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Why i think casuals are the most important player in guild wars 2


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Hello all, i wanted to talk about something i observed. I been playing guild wars 2 not very often or long, but i wanted to share my experience on why the casual player is the most important player for guild wars 2.

I watched streamers, pros, other casuals, and at the moment, i am considered a casual, - so yea i been watching different kinds of players and judge based on my own experience.

So why are casuals the most important player in guild wars 2 ? The reason is - they buy gems and support guild wars 2. I don't think pros and end game players support guild wars 2 that much. The reason is, fractals and raids provide way too much gold, and they give you stacks of armor boxes and materials, and you just flip legendaries as well as convert gold to gems and buy what you need.

Now..the casual...the casual is not skillful at raids or fractals, and they have poor gold generating skills or farm wood and ore, thus, they are most hurting for armor, gold, and resources. In this way, i think casuals would spend more on gems than streamers or raiders or fractal players. As a casual my self, i do like using money to gems to getting skins, power ups, and completing my account.

Completing account is another big thing. People who have been playing for years probably have most of the achievements, while new players have to start farming achievements. The gem shop helps with this, and i think veterans, pros, streamers - they won't spend money on gems since they already have endless gold and their achievements are high (in the 20ks )

Now what does this all mean ? i think (and assuming) that anet knows casuals are the major demographic of the player base and the ones most likely to spend gems as well as support guild wars 2 and complete maps in the living stories as well as dallies and farming materials.

I DID NOT say that casuals are bad or weak. I like being a casual due to my psychology and i am usually at peace playing guild wars 2.Does that mean casuals are better than raiders and fractal players and pvPers ? on the contrary.... it seems that if we want to support guild wars 2 and help generate content, we need to spend and buy more gems.

I know that as soon as i start doing fractals or raiding, gold will be a thing of the past and money(gold) won't be a problem. I really think anet should nerf the gold generated from endgame content but otherwise, casuals and those who don't play end game are most likely to spend gems.

I support guild wars 2, but because of my emotions and moods, i don't always play everyday. Sometimes i play for a few weeks, and than play something else.

Any ways, what do you guys think about this ? i like guild wars 2 and support them but i am just gradually starting to get serious. Let me know what you guys think <3

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I think many 'Veterans' are casual players.
I think many 'Veterans' don't have excess amounts of Gold.
I don't think all 'Veterans' flip Legendaries.I don't think having 20K APs means one has endless Gold. (I wish that were true, but it's not.)

Even those that don't 'buy Gems' are important. A well-populated game attracts players; a decent population is just as important.

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The amount of "veteran" players I know who are broke as kitten far exceeds the amount of veteran players who are rich beyond imagination.

Players who manage their resources, in-game income and in-game spending or supplement this with gem purchase and gold conversion are the ones who have a ton of gold. This might benefit long time players due to the game experience they have, but that is no guarantee.

There are multiple criteria which affect if and when someone spends money on gems:A. the actual ability to do so. No harm in not being able to afford gems, that does not make someone a worse person, but it does mean they will definitely not be buying gems (or should not)B. personal value of gold, time and gems. I certainly have enough gold to convert to gems for most of my in-game needs, yet I still buy gems for cosmetic gemstore purchases (I personally do not convert gems to gold). Why? Because I value my time and can afford to do so. I adapt my in-game gold spending to my in-game gold acquisition.C attachment to the game. I find that players who are more attached to the game are more willing to spend money on it. This is content unrelated.D something "worthwhile" to actually spend gems on. At some point, the 20th mount skins, no matter how amazing it is, just does not interest one.

None of those factors are exclusive to new or "veteran" players. What new players might be more subject to spend money on in point D, they might lack in point C being newer to the game and less attached. What "veteran" players might lack in point D, they might make up for in point C, having been with the game for far longer.

The important bit is: the ability to spend money and the willingness to do so is unrelated to player age or time with the game.

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@"Angel.3916" said:So why are casuals the most important player in guild wars 2 ? The reason is - they buy gems and support guild wars 2. I don't think pros and end game players support guild wars 2 that much. The reason is, fractals and raids provide way too much gold, and they give you stacks of armor boxes and materials, and you just flip legendaries as well as convert gold to gems and buy what you need.

Now..the casual...the casual is not skillful at raids or fractals, and they have poor gold generating skills or farm wood and ore, thus, they are most hurting for armor, gold, and resources. In this way, i think casuals would spend more on gems than streamers or raiders or fractal players. As a casual my self, i do like using money to gems to getting skins, power ups, and completing my account.

Your argument kind of falls flat when you realize that "Grinding" easy meta events provides more gold than running fractals/raids. Gathering wood at Malchor's Leap with loads of alts also generates more gold. Furthermore, those running raids and fractals occasionally end up with less gold at the end of the week instead of more, due to failures, and thanks to training runs to help friends and others.

Also, those running Fractals and Raids are more likely to have multiple characters, all requiring gear to properly set-up to fill different roles in their content of choice. Meanwhile, your "average casual" can enjoy those highly rewarding map meta events with just a single character.

And since the easiest meta farms also attract the most players, your "poor gold generating skills" argument is null and void.

Completing account is another big thing. People who have been playing for years probably have most of the achievements, while new players have to start farming achievements. The gem shop helps with this, and i think veterans, pros, streamers - they won't spend money on gems since they already have endless gold and their achievements are high (in the 20ks )

As explained above, the "farmers" (and TP flippers but those are another story) are those with the endless gold, those farming Silverwastes or Drizzlewood religiously for hours. Not "Veterans" and not "pros".

Now what does this all mean ? i think (and assuming) that anet knows casuals are the major demographic of the player base and the ones most likely to spend gems as well as support guild wars 2 and complete maps in the living stories as well as dallies and farming materials.

Those that buy gems and those that support Guild Wars 2 are the invested players that have multiple characters, gear multiple characters, use the latest gem store skins and so on. This has very little (if anything) to do with the content they play, they just have to enjoy playing it (or feel rewarded enough playing it) and have enough of that content to satisfy them.

I know that as soon as i start doing fractals or raiding, gold will be a thing of the past and money(gold) won't be a problem. I really think anet should nerf the gold generated from endgame content but otherwise, casuals and those who don't play end game are most likely to spend gems.

You don't have to start doing Fractals or Raiding for gold to be a "Thing of the past", in fact doing that will limit your gold intake, at least for a time. Because you will have to buy several character slots, gear all those properly with gear, start buying food and utilities, get infusions (for fractals), expand your inventory and storage to store all the junk you will get. You will first get bankrupt before you start "earning good gold" from Fractals and Raids.

On the other hand, you can go to Silverwastes or Drizzlewood right now. Get a second monitor to watch a show on Netflix while "farming" and start spamming 1 and F. By the time you finish watching your next series you will have enough gold to buy anything you want from the gem store.

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@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I think many 'Veterans' are casual players.

I think many 'Veterans' don't have excess amounts of Gold.

I don't think all 'Veterans' flip Legendaries.I don't think having 20K APs means one has endless Gold. (I wish that were true, but it's not.)

Even those that don't 'buy Gems' are important. A well-populated game attracts players; a decent population is just as important.

This almost describes me perfectly. I started about a year after launch. I'm just shy of 19k AP, sitting on just over 1k gold and have never had a precursor much less a legendary. I am a very casual player in that I have a limited amount of time to play due to real life commitments.

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@"Sifu.9745" said:It's hard to stay casual in a game that favorises only pro players with super fast fingers. Game is just way too difficult for any kind of casual playstyle with exception of open world, which is irrelevant.

your "exeption" is 90% of this games content if we include the story aswell, which is so casual that is almost an interactive novel/movie.nothing in gw2 is irrelevant (or relevant, depends on how you see it)same rewards for people autoatacking and people with super fast fingers.

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I agree with everyone saying there's an important distinction between hardcore players who can complete the hardest content and/or spend a lot of time efficiently farming gold so they rarely/never need to buy gems and veteran players who have been playing GW2 for years. It's not automatic that if you play the game for long enough you end up spending your time farming gold or doing raids, and it's not actually required to spend a lot of time playing or build up a lot of AP to be able to do those things.

Also if we're talking about how much money they bring in for Anet it's worth remembering that gems are only available to buy with gold if someone has previously bought them with real money and converted them to gold (and the same is true of the gold). That's why the exchange rate keeps changing - it's based on the number of people converting in each direction. Hypothetically if no one bought gems and converted them into gold eventually the supply would run out and it would be impossible to convert them the other way. In practice that will probably never happen because before it did the exchange rate would reach a point where it's not worth converting your gold, but anyone willing and able to buy gems would turn some into gold because they get so much, and then the rate would shift in the other direction.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Angel.3916" said:So why are casuals the most important player in guild wars 2 ? The reason is - they buy gems and support guild wars 2. I don't think pros and end game players support guild wars 2 that much. The reason is, fractals and raids provide way too much gold, and they give you stacks of armor boxes and materials, and you just flip legendaries as well as convert gold to gems and buy what you need.

Now..the casual...the casual is not skillful at raids or fractals, and they have poor gold generating skills or farm wood and ore, thus, they are most hurting for armor, gold, and resources. In this way, i think casuals would spend more on gems than streamers or raiders or fractal players. As a casual my self, i do like using money to gems to getting skins, power ups, and completing my account.

Your argument kind of falls flat when you realize that "Grinding" easy meta events provides more gold than running fractals/raids. Gathering wood at Malchor's Leap with loads of alts also generates more gold. Furthermore, those running raids and fractals occasionally end up with less gold at the end of the week instead of more, due to failures, and thanks to training runs to help friends and others.

Also, those running Fractals and Raids are more likely to have multiple characters, all requiring gear to properly set-up to fill different roles in their content of choice. Meanwhile, your "average casual" can enjoy those highly rewarding map meta events with just a single character.

And since the easiest meta farms also attract the most players, your "poor gold generating skills" argument is null and void.

Completing account is another big thing. People who have been playing for years probably have most of the achievements, while new players have to start farming achievements. The gem shop helps with this, and i think veterans, pros, streamers - they won't spend money on gems since they already have endless gold and their achievements are high (in the 20ks )

As explained above, the "farmers" (and TP flippers but those are another story) are those with the endless gold, those farming Silverwastes or Drizzlewood religiously for hours. Not "Veterans" and not "pros".

Now what does this all mean ? i think (and assuming) that anet knows casuals are the major demographic of the player base and the ones most likely to spend gems as well as support guild wars 2 and complete maps in the living stories as well as dallies and farming materials.

Those that buy gems and those that support Guild Wars 2 are the invested players that have multiple characters, gear multiple characters, use the latest gem store skins and so on. This has very little (if anything) to do with the content they play, they just have to enjoy playing it (or feel rewarded enough playing it) and have enough of that content to satisfy them.

I know that as soon as i start doing fractals or raiding, gold will be a thing of the past and money(gold) won't be a problem. I really think anet should nerf the gold generated from endgame content but otherwise, casuals and those who don't play end game are most likely to spend gems.

You don't have to start doing Fractals or Raiding for gold to be a "Thing of the past", in fact doing that will limit your gold intake, at least for a time. Because you will have to buy several character slots, gear all those properly with gear, start buying food and utilities, get infusions (for fractals), expand your inventory and storage to store all the junk you will get. You will first get bankrupt before you start "earning good gold" from Fractals and Raids.

On the other hand, you can go to Silverwastes or Drizzlewood right now. Get a second monitor to watch a show on Netflix while "farming" and start spamming 1 and F. By the time you finish watching your next series you will have enough gold to buy anything you want from the gem store.

I think it's important to remember that time spent on a game is one of the distinctions between 'casual' and 'hardcore' players, as well as their skill or knowledge of the game. If someone plays for a few hours a day on a daily (or near daily) basis and spends the majority of their time farming meta events for gold then I'd say they're not a casual player, even if they can't or don't want to do harder content like raids and high level Fractals. They're still showing a significant understanding of an area of the game in knowing how to farm gold effectively, and devoting a lot of time to doing it.

I also think you're right that there's a distinction between veteran players and hardcore players. A veteran is someone who has been playing GW2 for a long period of time, but contrary to popular belief there's no guarantee that they will automatically move on to harder content or dedicated farming during that time. Lots of us have been playing this game for years but choose to focus on casual activities because it's what we find fun. (This isn't unique to GW2 either, I see it all the time with other games.)

Similarly there are newer players who can get to 80 within their first month, choose a build, make some exotic/ascended armour and go straight into 'end game' content and play effectively even though they're still new to the game, because it's what they're interested in and how they enjoy playing. They may rack up more hours in-game during that first month than a casual veteran spends in two months, and complete a lot more of their goals because they're focusing on doing it as efficiently as possible. That makes them a hardcore player even if their total time spent playing is still very low compared to some people who have been playing for years.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I think many 'Veterans' are casual players.

I think many 'Veterans' don't have excess amounts of Gold.

I don't think all 'Veterans' flip Legendaries.I don't think having 20K APs means one has endless Gold. (I wish that were true, but it's not.)

Even those that don't 'buy Gems' are important. A well-populated game attracts players; a decent population is just as important.

This almost describes me perfectly. I started about a year after launch. I'm just shy of 19k AP, sitting on just over 1k gold and have never had a precursor much less a legendary. I am a very casual player in that I have a limited amount of time to play due to real life commitments.

I was going to say I'm impressed you have over 1k gold, when it seems like we're in a quite similar situation otherwise, but then I realised if I hadn't made legendaries I could probably have that much gold, but I spent it instead.

For me 100g is a lot to have at one time, but I'm aware that's partially because when I do I spend it. But it can take me weeks or months to get back to 100g after spending it. I'm aware, in a general sense, of how to farm gold but I just don't have the time or inclination to farm meta events all day long. I have about an hour or two per day to play (not every day) and if I tried to match how other people play I could easily spend all that time farming and never get to do anything else, which would be both boring and pointless.

Instead I spend my time doing things I find fun. The other day for example I spent an hour and a half going around Istan trying to do the lost library book achievement without a guide, just because I felt like finishing it off. I only found one book in that time and maybe got 1g worth of items, plus some karma and things of course, but I had fun revisiting the map and poking around to see what I could find. That to me is what defines a casual player - we not only don't worry about playing the hardest content, we don't worry about maximising the output or playing in the most efficient way or with the best possible builds. I realise other people find doing that more fun, and that's fine and absolutely a valid way to play (as long as you are enjoying it), but that's how I make the distinction between casual and hardcore players, with new and veteran players as an entirely separate distinction.

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If a player is a „casual“ doesn‘t actually say a lot about the content they play or how skillful they are. It‘s more about how much time they spend ingame and how invested they are.I‘d consider someone that 24/7 farms in SW way more hardcore than someone that only logs in once a week to raid (THAT‘S pretty casual ;) ).

Well, that is unless you‘re using „casual“ as some sort of derogatory term.

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@Sifu.9745 said:It's hard to stay casual in a game that favorises only pro players with super fast fingers. Game is just way too difficult for any kind of casual playstyle with exception of open world, which is irrelevant.

Wait, are you talking about THIS game? That's hardly the case; if it DIDN'T favour casuals, it wouldn't be here in the first place. The 'exception' you speak of is actually the majority of game content.

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@"Danikat.8537" said:I was going to say I'm impressed you have over 1k gold, when it seems like we're in a quite similar situation otherwise, but then I realised if I hadn't made legendaries I could probably have that much gold, but I spent it instead.I'm at the point where there really isn't much I need to spend gold on. I have the characters that I like to play decked out in gear that works for me and have no real need to change them. I typically save gold to convert to gems (like for the annual sale) but wait for the exchange to hit a threshold that I find acceptable. I can afford to wait because there usually isn't anything in the gem store that I want or need. I'll pick up gems here and there and stockpile them to be ready in case something does show up in the store that interests me.

I did manage to save up for the "I'm rich, you know" title at one point. It's taken quite a while to get back up to where I am now. :)

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@"Danikat.8537" said:I think it's important to remember that time spent on a game is one of the distinctions between 'casual' and 'hardcore' players, as well as their skill or knowledge of the game. If someone plays for a few hours a day on a daily (or near daily) basis and spends the majority of their time farming meta events for gold then I'd say they're not a casual player, even if they can't or don't want to do harder content like raids and high level Fractals. They're still showing a significant understanding of an area of the game in knowing how to farm gold effectively, and devoting a lot of time to doing it.

Of course and time spent is probably the most sensible distinction between the words 'casual' and 'hardcore'. The problem comes when someone claims that "casuals are the most important player in guild wars 2" and use a vague definition. If we use "time", are players that play 1 hour every month really the most important players in the game? Are players that play a few hours every month even any kind of "majority" (many claim casuals are the majority of players)? Because the way I see it the word is thrown around constantly to support different arguments, that are in many cases also in conflict with each other.

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@Sifu.9745 said:It's hard to stay casual in a game that favorises only pro players with super fast fingers. Game is just way too difficult for any kind of casual playstyle with exception of open world, which is irrelevant.

This game is amazingly casual friendly. It seems to me that most players are casual. And as for open world - that is about all I play. I love it. And judging from how many players I see running around, I am not the only one that likes open world.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sifu.9745 said:It's hard to stay casual in a game that favorises only pro players with super fast fingers. Game is just way too difficult for any kind of casual playstyle with exception of open world, which is irrelevant.

Wait, are you talking about THIS game? That's hardly the case; if it DIDN'T favour casuals, it wouldn't be here in the first place. The 'exception' you speak of is actually the majority of game content.

So what should i do in open world when i ding 80? I have no idea, really. After getting all 4 mounts, most mastery points, hero points, unlocked 2 elite specs i don't see a reason why should i ever get back to HoT and PoF maps? Oh yes, you can do some world bosses with 20 + people and get downed over and over again. Super casually!

Personal story i am not interested about. Also not interested about any kind of living story. I don't even know what living story is lol, not kidding.

I want to do PvP, WvW and do instanced pve but everything seems so difficult and hard core oriented. You can enter unranked PvP but it's not easy at all: one mistake and you get down within 1 - 3 seconds, if not max concentrated. Is this casual? WvW: not sure what to say here ..., Pve: one shot boss mechanics. Really? That's why i have never done even one single Fractal. I admit i have no courage to step into my first Fractal because i am pretty sure that i will be dying a lot + how to find a group for Fractal #1? No idea.

If this game is really made for casuals, then we would see way more players, don't you think? Why can't we play PvP, WvW and instanced pve with every weapon we like? Why no group would accept my Staff/Scepter condi Mirage in Raids and Fractals? Is this casual?

WoW is a typical casual game: you can play everything from super easy dangeons up to mythic raids and mythic dungeons. You can play every role you want with every weapon you want. You can play PvP where you don't get eliminated within 3 seconds, no matter how bad you are, even if you go AFK you will survive for 10 seconds at least vs one opponent. The only good thing about gW2 is that you don't need to endlessly farm gear: you can get exotic gear with almost no effort.

Casual means, that you can do random content with other people and have some fun with whatever build and weapon set you want, instead of being maximum concentrated and coordinated with your group 24/7. Some of us are a bit lazy, you know.Sorry for English ...

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@"TrOtskY.5927" said:I think casual is maybe the wrong word when I think about it. Many players log in every day for hours, for many years, but still don't know how to make gold well, don't play end game content etc.

I'm not sure casual is the correct word.

Yeah, I'm not sure exactly what "casual" means. I've seen players that haven't played much in this game do well in harder content, and on the other hand players that have played thousands of hours still doing poorly.

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Players who play more than 3 times a week in sessions of more than 1 hour are the ones who spend the cash buying gems. Those are not casuals neither are Hardcore.For those players to stick to the game the game has to be in a healthy state (balance, engaging content, endgame content) and must have a healthy population.

Casuals who play for half an hour 3 times per week for the dailies will buy gems very occasionally for something specific, Hardcore will buy occasionally as showing support for the game.

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@Sifu.9745 said:

@Sifu.9745 said:It's hard to stay casual in a game that favorises only pro players with super fast fingers. Game is just way too difficult for any kind of casual playstyle with exception of open world, which is irrelevant.

Wait, are you talking about THIS game? That's hardly the case; if it DIDN'T favour casuals, it wouldn't be here in the first place. The 'exception' you speak of is actually the majority of game content.

So what should i do in open world when i ding 80?

Whatever there is to do there ... I mean, over half the maps in this game are targetted to level 80 ... the idea there isn't anything for a level 80 to do in OW content is absolutely absurd. But that's a moot point anyways because it doesn't change the fact that the majority of the content in this game is something you spoke to as an 'exception'. You say being casual means you can do what you want with other people and have some fun with whatever build and weapon set you want? WOW ... sounds exactly like how OW PVE actually works. Seems to me your 'exception' that you claim is 'irrelevant' proves the game is made for casual players based on your own definition.

You can enter unranked PvP but it's not easy at all: one mistake and you get down within 1 - 3 seconds, if not max concentrated. Is this casual?

So you think when you play against people in a competitive game mode, they should just roll over for you so you wave the 'casual player' flag? I mean ... how can you not understand the difficulty of a competitive game mode is determined by the skill of the players in that mode? It's not casual for you because you die too fast? That makes no sense. No, you're just not good at it compared to other players ... that's all. That has nothing to do with it being casual or not.

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