perm stealth

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

3 hours ago, Anaide.8251 said:

You are missing the point, the stealth is not the problem, the infinite stealth is the problem. Every player I have met so far said the same thing: remove stealth from WvW this came from engineers, mesmers and thieves included. 

I'm not missing the point, you're trying to move the goalposts though. You complained about a thief that "port, hit, stealth, steal, port, hit, stealth. steal, prancing like a ballerina"; that thief is in combat and is not in permanent stealth because he is attacking you. A thief that sits in permanent stealth cannot hurt you because they cannot attack, so no, your problem is clearly not just with permastealth but is actually with stealth in general. 

3 hours ago, Anaide.8251 said:

Are you seriously comparing condition cleansing (which is easy an accessible) with a perma stealth bot? Think of this scenario you log into, do you thing then boom a thief, and you are like "oh yeah hold up let me switch to something else" seriously nobody has time for that pony show.

If you don't have the time to build to counter something, you can't be complaining if it kills you. Not sure what else to say to you about that really. And yes, counters to stealth are accessible to every class just like condi cleanse is, it's not the thief's fault if you choose not to use it. 

3 hours ago, Anaide.8251 said:

Like I said it all they need to do is look at NCSoft and L2, that's it, and then maybe decide what they want their thief to do.

They have decided what they want their thief to do, that's not the problem. The problem is that you don't like how their thief works. 

3 hours ago, Anaide.8251 said:

At the current moment it is the master of ninja scenarios that hits from the shadow, barely gets hit, revealed taken down. 

You really see no problem with this? If so then we can assume you play the perma stealth, and at the end of the day it does not even matter, we are  just players venting. Highly doubt Anet would even take this into consideration this: next patch "yes after hearing the community we do see the problems with thief" #doubt.

You can assume all you like, it doesn't make your argument any better. As it happens, I've played thief for 8 years, everything from stealthless to full stealth on power, condi and hybrid. As i said before tho;

7 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

I'd have no problem with thief damage being upped and stealth access being reduced, but something tells me you and many others in this post would still be complaining even if that happened. 

Seems I was right about that. 

[cobbah.3102]

You took my retal now delete stealth , thank you .

[Sobx.1758]

7 hours ago, cobbah.3102 said:

You took my retal now delete stealth , thank you .

Yes, because your gameplay pattern depended on retal so hard.

[godz raiden.2631]

The same people here complaining about stealth are the same people who probably developed an understanding of the concept object permanence at the ripe old age 25. 

 

You know what, I hope Anet decides to remove stealth from thief and gives us tons of damage to compensate or something nutty. You all will be crying about thief until the day this game dies, regardless of the class's reliance on stealth as a class mechanic.

[cobbah.3102]

11 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yes, because your gameplay pattern depended on retal so hard.

kitten straight it did watching the blobs kill themselves so satisfying. No skill required just like the rest of them.

[solemn.9608]

8 hours ago, godz raiden.2631 said:

The same people here complaining about stealth are the same people who probably developed an understanding of the concept object permanence at the ripe old age 25. 

 

You know what, I hope Anet decides to remove stealth from thief and gives us tons of damage to compensate or something nutty. You all will be crying about thief until the day this game dies, regardless of the class's reliance on stealth as a class mechanic.

Just to be clear, I'm not directing my disdain toward you personally - just the general "I'm an oppressed thief and outperforming everyone / having my class carry me is so difficult 😰" attitude.

---

Lol your class _already_ has tons of damage from pressing 1 to 3 skills / facerolling the keyboard. Nearly every thief I encounter roaming is just: stealth abuse and heartseeker spam. Hits through toughness like it's nothing, but God forbid anet nerfs my teef character, it might be balanced (maybe I'd play it more often, since I wouldn't feel guilty about it anymore).

 

Stealth and dagger/rifle mainhand make the game ez-mode, it attracts the kind of crowd you'd expect. For some reason they seem to be the most bitter of all players you'll meet in the game - almost as if subconsciously they're self-aware of the fact that _they are playing thief_.

 

At least people are starting to wake up to it.

Teef mains have been sitting on all this clout for way too long - high time for ya'll to realize it's very easy to do LOL

[Kron.6938]

On 5/7/2021 at 11:56 AM, Aeolus.3615 said:

Losing a 1 vs 1 with a thief... its the thief role to excell in most situations.

Unless they fight a necro, or a revenant, or a ranger, who either reveals you, or stacks a ton of condi your stealth can't remove. But still a broke burst class due to the stealth mechanics for those who know how to play it. 

[MrForz.1953]

On 5/28/2021 at 1:30 AM, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

I'd have no problem with thief damage being upped and stealth access being reduced, but something tells me you and many others in this post would still be complaining even if that happened. 

We probably will never know since it won't ever happen. I'd almost be tempted to dust off my thief if it did.

Edited May 29, 2021 by MrForz.1953

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

On 5/28/2021 at 6:07 PM, godz raiden.2631 said:

The same people here complaining about stealth are the same people who probably developed an understanding of the concept object permanence at the ripe old age 25. 

 

You know what, I hope Anet decides to remove stealth from thief and gives us tons of damage to compensate or something nutty. You all will be crying about thief until the day this game dies, regardless of the class's reliance on stealth as a class mechanic.

What do you mean compensate? Teef damage is fine or even too high in certain situations, why would you want any compensation for removing broken mechanic? What is this circus attitude? Teef have more toxic builds available at any given time, but they're "sleepers" because of stealth abuse. If A-net had decided to remove stealth they would simply jump on another aids, but if they would "compensate" and buff their damage they would become more broken. 
Cap stealth at 3s max with 3s revealed that can't be removed and Teef would be more "bearable", far from acceptable ofc, but still more balanced than what we currently have.

[Anaide.8251]

On 5/28/2021 at 1:30 AM, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

As it happens, I've played thief for 8 years, everything from stealthless to full stealth on power, condi and hybrid.

Of course you have a dog in this race, and you know what? That it is fine. But you still don't want to see that it is broken. Let me give you an example: I suck at thief, I am incredibly bad, and yet this build allowed me to win every match, engage and disengage as I pleased, and just kill my opponents easily, and like I sad I suck at thief. 

If you don't see an issue that a noob can go and destroy with a build like this, there is nothing anyone can say at this point. 

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

no down state made A LOT of veterans very unhappy.

 

In fact, 8/10 people I talked to hated no down state.

 

It is great for cheese build players. That's it.

[Telgum.6071]

I would gladly accept the removing of permastealth.

I would also accept a massive nerf on unkillable+running+condition cleanse+boon generation classes like elementalist, or "My party won't ever die" builds like minstrel firebrand.

I would be very happy if Anet made warrior way more viable that being either a bubble slave, a virtual Usain Bolt, a glass cannon or a stun bot, since you can't have any of those together.

I would be happy to see mesmer being unable to carry an entire zerg behind the enemy zerg.

I would be really happy with a well deserved nerf of those unkillable necromancers that have no need to even dodge.

 

But I doubt this will ever happen, so there is only room to enjoy WvW as it is now and drink the tears of those who come to cry at forums when they get humilliated by your random local enemy thief.

 

Now on a more serious note, stealth as it is now is not a problem, but the combination of stealth+shadowstep+Shortbow 5. A combination that makes thief unkillable because if you are losing you can always run away, stealth, recover and try again. There is no context where you can't do this if you don't waste your abilities.

 

Remove Infiltrator's Arrow from the game and encourage thiefs to play an actual second weapon set instead another panic button.

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Telgum.6071

[solemn.9608]

9 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

I would also accept a massive nerf on unkillable+running+condition cleanse+boon generation classes like elementalis

 

Just wanted to check in and state that this isn't the fault of elementalist, it's the fault of elementalist players running HORRIBLE tank/stall-fighting builds. I don't know why so many of them choose to run extremely tanky to the point where they can almost not kill anything. Not the fault of ele, just some weird phenomenon of bad players choosing a class that doesn't suit them very well and then they have to compensate for it.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

22 hours ago, Anaide.8251 said:

Of course you have a dog in this race, and you know what? That it is fine. But you still don't want to see that it is broken. Let me give you an example: I suck at thief, I am incredibly bad, and yet this build allowed me to win every match, engage and disengage as I pleased, and just kill my opponents easily, and like I sad I suck at thief. 

If you don't see an issue that a noob can go and destroy with a build like this, there is nothing anyone can say at this point. 

Ignoring the argument from anecdote as it proves basically nothing, It's pretty funny that the only part of my post that you choose to address is the fact I main thief. Yes, I am biased because I main thief, and yes, I play all the different builds available to me on the class, but I've also said to you twice that I'm fine with thief's stealth access being reduced;

On 5/27/2021 at 5:20 PM, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

I'd have no problem with thief damage being upped and stealth access being reduced, but something tells me you and many others in this post would still be complaining even if that happened. 

The fact you keep ignoring this and keep accusing me of wilful blindness when it comes to stealth is only showing your own bias, I'm afraid. 

[anduriell.6280]

I'm in the bandwagon Steath needs a rework but i don't think the decision is a easy as "nerf it" because thief has plenty of mechanics depending on it. 

 

It is not fun when build variety is removed because of a nerf (needed or not) . 

 

So my approach to this would be one of those solutions:

1. Make stealth no stackable. This is a lazy approach and not the best because it would limit the builds somehow. 
2. Make stealthed characters to be "transparent outline" (like seen by friendlies) to enemies within a radius of the thief. While in this state it can not directly be targeted by enemies. 

 

For me the the second option would be the best, it would have a less impact in current builds and it would not need to re-balancing any of the stealth skills. 

 

It would also solve the Rune of the Trapper dilemma because the DH would still be "visible" if using traps while close to you. Also it would make the Druid less obnoxious with the Celestial Shadow trait.

 

All that while keeping the core functionality intact. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by anduriell.6280
smol corrections

[Widmo.3186]

Lmao what is this thread. Crying about teef, ranger, now even ele. You want teef to be considered as more mechanical class than waiting for CDs and oppurtunity in stealth? Nerf SA traitline, thats it. IA was already nerfed to a point its usable only 2 times, dp3 cannot be spammed anymore, same story. Dp4 got ripped off PI, backstab has cd on miss. Im not defending teef but its l2p issue, if youre constantly asking for this kind of nerfs. The moment SA was brought back to life is when abusing stealth started. And i have no idea why ANet is not focusing on it when so many competent ppl said the very same thing.

 

PS: Speaking of ele, if its tanky then you can just kite it. Its probably one of the easiest classes to kite in the game, very visible animations, no access to quickness, dont cry and just play the game.

[Kaizen.3804]

Oh look, another thread about deleting the thief class, disguised as a "balance the thief class" thread. It never gets old. Bad players crying for nerfs to a class they've likely never played. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can kill/defeat your average thief roamer. Ya'll are just upset you can't roll your faces across your keyboards for easy wins vs Thief. 

 

Everyone in here claiming that nerfing stealth is to "balance the thief" is a liar; just be honest and say what you really want. "Delete the Thief class."

Edited May 31, 2021 by Keitaro Dragonheart.9047

[ThomasC.1056]

57 minutes ago, Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 said:

Everyone in here claiming that nerfing stealth is to "balance the thief" is a liar; just be honest and say what you really want. "Delete the Thief class."

 

You're right !

 

Please ANet delete the thief class because it's built on the loathsome stealth mechanic which allows for too much exploit and frustration.

[urd.8306]

I would be ok with that too.

 

[cobbah.3102]

Haven't said any different about stealth it's a bs mechanic

[MrForz.1953]

On 5/29/2021 at 3:15 AM, solemn.9608 said:

Just to be clear, I'm not directing my disdain toward you personally - just the general "I'm an oppressed thief and outperforming everyone / having my class carry me is so difficult 😰" attitude.

---

Lol your class _already_ has tons of damage from pressing 1 to 3 skills / facerolling the keyboard. Nearly every thief I encounter roaming is just: stealth abuse and heartseeker spam. Hits through toughness like it's nothing, but God forbid anet nerfs my teef character, it might be balanced (maybe I'd play it more often, since I wouldn't feel guilty about it anymore).

 

Stealth and dagger/rifle mainhand make the game ez-mode, it attracts the kind of crowd you'd expect. For some reason they seem to be the most bitter of all players you'll meet in the game - almost as if subconsciously they're self-aware of the fact that _they are playing thief_.

 

At least people are starting to wake up to it.

Teef mains have been sitting on all this clout for way too long - high time for ya'll to realize it's very easy to do LOL

 

1 hour ago, Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 said:

Oh look, another thread about deleting the thief class, disguised as a "balance the thief class" thread. It never gets old. Bad players crying for nerfs to a class they've likely never played. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can kill/defeat your average thief roamer. Ya'll are just upset you can't roll your faces across your keyboards for easy wins vs Thief. 

 

Everyone in here claiming that nerfing stealth is to "balance the thief" is a liar; just be honest and say what you really want. "Delete the Thief class."

 

Hmm. I must consult with the Elder Dragons.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

3 hours ago, MrForz.1953 said:

 

 

Hmm. I must consult with the Elder Dragons.

Didn't we kill them already?

[frareanselm.1925]

Stealth in WvW is per se nerfed already, because when you are in enemy zones you're revealed so quickly that is merely figurative, it's ver sad that a thief cannt enjoy his shadow refuge in his full capacity. And they want more nerfs....

[Sreoom.3690]

Do what I did, roll a thief and play it, it isn't as easy as you think.

[anduriell.6280]

52 minutes ago, Sreoom.3690 said:

Do what I did, roll a thief and play it, it isn't as easy as you think.

Probably you aren't playing with a cheesy build, i did try thief because and i liked it. Definitely more forgiving than a ranger. 

 

Also I saw stealth is a problem and a need for the class.