... But The Thief Got Away.

[Dawdler.8521]

@UNOwen.7132 said:Theyre a class that never dies, but also never kills. They just reset over and over, annoying you ,but never posing a threat.Well, I think everything said here is a lie.

[Sobx.1758]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

How is anyone able to take combat in this game seriously if they dont even know how to counter a class yet ask for nerfs.

GImme more carry mechanicccss !! Going down 4x in a minute wont cut it !!! The 2 types of stealth traps wont cut it !!! All the class reveals wont cut it !!! Im just not good enough pls nurf :(Four of us were forced to abandon our attempts to defend OUR camp due to two deadeyes. How is that even remotely fair or balanced?

lmao, hope you have some recording, because it must have been hilarious. Or does "insightful comment" rule not apply to you, so in place of an argument we can make up any story we want to fit the side we're taking and claim we're correct now?

I'm not here to argue the rules. I'm just telling a story. Like humans do.

I know "you're not here to argue the rules", netiher am I. But you sure are here to set double standards about what you require from others compared to yourself. Making up random stories does nothing, humans or not and what you describes sounds like l2p issue more than anything else. Show me what you did and I'll tell you what you did wrong so you can improve :)

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

How is anyone able to take combat in this game seriously if they dont even know how to counter a class yet ask for nerfs.

GImme more carry mechanicccss !! Going down 4x in a minute wont cut it !!! The 2 types of stealth traps wont cut it !!! All the class reveals wont cut it !!! Im just not good enough pls nurf :(Four of us were forced to abandon our attempts to defend OUR camp due to two deadeyes. How is that even remotely fair or balanced?

lmao, hope you have some recording, because it must have been hilarious. Or does "insightful comment" rule not apply to you, so in place of an argument we can make up any story we want to fit the side we're taking and claim we're correct now?

I'm not here to argue the rules. I'm just telling a story. Like humans do.

De are annoying but not sure 4 of you should of lost to 2, when there is los to use, supplys at will to drop stealth traps/markers (dont even say they clear it with elite, you be anticipating that skill and get ready to cc or channaled attacks)

Yup, so he lost because of misplays combined with bad decision making and then tries to use it as an argument for nerfs. I wonder why he won't include any footage of his, but just refer to his oversimiplified stories where he's never at fault, but everyone/everything else is.

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

How is anyone able to take combat in this game seriously if they dont even know how to counter a class yet ask for nerfs.

GImme more carry mechanicccss !! Going down 4x in a minute wont cut it !!! The 2 types of stealth traps wont cut it !!! All the class reveals wont cut it !!! Im just not good enough pls nurf :(Four of us were forced to abandon our attempts to defend OUR camp due to two deadeyes. How is that even remotely fair or balanced?

lmao, hope you have some recording, because it must have been hilarious. Or does "insightful comment" rule not apply to you, so in place of an argument we can make up any story we want to fit the side we're taking and claim we're correct now?

i mean, that ain't even hard. p1 runs toward one deadeye, gets sniped. p2-4 run to the other, it just disengages. first deadeye closes up and snipes p2 from behind. panic, ppl turn, 2nd deadeye snipes p3...

Yup, so he lost because of misplays combined with bad decision making and then tries to use it as an argument for nerfs. I wonder why he won't include any footage of his, but just refer to his oversimiplified stories where he's never at fault, but everyone/everything else is.

...or do you think that your "one runs toward one deadeye, loses 1v1, 2-3 other defenders run to another DE, who disengages, so for some reason they panic, get sniped, decide to chase instead of actually defending" was a perfectly reasonable scenario after which one can make the claim of "having to abandon OUR camp because of 2 DEs"?Because if that's what you think, then I have to repeat: I hope you have some recording of that, because it's hilarious. "totally had to abandon out camp to chase and get picked off one by one while we panic!", oof.

basically the dmg nerfs that happened hit them and rangers the least of all classes.

lmao.

[kash.9213]

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:i'm talking about 4 medicore players versus two mediocre thieves... that's what happens, seen it enough times.

__hope u know that this is a plain lie. maybe if we talk about roamerfights only, yeah... but who runs around in all engages on spvp gear/build. i still kill roamers regularly using zergsets, bc often u cannot just swap in time or it's not necessary even.

again, firebrands could kill stuff before, now impossible. hammer herald lost two big sources of aoe dmg that aren't even fast. i killed some thieves alone with hits on that before... now they can tank a direct hit of hammer 2 or hammer 3 even...

scrouge has a good position bc it has dmg fields, warrior and scrapper are also played as support and therefore can only cc + run away...

theif and ranger have very fast attack followups. for that fact their dps is still very high. (while for example, hammer 5 on rev is extremly slow... if we talk about predictable, that is what would be a way better example than any class that can hit out of stealth)

So, I had this problem where I could kill stuff fast but I'd keep dropping just before I could bounce. So what I did was I adjusted my stats, then fights were a little different after that. After adjusting my stats, some fights became easier and others more difficult. So, before I slam my face into a group or squad or anything else I'll take my time and check out buffs and actions and combat log between fights. If you think they have very fast follow up attacks, watch the animations or effects to know what they're doing and what you can do about it and see what it is in combat log. It might be something you can pressure them into budgeting poorly on which is very likely something that happened even in your examples but you decided they were overpowered and let it be.

DPS might be high or might not but what's going to lite you up fast is being dismantled, striped of all the flak like boons where even the chunkiest health bar will burn to slotted and traited secondary mods like damage or leech on interrupts in a flash. One of your two mystery DE's probably would have bailed on the other or at least been shook after even one pull and stop into your group.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Think there just needs to be some more reveal ability added to most classes and a way to reliably CC evades. The latter will be super tricky as it'd effect all classes, but the dodge / teleport spam is getting a little ridiculous from a few classes now.

Since most of these discussions devolve into thief vs. ranger (as far as balance goes), have a few suggestions from that standpoint...

As a suggestion, I think Druid for instance is actually in a good place, one that could be used as a model for thief. You can be tanky and you have quite a bit of immob ability, but don't have the power to really kill anything with a decent cleanse. In that way, it plays similar role to thief, where you exist to harrass and +1, and can win most 1v1's against inexperienced players, but get doubled up or have anyone with access to CC spam of their own and you are up a creek. Druid to me is more thoughtful in general though, as there is no real instant escape button--you have celestial shadow but must give up other good utilities (verdant etching) to get it.

What I'm saying is, I think the thief has too many escape buttons and therefore does not encourage thoughtful play. It currently is like Soulbeast, where a lot of the times a SB can stack protection and stability and power through most things at 1500 range--if you get close they switch to GS and run. In a group you'll never catch them, and it's such a braindead unbalanced way to play. Thief is same, has both stealth, stunbreaks, cc mitagations, etc. with no real tradeoff other than the super low HP / armor if they happen to fall asleep for a bit.

[Zacchary.6183]

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Think there just needs to be some more reveal ability added to most classes and a way to reliably CC evades. The latter will be super tricky as it'd effect all classes, but the dodge / teleport spam is getting a little ridiculous from a few classes now.

Since most of these discussions devolve into thief vs. ranger (as far as balance goes), have a few suggestions from that standpoint...

As a suggestion, I think Druid for instance is actually in a good place, one that could be used as a model for thief. You can be tanky and you have quite a bit of immob ability, but don't have the power to really kill anything with a decent cleanse. In that way, it plays similar role to thief, where you exist to harrass and +1, and can win most 1v1's against inexperienced players, but get doubled up or have anyone with access to CC spam of their own and you are up a creek. Druid to me is more thoughtful in general though, as there is no real instant escape button--you have celestial shadow but must give up other good utilities (verdant etching) to get it.

What I'm saying is, I think the thief has too many escape buttons and therefore does not encourage thoughtful play. It currently is like Soulbeast, where a lot of the times a SB can stack protection and stability and power through most things at 1500 range--if you get close they switch to GS and run. In a group you'll never catch them, and it's such a braindead unbalanced way to play. Thief is same, has both stealth, stunbreaks, cc mitagations, etc. with no real tradeoff other than the super low HP / armor if they happen to fall asleep for a bit.

Save for stealth, all professions have stunbreaks, CC mitigations, etc. Thief only ever has active defenses. Their heals are trash, their boons are limited, and there is very little fire-and-forget to the profession. What trips people up is thief does not have solid rotations. You cannot entirely predict when something is off cooldown because their weapon skills are spammable. Bottom line, people need to play the profession and understand it if they want to take it out. Nerfing its active defenses is not how you go about doing it.

[Sobx.1758]

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Think there just needs to be some more reveal ability added to most classes and a way to reliably CC evades. The latter will be super tricky as it'd effect all classes, but the dodge / teleport spam is getting a little ridiculous from a few classes now.

And what exactly is your goal here? Literally shutting down the whole class?Hilarious balancing approach.

[Zyreva.1078]

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

As a suggestion, I think Druid for instance is actually in a good place, one that could be used as a model for thief.

Absolutely no. Druid is the worst of ranger specs. Being either useless or hardcarried by a broken mechanic, that requires counterbuilding with little to no way to actually outplay even trash druids without reliable way to get out of the roots, shouldn't be model for anything. I'd rather fight soulbeasts or thieves all day long (even tho both can be quite cancerous in their own ways).

[Gotejjeken.1267]

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

As a suggestion, I think Druid for instance is actually in a good place, one that could be used as a model for thief.

Absolutely no. Druid is the worst of ranger specs. Being either useless or hardcarried by a broken mechanic, that requires counterbuilding with little to no way to actually outplay even trash druids without reliable way to get out of the roots, shouldn't be model for anything. I'd rather fight soulbeasts or thieves all day long (even tho both can be quite cancerous in their own ways).

Have you actually played it? I can tell you a decent boon beast is far, far worse than a druid any day. You outplay 'trash' druids by having stab uptime, literally any CC skill, or outranging them, all of which are pretty easy to do. I've played one of the builds that you would hate for many hours and can tell you it's only really effective in group settings (non-zerg).

Complaints about rooting are very similar to the complaints about thieves bursting from stealth, both require counterplay. Druid roots have major counterplay as unless you are +1'ing, almost all classes have ways to instantly break out of the roots or never be rooted to begin with. Roots aren't even druid specific, it's one trait on a 10 second ICD lol. SB can actually do immob better being selfish, can have sustain all day, only lacking in condi removal unless you run runes of cleansing.

Anyway, Thieves on the other hand are built so that counterplay will 'kill the class' (see above responses). That's just bad design all the way around, as you either have an unkillable +1ing machine and 'have to deal with it' or you 'break the entire class beyond repair'.

[Zyreva.1078]

Boonbeat is op 1vs1 and i despise it for how faceroll it is, but you can walk away from it and it doesn't do much. Can't ignore condi druids and fighting those is 100% a matter of build. If you can get out of the roots - druid doesn't do anything. Can't get out - which is again a matter of build, not player skill - you just die. Terrible design.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:Boonbeat is op 1vs1 and i despise it for how faceroll it is, but you can walk away from it and it doesn't do much. Can't ignore condi druids and fighting those is 100% a matter of build. If you can get out of the roots - druid doesn't do anything. Can't get out - which is again a matter of build, not player skill - you just die. Terrible design.

That's anything though, isn't it? If you don't specifically build for conditions you can get burned to death or condi spammed to death (condi herald says hi), with little skill involved. If you don't build for stunbreaks, have fun against a build with a lot of stuns as you can die in seconds. At least immob spam HAS counterplay though; something that is lacking for thieves, clearly, by this topic existing.

My original point is even though people complain about thief, I personally don't think it is 'broken' and think it could benefit from the same treatment druid got (healing reduction, evade reduction, etc.), as both ranger and thief are medium armor and can build into toughness for surviving. Thief has stealth, ranger has boons--we have boonrip to counter that--, we need more reveal to counter stealth. If it means upping thief HP to balance then so be it, though maurader thieves can get quite a bit of HP anyway.

Another option is to nerf blind / smoke field, but I don't think anyone wants that.

[kash.9213]

@"Gotejjeken.1267" said:Think there just needs to be some more reveal ability added to most classes and a way to reliably CC evades. The latter will be super tricky as it'd effect all classes, but the dodge / teleport spam is getting a little ridiculous from a few classes now.

Since most of these discussions devolve into thief vs. ranger (as far as balance goes), have a few suggestions from that standpoint...

As a suggestion, I think Druid for instance is actually in a good place, one that could be used as a model for thief. You can be tanky and you have quite a bit of immob ability, but don't have the power to really kill anything with a decent cleanse. In that way, it plays similar role to thief, where you exist to harrass and +1, and can win most 1v1's against inexperienced players, but get doubled up or have anyone with access to CC spam of their own and you are up a creek. Druid to me is more thoughtful in general though, as there is no real instant escape button--you have celestial shadow but must give up other good utilities (verdant etching) to get it.

What I'm saying is, I think the thief has too many escape buttons and therefore does not encourage thoughtful play. It currently is like Soulbeast, where a lot of the times a SB can stack protection and stability and power through most things at 1500 range--if you get close they switch to GS and run. In a group you'll never catch them, and it's such a braindead unbalanced way to play. Thief is same, has both stealth, stunbreaks, cc mitagations, etc. with no real tradeoff other than the super low HP / armor if they happen to fall asleep for a bit.

Take all of those "escape buttons" on your weapon kit and utility bar out onto a map for awhile. Then when you rage quit those because they're not passive and you still need to fight you can go back to a normal build like most thieves have and you might think about staggering your mitigation and resources and just being careful in general, which will be told by the other player as an invincible thief story but whatever. Then you can laugh at the forums whenever someone comes on here and claims a thief can spam stealth, evades, and teleports constantly while you stress over your build that never fits in enough of what you need.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

that scenario was purely fictional, as mentioned... (and answer to the guy who posted sth alike) i simply don't do smallscale skirmish with thiefs unless i have a safe out, like a portal or cliff and enough stab+stunbreak off cd.... usually they just run anyways when they realize u don't run away blindly so they can/could backstab u in peace.

and no, there's no way i'd adapt my set for just a thief. or any other roamer. they nearly never come alone anyways and u won't be able to build for ganks nor have the time to react if that happens. especially not with the useless warkitty, which is helping every glasscannon by having no armor and leave the dismounted person additionally dazed.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

As a suggestion, I think Druid for instance is actually in a good place, one that could be used as a model for thief.

Absolutely no. Druid is the worst of ranger specs. Being either useless or hardcarried by a broken mechanic, that requires counterbuilding with little to no way to actually outplay even trash druids without reliable way to get out of the roots, shouldn't be model for anything. I'd rather fight soulbeasts or thieves all day long (even tho both can be quite cancerous in their own ways).

Have you actually played it? I can tell you a decent boon beast is far, far worse than a druid any day. You outplay 'trash' druids by having stab uptime, literally any CC skill, or outranging them, all of which are pretty easy to do. I've played one of the builds that you would hate for many hours and can tell you it's only really effective in group settings (non-zerg).

Complaints about rooting are very similar to the complaints about thieves bursting from stealth, both require counterplay. Druid roots have major counterplay as unless you are +1'ing, almost all classes have ways to instantly break out of the roots or never be rooted to begin with. Roots aren't even druid specific, it's one trait on a 10 second ICD lol. SB can actually do immob better being selfish, can have sustain all day, only lacking in condi removal unless you run runes of cleansing.

Anyway, Thieves on the other hand are built so that counterplay will 'kill the class' (see above responses). That's just bad design all the way around, as you either have an unkillable +1ing machine and 'have to deal with it' or you 'break the entire class beyond repair'.

Outplay druid by bringing stab up time & out range it lol only a few classes have enough stab up time to keep up with druids root access, lastly u say out range it yet druid can out range most classes so.....

[Yasai.3549]

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Theyre a class that never dies, but also never kills. They just reset over and over, annoying you ,but never posing a threat.

Might be true if yu are fighting Thief 1v1 in an isolated setting with no external factors.

But since this is a WvW thread, this is hardly the case.

1. Players rarely roam alone. This means the Thief has someone to "tag team" the aggro which usually would be directed at them.

2. Thief is very capable of killing anyone. The reason they "reset" over and over is because when they get attacked, they need to use their utilities and skills to peel for themselves.Now what happens if the attention isn't on them all the time?

They are free to use their resources to have a field day on anyone whose attention isn't on them.

3. Multiple Thieves are actually extremely hard to deal with.

They pop in and out of Stealth, making it difficult for each individual player to track them.

For each additional Thief in a group, yu need 1 extra pair of eyes to look out for them.

This is made even worse with infamous Thief only fight guilds which all wear the same transmutes in order to further confuse people that they are attacking.

All that said, Thief groups are bullies against any number of enemies which isn't a havoc yet.

And we even have the rare Thief havoc.

[Sobx.1758]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Theyre a class that never dies, but also never kills. They just reset over and over, annoying you ,but never posing a threat.

Might be true if yu are fighting Thief 1v1 in an isolated setting with no external factors.

But since this is a WvW thread, this is hardly the case.

1. Players rarely roam alone. This means the Thief has someone to "tag team" the aggro which usually would be directed at them.

2. Thief is very capable of killing anyone. The reason they "reset" over and over is because when they get attacked, they need to use their utilities and skills to peel for themselves.Now what happens if the attention isn't on them all the time?

They are free to use their resources to have a field day on anyone whose attention isn't on them.

Also true for literally any other build of any other class, what are you even arguing here?

3. Multiple Thieves are actually extremely hard to deal with.

They pop in and out of Stealth, making it difficult for each individual player to track them.

For each additional Thief in a group, yu need 1 extra pair of eyes to look out for them.

lmao, yeah sure, you totally need one extra pair of eyes. I wonder why don't we specifically see flocks/zergs of thieves if they're so strong in a group v group setting.

[Yasai.3549]

@Sobx.1758 said:

lmao, yeah sure, you totally need one extra pair of eyes. I wonder why don't we specifically see flocks/zergs of thieves if they're so strong in a group v group setting.

Seems like yu enjoy joke answers so here's one :They in Stealth.

[Sobx.1758]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

lmao, yeah sure, you totally need one extra pair of eyes. I wonder why don't we specifically see flocks/zergs of thieves if they're so strong in a group v group setting.

Seems like yu enjoy joke answers so here's one :They in Stealth.

Smooth dodge on the first part of the the whole answer ^^

[Yasai.3549]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

lmao, yeah sure, you totally need one extra pair of eyes. I wonder why don't we specifically see flocks/zergs of thieves if they're so strong in a group v group setting.

Seems like yu enjoy joke answers so here's one :They in Stealth.

Smooth dodge on

the first part of the

the whole answer ^^

What can I say, I play Thief.

[Sobx.1758]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

lmao, yeah sure, you totally need one extra pair of eyes. I wonder why don't we specifically see flocks/zergs of thieves if they're so strong in a group v group setting.

Seems like yu enjoy joke answers so here's one :They in Stealth.

Smooth dodge on

the first part of the

the whole answer ^^

What can I say, I play Thief.

Irrelevant, every class can dodge.Got'em? ;p

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

lmao, yeah sure, you totally need one extra pair of eyes. I wonder why don't we specifically see flocks/zergs of thieves if they're so strong in a group v group setting.

Seems like yu enjoy joke answers so here's one :They in Stealth.

Smooth dodge on

the first part of the

the whole answer ^^

What can I say, I play Thief.

Irrelevant, every class can dodge.Got'em? ;p

Apparently not so.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

lmao, yeah sure, you totally need one extra pair of eyes. I wonder why don't we specifically see flocks/zergs of thieves if they're so strong in a group v group setting.

Seems like yu enjoy joke answers so here's one :They in Stealth.

lol. people even tried that, just it failed horribly. there are still guilds of thieves, we had a 15ish group of different thief builds once on a map, trying to interrupt zergfights. they just fed us in the end, they are forced to trade like 3-4 ganks to a full wipe of their 15s. but just because a voiced zerg easily bombs away thieves, doesn't mean their dps isn't broken considering their: upkeep - range - stealth - mobility - attack speed

and yeah, i dont think groups of thieves are the main issue. gankergroups are annoying... but every roamerclass can make them.

[Voltekka.2375]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

As a suggestion, I think Druid for instance is actually in a good place, one that could be used as a model for thief.

Absolutely no. Druid is the worst of ranger specs. Being either useless or hardcarried by a broken mechanic, that requires counterbuilding with little to no way to actually outplay even trash druids without reliable way to get out of the roots, shouldn't be model for anything. I'd rather fight soulbeasts or thieves all day long (even tho both can be quite cancerous in their own ways).

Have you actually played it? I can tell you a decent boon beast is far, far worse than a druid any day. You outplay 'trash' druids by having stab uptime, literally any CC skill, or outranging them, all of which are pretty easy to do. I've played one of the builds that you would hate for many hours and can tell you it's only really effective in group settings (non-zerg).

Complaints about rooting are very similar to the complaints about thieves bursting from stealth, both require counterplay. Druid roots have major counterplay as unless you are +1'ing, almost all classes have ways to instantly break out of the roots or never be rooted to begin with. Roots aren't even druid specific, it's one trait on a 10 second ICD lol. SB can actually do immob better being selfish, can have sustain all day, only lacking in condi removal unless you run runes of cleansing.

Anyway, Thieves on the other hand are built so that counterplay will 'kill the class' (see above responses). That's just bad design all the way around, as you either have an unkillable +1ing machine and 'have to deal with it' or you 'break the entire class beyond repair'.

Outplay druid by bringing stab up time & out range it lol only a few classes have enough stab up time to keep up with druids root access, lastly u say out range it yet druid can out range most classes so.....

Just so you know, stab is useless against immobilize. If you need a further explanation, immob is a CONDITION. Here, hope this helps!

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stabilityhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobile

So, you actually need another boon to render IMMOBILISE useless, it is called RESISTANCE

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resistance

Hope that helped!

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

As a suggestion, I think Druid for instance is actually in a good place, one that could be used as a model for thief.

Absolutely no. Druid is the worst of ranger specs. Being either useless or hardcarried by a broken mechanic, that requires counterbuilding with little to no way to actually outplay even trash druids without reliable way to get out of the roots, shouldn't be model for anything. I'd rather fight soulbeasts or thieves all day long (even tho both can be quite cancerous in their own ways).

Have you actually played it? I can tell you a decent boon beast is far, far worse than a druid any day. You outplay 'trash' druids by having stab uptime, literally any CC skill, or outranging them, all of which are pretty easy to do. I've played one of the builds that you would hate for many hours and can tell you it's only really effective in group settings (non-zerg).

Complaints about rooting are very similar to the complaints about thieves bursting from stealth, both require counterplay. Druid roots have major counterplay as unless you are +1'ing, almost all classes have ways to instantly break out of the roots or never be rooted to begin with. Roots aren't even druid specific, it's one trait on a 10 second ICD lol. SB can actually do immob better being selfish, can have sustain all day, only lacking in condi removal unless you run runes of cleansing.

Anyway, Thieves on the other hand are built so that counterplay will 'kill the class' (see above responses). That's just bad design all the way around, as you either have an unkillable +1ing machine and 'have to deal with it' or you 'break the entire class beyond repair'.

Outplay druid by bringing stab up time & out range it lol only a few classes have enough stab up time to keep up with druids root access, lastly u say out range it yet druid can out range most classes so.....

Just so you know, stab is useless against immobilize. If you need a further explanation, immob is a CONDITION. Here, hope this helps!

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobile

So, you actually need another boon to render IMMOBILISE useless, it is called RESISTANCE

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resistance

Hope that helped!

I was merely pointing out how silly those counterplay tips were :)

[VICBEAR.1529]

What is about Engineer, Warrior, Ranger, Mesmer etc?Many classes can escape from fight but why is thief so big trouble?

Just make topic "Please delete thief class"

[kash.9213]

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:that scenario was purely fictional, as mentioned... (and answer to the guy who posted sth alike) i simply don't do smallscale skirmish with thiefs unless i have a safe out, like a portal or cliff and enough stab+stunbreak off cd.... usually they just run anyways when they realize u don't run away blindly so they can/could backstab u in peace.

and no, there's no way i'd adapt my set for just a thief. or any other roamer. they nearly never come alone anyways and u won't be able to build for ganks nor have the time to react if that happens. especially not with the useless warkitty, which is helping every glasscannon by having no armor and leave the dismounted person additionally dazed.

What do you mean by that? Of course you will adapt your build to those and everything else. You'll build for "ganks" also like everyone else. Why are you in WvW if you're not building for all of that?