaks and still be corrrupted of one stability stack and cc again.

Gw2 will only be a good game when they fix this.

Did I say insane damage, or include all CCs in my statement. No. So your hyperbole is misplaced.

Bring stab and stun breaks. Can't get stun locked then if you play well.

So, the solution to the previous meta was to remove stability and stunbreaks, while the solution to this meta is to...bring them back. Okay, got it.

You should still have stunbreaks and stability somewhere on any class.

That's why people dislike this meta. They removed most of the stability, made passives unusable in competitive mode with insanely long cooldowns rather than simply replacing them, and now you get chained no matter what you do.

I'm not complaining. I liked the 1 shot meta and I'm fine with this one, too. But I think it was a lot of work to just move things around when it doesn't really make it better or worse overall.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Mikhael.2391 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:My 2c:

The great balance patch was a whiff. They should have done something like a hard cap on the added damage multipliers including crit damage rather than tinker with all the coefficients.Dazes, knockbacks, pulls, and pushes should have their damage returned. Classes without many active forms of defense should have their sustain reworked, in the case of necro they need less damage reduction in shroud but better access to stab and warrior needs Defy Pain and Last Stand reworked.

Hell no, CC should not have insane damage behind it and Anet should put a ICD on cc abilities because stun locks are not fun amd breaks the fun. I can have 3 stun breaks and still be corrrupted of one stability stack and cc again.

Gw2 will only be a good game when they fix this.

Did I say insane damage, or include all CCs in my statement. No. So your hyperbole is misplaced.

Bring stab and stun breaks. Can't get stun locked then if you play well.

So, the solution to the previous meta was to remove stability and stunbreaks, while the solution to this meta is to...bring them back. Okay, got it.

You should still have stunbreaks and stability somewhere on any class.

That's why people dislike this meta. They removed most of the stability, made passives unusable in competitive mode with insanely long cooldowns rather than simply replacing them, and now you get chained no matter what you do.

I'm not complaining. I liked the 1 shot meta and I'm fine with this one, too. But I think it was a lot of work to just move things around when it doesn't really make it better or worse overall.

Believe it or not there are warriors still using Defy pain and Last stand. I did that today while Zerg surfing and spamming axe 5. Dive in, get kills, dive out. Repeat. Went through a whole emblem of the avenger like that.

[Senqu.8054]

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:no, and no.

you cannot "turn back to original" with any pvp-like game. idk what u mean with old wvw. probably the time before firebrand was introduced? or where workers upgraded the keeps and you kinda had to pay for every keep upgrade? i play not that long, about 2 years now.

we stomp other groups or bigger zergs the whole time... if it's really a "kitten zerg", you just kill the downed off too slow. good sustain is quality... this game without solid sustain would be complete madness...

there are people around who get like 1000+ kills in two days, yet people on the forums cry about overpowered sustain? sweet af.

Half of every bigger halfway organized group is support right now. You don’t have to be good to play this meta, you just have to run as close as possible and smash buttons off cd with the right equipment and build. In my opinion it feels like putting someone in front of an driving simulator that has the option to brake and accelerate automatically, what a great gameplay.

I personally have a lot more fun fighting any kind of roaming guild then these sustain blobs. The balance between supportive builds and other stuff is better there then in Zerg fights. After the huge balance patch the fights with roaming guilds are really close to the fights I had the time before HoT came out only the Skills spam is a lot more then in the past. But if they run a massive amount on support it ends ever time with this one single ball of players walking up and down again and again...

[Sugar Min.5834]

I am wearing full minstrel medium class ascended gears and yet the moment i got stunned, hitting stun break immediately did nothing and i was downed and died in like less than 2 secs. Yes, sustain is a monster. NOT.

[Junkpile.7439]

@Mil.3562 said:I am wearing full minstrel medium class ascended gears and yet the moment i got stunned, hitting stun break immediately did nothing and i was downed and died in like less than 2 secs. Yes, sustain is a monster. NOT.Yes you should stay alive even if you can't dodge because you play some lamer meta build. :D

[Sovereign.1093]

Positioning dodging :/ many ppl don't do it. Please do it guys, it helps and it works

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@XenesisII.1540 said:Everyone and their mother is using cc's now, imagine if they still did decent damage too.Now lots of sustain groups with high mobility and cleanse from small 5 man groups to 50 man blobs, boon sharing wasn't really hit so... same problems as before.

the damagenerf of cc's was actually the worst thing kinda - devs didn't understand that good players always used cc for the sake of beeing cc. big groups now sometime run incredible amounts of CC, so dps doesn't matter at all. you get chain-CC'd if u stand on the wrong spot, no bulk or sustain on the world can save u on the long term from that.

the dps nerf only effectively nerfed clouding, nothing else.

@"Mil.3562" yeah sometimes you don't see it coming, idk how exactly this happens but it does. probably boonstrips + cc's and some chill so u cannot activate your cleanses/stab back in time. if you get hit by two rolls of boonstrip and cc you're basically dead, even worse if immobilize is within that(bc isn't effected by stab, only can be cleansed as condition, which leaves u open for dps bursts)

.... and technically 2, maximum 4 coordinated players are enough to strip and stun the sustain of a zerg if you hit right classes. but yeah cannot convince kittens. "sustain is broken bc i have no idea what it even does"

[Sovereign.1093]

If you have a team of minstrel nomads noodle builds. Have one use turtle banner. Then make your team nothing but minstrel fb/spell breaker/scourge. That's it queue up the map with these 3 and nothing but turtle banners. See them rage.

[Oogabooga.3812]

Remember Stare Wars? The pirate ship meta? The sustain now gives the edge to the aggressive melee blobs once again. I rarely joined a pirate ship zerg because of the back-pedaling and refusal for any zerg to be the one to charge into red circles. Now, you back-pedal, you get wiped 90% of the time.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Oogabooga.3812 said:Remember Stare Wars? The pirate ship meta? The sustain now gives the edge to the aggressive melee blobs once again. I rarely joined a pirate ship zerg because of the back-pedaling and refusal for any zerg to be the one to charge into red circles. Now, you back-pedal, you get wiped 90% of the time.

Hehe heralds and their team superspeed push on elite is love <3

[Yasai.3549]

Can I have an extra option?

Nerf Boons for competitive.Boon spam still ridiculous and Boons oozing out of certain Professions make them virtually untouchable because they essentially have a large stat buff over any other profession.

It's just pure unfun to fight a Holo or Ranger because of this reason.

[aspirine.6852]

@Yasai.3549 said:Can I have an extra option?

Nerf Boons for competitive.Boon spam still ridiculous and Boons oozing out of certain Professions make them virtually untouchable because they essentially have a large stat buff over any other profession.

It's just pure unfun to fight a Holo or Ranger because of this reason.

I dont mind boon spamming for personal use, but group spamming is annoying. It's time for bring your own boons, like it was intended.

[Aktium.9506]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:It has always had an animation ( a dark cloud appears over your head with a Reaper in it )That's actually wrong. The animation for Doom wasn't added until August 06, 2013. It used to have no animation whatsoever.

[Thiago.5946]

i think the problem is party sharing sustain ,in competitive mode players need learn be alive without need 10 support spaming heals and boons ,self sustain is ok but share imortality make all unfun .

[God.2708]

I am fine with reducing sustain if, upon death, you have to sit there the full 5 minutes to think about how bad you are for wastefully kamikazing into that siege before you zombie waypoint to rush back to defend the keep lord for the 15th time because you can't be bothered to work with other people.

[Sovereign.1093]

The amount of people dying can only be those not using refresh. Using your self heals is only in emergency and when fighting where your hp reaches 50%

How

Regroup

Guards emps and casts quicknessWater is droppedRev pain absorbs then staff 4Everyone blasts.

That's insta full hp in 2 seconds.

Guys practice this pls. Variations of these has existed since the very beginning

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@God.2708 said:I am fine with reducing sustain if, upon death, you have to sit there the full 5 minutes to think about how bad you are for wastefully kamikazing into that siege before you zombie waypoint to rush back to defend the keep lord for the 15th time because you can't be bothered to work with other people.

i'm fine with lakes, if i'm allowed to like trees. /// if you cannot count on your other players, there's no more options than suicide-dps'ing into enemy siege. situation would barely ever happening if everybody would be aware how to play this format. suiciding into siege isn't done bc it's fun, but because it's necessary.

@Yasai.3549 said:Boon spam still ridiculous and Boons oozing out of certain Professions make them virtually untouchable because they essentially have a large stat buff over any other profession.It's just pure unfun to fight a Holo or Ranger because of this reason.

ranger, the class that barely anybody should bring to Wvw and holo, not been meta for ages, and lately lost 2 big dps-modes. solid. B)