48 000 Burn Damage In 3 Seconds

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132 you are doing this thing where you assume you are right again

Yes, how dare I assume that the thing I tested and confirmed is true ... is true. What, are you also telling this to the scientists who confirmed that theropods have feathers? Its called the scientific method mate. But then again, seems youre still hung up about being duped and tripling down even after being shown that you were duped.

https://imgur.com/gallery/8XRgX6s

this is 2 stacks of burning and 4 stacks of bleedingawaiting apology

Wait, you show a screenshot confirming what I said, and you assume it ... denies what I said? Count the burning ticks. Thats 8 ticks. Now according to you, that means 8 hits. Instead it shows 24 hits. Is it possible you miscounted the burning stacks, which were 3, and got hit for 3 burning 8 times. Like, idk, 3*8=

24

? Funny how things do be lining up. Likewise, bleeding shows 20 hits over 4 ticks. Once again, if we assume you miscounted and it was 5 bleeding stacks, that would give us 4*5=

20

. Once again, it oddly lines up perfectly.

my bad, I read through your first post where you explained it poorly.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rocket_Kick

-> its 2 burning

My guess is you mightve had the firearm trait. The one that causes burning on crit. Would also explain the stray bleeding procs, as those are also in the same traitline.

what I want you to realize is that death recap is kitten that doesnt show the full story, and combat log is what actually matters

Oh no, death recap is a mess. I dont disagree. But it does actually get the hits right. Its the damage thats, at times, off. Which is probably the case here.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:So... It's screenshot reading time:Burn: 48690 damage; 32 hitsTranslated, it mean that you took 32 hits of burn which mean that the 48k were applied over 32 seconds for an average burn damage of 1521.5 damage per seconds.

... what? Ok apparently not everyone knows how condis work in death recap. When it says 32 hits, that doesnt mean 32

ticks of damage

. Thats means he took damage from 32 stacks of burn in total. If you were to get 100 stacks of burning applied to you, downing you in one tick, and finishing you off in another tick, that wouldnt show as 2 hits. It would show as

200

hits. So no, its actually 15600 damage per second-ish.

It also mean that technically, over those 3 seconds you claim were enough to down you, you took an average of 4563.5 damage which may be close to half your total health pool if you are an thief, guardian or elementalist without any ressource investment into vitality. (Obviously those number are as unrealistic as your own because they do not take into account possible burn burst, like your's does not take into account the simple fact that you took those 48k over 32 hits but it does have the merit to put things into perspective).

Same mistake as above. He took an average of 45635 instead. Thats more than the entire lifetotal of a full tank warrior. Significantly more, actually.

Cheer up, over the same time frame, you could have taken the same amount of power damage from any AA in game.

Same mistake once more. In reality, no power build can maintain 15k dps over 3 seconds. Im not sure any can even reach 30k burst in 2 seconds.

For that to make sense, each stack of burn would do 1520 damage per tick (48690/32 = 1520).

There is no build possible in PvP that can make a single burn stack tick for that much. Not even 1/3rd of that amount.

Anyone looking at the Death Breakdown for serious analysis is never going to learn anything useful. It's buggy asf.

If we assume he really did take that much damage over 3 seconds, that must mean he had 30+ burn stacks on him. To reach that, a DH has to hit you 90, yes, NINETY, times. How are you managing to get hit 90 times in such a short window? And if a power build hit you 90 times, would you expect to still be alive?

I don't think it is 3s more 5-6 s this is possible with an cFB because at least the PvE built has 4 source of burning which are casted at the same time and SoJ does burning and they stack on each other. Yes there are more sec needed to prep this where did the guard get the might for this and what was the other built in this match up and why he/she didn't jump out of SoJ . From the looks of it the other where a Mirage

[Yasai.3549]

48k over 32 hits.Each tick was around 1.5k damage.

So yu basically sat there and ate 1.5k damage per second instead of yu know, cleansing it and moving away.Aight, it's clear here that Guardians need to be nerfed guys.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

its only strong in team fights.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Yasai.3549 said:48k over 32 hits.Each tick was around 1.5k damage.

So yu basically sat there and ate 1.5k damage per second instead of yu know, cleansing it and moving away.Aight, it's clear here that Guardians need to be nerfed guys.

Man do so many people seriously not know how death recap works? Its not 1.5k damage per second, or per tick. Its 1.5k damage per stack. If he had 10 stacks, then 3 seconds would be 30 hits. Yeesh.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:48k over 32 hits.Each tick was around 1.5k damage.

So yu basically sat there and ate 1.5k damage per second instead of yu know, cleansing it and moving away.Aight, it's clear here that Guardians need to be nerfed guys.

Man do so many people seriously not know how death recap works? Its not 1.5k damage per second, or per tick. Its 1.5k damage per

stack

. If he had 10 stacks, then 3 seconds would be 30 hits. Yeesh.

How are we reaching 1.5k a stack? Only thing I can't figure out here.

[Shao.7236]

Probably got Dragon Maw into SoJ, I typically get about 15-16 burns on me from just that happening.

Only Stability or Resistance can reliably save you from that.

[melandru.3876]

@"Shao.7236" said:Probably got Dragon Maw into SoJ, I typically get about 15-16 burns on me from just that happening.

Only Stability or Resistance can reliably save you from that.

but how?traited sword of justice is 4 hits= 4 burn stacksmaw = 1 hit

say the ideal situation the dh needed only 1 hit to proc f1 because he build up some f1 passive previously.traited f1 reduces the number of hits needed from 5 to 3 to proc f1.

so maw hit, hits once. 1 burn stack. soj hits 4 times = 1 more burn stack from f1 we are at 2 burn stacks now, + 4 from hitting all 4 hits with sword of justice.that is 6 burn stacks and nowhere the 15-16 you claim.

sounds like people here just blow up numbers to get a build that is meme nerfed because they "must fight on point" and take all hits.

dh is only a "threat" is you allow it to free cast when you cluster/blob as you give it more targets to hit. if you allow that you allready lost the game

[UNOwen.7132]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:48k over 32 hits.Each tick was around 1.5k damage.

So yu basically sat there and ate 1.5k damage per second instead of yu know, cleansing it and moving away.Aight, it's clear here that Guardians need to be nerfed guys.

Man do so many people seriously not know how death recap works? Its not 1.5k damage per second, or per tick. Its 1.5k damage per

stack

. If he had 10 stacks, then 3 seconds would be 30 hits. Yeesh.

How are we reaching 1.5k a stack? Only thing I can't figure out here.

The condi damage in death recap is often messy. Dont ask me why though, I dont really know. Might have something to do with damage resistances?

[saerni.2584]

You probably have each tick looking something like this:

1. 5 stacks
2. 10 stacks
3. 6 stacks
4. 5 stacks
5. 3 stacks
6. 2 stacks
7. 2 stacks

But, the damage is a little screwy because you don't have 48k HP before you are downed.

Assuming 20k HP you probably were downed within 3-4 seconds. The rest is piling on the damage on your downed body.

The spike was 5-7k per second. A cleanse would mean the rest wouldn't have been able to down you. But without reaction time you ate a ton of extra damage - including on your downed state.

[DeceiverX.8361]

UNOwen is actually right here, and people are shitting on the OP for all the wrong reasons. It operates how the game originally handled stacking conditions a la bleeding before they added the simplified conditions UI checkbox, which was made into a default option. Each tick of each stack is a separate number, and you can uncheck the UI option to see this visually. What you see as a DoT single number with the simplified conditions UI option isn't what the game registers as a unique source of damage. It works as it should because every tick of every stack is treated as a new source.

This is also why WvW lags with condition spikes. There's SO MUCH PROCESSING going on with all those numbers.

Release game for bleeding for example had each application of bleed apply a new number for every tick for every new stack. On bleed builds with rapid re-application like S/S war (flurry), D/D thief (caltrops + DB), and shortbow ranger (back/side AA+Entangle+Sharpening Stone+Barbed Precision), you'd see literally a constant stream of numbers pouring out of a given target every fraction of a second after when it was applied, which was deemed too cluttered in engagements with multiple targets (Hard to define who's taking the damage when you have 30+ numbers per second in a clump on-screen), so they simplified it all visually but not on the backend.

Edit: for clarity, because apparently nobody understand how conditions actually work, you can see all the "Unsimplified ticks" from the original UI approach in this video here:

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@melandru.3876 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:Probably got Dragon Maw into SoJ, I typically get about 15-16 burns on me from just that happening.

Only Stability or Resistance can reliably save you from that.

but how?traited sword of justice is 4 hits= 4 burn stacksmaw = 1 hit

say the ideal situation the dh needed only 1 hit to proc f1 because he build up some f1 passive previously.traited f1 reduces the number of hits needed from 5 to 3 to proc f1.

so maw hit, hits once. 1 burn stack. soj hits 4 times = 1 more burn stack from f1 we are at 2 burn stacks now, + 4 from hitting all 4 hits with sword of justice.that is 6 burn stacks and nowhere the 15-16 you claim.

sounds like people here just blow up numbers to get a build that is meme nerfed because they "must fight on point" and take all hits.

dh is only a "threat" is you allow it to free cast when you cluster/blob as you give it more targets to hit. if you allow that you allready lost the game

Your math is wrong I think SoJ gives 1 burning every 1 sec. I think you can have up to 4 of them .This mean

1 sec = 1 burn ( 1 SoJ)2 sec = 3 burns (2 SoJ)3 sec = 6 burns (3 SoJ)4sec = 10 burns (4 SoJ)5 sec = 14 burns (4 SoJ)This when I ignore the duration of the burns( 5 sec checked) but after this you get 4 burns every sec so long the SoJ stays and I still have the feeling this is too less possible the SoJ hit you multiply times a sec. This skill is basically the main source for burst dmg on all dps guard builds.

What you also have is 5 burns from torch and when you are a cFB 5 more burns (3s) from condi mantra and 4-5 burns from book 1 in 5 secadded all up is at least 27 burns in 5 sec . if you throw away renewed focus you could squeeze this in 3-4s but this is really the max what it is possible

I can also add in PvE the burst dmg from cFB spikes from really good players at 80k dps in the burst phase so I don't know what they nerfed in PvP compare to PvE so it not that unrealistic if you are cfb

[melandru.3876]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:Probably got Dragon Maw into SoJ, I typically get about 15-16 burns on me from just that happening.

Only Stability or Resistance can reliably save you from that.

but how?traited sword of justice is 4 hits= 4 burn stacksmaw = 1 hit

say the ideal situation the dh needed only 1 hit to proc f1 because he build up some f1 passive previously.traited f1 reduces the number of hits needed from 5 to 3 to proc f1.

so maw hit, hits once. 1 burn stack. soj hits 4 times = 1 more burn stack from f1 we are at 2 burn stacks now, + 4 from hitting all 4 hits with sword of justice.that is 6 burn stacks and nowhere the 15-16 you claim.

sounds like people here just blow up numbers to get a build that is meme nerfed because they "must fight on point" and take all hits.

dh is only a "threat" is you allow it to free cast when you cluster/blob as you give it more targets to hit. if you allow that you allready lost the game

Your math is wrong I think SoJ gives 1 burning every 1 sec. I think you can have up to 4 of them .This mean

1 sec = 1 burn ( 1 SoJ)2 sec = 2 burns (2 SoJ)3 sec = 5 burns (3 SoJ)4sec = 9 burns (4 SoJ)5 sec = 13 burns (4 SoJ)This when I ignore the duration of the burns( 5 sec checked) but after this you get 4 burns every sec so long the SoJ stays and I still have the feeling this is too less possible the SoJ hit you multiply times a sec. This skill is basically the main source for burst dmg on all dps guard builds.

What you also have is 5 burns from torch and when you are a cFB 5 more burns (3s) from condi mantra and 4-5 burns from book 1 in 5 secadded all up is at least 26 burns in 5 sec . if you throw away renewed focus you could squeeze this in 3-4s but this is really the max what it is possible

I can also add in PvE the burst dmg from cFB spikes from really good players at 80k dps in the burst phase so I don't know what they nerfed in PvP compare to PvE so it not that unrealistic if you are cfb

what?my math is wrong? i literally said that 1 cast of soj can give you up to 4 stacks given that all 4 hits, actually hitthen here you come claiming that.... " I think you can have up to 4 of them ." how is that not saying exactly what i said?

soj gives 1 stack every hit. 4 hits 4 stacks. <<<<=== straight from the post you quoteddh does not use torch dh uses sword/shield + scepter/focus

the 80k dps from really "good" players is randomness. it's called ash stealing (when multiple fb casts ashes of the just, the guy who applied first gets all the stacks counted toward him)so it can really be 5 of the worst firebrand you ever seen, literally horrible players but 1 of them is gonna burst high for a moment as he took all the ashes of the just stacks spiking his damage for some seconds.nothing good about that player, just "luck" on his side that he was first

[Shao.7236]

@melandru.3876 I'm taking the 3 seconds with a grain of salt without video evidence. However I am very aware of the kill potential a well timed dragon maw can do as a burn dh.

Because if you can't block, nullify or get out of said area, all the combined factors with SoJ can easily stack in a quick downstate.

It's not that people can't dodge, if you don't have utility to deal with the events, it's over. It's possible to port from stealth then place the trap at the same time just to finish off with SoJ burns.

[melandru.3876]

@Shao.7236 said:@"melandru.3876" I'm taking the 3 seconds with a grain of salt without video evidence. However I am very aware of the kill potential a well timed dragon maw can do as a burn dh.

Because if you can't block, nullify or get out of said area, all the combined factors with SoJ can easily stack in a quick downstate.

It's not that people can't dodge, if you don't have utility to deal with the events, it's over. It's possible to port from stealth then place the trap at the same time just to finish off with SoJ burns.

what?

in order to port from stealthyou allready have to place a trap beforehand you do know that right? so it's either giving up on maw, or giving up on procession. test of faith is not worth it better to use signet of judgement fot the "sustain" and stunbreakso unless you throw your heal away, on a build that is allready 1 way ride i don't see how this can turn out good lol

you are the guy claiming 15-16 burn stacks, i gave u the "real" numbers allready it's nearly 10 stacks less.maw does no dmg, the cc nerf gutted maw to have an amazing 5 tooltip dmg.all that maw does is the barrier to keep people inso that maw is harmless dmg-wise and soj is only 4 hits i really but really don't see how u die to 5-6 burn stacks. if you have no cleanse, or no resistance you would off died to pretty much any condi buildthe utility skill sanctuary, does the same as maw same cooldown and it alwo is a projectile bubble and a heal wink wink winkranged pressure beats dh, projectile bubble beats ranged pressure

[DanZu.6409]

I'm a new player, can you link to the burn dh build ?

[melandru.3876]

@"DanZu.6409" said:

I'm a new player, can you link to the burn dh build ?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWABs2x7lNwQYOMKWJO+WatMA-zZoKjEqgeTBHGA this is what i would use now in the2v2normally a different rune but the maps so small in 2v2 u don't need mobility from lynx, and the stealth from trapper runes are also silly since your team mate (who is not stealthed) will be by your side anyway giving away your position

[DanZu.6409]

@melandru.3876 said:

@"DanZu.6409" said:

I'm a new player, can you link to the burn dh build ?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWABs2x7lNwQYOMKWJO+WatMA-zZoKjEqgeTBHGA

this is what i would use now in the2v2normally a different rune but the maps so small in 2v2 u don't need mobility from lynx, and the stealth from trapper runes are also silly since your team mate (who is not stealthed) will be by your side anyway giving away your position

I constantly meet guards with a glowing shield in 2 vs 2, what is this build?

[melandru.3876]

@DanZu.6409 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@DanZu.6409 said:

I'm a new player, can you link to the burn dh build ?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWABs2x7lNwQYOMKWJO+WatMA-zZoKjEqgeTBHGA

this is what i would use now in the2v2normally a different rune but the maps so small in 2v2 u don't need mobility from lynx, and the stealth from trapper runes are also silly since your team mate (who is not stealthed) will be by your side anyway giving away your position

I constantly meet guards with a glowing shield in 2 vs 2, what is this build?

that can be literally everything not sure how i need to visualize this vague discription

it could be the shield created around them from focus 5it could be the dome created from shield 5it could be insert random aura, most likely light aura

way to many factors

[Shao.7236]

@melandru.3876 Elaborate on throwing your heal away.

Traps can also be strategically placed at the benefit of later while the cooldown is going down. Doesn't have to be right away, that goes very well in combination of Trapper rune for unseen ambushes or getting in the flank to kill some necro's wurm so they have nothing to back out of the Dragon's Maw in the first place.

It's easy to get 15 burns stack on a target that can't move, I did mention with all combined factors down the line, obviously SoJ can't applied so much by itself but that's not the only thing applying burning in here.

[melandru.3876]

@Shao.7236 said:@melandru.3876 Elaborate on throwing your heal away.

Traps can also be strategically placed at the benefit of later while the cooldown is going down. Doesn't have to be right away, that goes very well in combination of Trapper rune for unseen ambushes or getting in the flank to kill some necro's wurm so they have nothing to back out of the Dragon's Maw in the first place.

It's easy to get 15 burns stack on a target that can't move, I did mention with all combined factors down the line, obviously SoJ can't applied so much by itself but that's not the only thing applying burning in here.

what is there to elaborate?you made the claim that the dh can port (from stealth) to an target and plant traps at his location (in stealth) to land his combo

i said: in order to get stealth, the dh has to actually put a trap beforehand to get the actual stealth, before he can port and put some traps reducing his combo UNLESSi went further, and went with your theoretical version of the dh aiming to plant both his offensive traps on target(from stealth) . in order to do that, he had to put his third and last trap which would be HEAL first, to get stealth, to then try to land his combothe dh, that is allready a glass cannon, now with his heal allready casted (rip active heal part) now has the high risk of the fight not going how he want to (smart player not falling to a predictable movement) and his heal is allready cast and not even guaranteed to be triggered (rip trap activation part)so all that is left is f2 for +- 3.9k heal. shield 5 for +- 1.3k heal and that's it.

if you can land 15 burn stacks on a single target then you 100% are playing in low, very low, divisions.

and i'll end this here, this is getting ridiculous

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

In reality, no power build can maintain 15k dps over 3 seconds. Im not sure any can even reach 30k burst in 2 seconds.

Oh you can on some power builds. But those kinds of skill cycles are complex and difficult to land. In no way are nuclear power bursts nearly as easy to land successfully as nuclear condi bursts and that really defines the problem behind condi builds. It's not that condi builds are stronger than power, it's that they're just too easy to use.

[thundermarch.5643]

The rune of trapper is stupid and DH shoudn't have access to sthealth on my opinion

[Shao.7236]

@melandru.3876 said:

@Shao.7236 said:@melandru.3876 Elaborate on throwing your heal away.

Traps can also be strategically placed at the benefit of later while the cooldown is going down. Doesn't have to be right away, that goes very well in combination of Trapper rune for unseen ambushes or getting in the flank to kill some necro's wurm so they have nothing to back out of the Dragon's Maw in the first place.

It's easy to get 15 burns stack on a target that can't move, I did mention with all combined factors down the line, obviously SoJ can't applied so much by itself but that's not the only thing applying burning in here.

what is there to elaborate?you made the claim that the dh can port (from stealth) to an target and plant traps at his location (in stealth) to land his combo

i said: in order to get stealth, the dh has to actually put a trap beforehand to get the actual stealth, before he can port and put some traps reducing his combo UNLESSi went further, and went with your theoretical version of the dh aiming to plant both his offensive traps on target(from stealth) . in order to do that, he had to put his third and last trap which would be HEAL first, to get stealth, to then try to land his combothe dh, that is allready a glass cannon, now with his heal allready casted (rip active heal part) now has the high risk of the fight not going how he want to (smart player not falling to a predictable movement) and his heal is allready cast and not even guaranteed to be triggered (rip trap activation part)so all that is left is f2 for +- 3.9k heal. shield 5 for +- 1.3k heal and that's it.

if you can land 15 burn stacks on a single target then you 100% are playing in low, very low, divisions.

and i'll end this here, this is getting ridiculous

Dude, are you memeing? Carrion is not full glass canon, there is reliable sustain for what it is, guardian from the very basic always does. Would be considered glass if it was Destroyer/Grieving.

I asked to elaborate on why using a trap early is bad, it's a trap, you have no reason to hold on it when you can have another back to back not long after.

It's really easy to fall back to traps that are already set on DH, to say it's not viable setting a trap to use later while the next one could be ready after is laughable.

Most builds currently in 2v2 have little to no blocks, resistance or stability. It's easy to melt anything when knowing what they've already used as you can straight up Symbol of blade into dragon maw and use the hell out of them with everything you got while they can't escape.

I guess that playing on top of the board is still low divisions rofl, who would have hilariously known. Thanks for the compliment, I must be THAT good at the game even thought the build we are talking about is rated meta.

15 burns is not impossible to apply within the right plays, it never was uncommon to do so. Permeating Wrath is going to get nerfed soon anyway, mostly because it's stronger than it's PvE or WvW version anyway.

[Stephen.6312]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

In reality, no power build can maintain 15k dps over 3 seconds. Im not sure any can even reach 30k burst in 2 seconds.

Oh you can on some power builds. But those kinds of skill cycles are complex and difficult to land. In no way are nuclear power bursts nearly as easy to land successfully as nuclear condi bursts and that really defines the problem behind condi builds. It's not that condi builds are stronger than power, it's that they're just too easy to use.

Good point. Condi DPS doesn't require the same mechanical work rate as power DPS.