Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons Discussion Thread: Gameplay and Elite Specializations [MERGED]

[Stago.7608]

Absolutely love the new specs. I think engi is going to be my new main and the ranger elite spec looks great!

[Dante.1508]

2 minutes ago, Stago.7608 said:

Absolutely love the new specs. I think engi is going to be my new main and the ranger elite spec looks great!

It doesn't really show anything.. The untamed and Mechanic while looking cool the only thing i can think with those is well those creatures will be a ball and chain to everything.. you want to avoid.. And useless against living story bosses..

[Stago.7608]

Really? The livestream showed a lot of cool mechanics. I think the most coolest mechanic is the Specter's with ALLY and enemy targeting and support but I probably won't have enough skill to handle it 😅. The untamed one is really cool with a strong attack + weak defense switching to weak attack + strong defense... rly cool! and for engi........... how can you not like the traits ?? Support, condi, and power choices for the golem???? This looks like it would play great.. can't wait to try it out!

[Stago.7608]

I feel like these specs are the real deal despite willbender and harbinger perhaps not up to par to my expectations.

[KinkyPotato.4219]

These are some of the worst elite specs I have ever seen - a complete 180 in design philosophy  and I think we can attribute it to the inclusion of a single new hire at Arenanet - CMC. Every spec reeks of his anti-power creep beliefs which is completely baffling, given that he was only hired as a competitive designer in October 2019. Why on earth would Arenanet give a newcomer so much power in designing an expansion's elite specs for all three game modes? I understand that two of the main specialization developers left at the beginning of 2021 but again, why not let others who are more experienced in designing these specs like Karl take charge? CMC should stick to balancing the sPvP game mode and have his input removed from PvE and WvW as these ideas were poorly implemented for those game modes. Once the masses play these specs for a couple of weeks, they will see just how useless and counterintuitive they are to the game's current design.

When you compare these elite specs to the ones in HoT and PoF, the problems become so magnified, it's embarassing. You can't go from the power creep introduced in the last two expansions to the incredibly unfun and underpowered specs that EoD is bringing - it feels awful. Mesmers lose clones, Engineers lose toolbelts, Guardians lose virtues, Necros lose damage absorption from Shroud AND health, Thieves gain limited (and only if traited) AoE support with heals and barriers (no AoE boons aside from a single utility, no AoE condition cleansing) and have to wrestle with awkward ally targeting for the majority of their gameplay loop (a guildie tested the current functionality of the "Toggle Next Ally" keybind...it only targets NPCs so he was targeting minis and flame rams in WvW...yikes Anet)...the list goes on. Ally targeting is a step backwards and completely contradictory to the underlying foundation of the game explained by Jon Peters back in 2011 (article - https://booncontrol.com/threads/gw2-what’s-your-style-jon-peters-talks-about-combat.499/). The excerpt on no allied targeting specifically states " instead of watching red bars, we want you to watch your allies in the world. Making sure you are dropping ground-targeted spells effectively and moving into position to block attacks on allies is how we want players to defend each other". The specter playstyle is therefore devolutionary and goes completely against the grain of the game for the sake of being different. You are fundamentally breaking these professions with no regards to their identities or to the game's underlying systems and controls. Furthermore, build customization has been destroyed in favor of not only promoting dumbed down trait choices in which there is no room for flexibility (if I want support I pick the middle row, if I want condi I pick the bottom row...etc) but ALSO removing core mechanics which ADDITIONALLY limits trait and utility choices from core specializations.

In short, we're not only getting direct surface value tradeoffs (ie, Engineers losing toolbelts) but we're also getting indirect tradeoffs in that we are restricted in our trait/utility choices because these mechanics no longer work (Engineer's Medkit no longer has a heal because of the lacking toolbelt, toolbelt traits do not work with Mech skills, core utilities becoming useless without their associated toolbelt). This, coupled with the uninspired homogenization of mechanics (for example - Engineers gaining a Ranger pet, Thieves gaining a Necro Shroud, Guardians gaining Thief Shadowsteps) is the definition of anti-fun. We've already seen this play out in multiple ways during the betas, here are a few examples:

1. Harbingers resorted to playing "zero blight" builds because while the spec was advertised as a high-risk, high-reward, it played out as a high-risk very low reward build. Instead of going in to accumulate blight, people were simply going into Shroud to run away because the loss of both their HP and damage absorption meant that they would be free kills if they stayed in too long. Therefore, poorly implemented.
2. Willbenders in an EoD-exclusive sPvP tournament hosted by MightyTeapot did not even select traits because the tradeoffs were so negatively impacting the guardian, that it was a downright nerf to your character picking any trait in that line. Bugged animations and cast times as well. Therefore, poorly implemented.
3. Virtuosos have a random condition damage line despite being given a power weapon?? No one in their right mind played it and even when it was played, it failed to do any sort of competitive damage. Poorly implemented.
4. Catalysts failed from both a creative and usability standpoint. Confused identity, an unholy hybrid of tempest and Weaver, useless utilities, a very janky core mechanic with an even jankier energy limitation, laziness with not creating an Earth field on the Jade Sphere and instead granting a Poison Field, another melee weapon with not enough distinctions to differentiate it from other melee weapons...probably the worst elite spec of the 9 revealed.
5. Mechanists receiving a Mech who's buggy AI refuses to cooperate with the player's controls. Botched pathing (which was acknowledged on stream with no fixes???), no controls for "Return to Me", a trait line that solely benefits the Mech, no toolbelts rendering a large number of current utilities underpowered, and an incredibly punishing Recall have forced players to take the Elite Signet to ressurect it when it inevitably runs off to die. Poorly implemented as our defining mechanic requires us to slot an entire elite to work around its poor AI/overly punishing recall but to also turn on "Avoid Combat" to prevent its random off-screen deaths

I will hold out my decision to preorder until the end of the final beta and observe if the community's feedback was taken seriously though I doubt there were will be any mechanical changes this close to release. I understand that power creep makes it difficult for developers to balance but at the same time, this was already introduced in both expansions. I don't think the solution either is to nerf PoF and HoT specs to make these more appealing as the player base has already been accustomed to this heightened level of power. Taking it away would result in severe backlash which I don't think this company could recover from - just look at the backlash from the Chronomancer rework and that was not nearly as bad as the level of nerfing required to make EoD specs viable alternatives. These new specs require a fundamental change to the overall state and playability of the current game which is simply not possible unless the game is completely rewritten and scrapped. These are thematically some of the best designed elite specs but their implementations are unacceptable and their place in the current game is nonexistent.

The original intention of switching from the previous trait system to the specialization system introduced in Heart of Thorns was to limit the amount of choices each player can make but to make each choice more impactful. These specs however downright destroy that ideology by forcing you to take certain traits to make the specialization function on a barebone level. Devolutionary functionalities, unimaginative traits, lazy homogenization, and the direct/indirect tradeoffs of said specs make them all incredibly frustrating and limiting to play. Being a competitive player does not necessarily equate to being a successful competitive designer so CMC needs to stick to sPvP balancing and let more experienced specialization designers take the reigns. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by KinkyPotato.4219

[Fire Wizard.9285]

12 hours ago, Stago.7608 said:

Really? The livestream showed a lot of cool mechanics. I think the most coolest mechanic is the Specter's with ALLY and enemy targeting and support but I probably won't have enough skill to handle it 😅. The untamed one is really cool with a strong attack + weak defense switching to weak attack + strong defense... rly cool! and for engi........... how can you not like the traits ?? Support, condi, and power choices for the golem???? This looks like it would play great.. can't wait to try it out!

If you say so, watch the three times shorter comment on the mighty teapot channel on youtube.
He has much more enthusiasm and understanding how it will affect the game in practice because he is a passionate and not a boring corporate nerd.
I am surprised that the gw2 community has such low requirements for this product

[Stago.7608]

hm? I watch tpot as well... which video?

[Foxy.5319]

Ich finde sie im Großen und Ganzen gut. ^^

[Avatara.1042]

The Catalyst gameplay is the most horrendous thing I have ever seen in GW2.  Being forced to change attunement every 3-4 seconds to keep a ball spinning?  A field with a cooldown, energy cost, linked to the new utilities AND which cannot be moved (is it for stationary targets only?)?  Stacking aura timers (hammer has no auras) and stacking percentage buffs, which require no interruptions to maintain?  600 range tiny damage, or melee where you explode?

 

Was any thought put into this spec?

[Sir Arigius.6294]

On 10/23/2021 at 7:33 PM, Dante.1508 said:

I agree the new class specs are a total let down.. this is not the Cantha of Guildwars i remember fondly as a teenager.. Sadly we either conform to this new rehash of classes or move on i guess.

I was unimpressed with them as well. So all the merrier to stick with the older classes. 

[Dondarrion.2748]

Untamed....

 

 

it's an adjective, doesn't feel like a noun or proper name of an elite spec.

Anet - nobody will blame you if you just retract the name and come back out and call it Warden by popular vote. 😁

[ProtoGunner.4953]

People should chill, I liked most classes. Remember when they showed Dragonhunter and Tempest? What a shitstorm, in the end they are still one of the most popular elite specs. People get used to it, it's always the same, check the word nostalgia and juvenoia, mankind don't like changes and changes have to establish until it is the new norm.

 

 

[Avatara.1042]

Dragonhunter was because of the name, and Tempest did not have a huge outcry.  The Catalyst fails in every single conceivably way.

[Naxos.2503]

In the end, I like having more options. Some specs definitely need another pass, Willbender is a top contender, Catalyst is a close second, and Harbinger to a lesser degree (for the love of all that is holy, please make Elixirs more interesting that just a self buff. As I said before, Engineer's made it work because it could throw the darn things). 

I'm particularly fond of the Bladesworn, that I find suitably different and interesting, and the only black spot on it is that pistol should have been mainhand. Specter looks very interesting and fills the niche of a healer for a duo, which is sure to change how some instances are tackled, especially with the afforemented Bladesworn. Mechanist I think has potential, if only we werent stuck with something that make me want to hide my pot o' gold under the rainbow with me lucky charms.

Some of the classes left a definite "Meh" taste, Virtuoso is not practial for anyone like me who has dyspraxia and rely on automatic cast on target option to stay relevant, as similar to the Renegade ghost, using that option with it cast all your ground AoEs at your feet, instead of on your target like it should. Untamed is not my cup of tea, it's workable though, but I was hoping for a stealthy ranger. Vindicator is simply impractical for too little a gain, it is fun in practice but terribly executed.

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Naxos.2503

[Kal Spiro.9745]

So, I really love how the Mechanist (Golemancer)'s specialization choices directly interact with the golem, but I'm disappointed that the first choice actively changes the physical design of the golem, but the other two don't.  I would love to see all choices have a direct impact on the appearance of the construct.  I would like to see Mech Frame change the shoulders and head, and Mech Core change the chest and maybe legs.  Since, everyone who plays this is going to have the same pet, this at least would allow for 27 different arrangements of those pets, vs 3.

[radda.8920]

why  the jade is fluorescent green on the engineer's golem? it's an obession in this extension with this color ..

on gw1 the jade was bluish, it was much nicer. I already imagine the face of the Jade Sea if it's green disgusting like that ..

Edited October 26, 2021 by radda.8920

[aetemes.2603]

On 10/24/2021 at 12:09 AM, KinkyPotato.4219 said:

These are some of the worst elite specs I have ever seen - a complete 180 in design philosophy  and I think we can attribute it to the inclusion of a single new hire at Arenanet - CMC. Every spec reeks of his anti-power creep beliefs which is completely baffling, given that he was only hired as a competitive designer in October 2019. Why on earth would Arenanet give a newcomer so much power in designing an expansion's elite specs for all three game modes? I understand that two of the main specialization developers left at the beginning of 2021 but again, why not let others who are more experienced in designing these specs like Karl take charge? CMC should stick to balancing the sPvP game mode and have his input removed from PvE and WvW as these ideas were poorly implemented for those game modes. Once the masses play these specs for a couple of weeks, they will see just how useless and counterintuitive they are to the game's current design.

When you compare these elite specs to the ones in HoT and PoF, the problems become so magnified, it's embarassing. You can't go from the power creep introduced in PoF to the incredibly unfun and underpowered specs that EoD is bringing - it feels awful. Mesmers lose clones, Engineers lose toolbelts, Guardians lose virtues, Harbingers lose damage absorption from Shroud AND health, Thieves don't gain AoE support with their support spec and have to wrestle with awkward ally targeting (a guildie tested the current functionality of the "Toggle Next Ally" keybind...it only targets NPCs so he was targeting minis and flame rams in WvW...yikes Anet)...the list goes on. You are fundamentally breaking these professions with no regards to their identities or to the game's underlying systems and controls. We've already seen this play out in multiple ways during the betas, here are a few examples:

1. Harbingers resorted to playing "zero blight" builds because while the spec was advertised as a high-risk, high-reward, it played out as a high-risk very low reward build. Instead of going in to accumulate blight, people were simply going into Shroud to run away because the loss of both their HP and damage absorption meant that they would be free kills if they stayed in too long. Therefore, poorly implemented.
2. Willbenders in an EoD-exclusive sPvP tournament hosted by MightyTeapot did not even select traits because the tradeoffs were so negatively impacting the guardian, that it was a downright nerf to your character picking any trait in that line. Bugged animations and cast times as well. Therefore, poorly implemented.
3. Virtuosos have a random condition damage line despite being given a power weapon?? No one in their right mind played it and even when it was played, it failed to do any sort of competitive damage. Poorly implemented.
4. Catalysts failed from both a creative and usability standpoint. Confused identity, an unholy hybrid of tempest and Weaver, useless utilities, a very janky core mechanic with an even jankier energy limitation, laziness with not creating an Earth field on the Jade Sphere and instead granting a Poison Field, another melee weapon with not enough distinctions to differentiate it from other melee weapons...probably the worst elite spec of the 9 revealed.

I will hold out my decision to preorder until the end of the final beta and observe if the community's feedback was taken seriously though I doubt there were will be any mechanical changes this close to release. I understand that power creep makes it difficult for developers to balance but at the same time, this was already introduced in both expansions. I don't think the solution either is to nerf PoF and HoT specs to make these more appealing as the player base has already been accustomed to this heightened level of power. Taking it away would result in severe backlash which I don't think this company could recover from - just look at the backlash from the Chronomancer rework and that was not nearly as bad as the level of nerfing required to make EoD specs viable alternatives. EoD specs require a fundamental change to the overall state and playability of the current game which is simply not possible - perhaps in a Guild Wars 3, these specs would be useful but definitely not in Guild Wars 2. These are thematically some of the best designed elite specs but their implementations are unacceptable and their place in the current game is nonexistent. CMC needs to stick to sPvP balancing and let more experienced specialization designers take the reigns. 

 

10000%

Exactly the new especs feel designed by someone who has little regard to class feel fantasy/existing game mechanics/creativity/exciting concepts if not intentionally denying these elements as they don't want to spend time balancing anything due to "new ideas".

 

Then why are you making an expansion at all and creating things that cheapens the overall game feel is my question? The reason I think is ncsoft overlords think they know best and want to force an expac release to "compete" with other mmos. Why not let the more experienced handle it you say? They left after the mass exodus this company had all those pof hots people left. So I don't really want to direct any energy towards the current designers cause ncsoft is probably abusing that they are "new" or giving them no resources or whatever to save costs I think. But the audacity of them to force an expac after doing all that???

What I want to direct energy to is the playerbase who love to celebrate anything a brand does like a religion and a temple to the extent of just prepurchasing just because...but I have played enough games to know it's a losing battle can only help one's own decision...move on lol.

Edited October 26, 2021 by aetemes.2603

[Rentapest.6503]

Ranger & Thief Beta Elite Feedback:

 

I'm very disappointed with both the Ranger and Thief elites. :( Let's start with Ranger...

 

Ranger - Yet another melee spec for a ranged profession. I was honestly hoping Ranger would get Rifle, putting "range" back into "RANGEr". Suggest we rename to melee'er instead. Yawn. Completely uninterested, and back 2x Longbows ... sigh.

 

Thief - Yet another ranged weapon for a melee profession. Instead of sneaking around assassinating people with insane melee skills and stealth, we have a ranged support role to fulfill? Really? Yawn. Completely uninterested, and back to Daredevil Staff (the only melee choice these days for aoe)...sigh.

[Karaha.3290]

On 10/24/2021 at 3:35 PM, Sibila.5463 said:

If you say so, watch the three times shorter comment on the mighty teapot channel on youtube.
He has much more enthusiasm and understanding how it will affect the game in practice because he is a passionate and not a boring corporate nerd.

You mean that guy who insults everything, screaming around and starts one shitstorm and troll after the other?
Yeah, very "enthusiastic"...
Mostly yelling, barely anything else.

But that guy knows the game better that the guys who developed said game you say?
L M A O

 

[Rimour.9260]

The last three elite specializations seem to be the most defined out of the nine in total; meaning each playstyle can clearly be seen in their design.

Specter
The Specter elite spec for Thief was designed for a support role and it does this very well. It even works well with and enhances other specializations like trickery and shadow arts. The scepter is also a great weapon for a pure condi Specter build, just combine it with Venoms and Preparation skills for massive condi damage. I'd also recommend a Stealth build as it provides good support to allies (Stealth, barrier, healing). Specter is great support for all game modes, (PvP, PvE, Raids, WvW, Fracts, Dungeons)

Untamed
The Untamed elite spec for Ranger was designed to turn Rangers into a tank. To achieve this playstyle combine this elite with Toughness/Vitality gear, and the Protection boon. The Untamed also comes with a lot of CC (crowd Control) abilities making it great for boss fights that require CC for break bar ( World Bosses, Raids, Dungeons, Fracts). The Hammer gets tricky to use as its based form has CC skills and the unleashed side is more power damage, so knowing when to switch is important but not necessary as if you prefer one style over the other then don't switch. It is also to note that the unleashed skills is only on the hammer. The other added bonus to the elite spec is the extra control players have over their pets, this by itself is greatly enhances the Rangers combat capabilities. By choosing the right pets (Rangers have two pets), players can create a new playstyle if they don't like the tanky interrupting Untamed, interesting elite spec overall.

Mechanist
The Mechanist elite spec stole the show when it was showcased. The Engineer profession was designed to be "Jack of All", meaning it can do a bit of everything and the Mechanist elite spec further allows you to do this. The only issues I've noticed is the Mechs Ai when following the player and the long cooldown after the Mech gets destroyed. To get around the second issue players can use the new Elite skill which summons the Mech even if it is on cooldown. However if you don't take elite skill and your Mech dies you'd be stuck in without it for a bit (Labyrinth horror completely wrecked Mech, this is how I know). Overall whatever playstyle you were using before the Mechanist should be able to fit in just fine.

[Flapjackson.1596]

Specter:

This spec is fun and different from old thief. Since you are introducing ally-targeted skills with this spec, it could use better UI and keybind options to improve the gameplay. I know other MMOs let you manipulate party healthbars and selection to make the process of monitoring and selecting the proper ally less painful.

Untamed:
This spec is pretty sad. Being stuck to hammer is not very fun. The pet is very passive now as it needs to be micromanaged to do anything impactful. The damage isn't very impressive and it's role in WvW will be better accomplished by other specs. Unleashed skills should be available on other weapons to make the mechanic more useful. Integrate the pet more into the traits. I noticed a lack of a stun break as well. Also change the name! Awful name. Even the devs on the live stream were avoiding using it.

Mechanist:

This spec is far too reliant on the mech. There should be more interplay between having the mech active and not. The mech seems fairly weak yet when it is gone you are even worse off. The mace should be improved without the mech and the mech should be beefier and stronger when it is present. 

Bladesworn:

This spec feels very static and boring to play once you get past the big damage. Since you'll adjust the numbers anyway, what does it really offer? It's terrible in competitive modes and warrior REALLY didn't need a new power dps in PvE. Losing a weapon set wasn't worth this. We also lose an entire weapon set worth of cosmetics, severely limiting our options for designing a look.

Catalyst:

This class is equally as sad as Untamed. What is this class supposed to be? Is it supposed to be a fast swapping bruiser that builds up auras? Is it supposed to lay down totems and provide boons? These ideas clash, they do not work together. You can apply quickness on air but as soon as you swap your quickness application is gone. Weaver already does fast swapping dueling quite well. Tempest provides lots of auras. This class is also yet again tied too much to hammer. The hammer 3 is cool but the hitbox is janky and it is super reliant on this skill to do any damage.

Vindicator:

My contender for worst elite spec this expansion. Just rebuild it from the ground up please. Greatsword is okay but not particularly interesting. Everything else is bad. The damage is bad. The F2 is expensive and boring on any other legend. The utilities are awkward to use how you want because the F2 binding them is so expensive. The traitlines are too focused on the dodges and are uninspired divisions of damage/boons/healing. The dodges are super committal and not worth the cost. Did rev REALLY need another support option? No! What it needs is a power dps. Just make this spec a power dps. Give it a single line of defensive and offensive skills based on the legends. Make the dodges operate more like daredevil so you're not sacrificing your best defensive option for a lackluster attack. Please overhaul this spec. Extreme spec makeover: Rev edition.

Virtuoso:

This class feels so close yet so far to being good. I understand what it's supposed to be. A duelist and strong offensive presence. The issues are that it has a useless condi line and a full projectile kit. Toss the condi line and add a line focused on WvW gameplay. Let it be a mobile artillery cannon in PvE and WvW, a true offensive threat. Give it access to some unblockable bladesongs so that you can punch through people. 

Harbinger:

This class feels the same no matter how you play it. That isn't very interesting. The trait differences are so passive and the elixirs are too basic. Just like with Virtuoso, toss the useless power line for Harbi. Make elixirs more interesting, even just tossing the empty glasses at people for extra bleeds, Life force, shroud CD reduction, etc. Necro isn't a very complex profession but I hate how the grandmasters are literally the same thing, just with different passive effects. Boring!

Willbender:

This spec needs some damage love to actually do its job properly. If you want it to be a roaming threat, let the off-hand sword not get outclassed by focus. Also a contender for worst elite spec name against Untamed.

 

I understand that PoF specs ruined the game balance and you wanted to be conservative with these.... but these are just bad. Like REALLY bad. Some of them on a conceptual level, not just numbers. Vindi, Cata, and Untamed need the most love. Mech, Harbi, and Virt after that. Willbender and Bladesworn need some changes. Specter is pretty fine and I find it hilarious that the thieves get the best designed spec. I am hopeful the Nov beta will reveal wonderful and thoughtful changes to each of these but there is some serious anxiety in the air over the state of the EoD specs.

[Linken.6345]

On 10/27/2021 at 2:01 AM, Rentapest.6503 said:

Ranger & Thief Beta Elite Feedback:

 

I'm very disappointed with both the Ranger and Thief elites. 😞 Let's start with Ranger...

 

Ranger - Yet another melee spec for a ranged profession. I was honestly hoping Ranger would get Rifle, putting "range" back into "RANGEr". Suggest we rename to melee'er instead. Yawn. Completely uninterested, and back 2x Longbows ... sigh.

 

Thief - Yet another ranged weapon for a melee profession. Instead of sneaking around assassinating people with insane melee skills and stealth, we have a ranged support role to fulfill? Really? Yawn. Completely uninterested, and back to Daredevil Staff (the only melee choice these days for aoe)...sigh.

 Aragorn is a ranger and he use longsword primary weapon.

So were in this Merriam-Webster snipet do it say anything about long range weapons?

What ranger means?

: a person in charge of managing and protecting part of a public forest. : a person in charge of managing and protecting part of a national park. : a soldier in the U.S. Army who has special training especially in fighting at close range.

 

[KinkyPotato.4219]

48 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

I understand that PoF specs ruined the game balance and you wanted to be conservative with these.... but these are just bad. Like REALLY bad. Some of them on a conceptual level, not just numbers. Vindi, Cata, and Untamed need the most love. Mech, Harbi, and Virt after that. Willbender and Bladesworn need some changes. Specter is pretty fine and I find it hilarious that the thieves get the best designed spec. I am hopeful the Nov beta will reveal wonderful and thoughtful changes to each of these but there is some serious anxiety in the air over the state of the EoD specs.

Nailed it - they only have three weeks to turn it around in the final beta which is very optimistic. If it took them x amount of months in development time to come up with these awful specs, curb your expectations accordingly and realize that a lot won't be changed in three weeks...sadly.

[aintnoprophetjr.7068]

So final 3 specializations have come out and they are interesting. Almost anything is better than the awful spec for the ele. However, I am really loving and excited about some of these ones for sure.

SPECTER: Ok, so this one I want to start with because holy sugar this is cool. A heal thief. I love this idea make it different and unique, that is what gw2 is all about. So doing this one is an awesome idea. I have a couple of diff issues though. One is that for offhand the thief doesn't have many good options especially for support. So this is something that I am unsure of how to fix or how you will do with it. Could be very interesting to see what the move is here, but I am unsure that dagger is the best idea. Two, I think that scepter skills need to bounce more. Some of these things are single target and it won't be super useable in certain situations. However, I think that the auto of the scepter does bounce I think, but not enough. Make a spec trait that causes these things to bounce more or something. You could even lower the barrier if you bounce more. Thirdly, I am pretty confused by what the shadow shroud does. It can tether which is unique. However some big issues is you don't as a healer have a specific target that you need to heal. Its just the whole team needs it which is why I vote for more aoe or bounces on this. However this is such a cool idea the wells are awesome and seem to have a lot of potential. You could absolutely use this guy a lot in fractals or other dungeons for healing and or alac. This one is the coolest out of the three.

MECHANIST:  I dont mind this one per se. However, the mace seems counter intuitive a bit based on its damage. The build seems pdps but the mace has a lot of condi. I think this one has a bit of damage potential at least from what I saw. I built for a dps, but total around 7-8k dps. It has potential, but maybe I wasnt doing good moves with it. However the robot is super cool. I don't like pets in this game to be honest cuz the AI can mess you sometimes. I wish there was a way to move the bot better diff from the sigil that blinks you and the bot. You could also think about fusing with the bot to do something super cool. Or hopping into the bot, just for ideas. But this bot is cool. I have found that sometimes when I activate skills in the bot they don't happen and I have to spam it a couple of times. Also I can only see cooldown timers on the middle robot skill. Also what is the connection between toolbelt skills and the bot skills? are they the same? Else wise this one is cool and has some interesting dmg potential. The bots attributes seem a bit broken though. 

UNTAMED: I like the idea of the glass cannon it is fun to dish it out but you gotta be careful. However, this build kinda seems boring. As well as the dmg doesn't seem very good either. The hammer is too slow and the dps from it and or the unleashing is negligible. This one was boring to play as, it was very slow and clunky. I dont really understand what diff if any happened when I unleashed or my pet did and then from there it did like maybe some diff skills for pet that felt like no dmg and then for me I dont hardly feel any difference or see any. I saw a little bit in animation, but it doest hit me at all. I dont really like the ranger current, the best dps in the game is condi so thats always the move, which i wish we could up pdps a bit. But yeah I wasnt a fan of the ranger, I didnt get it, I dont like hammers and it was meh. 

 

 

TLDR: Thief healer is super cool, needs some more aoe on scepter. Engi has good potential dmg, but should make robot controllable. Ranger was boring and kinda no pay off to using skills. 
 

[dougalkeane.4601]

I am a ranger main and was VERY excited or Untamed. I have a great condi Soulbeast build and it has great sustain with that poison trait and it is great. I am tired of every better build being condi though and I love Power builds because they are simple so when I saw that Untamed would be getting hammer to do big damage I got so excited. I also saw the trait lines in the preview and got even more excited (especially with the trait that heals for 10% of damage you deal). Playing it though I was severely disappointed. I was doing no damage at all. You guys started us with Marauder gear which I thought was perfect, berserker with some tankyness. I even Marksmanship and beastmastery so there was a tone of synergy around disabling foes and doing more damage to those disabled/interrupted foes. But good gosh I was doing barely any damage at all. I even switched almost all of the gear to Assassin (except for the backpack, I dont know why yall give us every armor piece, trinket, and weapon except backpack)  so with Fury I was doing CRIT 80% but even with that my damage was crap. I was also attacking so slowly that the healing was basically useless. Please change the damage on this spec. Either get rid of that one trait that decreases the damage we do, increase the hammer speed and damage, give us a ton of quickness, or increase the healing of that grandmaster. Also I found it incredibly disappointing that we do not get unleashed versions of the other ranger weapons. I thought about using other faster attack speed weapons but only half have any sort of stun to synergize with so I felt very forced to use the hammer which was giving out shite damage and attack speed. It just felt so limited in what I could do compared to other elite specs.

 

TLDR. Untamed does no damage/has too low attack speed, because of that the heal 10% strike damage grandmaster trait is useless. Despite plenty of synergy with stuns from Marksmanship and Beastmastery, the extra damage is barely noticeable. No unleashed skills for other weapons, limiting what the class can actually do well, which is basically nothing but stun things.