Thief mains need to riot. Like, seriously

[Rouien.5234]

As someone who's played this games PvP for like 7 years on and off, I always saw thief as one of the classes that had a SUPER high skill cap. That and maybe like, ele. I'm an engineer main and it always bugged me that as an engie, could do the same thing thief could in some ways but not be punished as harshly for messing up. Like, as a PvPer, I HATED roaming because thieves felt pretty threatening. And not saying they're completely useless. I've gotten downed by deadeyes and core thieves a bit in sPvP and WvW, but they need a lot more love than they've gotten. I never played a thief but, from the outside looking in, it looked really stressful and almost unrewarding.

Like I would theory-craft and say that thieves NEED a class that really sets them apart from the others because you have classes/specs that steal from them or just kinda do their job a little better. One idea I had was like an ACTUAL duelist thief that could handle mid-fights and be inside zergs or mid-fights KINDA as well as a warrior-- So maybe like a samurai or something that gives thieves some type of damage midigation outside of just stealth. Maybe deflects, parries, ETC. 

One thing I wouldn't be upset about is if thieves got a true ninja spec or something where they just get like clones or if they were invulnerable while in stealth and couldn't get knocked out of it or something IDK.

TBH if i was in PvP  and i swatted a thief and got the "invulnerable" pop up, I'd be like "finally... true justice" and then die probably cause that's scary.

IDK, it's just something I've been thinking about as I see these new classes that are basically all "Speed and mobility" and "High risk and high reward!" while the thief is sitting there shrugging like "wellp, guess everybody is just doing my job now".

TLDR - I /REALLY/ hope thieves get some more love. As an engie main, I get really tired of seeing other specs bully my fellow medium armor homies (Cept ranger. F*** em) and I've lost so many of my thief main friends who just hated having to deal with the lack of meaningful additions/change to their class. Hopes to y'all getting SOMETHING good.

[Keitaro Dragonheart.9047]

I'm honestly really glad someone else said something. After watching the trailers for Virtuoso, Harbinger, and Willbender, and then not seeing anything in the upcoming balance patch for thief, I was seriously getting annoyed. And Warrior, my third favorite class behind Mesmer, getting slapped in the face with this latest patch is like...what in the name of heck, Anet?!

 

https://ifunny.co/picture/BnS9Scqo7?s=cl

[itspomf.9523]

1 hour ago, Rouien.5234 said:

As someone who's played this games PvP for like 7 years on and off, I always saw thief as one of the classes that had a SUPER high skill cap. That and maybe like, ele. I'm an engineer main and it always bugged me that as an engie, could do the same thing thief could in some ways but not be punished as harshly for messing up. Like, as a PvPer, I HATED roaming because thieves felt pretty threatening. And not saying they're completely useless. I've gotten downed by deadeyes and core thieves a bit in sPvP and WvW, but they need a lot more love than they've gotten. I never played a thief but, from the outside looking in, it looked really stressful and almost unrewarding.

Like I would theory-craft and say that thieves NEED a class that really sets them apart from the others because you have classes/specs that steal from them or just kinda do their job a little better. One idea I had was like an ACTUAL duelist thief that could handle mid-fights and be inside zergs or mid-fights KINDA as well as a warrior-- So maybe like a samurai or something that gives thieves some type of damage midigation outside of just stealth. Maybe deflects, parries, ETC. 

One thing I wouldn't be upset about is if thieves got a true ninja spec or something where they just get like clones or if they were invulnerable while in stealth and couldn't get knocked out of it or something IDK.

TBH if i was in PvP  and i swatted a thief and got the "invulnerable" pop up, I'd be like "finally... true justice" and then die probably cause that's scary.

IDK, it's just something I've been thinking about as I see these new classes that are basically all "Speed and mobility" and "High risk and high reward!" while the thief is sitting there shrugging like "wellp, guess everybody is just doing my job now".

TLDR - I /REALLY/ hope thieves get some more love. As an engie main, I get really tired of seeing other specs bully my fellow medium armor homies (Cept ranger. F*** em) and I've lost so many of my thief main friends who just hated having to deal with the lack of meaningful additions/change to their class. Hopes to y'all getting SOMETHING good.

 

As a thief main since before launch, thank you.  Thank you so much.

 

I hope Engie gets some much-needed love, too.  You guys have had to deal with so much as well, nevermind a constantly shifting identity in the name of "purity of purpose."

[MrForz.1953]

I can't tell if Thieves were truly victim of their complainers, if they brought that on themselves, or if Anet simply made mistakes on their own, or all of that.

 

The class, at least in WvW PvP got pigeonholed into the overpowered Shadow Arts so much one would believe it's pretty much baseline, core mechanics while it's actually not. And requests by some Thieves including myself to rip the bandaid and gut that trait line while pumping more protective abilities in Acrobatics and more lethality into Critical Strikes are shot down because many other Thieves would rather step on a lego than give up a part of their precious stealth safety in exchange for different viable directions, viable builds and viable playstyles. I'm also pretty sure that Deadeye was some fanservice to please the edgelords to the detriment of the class itself.

 

This is also the first time, much like the Engineer that Thieves got something borrowed from them.

 

First, with this much doomsaying, I find it highly hypocritical to want the monopoly of mobility (for this instance) for oneself alone, it's like saying that Necromancer should be the only one being close to unkillable and that they're out of a job when bunker Engi enters the arena.

 

And second: The rise of Willbender among the mobile specs are likely a sidegrade rather than an upgrade, they may retain some protective abilities while being mobile but Thieves still got access to stealth, and with the mentioned changes in the first paragraph, instead of the stealth crutch, they could maybe evade for days, maybe hit harder.

 

Lastly, we don't know what's in store for Thief in EoD, maybe another job opportunity.

 

I had to write this because I can perceive a way out of the trap the class is inside of. I really cannot figure anything out for the poor Warrior as example without a major rework.

 

That's... my two cents I guess, not as a main but an invested thief player nonetheless, I'd rather think about it than wail or riot.

[Doggie.3184]

Well I did want Shadow Form back in the form of replacing the stealth and reveal system with it adding a veil of shadow magic instead, or black fire if Torch brought the theme, that gave some form of defense so I can be more brawler-like the way GW1 assassins were with their block spam. Maybe it could even work like Scourge barriers but I'll take anything that makes me a tanky Assassin again over being invisible and dealing with all it's stitches and ductape..

 

This class has been a broken QA disaster ever since the game's release. It started with many weapon sets and concepts totally unfinished, strangely organized (power+condi skills on D/D where you only pick one or the other and spam it) or designed solely for PvP and still bad (like Pistol/Dagger, P/P and Sword). Many often faced nerfs anyways despite this causing the original design/concepts to break without being fixed because apparently stealth makes even garbage designed skills too scary to PvPers.

 

You could pop up from stealth without a weapon equipped and boop someone on the nose and then stealth + flee and they'd have a heart attack and run to forums. It simply didn't matter what you did, stealth was TERRIFYING. Revealed wasn't even something intented at first, and it being added constantly clashed with so much. But 'stealth was too stronk' to PvPers and they kept messing with things with little care on how it effected PvE too and how a lot of things were supposed to work.

 

I remember back when they what, raised the reveal timer was it? And it made the dagger auto attack chain -> to cloak and dagger to unsync and just feel awful. Thieves were so angry and raged more than they ever have in history so much that they undid the nerf. But at some point in the future with Deadeye they sneakily readded it and no one said a thing and now it's not a fluid chain anymore. But I guess everyone just AAs with dagger now and ignores most of the outdated-hybrid-layout-skill-set anyways or just doesn't play anymore to care.

 

Another incident I recall like that was when they made steal require a target and undid it from the immense rage it caused. Funny enough Deadeye steal was designed to require target and is pretty deprived of speed in exchange for the range not many even use because Rifle had very little thought put into it beyond all the tools built in to allow it to be easily countered. I think that's where all the thinking for it went into. (also wtf is with Daredevil Swipe and why didn't anyone care? that was random af and offers nothing in return for the nerf, especially in PvE)

 

I saw a huge problem from the start with how much people simply couldn't copium with stealth, pretty much ever... nomatter if Thief died to a stubbed toe, and I would have rather they just deleted it from the game if it meant our suffering would end and they could actually design a good Assassin/Thief class finally. But I guess that just went to Guardian? (which I've always considered Anet's sugarbaby with the least or no flaws, so it figures).

 

The last major rebalance just made me tired of dealing with stealth and been playing Daredevil without a single stealth skill (and mostly core utility skills because DD skills are bleh) ever since just so I don't have to deal with the nerfbat abuse and broken/crappy mechanics that are weighed down by heavy ductape holding it together. Ironically I still get rage whispers by people who actually THINK I used stealth somehow to kill them, because they just have that much hatred and PTSD from it, and I have to tell them I literally have nothing slotted to stealth me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

PS: no valid path to target.

[BadSanta.6527]

I dont get thief mains complains about willbender  its gurdian interpetation for thief.  Its will have less synergy with mobility then thief.  Honstley dont get to exited the elite will be op to sell us the expantion look at druid past vs present. 

Just focus on thief , we have to see what arenet will make maybe thief interpetation for gurd. It will be halerious gurd main will complain about thief and the reverae

[Zacchary.6183]

7 minutes ago, BadSanta.6527 said:

I dont get thief mains complains about willbender  its gurdian interpetation for thief.

It isn't all thief mains, just the ones who wanted OH Sword Ninja. I say wait for our elite spec before sharing complaints.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Zacchary.6183

[BadSanta.6527]

You still dont know of you get it or not. 

Both expac we got similarity on wepons shield crono and hearld , dagger sb and spellbrraker. 

Axe mirage and fb

Staff druid and dd

The point is that until that point arenet choose some wepons and go with them aometimes they got wield and give tourch or warhorne or if you lucy greatsword xd 

Its likely thief will get sword or gs and ill be glad with both

[Doggie.3184]

4 minutes ago, Zacchary.6183 said:

It isn't all thief mains, just the ones who wanted OH Sword Ninja. I say wait for our elite spec before sharing complaints.

 

It's more about it just makes what we currently have look even worse when they don't just borrow from us, they take it and 2.0 it. Which is why I said in another post that whatever our Elite Spec is, it isn't even going to solve these problems we currently have. 

[shrew.3059]

3 minutes ago, Zacchary.6183 said:

It isn't all thief mains, just the ones who wanted OH Sword Ninja. I say wait for our elite spec before sharing complaints.

 

Some Thieves feel that they have been consistently ignored by the developers while that attention has been heaped upon Guardians. Willbender seems to confirm those suspicions.

[Zacchary.6183]

1 minute ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

Some Thieves feel that they have been consistently ignored by the developers while that attention has been heaped upon Guardians. Willbender seems to confirm those suspicions.

That's almost all thieves since launch. In fact we did drop thief for warriors and guardians years ago when anet made it clear they didn't listen by saying so and then submitting their previous list of changes with some rewording.

[Tails.9372]

29 minutes ago, BadSanta.6527 said:

I dont get thief mains complains about willbender

 

If nothing else that one should have been obvious, many players asked for an e-spec more focused on duelling and would have gladly given up some access to stealth for it. Now the "assassin like" dual sword e-spec guardians got is essentially what these people have been asking for all along and the remarks like "but you got access to stealth" feel like sarcasm to them.

[MrForz.1953]

24 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

 

If nothing else that one should have been obvious, many players asked for an e-spec more focused on duelling and would have gladly given up some access to stealth for it.

 

Like slight nerfs to shadow arts and buffs to acrobatics and making critical strikes desirable? It can be done with core already, pushed by S/D if the numbers were more convincing than they are now.

Edited August 14, 2021 by MrForz.1953

[Tails.9372]

10 minutes ago, MrForz.1953 said:

Like slight nerfs to shadow arts and buffs to acrobatics and making critical strikes desirable?

 

Depends on who you ask and what they want. I personally don't care much for dual sword so you would have to ask those who do. I however wouldn't mind a total rework for P/P in order to turn it into a weapon set that excels at duelling even if that means that all of its weapon skills apply "revealed" to the user.

[BobbyT.7192]

I'm mad looking at the new guardian spec, like some of those items I wanted for the thief. Like 'reversal of fortune'. Mostly for the name, but also the effect would be nice if tooled properly for the thief.

[Vidit.7108]

I don't actually mind that Guardian gets a daredevil-like espec or that Necro gets some cool pistol tricks. That's not a problem.

What I DO mind is that over the years as "game balance" they've chipped away and removed things from base thief because it was supposedly too OP when thief could do it. Especially back when they didn't split PVP/WvW from PvE.

They're not going to go back and lower the initiative costs they raised now that more mobility exists for other classes. It also feels a little intentional and insulting that you announce these elite specs and then leave us out of the patch notes on the same day. 

[shrew.3059]

6 hours ago, Vidit.7108 said:

It also feels a little intentional and insulting that you announce these elite specs and then leave us out of the patch notes on the same day. 

 

Optics are important; a class that feels neglected, sees their toys given to the “favoured son”, and then isn’t even mentioned in the latest patch preview. It may not be intentional, but these little things send a message to Thief mains: we don’t see you. Stealth indeed…

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

The problem with thieves is they're annoying.  I was one of the people calling for thief nerfs like 8 years ago because they basically felt like a griefing class in WvW. After a while I realised that they have their own glaring weaknesses, but that still doesn't change the fact that it isn't fun to be attacked from stealth with a burst that downs you in 2 seconds. So it's like they have to balance how inherently annoying thief is, with how effective it actually is. This makes it pretty much doomed to be slightly underpowered for eternity.

[Aeolus.3615]

41 minutes ago, Elricht Kaltwind.8796 said:

The problem with thieves is they're annoying.  I was one of the people calling for thief nerfs like 8 years ago because they basically felt like a griefing class in WvW. After a while I realised that they have their own glaring weaknesses, but that still doesn't change the fact that it isn't fun to be attacked from stealth with a burst that downs you in 2 seconds. So it's like they have to balance how inherently annoying thief is, with how effective it actually is. This makes it pretty much doomed to be slightly underpowered for eternity.

 

Note class name, its not an assassin, its a thief, its more to be played arround poke targets and be anoying more than damage.

 

[The Boz.2038]

25 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

Note class name, its not an assassin, its a thief, its more to be played arround poke targets and be anoying more than damage.

 

AHahahaha!
Good one!
Now do Guardian!

[pureskullz.7536]

 I don't know if it's just me but it's kitten annoying to be ignored for years than get the elite spec reveals being what many people have wanted thief to be reworked as and then on top of that exclude the class from the balance patch when it's been in need of one for some time(years). The biggest thing the class has going for it at the moment is stealth and kitten near everything else is lacking in effectiveness it's practically a joke.

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Now do Guardian!

The guardian is a mentor, someone that guide you through the right path. That's why he got a lot of support and the ability to teach rangers how to trap, to teach elementalists how to blast an area with fire/heal/boons and, soon, the ability to teach thiefs how to move around... 😉

Edited August 15, 2021 by Dadnir.5038

[ASP.8093]

4 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

Note class name, its not an assassin, its a thief, its more to be played arround poke targets and be anoying more than damage.

 

They call it 'thief' yet people get real salty when I steal their keeps.

[reddie.5861]

23 hours ago, Rouien.5234 said:

As someone who's played this games PvP for like 7 years on and off, I always saw thief as one of the classes that had a SUPER high skill cap. That and maybe like, ele. I'm an engineer main and it always bugged me that as an engie, could do the same thing thief could in some ways but not be punished as harshly for messing up. Like, as a PvPer, I HATED roaming because thieves felt pretty threatening. And not saying they're completely useless. I've gotten downed by deadeyes and core thieves a bit in sPvP and WvW, but they need a lot more love than they've gotten. I never played a thief but, from the outside looking in, it looked really stressful and almost unrewarding.

Like I would theory-craft and say that thieves NEED a class that really sets them apart from the others because you have classes/specs that steal from them or just kinda do their job a little better. One idea I had was like an ACTUAL duelist thief that could handle mid-fights and be inside zergs or mid-fights KINDA as well as a warrior-- So maybe like a samurai or something that gives thieves some type of damage midigation outside of just stealth. Maybe deflects, parries, ETC. 

One thing I wouldn't be upset about is if thieves got a true ninja spec or something where they just get like clones or if they were invulnerable while in stealth and couldn't get knocked out of it or something IDK.

TBH if i was in PvP  and i swatted a thief and got the "invulnerable" pop up, I'd be like "finally... true justice" and then die probably cause that's scary.

IDK, it's just something I've been thinking about as I see these new classes that are basically all "Speed and mobility" and "High risk and high reward!" while the thief is sitting there shrugging like "wellp, guess everybody is just doing my job now".

TLDR - I /REALLY/ hope thieves get some more love. As an engie main, I get really tired of seeing other specs bully my fellow medium armor homies (Cept ranger. F*** em) and I've lost so many of my thief main friends who just hated having to deal with the lack of meaningful additions/change to their class. Hopes to y'all getting SOMETHING good.

thief is beast in PvE so anet will never really see how bad thief is.

i mean remove mobility from thief and u might aswell completely delete the class cus thats all it has.
back in core days u could actually hit hard with backstab nowadays its meh ;D + blocks all over the place if ur unlucky they just recieved aegis and u slap into a block then u have 1s cd and ur out of stealth getting ur kitten smashed around again 😛

[Zacchary.6183]

On 8/14/2021 at 5:47 PM, shrew.3059 said:

 

Some Thieves feel that they have been consistently ignored by the developers while that attention has been heaped upon Guardians. Willbender seems to confirm those suspicions.

Willbender takes a lot of it's content from Warrior though. The heal is a dead giveaway.