Lucentfir.7430 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 @Stand The Wall.6987 said:lich auto was skipped by the megapatch. why should it be allowed to remain if anets intent is to lower damage across the board?A better question to ask would be if they had all that time since the February patch to now, why hasn't it been touched yet. Makes you think where those faster balance patches went. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:I shall end this debacle over Lich Form for all time by revealing 3 ancient secrets known only by the best players and the best players tend to win.The 3 secrets are:LOSThis single video is a sacred unveiling of how to use the 3 secrets. Prepare yourself before watching it, as it may be the single largest revelation you have ever experienced in life. It may come with large emotional responses, seeing bright colors, and and increase in your GW2 rating.https://www.twitch.tv/videos/948214418hmm... a staged fight where you told a necro to start a 1v1 with lich while you were ooc with full cds, and had a nicely planned pillar to run around, and you still got taken down to half health. Im not sure what point you are trying to prove here, i mean, after lich fades he just stands there not even trying to fight.What's even better is in the video you can see the reason why LoS isn't a valid counter argument; he still gets hit around the pillar. He also used both dodges to even get to the pillar, so no avoiding any other forms of pressure, and the necro wasn't even buffed up on boons or anything else, this was just raw Lich damage. This isnt at all a rebuttal to the idea that Lich damage being busted. If anything it's a more definitive showcase of why the only true safety is projectile blocks, and even those are gotten around by unblockables. So bring a projectile block or just die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Haters gonna hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleCenta.2190 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 @Leonidrex.5649 said:@"Shroud.2307" said:And what does it get in return? Offense is a Necro's defense because it lacks scaling defenses. If something(s) can negate/tank its damage it has nothing else to defend itself. It's weak to CC, has poor sustain outside of Shroud, is immobile, and dies faster than most things to focus fire because it has no blocks, invulnerability, or ways to escape assuming a Flesh Wurm isn't pre-summoned.Lich Form is the very same. It has one stack of pulsing Stability which literally anything can take advantage of, no damage reduction, no option to enter Shroud, no Blinds, blocks, reflects, invulnerability... It's nothing but high damage to force you to stay away from it or die. If you reduce the damage too much and things can start tanking attacks long enough to force the Necro out of the transformation then it literally becomes useless (hence why anyone with a brain spamming Blinds, CC's, or damage on it will force the Necro out of the transformation immediately).It's slow and squishy. As soon as you see the transform, take cover. You only have to do it for 10 seconds, and you can't tell me there's "no where to hide". Yes, the damage is crazy high. And yes it can 2 shot you... So can; Soulbeast, Spellbreaker, Weaver, Mesmer/Chrono, Scrapper/Holo, Dragonhunter, etc. Various things have combos or skills that can hit 10k+ and kill you in a heartbeat. Why is Lich Form a problem when it's on a 120second cooldown?I just don't get the hate for this elite when you can trigger a random DH trap you didn't know was there and take a 9k tick but a giant Lich at walking pace that a small shrub can save you from is such an issue for some people.70k hp is necros defense. almost nothing can kill reaper with full shroud as I have tried on sic em soulbeast and after landing every single skill I barely got them out of shroud.lack of mobility or ways to deal with cc ? please, they run 3x stun breakes, stab on lich. Btw you can still dodge when you are lich form and it also has a fear.Its not used not since its bad but it takes time to cast, and in that time you might as well throw 7k dmg auto instead off hard CC.Mobility ? what is perma swiftness with speed runes, wurm, spectral-walk port AND low cd reaper dash then if not a mobility skill ?If that is low mobility then I am afraid to ask what is considered good mobility. And after rune of speed nerf you can just take lynx and trade some mobility for extra dmg.And as for bad healing? consume condi will heal for ~9k +, constant healing through leeching from blood magic, staff gives regeneration on low CD, and blood magic has dodge trait that gives regeneration too. This is NOT a low sustain.If you can't kill a reaper with a sb it's your problem. Lich is bad asf the more you go up in rating. Everytime there's a 3v3 or 2v2 season same old story, lich is op etc etc. It's one of the most counterplayable spell in the entire game and it has a fking absurd cd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Its sad but the majority of necros u fight nowadays just lich at any sign of trouble and auto, its almost as bad as all the necros in unranked using the minion build who let their minions do damage while they literally just spam buttons, is this what kinda playstyle anet wants? lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuRkEr.9462 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Lich form is pretty powerful, but I rarely get any use out of it at higher levels of play. Many classes have projectile reflect / area denial skills, soon as I hit lich they basically shut it down. It really does amazing against unskilled players or players just got caught out in the open with no cooldowns though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffypaws.2860 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 The damage coefficient needs to be toned down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakonhammer.2148 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 I think part of the problem with lich form is the tells for when it starts are pretty inconsistent, at least on my end. Yes, it turns you into a giant lich for its duration, but I have noticed half the time my game is slow loading the new model and the enemy necro player model just disappears for one second, two or even three for me, meanwhile I am getting hit for big chunks straight away, then the lich model finally loads in.As someone who has played both with and against it, it is easy to lock down if you save up projectile blocks or boonstrip + CC / two CCs you can throw at it in under the 3s stability refresh interval, you will likely have one of those three options at least (or terrain etc. to block LoS), but the delay between the necro model disappearing and the lich model appearing has gotten me burst down several times before I can even realise it has been activated/react. Particularly vs quickness lich form.If they can't resolve the model swapping issue, adding a new particle effect on the necro as they begin to cast would go a long way towards making room for counterplay, or maybe as the cast begins having a temporary model hidden within the player/lich models that disappears after the cast is over. Just something so you are not getting hit by an 'invisible' necro/lich. That will always be annoying.I wouldn't be against it getting blunted and having a lower CD and/or higher duration, or getting otherwise reworked, but please no Plague form -> Plaguelands-style rework, Plaguelands is hands down one of the most boring elites. Whatever the case, lich form definitely needs to be addressed (mainly in PvP, it can stay as is in PvE). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 @Leonidrex.5649 said:@"Shroud.2307" said:And what does it get in return? Offense is a Necro's defense because it lacks scaling defenses. If something(s) can negate/tank its damage it has nothing else to defend itself. It's weak to CC, has poor sustain outside of Shroud, is immobile, and dies faster than most things to focus fire because it has no blocks, invulnerability, or ways to escape assuming a Flesh Wurm isn't pre-summoned.Lich Form is the very same. It has one stack of pulsing Stability which literally anything can take advantage of, no damage reduction, no option to enter Shroud, no Blinds, blocks, reflects, invulnerability... It's nothing but high damage to force you to stay away from it or die. If you reduce the damage too much and things can start tanking attacks long enough to force the Necro out of the transformation then it literally becomes useless (hence why anyone with a brain spamming Blinds, CC's, or damage on it will force the Necro out of the transformation immediately).It's slow and squishy. As soon as you see the transform, take cover. You only have to do it for 10 seconds, and you can't tell me there's "no where to hide". Yes, the damage is crazy high. And yes it can 2 shot you... So can; Soulbeast, Spellbreaker, Weaver, Mesmer/Chrono, Scrapper/Holo, Dragonhunter, etc. Various things have combos or skills that can hit 10k+ and kill you in a heartbeat. Why is Lich Form a problem when it's on a 120second cooldown?I just don't get the hate for this elite when you can trigger a random DH trap you didn't know was there and take a 9k tick but a giant Lich at walking pace that a small shrub can save you from is such an issue for some people.almost nothing can kill reaper with full shroud as I have tried on sic em soulbeast and after landing every single skill I barely got them out of shroud.Thanks for the laugh! You are obviously far from being representative. Everyone who writes this nonsense is not representative. This statement is an excellent showcase of incompetence. This is so wrong, it's not even necessary to argue against it.If people, who write things like this, have a problem killing lich: No, it's not lich, that is your problem here (it's your incompetence).And I say it for the 100th time in this forum: I hate lich! it's dumb! But for other reasons than most people think in this thread.I should maybe make a video of my lich noob destructions. This forum needs it to get gud at countering that dumb elite, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 @KrHome.1920 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:@"Shroud.2307" said:And what does it get in return? Offense is a Necro's defense because it lacks scaling defenses. If something(s) can negate/tank its damage it has nothing else to defend itself. It's weak to CC, has poor sustain outside of Shroud, is immobile, and dies faster than most things to focus fire because it has no blocks, invulnerability, or ways to escape assuming a Flesh Wurm isn't pre-summoned.Lich Form is the very same. It has one stack of pulsing Stability which literally anything can take advantage of, no damage reduction, no option to enter Shroud, no Blinds, blocks, reflects, invulnerability... It's nothing but high damage to force you to stay away from it or die. If you reduce the damage too much and things can start tanking attacks long enough to force the Necro out of the transformation then it literally becomes useless (hence why anyone with a brain spamming Blinds, CC's, or damage on it will force the Necro out of the transformation immediately).It's slow and squishy. As soon as you see the transform, take cover. You only have to do it for 10 seconds, and you can't tell me there's "no where to hide". Yes, the damage is crazy high. And yes it can 2 shot you... So can; Soulbeast, Spellbreaker, Weaver, Mesmer/Chrono, Scrapper/Holo, Dragonhunter, etc. Various things have combos or skills that can hit 10k+ and kill you in a heartbeat. Why is Lich Form a problem when it's on a 120second cooldown?I just don't get the hate for this elite when you can trigger a random DH trap you didn't know was there and take a 9k tick but a giant Lich at walking pace that a small shrub can save you from is such an issue for some people.almost nothing can kill reaper with full shroud as I have tried on sic em soulbeast and after landing every single skill I barely got them out of shroud.Thanks for the laugh! You are obviously far from being representative. Everyone who writes this nonsense is not representative. This statement is an excellent showcase of incompetence. This is so wrong, it's not even necessary to argue against it.If people, who write things like this, have a problem killing lich: No, it's not lich, that is your problem here (it's your incompetence).And I say it for the 100th time in this forum: I hate lich! it's dumb! But for other reasons than most people think in this thread.I should maybe make a video of my lich noob destructions. This forum needs it to get gud at countering that dumb elite, I guess.Am I correct that u believe its ok for a transform skill to have 5k+ auto's. If this is true than u are also not representative. Only a necro main would believe its ok.... oh wait. If any class had 5+k autos during a transform skill regardless of class or any other skills within that transform skill most players would consider that absurd except of course those who use that class and skill, just saying.I'm sure if warrior did 6 or 7k auto attacks during rampage u urself would be stating their autos need nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 @KrHome.1920 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:@"Shroud.2307" said:And what does it get in return? Offense is a Necro's defense because it lacks scaling defenses. If something(s) can negate/tank its damage it has nothing else to defend itself. It's weak to CC, has poor sustain outside of Shroud, is immobile, and dies faster than most things to focus fire because it has no blocks, invulnerability, or ways to escape assuming a Flesh Wurm isn't pre-summoned.Lich Form is the very same. It has one stack of pulsing Stability which literally anything can take advantage of, no damage reduction, no option to enter Shroud, no Blinds, blocks, reflects, invulnerability... It's nothing but high damage to force you to stay away from it or die. If you reduce the damage too much and things can start tanking attacks long enough to force the Necro out of the transformation then it literally becomes useless (hence why anyone with a brain spamming Blinds, CC's, or damage on it will force the Necro out of the transformation immediately).It's slow and squishy. As soon as you see the transform, take cover. You only have to do it for 10 seconds, and you can't tell me there's "no where to hide". Yes, the damage is crazy high. And yes it can 2 shot you... So can; Soulbeast, Spellbreaker, Weaver, Mesmer/Chrono, Scrapper/Holo, Dragonhunter, etc. Various things have combos or skills that can hit 10k+ and kill you in a heartbeat. Why is Lich Form a problem when it's on a 120second cooldown?I just don't get the hate for this elite when you can trigger a random DH trap you didn't know was there and take a 9k tick but a giant Lich at walking pace that a small shrub can save you from is such an issue for some people.almost nothing can kill reaper with full shroud as I have tried on sic em soulbeast and after landing every single skill I barely got them out of shroud.Thanks for the laugh! You are obviously far from being representative. Everyone who writes this nonsense is not representative. This statement is an excellent showcase of incompetence. This is so wrong, it's not even necessary to argue against it.If people, who write things like this, have a problem killing lich: No, it's not lich, that is your problem here (it's your incompetence).And I say it for the 100th time in this forum: I hate lich! it's dumb! But for other reasons than most people think in this thread.I should maybe make a video of my lich noob destructions. This forum needs it to get gud at countering that dumb elite, I guess.Don't worry it will prob get smiter booned and have long cd and do less than half dmg and peeps will move on to commplaining about reaper which will be deleted in pvp and then nec wil cry about how their rep in pvp is gone down and forced to reroll again, cause we can't have a sane argument about balance with out WAAAAAAA a thief killed me WAAAAA DADDY ANET delete it please WAAAA, and when it isn't like that its some other class rince repeat until the game becomes a mess and folks start posting instead of deleting classes balance, well NO DUH SHERLOCK!! thats what we should be doing instead of deleting classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 @Psycoprophet.8107 said:@KrHome.1920 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:@"Shroud.2307" said:And what does it get in return? Offense is a Necro's defense because it lacks scaling defenses. If something(s) can negate/tank its damage it has nothing else to defend itself. It's weak to CC, has poor sustain outside of Shroud, is immobile, and dies faster than most things to focus fire because it has no blocks, invulnerability, or ways to escape assuming a Flesh Wurm isn't pre-summoned.Lich Form is the very same. It has one stack of pulsing Stability which literally anything can take advantage of, no damage reduction, no option to enter Shroud, no Blinds, blocks, reflects, invulnerability... It's nothing but high damage to force you to stay away from it or die. If you reduce the damage too much and things can start tanking attacks long enough to force the Necro out of the transformation then it literally becomes useless (hence why anyone with a brain spamming Blinds, CC's, or damage on it will force the Necro out of the transformation immediately).It's slow and squishy. As soon as you see the transform, take cover. You only have to do it for 10 seconds, and you can't tell me there's "no where to hide". Yes, the damage is crazy high. And yes it can 2 shot you... So can; Soulbeast, Spellbreaker, Weaver, Mesmer/Chrono, Scrapper/Holo, Dragonhunter, etc. Various things have combos or skills that can hit 10k+ and kill you in a heartbeat. Why is Lich Form a problem when it's on a 120second cooldown?I just don't get the hate for this elite when you can trigger a random DH trap you didn't know was there and take a 9k tick but a giant Lich at walking pace that a small shrub can save you from is such an issue for some people.almost nothing can kill reaper with full shroud as I have tried on sic em soulbeast and after landing every single skill I barely got them out of shroud.Thanks for the laugh! You are obviously far from being representative. Everyone who writes this nonsense is not representative. This statement is an excellent showcase of incompetence. This is so wrong, it's not even necessary to argue against it.If people, who write things like this, have a problem killing lich: No, it's not lich, that is your problem here (it's your incompetence).And I say it for the 100th time in this forum: I hate lich! it's dumb! But for other reasons than most people think in this thread.I should maybe make a video of my lich noob destructions. This forum needs it to get gud at countering that dumb elite, I guess.Am I correct that u believe its ok for a transform skill to have 5k+ auto's. If this is true than u are also not representative. Only a necro main would believe its ok.... oh wait. If any class had 5+k autos during a transform skill regardless of class or any other skills within that transform skill most players would consider that absurd except of course those who use that class and skill, just saying.I'm sure if warrior did 6 or 7k auto attacks during rampage u urself would be stating their autos need nerfed.First of all a reaper that sustains a sic em soulbeast (which btw. is almost impossible at equal skill levels in pvp due to toughness being pretty rare) does not do 5k autos with lich. People are buildmixing here - that's also very typical for these kind of threads.Since anet did not nerf lich yet, despite months of complains and lich is not meta in any tournament, I think I am the definition of representative.And prophet, please, before lich has to see any nerfs, p/d condi teef has to be looked at. This is the easiest build in the game currently at skill levels that have issues dealing with lich, because it can nuke low skilled targets every few seconds and not just once every 150 seconds.Isn't the main argument here, that the game should be balanced at lower skill levels than plat? Well, then start with condi teef please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 @KrHome.1920 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:@"Shroud.2307" said:And what does it get in return? Offense is a Necro's defense because it lacks scaling defenses. If something(s) can negate/tank its damage it has nothing else to defend itself. It's weak to CC, has poor sustain outside of Shroud, is immobile, and dies faster than most things to focus fire because it has no blocks, invulnerability, or ways to escape assuming a Flesh Wurm isn't pre-summoned.Lich Form is the very same. It has one stack of pulsing Stability which literally anything can take advantage of, no damage reduction, no option to enter Shroud, no Blinds, blocks, reflects, invulnerability... It's nothing but high damage to force you to stay away from it or die. If you reduce the damage too much and things can start tanking attacks long enough to force the Necro out of the transformation then it literally becomes useless (hence why anyone with a brain spamming Blinds, CC's, or damage on it will force the Necro out of the transformation immediately).It's slow and squishy. As soon as you see the transform, take cover. You only have to do it for 10 seconds, and you can't tell me there's "no where to hide". Yes, the damage is crazy high. And yes it can 2 shot you... So can; Soulbeast, Spellbreaker, Weaver, Mesmer/Chrono, Scrapper/Holo, Dragonhunter, etc. Various things have combos or skills that can hit 10k+ and kill you in a heartbeat. Why is Lich Form a problem when it's on a 120second cooldown?I just don't get the hate for this elite when you can trigger a random DH trap you didn't know was there and take a 9k tick but a giant Lich at walking pace that a small shrub can save you from is such an issue for some people.almost nothing can kill reaper with full shroud as I have tried on sic em soulbeast and after landing every single skill I barely got them out of shroud.Thanks for the laugh! You are obviously far from being representative. Everyone who writes this nonsense is not representative. This statement is an excellent showcase of incompetence. This is so wrong, it's not even necessary to argue against it.If people, who write things like this, have a problem killing lich: No, it's not lich, that is your problem here (it's your incompetence).And I say it for the 100th time in this forum: I hate lich! it's dumb! But for other reasons than most people think in this thread.I should maybe make a video of my lich noob destructions. This forum needs it to get gud at countering that dumb elite, I guess.I invite to re-read what I wrote, reading and understanding what you read is important skill in ones life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 @KrHome.1920 said:@Psycoprophet.8107 said:@KrHome.1920 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:@"Shroud.2307" said:And what does it get in return? Offense is a Necro's defense because it lacks scaling defenses. If something(s) can negate/tank its damage it has nothing else to defend itself. It's weak to CC, has poor sustain outside of Shroud, is immobile, and dies faster than most things to focus fire because it has no blocks, invulnerability, or ways to escape assuming a Flesh Wurm isn't pre-summoned.Lich Form is the very same. It has one stack of pulsing Stability which literally anything can take advantage of, no damage reduction, no option to enter Shroud, no Blinds, blocks, reflects, invulnerability... It's nothing but high damage to force you to stay away from it or die. If you reduce the damage too much and things can start tanking attacks long enough to force the Necro out of the transformation then it literally becomes useless (hence why anyone with a brain spamming Blinds, CC's, or damage on it will force the Necro out of the transformation immediately).It's slow and squishy. As soon as you see the transform, take cover. You only have to do it for 10 seconds, and you can't tell me there's "no where to hide". Yes, the damage is crazy high. And yes it can 2 shot you... So can; Soulbeast, Spellbreaker, Weaver, Mesmer/Chrono, Scrapper/Holo, Dragonhunter, etc. Various things have combos or skills that can hit 10k+ and kill you in a heartbeat. Why is Lich Form a problem when it's on a 120second cooldown?I just don't get the hate for this elite when you can trigger a random DH trap you didn't know was there and take a 9k tick but a giant Lich at walking pace that a small shrub can save you from is such an issue for some people.almost nothing can kill reaper with full shroud as I have tried on sic em soulbeast and after landing every single skill I barely got them out of shroud.Thanks for the laugh! You are obviously far from being representative. Everyone who writes this nonsense is not representative. This statement is an excellent showcase of incompetence. This is so wrong, it's not even necessary to argue against it.If people, who write things like this, have a problem killing lich: No, it's not lich, that is your problem here (it's your incompetence).And I say it for the 100th time in this forum: I hate lich! it's dumb! But for other reasons than most people think in this thread.I should maybe make a video of my lich noob destructions. This forum needs it to get gud at countering that dumb elite, I guess.Am I correct that u believe its ok for a transform skill to have 5k+ auto's. If this is true than u are also not representative. Only a necro main would believe its ok.... oh wait. If any class had 5+k autos during a transform skill regardless of class or any other skills within that transform skill most players would consider that absurd except of course those who use that class and skill, just saying.I'm sure if warrior did 6 or 7k auto attacks during rampage u urself would be stating their autos need nerfed.First of all a reaper that sustains a sic em soulbeast (which btw. is almost impossible at equal skill levels in pvp due to toughness being pretty rare) does not do 5k autos with lich. People are buildmixing here - that's also very typical for these kind of threads.Since anet did not nerf lich yet, despite months of complains and lich is not meta in any tournament, I think I am the definition of representative.And prophet, please, before lich has to see any nerfs, p/d condi teef has to be looked at. This is the easiest build in the game currently at skill levels that have issues dealing with lich, because it can nuke low skilled targets every few seconds and not just once every 150 seconds.Isn't the main argument here, that the game should be balanced at lower skill levels than plat? Well, then start with condi teef please!you are using a flawed argument off X is more broken then Y so Y is fine and there is nothing wrong with Y.The fact that rev is broken as fuck at everything doesnt give a free pass for other classes/skills to be retardedly overpowered.Wanting lich auto to not hit for fucking 7k+ is not me wanting necro/reaper dead, as I in fact like reapers way more then I like fucking scourges or core necros, but the fact remains that lich for as it stands is a stupid skill. And all necro mains/players come out of woodwork, to pretend their precious reaper is this Fragile, Immobile poor little defense-less kitten that just gets stunned and dies and it NEEEEEDS lich form. Reaper is tanky as fuck and has tools to deal with CC.Nerf the ever living shit out off this bunker/sustain spam going on and classes like reaper wont need fucking 7k dmg autos to kill things. But nah lets get personally upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroud.2307 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Am I correct that u believe its ok for a transform skill to have 5k+ auto's. If this is true than u are also not representative. Only a necro main would believe its ok.... oh wait. If any class had 5+k autos during a transform skill regardless of class or any other skills within that transform skill most players would consider that absurd except of course those who use that class and skill, just saying.I'm sure if warrior did 6 or 7k auto attacks during rampage u urself would be stating their autos need nerfed.Bruh, you don't even need to elite transform to do 10 - 15k crits with Soulbeast. Maul, Worldly Impact, Merged Porcine Maul, "Sic 'Em!" Rapid Fire, Winter's Bite... Various attacks that two shot most builds. Same could be said of DH with its 10k+ Trap ticks or True Shot.I've said more than once that I agree with people who say Lich Form damage is too high. But I also don't think it needs to be nerfed because the duration already has been and ANet clearly sees it the same way that I do-offense is Necro's ( and Lichs' ) defense. It needs to do damage that nothing else can trade with or it's useless. If anything can facetank Lich or pop a reflect the Necro will near instantly leave the transformation because it's not worth it for the Necro to trade. Same reason anything that can trade with a Reaper pretty well hard counters it. Drop Lich autos to 2k and suddenly no one's going to use it because literally everything in the game would be able to CC it to death or facetank the autos and force the Necro out of the transformation in 2seconds. Kite the damn thing, or if you have the option to do it use some reflects, Blinds, a Block, etc.I understand a good Necro will wait/bait out those things, but you can make this argument about anything. Expect that they are going to Lich on you and have a defensive option ready to deal with it. You literally only have to LOS for TEN SECONDS if you don't have any cooldowns left, against something that moves at walking pace.The only reason I aggressively defend this as a Necro main isn't because I don't want to lose "OP" thing. It's because I know ANet is unlikely to give Lich Form anything in return if they nerf the damage, and it will be useless afterward.If they increased the duration to 20seconds and reduced the recharge on all Lich Form skills, but nerfed the damage, okay. I might be happy with that. Otherwise, no, you can't gut the damage and give it nothing back because it is already so easy to counter and offers little else outside of that damage.Going Lich is like saying "if you don't get away from me you'll die. If I don't make you run, I die." Not, "LOL, I win." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 @Shroud.2307 said:@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Am I correct that u believe its ok for a transform skill to have 5k+ auto's. If this is true than u are also not representative. Only a necro main would believe its ok.... oh wait. If any class had 5+k autos during a transform skill regardless of class or any other skills within that transform skill most players would consider that absurd except of course those who use that class and skill, just saying.I'm sure if warrior did 6 or 7k auto attacks during rampage u urself would be stating their autos need nerfed.Bruh, you don't even need to elite transform to do 10 - 15k crits with Soulbeast. Maul, Worldly Impact, Merged Porcine Maul, "Sic 'Em!" Rapid Fire, Winter's Bite... Various attacks that two shot most builds. Same could be said of DH with its 10k+ Trap ticks or True Shot.I've said more than once that I agree with people who say Lich Form damage is too high. But I also don't think it needs to be nerfed because the duration already has been and ANet clearly sees it the same way that I do-offense is Necro's ( and Lichs' ) defense. It needs to do damage that nothing else can trade with or it's useless. If anything can facetank Lich or pop a reflect the Necro will near instantly leave the transformation because it's not worth it for the Necro to trade. Same reason anything that can trade with a Reaper pretty well hard counters it. Drop Lich autos to 2k and suddenly no one's going to use it because literally everything in the game would be able to CC it to death or facetank the autos and force the Necro out of the transformation in 2seconds. Kite the kitten thing, or if you have the option to do it use some reflects, Blinds, a Block, etc.I understand a good Necro will wait/bait out those things, but you can make this argument about anything. Expect that they are going to Lich on you and have a defensive option ready to deal with it. You literally only have to LOS for TEN SECONDS if you don't have any cooldowns left, against something that moves at walking pace.The only reason I aggressively defend this as a Necro main isn't because I don't want to lose "OP" thing. It's because I know ANet is unlikely to give Lich Form anything in return if they nerf the damage, and it will be useless afterward.If they increased the duration to 20seconds and reduced the recharge on all Lich Form skills, but nerfed the damage, okay. I might be happy with that. Otherwise, no, you can't gut the damage and give it nothing back because it is already so easy to counter and offers little else outside of that damage.Going Lich is like saying "if you don't get away from me you'll die. If I don't make you run, I die." Not, "LOL, I win."????? Not talking about possible bursts classes can do im talking about auto's which are spamnable, if ranger was able to pop a skill than spam lb or gs auto attacks for 5k+ damage ideas that whatever allowed them to do so would be grossly op as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroud.2307 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 @Psycoprophet.8107 said:@Shroud.2307 said:@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Am I correct that u believe its ok for a transform skill to have 5k+ auto's. If this is true than u are also not representative. Only a necro main would believe its ok.... oh wait. If any class had 5+k autos during a transform skill regardless of class or any other skills within that transform skill most players would consider that absurd except of course those who use that class and skill, just saying.I'm sure if warrior did 6 or 7k auto attacks during rampage u urself would be stating their autos need nerfed.Bruh, you don't even need to elite transform to do 10 - 15k crits with Soulbeast. Maul, Worldly Impact, Merged Porcine Maul, "Sic 'Em!" Rapid Fire, Winter's Bite... Various attacks that two shot most builds. Same could be said of DH with its 10k+ Trap ticks or True Shot.I've said more than once that I agree with people who say Lich Form damage is too high. But I also don't think it needs to be nerfed because the duration already has been and ANet clearly sees it the same way that I do-offense is Necro's ( and Lichs' ) defense. It needs to do damage that nothing else can trade with or it's useless. If anything can facetank Lich or pop a reflect the Necro will near instantly leave the transformation because it's not worth it for the Necro to trade. Same reason anything that can trade with a Reaper pretty well hard counters it. Drop Lich autos to 2k and suddenly no one's going to use it because literally everything in the game would be able to CC it to death or facetank the autos and force the Necro out of the transformation in 2seconds. Kite the kitten thing, or if you have the option to do it use some reflects, Blinds, a Block, etc.I understand a good Necro will wait/bait out those things, but you can make this argument about anything. Expect that they are going to Lich on you and have a defensive option ready to deal with it. You literally only have to LOS for TEN SECONDS if you don't have any cooldowns left, against something that moves at walking pace.The only reason I aggressively defend this as a Necro main isn't because I don't want to lose "OP" thing. It's because I know ANet is unlikely to give Lich Form anything in return if they nerf the damage, and it will be useless afterward.If they increased the duration to 20seconds and reduced the recharge on all Lich Form skills, but nerfed the damage, okay. I might be happy with that. Otherwise, no, you can't gut the damage and give it nothing back because it is already so easy to counter and offers little else outside of that damage.Going Lich is like saying "if you don't get away from me you'll die. If I don't make you run, I die." Not, "LOL, I win."????? Not talking about possible bursts classes can do im talking about auto's which are spamnable, if ranger was able to pop a skill than spam lb or gs auto attacks for 5k+ damage ideas that whatever allowed them to do so would be grossly op as well.OWP + GS autos is pretty damn near 5k autos. Which is more of a fair comparison given it's an elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 @KrHome.1920 said:@Psycoprophet.8107 said:@KrHome.1920 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:@"Shroud.2307" said:And what does it get in return? Offense is a Necro's defense because it lacks scaling defenses. If something(s) can negate/tank its damage it has nothing else to defend itself. It's weak to CC, has poor sustain outside of Shroud, is immobile, and dies faster than most things to focus fire because it has no blocks, invulnerability, or ways to escape assuming a Flesh Wurm isn't pre-summoned.Lich Form is the very same. It has one stack of pulsing Stability which literally anything can take advantage of, no damage reduction, no option to enter Shroud, no Blinds, blocks, reflects, invulnerability... It's nothing but high damage to force you to stay away from it or die. If you reduce the damage too much and things can start tanking attacks long enough to force the Necro out of the transformation then it literally becomes useless (hence why anyone with a brain spamming Blinds, CC's, or damage on it will force the Necro out of the transformation immediately).It's slow and squishy. As soon as you see the transform, take cover. You only have to do it for 10 seconds, and you can't tell me there's "no where to hide". Yes, the damage is crazy high. And yes it can 2 shot you... So can; Soulbeast, Spellbreaker, Weaver, Mesmer/Chrono, Scrapper/Holo, Dragonhunter, etc. Various things have combos or skills that can hit 10k+ and kill you in a heartbeat. Why is Lich Form a problem when it's on a 120second cooldown?I just don't get the hate for this elite when you can trigger a random DH trap you didn't know was there and take a 9k tick but a giant Lich at walking pace that a small shrub can save you from is such an issue for some people.almost nothing can kill reaper with full shroud as I have tried on sic em soulbeast and after landing every single skill I barely got them out of shroud.Thanks for the laugh! You are obviously far from being representative. Everyone who writes this nonsense is not representative. This statement is an excellent showcase of incompetence. This is so wrong, it's not even necessary to argue against it.If people, who write things like this, have a problem killing lich: No, it's not lich, that is your problem here (it's your incompetence).And I say it for the 100th time in this forum: I hate lich! it's dumb! But for other reasons than most people think in this thread.I should maybe make a video of my lich noob destructions. This forum needs it to get gud at countering that dumb elite, I guess.Am I correct that u believe its ok for a transform skill to have 5k+ auto's. If this is true than u are also not representative. Only a necro main would believe its ok.... oh wait. If any class had 5+k autos during a transform skill regardless of class or any other skills within that transform skill most players would consider that absurd except of course those who use that class and skill, just saying.I'm sure if warrior did 6 or 7k auto attacks during rampage u urself would be stating their autos need nerfed.First of all a reaper that sustains a sic em soulbeast (which btw. is almost impossible at equal skill levels in pvp due to toughness being pretty rare) does not do 5k autos with lich. People are buildmixing here - that's also very typical for these kind of threads.Since anet did not nerf lich yet, despite months of complains and lich is not meta in any tournament, I think I am the definition of representative.And prophet, please, before lich has to see any nerfs, p/d condi teef has to be looked at. This is the easiest build in the game currently at skill levels that have issues dealing with lich, because it can nuke low skilled targets every few seconds and not just once every 150 seconds.Isn't the main argument here, that the game should be balanced at lower skill levels than plat? Well, then start with condi teef please!The problem isn’t condi thief but your incompetence. Git gud and stop complaining. Also, anet not nerfing it for months isn’t representative of anything but Anet forgetting PvP exists, as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 @Shroud.2307 said:@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Am I correct that u believe its ok for a transform skill to have 5k+ auto's. If this is true than u are also not representative. Only a necro main would believe its ok.... oh wait. If any class had 5+k autos during a transform skill regardless of class or any other skills within that transform skill most players would consider that absurd except of course those who use that class and skill, just saying.I'm sure if warrior did 6 or 7k auto attacks during rampage u urself would be stating their autos need nerfed.Bruh, you don't even need to elite transform to do 10 - 15k crits with Soulbeast. Maul, Worldly Impact, Merged Porcine Maul, "Sic 'Em!" Rapid Fire, Winter's Bite... Various attacks that two shot most builds. Same could be said of DH with its 10k+ Trap ticks or True Shot.I've said more than once that I agree with people who say Lich Form damage is too high. But I also don't think it needs to be nerfed because the duration already has been and ANet clearly sees it the same way that I do-offense is Necro's ( and Lichs' ) defense. It needs to do damage that nothing else can trade with or it's useless. If anything can facetank Lich or pop a reflect the Necro will near instantly leave the transformation because it's not worth it for the Necro to trade. Same reason anything that can trade with a Reaper pretty well hard counters it. Drop Lich autos to 2k and suddenly no one's going to use it because literally everything in the game would be able to CC it to death or facetank the autos and force the Necro out of the transformation in 2seconds. Kite the kitten thing, or if you have the option to do it use some reflects, Blinds, a Block, etc.I understand a good Necro will wait/bait out those things, but you can make this argument about anything. Expect that they are going to Lich on you and have a defensive option ready to deal with it. You literally only have to LOS for TEN SECONDS if you don't have any cooldowns left, against something that moves at walking pace.The only reason I aggressively defend this as a Necro main isn't because I don't want to lose "OP" thing. It's because I know ANet is unlikely to give Lich Form anything in return if they nerf the damage, and it will be useless afterward.If they increased the duration to 20seconds and reduced the recharge on all Lich Form skills, but nerfed the damage, okay. I might be happy with that. Otherwise, no, you can't gut the damage and give it nothing back because it is already so easy to counter and offers little else outside of that damage.Going Lich is like saying "if you don't get away from me you'll die. If I don't make you run, I die." Not, "LOL, I win."ah yes, the 10k-15k winters bites. my favourite.most of the listed skills cant hit those numbers, the fact that you landed 10k maul once while at 12 might from warrior against light target with 25vulnerability doesnt mean every maul lands for 10k. meanwhile reaper booms reliably 7k+ on every shot100% crit chance, just look at trevor's video. 4,5k dmg every time against target with protection. 0 might, 0 vulnerability, no outside buffs/debuffs, no chill nothing.just bam bam bam bam bam bam.Nobody is asking for 80% dmg nerfs, and heck. If lich form was the only thing that gets nerfed things would get worse, but there simply should no be 2.3 coof auto-attacks in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 @Shieldbash.5304 said:Enough is enough, this is just ridiculous at this point! How long are Necros going to be allowed to Faceroll the game?I hope always. Some classes by description should be stronger than others I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 @Shroud.2307 said:@Psycoprophet.8107 said:@Shroud.2307 said:@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Am I correct that u believe its ok for a transform skill to have 5k+ auto's. If this is true than u are also not representative. Only a necro main would believe its ok.... oh wait. If any class had 5+k autos during a transform skill regardless of class or any other skills within that transform skill most players would consider that absurd except of course those who use that class and skill, just saying.I'm sure if warrior did 6 or 7k auto attacks during rampage u urself would be stating their autos need nerfed.Bruh, you don't even need to elite transform to do 10 - 15k crits with Soulbeast. Maul, Worldly Impact, Merged Porcine Maul, "Sic 'Em!" Rapid Fire, Winter's Bite... Various attacks that two shot most builds. Same could be said of DH with its 10k+ Trap ticks or True Shot.I've said more than once that I agree with people who say Lich Form damage is too high. But I also don't think it needs to be nerfed because the duration already has been and ANet clearly sees it the same way that I do-offense is Necro's ( and Lichs' ) defense. It needs to do damage that nothing else can trade with or it's useless. If anything can facetank Lich or pop a reflect the Necro will near instantly leave the transformation because it's not worth it for the Necro to trade. Same reason anything that can trade with a Reaper pretty well hard counters it. Drop Lich autos to 2k and suddenly no one's going to use it because literally everything in the game would be able to CC it to death or facetank the autos and force the Necro out of the transformation in 2seconds. Kite the kitten thing, or if you have the option to do it use some reflects, Blinds, a Block, etc.I understand a good Necro will wait/bait out those things, but you can make this argument about anything. Expect that they are going to Lich on you and have a defensive option ready to deal with it. You literally only have to LOS for TEN SECONDS if you don't have any cooldowns left, against something that moves at walking pace.The only reason I aggressively defend this as a Necro main isn't because I don't want to lose "OP" thing. It's because I know ANet is unlikely to give Lich Form anything in return if they nerf the damage, and it will be useless afterward.If they increased the duration to 20seconds and reduced the recharge on all Lich Form skills, but nerfed the damage, okay. I might be happy with that. Otherwise, no, you can't gut the damage and give it nothing back because it is already so easy to counter and offers little else outside of that damage.Going Lich is like saying "if you don't get away from me you'll die. If I don't make you run, I die." Not, "LOL, I win."????? Not talking about possible bursts classes can do im talking about auto's which are spamnable, if ranger was able to pop a skill than spam lb or gs auto attacks for 5k+ damage ideas that whatever allowed them to do so would be grossly op as well.OWP + GS autos is pretty kitten near 5k autos. Which is more of a fair comparison given it's an elite.Necros can defend themselves, problem is that when you combine classes like soulbeast which use worldly strike and mobilitty and sustain it becomes a unfair fight.I honestly don't want nec to be destroyed in pvp as well, but it wouldn't be right if we play favoritisms either.Maybe they could try lowering the cd as mentioned and increasing duration while in the form or something after nerfing the dmg or replacing it as others have said.Prob better for the game too, since i really don't like lich form.> @Leonidrex.5649 said:@Shroud.2307 said:@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Am I correct that u believe its ok for a transform skill to have 5k+ auto's. If this is true than u are also not representative. Only a necro main would believe its ok.... oh wait. If any class had 5+k autos during a transform skill regardless of class or any other skills within that transform skill most players would consider that absurd except of course those who use that class and skill, just saying.I'm sure if warrior did 6 or 7k auto attacks during rampage u urself would be stating their autos need nerfed.Bruh, you don't even need to elite transform to do 10 - 15k crits with Soulbeast. Maul, Worldly Impact, Merged Porcine Maul, "Sic 'Em!" Rapid Fire, Winter's Bite... Various attacks that two shot most builds. Same could be said of DH with its 10k+ Trap ticks or True Shot.I've said more than once that I agree with people who say Lich Form damage is too high. But I also don't think it needs to be nerfed because the duration already has been and ANet clearly sees it the same way that I do-offense is Necro's ( and Lichs' ) defense. It needs to do damage that nothing else can trade with or it's useless. If anything can facetank Lich or pop a reflect the Necro will near instantly leave the transformation because it's not worth it for the Necro to trade. Same reason anything that can trade with a Reaper pretty well hard counters it. Drop Lich autos to 2k and suddenly no one's going to use it because literally everything in the game would be able to CC it to death or facetank the autos and force the Necro out of the transformation in 2seconds. Kite the kitten thing, or if you have the option to do it use some reflects, Blinds, a Block, etc.I understand a good Necro will wait/bait out those things, but you can make this argument about anything. Expect that they are going to Lich on you and have a defensive option ready to deal with it. You literally only have to LOS for TEN SECONDS if you don't have any cooldowns left, against something that moves at walking pace.The only reason I aggressively defend this as a Necro main isn't because I don't want to lose "OP" thing. It's because I know ANet is unlikely to give Lich Form anything in return if they nerf the damage, and it will be useless afterward.If they increased the duration to 20seconds and reduced the recharge on all Lich Form skills, but nerfed the damage, okay. I might be happy with that. Otherwise, no, you can't gut the damage and give it nothing back because it is already so easy to counter and offers little else outside of that damage.Going Lich is like saying "if you don't get away from me you'll die. If I don't make you run, I die." Not, "LOL, I win."ah yes, the 10k-15k winters bites. my favourite.most of the listed skills cant hit those numbers, the fact that you landed 10k maul once while at 12 might from warrior against light target with 25vulnerability doesnt mean every maul lands for 10k. meanwhile reaper booms reliably 7k+ on every shot100% crit chance, just look at trevor's video. 4,5k dmg every time against target with protection. 0 might, 0 vulnerability, no outside buffs/debuffs, no chill nothing.just bam bam bam bam bam bam.Nobody is asking for 80% dmg nerfs, and heck. If lich form was the only thing that gets nerfed things would get worse, but there simply should no be 2.3 coof auto-attacks in the game.The reason people try to prevent changes, is for fear it gets smiter booned with nother in return, and when ANET nerfs things they don't always go back and it always always takes a long LOONG time to fix things.Smiter booning reaper dmg and lich will just make every nec fan angry and quit and cause more losses of subs and playerbase and create another circle jerk of nerfs that will result in more degradation of the game, somewhat like some circle jerk nerfs that happened to ele that prob shouldn't have.Should have meteor been nerfed? maybe, but i think it shold be really solid in AOE for pve and sueful for WVW in my opinion. Heck let tempest or core take over AOE jobs and let weave take single target and BAAM you got 1 for each raid type in pve and useful for spvp and WVW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeesh.7286 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 "oh look another nerf lich thread"laughs in aoe magnetic aura tempests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dday.9532 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Not that its not easily countered, but transform skills in general are just bad pvp design. Like an ultimate should be relevant to the build not just make you super powerful for like 10 seconds. Feel the same way about rampage and that skill isn't even very good either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 @Axl.8924 said:@Shroud.2307 said:@Psycoprophet.8107 said:@Shroud.2307 said:@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Am I correct that u believe its ok for a transform skill to have 5k+ auto's. If this is true than u are also not representative. Only a necro main would believe its ok.... oh wait. If any class had 5+k autos during a transform skill regardless of class or any other skills within that transform skill most players would consider that absurd except of course those who use that class and skill, just saying.I'm sure if warrior did 6 or 7k auto attacks during rampage u urself would be stating their autos need nerfed.Bruh, you don't even need to elite transform to do 10 - 15k crits with Soulbeast. Maul, Worldly Impact, Merged Porcine Maul, "Sic 'Em!" Rapid Fire, Winter's Bite... Various attacks that two shot most builds. Same could be said of DH with its 10k+ Trap ticks or True Shot.I've said more than once that I agree with people who say Lich Form damage is too high. But I also don't think it needs to be nerfed because the duration already has been and ANet clearly sees it the same way that I do-offense is Necro's ( and Lichs' ) defense. It needs to do damage that nothing else can trade with or it's useless. If anything can facetank Lich or pop a reflect the Necro will near instantly leave the transformation because it's not worth it for the Necro to trade. Same reason anything that can trade with a Reaper pretty well hard counters it. Drop Lich autos to 2k and suddenly no one's going to use it because literally everything in the game would be able to CC it to death or facetank the autos and force the Necro out of the transformation in 2seconds. Kite the kitten thing, or if you have the option to do it use some reflects, Blinds, a Block, etc.I understand a good Necro will wait/bait out those things, but you can make this argument about anything. Expect that they are going to Lich on you and have a defensive option ready to deal with it. You literally only have to LOS for TEN SECONDS if you don't have any cooldowns left, against something that moves at walking pace.The only reason I aggressively defend this as a Necro main isn't because I don't want to lose "OP" thing. It's because I know ANet is unlikely to give Lich Form anything in return if they nerf the damage, and it will be useless afterward.If they increased the duration to 20seconds and reduced the recharge on all Lich Form skills, but nerfed the damage, okay. I might be happy with that. Otherwise, no, you can't gut the damage and give it nothing back because it is already so easy to counter and offers little else outside of that damage.Going Lich is like saying "if you don't get away from me you'll die. If I don't make you run, I die." Not, "LOL, I win."????? Not talking about possible bursts classes can do im talking about auto's which are spamnable, if ranger was able to pop a skill than spam lb or gs auto attacks for 5k+ damage ideas that whatever allowed them to do so would be grossly op as well.OWP + GS autos is pretty kitten near 5k autos. Which is more of a fair comparison given it's an elite.Necros can defend themselves, problem is that when you combine classes like soulbeast which use worldly strike and mobilitty and sustain it becomes a unfair fight.I honestly don't want nec to be destroyed in pvp as well, but it wouldn't be right if we play favoritisms either.Maybe they could try lowering the cd as mentioned and increasing duration while in the form or something after nerfing the dmg or replacing it as others have said.Prob better for the game too, since i really don't like lich form.> @Leonidrex.5649 said:@Shroud.2307 said:@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Am I correct that u believe its ok for a transform skill to have 5k+ auto's. If this is true than u are also not representative. Only a necro main would believe its ok.... oh wait. If any class had 5+k autos during a transform skill regardless of class or any other skills within that transform skill most players would consider that absurd except of course those who use that class and skill, just saying.I'm sure if warrior did 6 or 7k auto attacks during rampage u urself would be stating their autos need nerfed.Bruh, you don't even need to elite transform to do 10 - 15k crits with Soulbeast. Maul, Worldly Impact, Merged Porcine Maul, "Sic 'Em!" Rapid Fire, Winter's Bite... Various attacks that two shot most builds. Same could be said of DH with its 10k+ Trap ticks or True Shot.I've said more than once that I agree with people who say Lich Form damage is too high. But I also don't think it needs to be nerfed because the duration already has been and ANet clearly sees it the same way that I do-offense is Necro's ( and Lichs' ) defense. It needs to do damage that nothing else can trade with or it's useless. If anything can facetank Lich or pop a reflect the Necro will near instantly leave the transformation because it's not worth it for the Necro to trade. Same reason anything that can trade with a Reaper pretty well hard counters it. Drop Lich autos to 2k and suddenly no one's going to use it because literally everything in the game would be able to CC it to death or facetank the autos and force the Necro out of the transformation in 2seconds. Kite the kitten thing, or if you have the option to do it use some reflects, Blinds, a Block, etc.I understand a good Necro will wait/bait out those things, but you can make this argument about anything. Expect that they are going to Lich on you and have a defensive option ready to deal with it. You literally only have to LOS for TEN SECONDS if you don't have any cooldowns left, against something that moves at walking pace.The only reason I aggressively defend this as a Necro main isn't because I don't want to lose "OP" thing. It's because I know ANet is unlikely to give Lich Form anything in return if they nerf the damage, and it will be useless afterward.If they increased the duration to 20seconds and reduced the recharge on all Lich Form skills, but nerfed the damage, okay. I might be happy with that. Otherwise, no, you can't gut the damage and give it nothing back because it is already so easy to counter and offers little else outside of that damage.Going Lich is like saying "if you don't get away from me you'll die. If I don't make you run, I die." Not, "LOL, I win."ah yes, the 10k-15k winters bites. my favourite.most of the listed skills cant hit those numbers, the fact that you landed 10k maul once while at 12 might from warrior against light target with 25vulnerability doesnt mean every maul lands for 10k. meanwhile reaper booms reliably 7k+ on every shot100% crit chance, just look at trevor's video. 4,5k dmg every time against target with protection. 0 might, 0 vulnerability, no outside buffs/debuffs, no chill nothing.just bam bam bam bam bam bam.Nobody is asking for 80% dmg nerfs, and heck. If lich form was the only thing that gets nerfed things would get worse, but there simply should no be 2.3 coof auto-attacks in the game.The reason people try to prevent changes, is for fear it gets smiter booned with nother in return, and when ANET nerfs things they don't always go back and it always always takes a long LOONG time to fix things.Smiter booning reaper dmg and lich will just make every nec fan angry and quit and cause more losses of subs and playerbase and create another circle jerk of nerfs that will result in more degradation of the game, somewhat like some circle jerk nerfs that happened to ele that prob shouldn't have.Should have meteor been nerfed? maybe, but i think it shold be really solid in AOE for pve and sueful for WVW in my opinion. Heck let tempest or core take over AOE jobs and let weave take single target and BAAM you got 1 for each raid type in pve and useful for spvp and WVW.Because seeing things being smiter booned out of existence is what this community always wants when it comes to other professions but their own and when is's their profession turn to get smither booned..that's when all the L2P arguments start, it'd be great if this community would actually talk about balance without being charged with emotion :"No I hate to lose to XX, I want it deleted so I don't lose anymore"Should I symphatize with necros at this point?...Different community and different game I would but....not too long ago necros were up in arms to get tornado removed, nerfed because... The necro community is not any better than the rest when it comes to whine for nerfs on others, do you know how many times I got killed while using tornado and being bombarded with condis?...so the whole argument of necros about Lich Form really falls flat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aymnad.9023 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 @Axl.8924 said:Necros can defend themselves, problem is that when you combine classes like soulbeast which use worldly strike and mobilitty and sustain it becomes a unfair fight.Nobody would guess you played ranger before (even if this was a long time ago). What build can match reaper dps while having sustain? Soulbeast did not have this before the February patch and now it is even more impossible.@KrHome.1920In case you do not know a full shroud reaper can eat the classic lb combo with sicem without any issue (4-2-1-1) [ even without different damage reduction skills / boons]. (so @Leonidrex.5649 is right)What about the second in close combat? Well you can remove shroud and damage the reaper (2-5-2-F3) [again without different damage reduction skills / boons but if you miss it will become a suicide]If you really want to look at reaper full kit vs the sicem slb kit it is not even a contest. The ratio defense / offense of reaper puts anything slb can do to shame and is far more reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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