We need non-RNG options for ALL account-bound items. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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We need non-RNG options for ALL account-bound items.

This has been brought up before and will be brought up again until it's fixed.

EVERY ACCOUNT-BOUND ITEM NEEDS A NON-RNG METHOD OF ACQUISITION.

I understand the (extremely) low drop rates for infusions and other high-end items. They keep people playing the game for the chance and their resulting high TP value helps the economy. You have to account for millions or even billions of drop attempts across the playerbase and game lifespan to keep an item rare.

A player attempting to acquire a rare, unbound item is not limited to only the attempts they can personally pull. If the item actually drops, it is the collective roles of everyone going for it that gets that item onto the Trading Post.

A player attempting to acquire a rare, account-bound item, on the other hand, is limited to only the attempts they can do. And the RNG doesn't programmatically get better on failures so the odds never change and "a run of bad luck" can go on forever. A 1 in 100 chance does not mean you'll get the "1" in 100 pulls. It's quite possible that it will never happen.

Two example items that vex me in particular: Tequatl Hoard and Gift of Aurene. I set myself a goal to collect all the spear skins but these two will prevent me from doing that.
Tequatl's Hoard drops from the boss chest itself and from the Exotic event reward chest. Both are limited to once per day. Anecdotally. I have killed Teq dozens of times and haven't received a single hoard. I have received a number of other ascended weapon chests from Teq. While nice for some people, those feels like a slap in the face. Every other drop in the loot-table can be sold on the TP.

Gift of Aurene drops from Dragon Stand chests. I've (again anecdotally) never even seen anyone ping one in chat. You do apparently get one after opening one thousand chests. Ignoring that that is way too long (~2 hours for a map start to finish is 50 chests in a train = 40 hours of Dragonfall for one assuming you hit a map at the start) but what if you want a sword AND shield?

{Side note: can we just buy the keys please? The event farm takes way too long if a map wants to get full loot from boss rush and a player who joins later in the meta misses so much loot during boss rush}

I initially thought that Dragon Bash would help me shortcut some of that as both of these drop in Dragon Coffers. Theoretically anyway. There's a reddit post of a player opening 10,000 coffers. They received no Hoards and no Gifts (and no infusions). So my hopes there are dashed. Again, everything else in the loot-table can be sold on TP.

The solutions aren't hard. In fact, even Black Lion Chests have this sort of backup in Black Lion Statuettes! Just award participation trophies that we can trade.
Alternatively, make a repeatable achievement we can fill. That wouldn't even require a new item ID.

Just please, make these possible within the game's lifetime.

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Comments

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2020

    sorry, but I have to say I mostly not agree with the need for "non-RNG options for ALL account-bound items", when you remove the RNG factor, it removes the excitement factor from the game, especially infusions. and it's because of the rarity that I can still remember the time I got my Queen Bee, it was a late Sunday night after a long time of grinding in SW for bandit crest for the final 3 precursor weapon achieves, I though to myself, let go for one more, and it was this one more that the queen bee dropped, i would not have remember the moment if I could just buy it.


    you do know that Tequatl has a giant loot table right? Tequatl have the potential to drop any core ascended weapon and armor boxes, which makes the chance for Teq hoard to drop lower, but the baseline % is higher than the core ascended weapon and armour boxes it seems.

    and Scion weapons, I would say it is currently tuning is much lower drop rate compared to Sunless because Dragonfall can be farmed over and over again, and the number of chest spawns per round; most likely at 0.1%, because you are guaranteed to get one on the 1000th chest if you have not got one before.
    As long as they add it to guaranteed wardrobe unlocker I'm fine.


    The only problem I have with RNG is a story achievement that's locked behind RNG, the like Gothmar weapons, not cool Anet

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭

    Other than to annoy people and extract as much time/money from them, what is the point of RNG drops anyway?

  • @Atomos.7593 said:
    Other than to annoy people and extract as much time/money from them, what is the point of RNG drops anyway?

    Prestige. To mark yourself as the dedicated elite.

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Atomos.7593 said:
    Other than to annoy people and extract as much time/money from them, what is the point of RNG drops anyway?

    Prestige. To mark yourself as the dedicated elite.

    I guess it could be compared to the idea of lootboxes in games. The person who opens a box the first time and receives a rare item will be very happy, while the person who opens it a thousand times and doesn't get it will be on the opposite end of the spectrum. I don't get what the devs gain from making some customers pleased and other customers disappointed lol. :p

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭

    @Atomos.7593 said:
    I don't get what the devs gain from making some customers pleased and other customers disappointed lol. :p

    @Atomos.7593 said:
    person who opens it a thousand times

    Now imagine there was money involved.

    What could developers possibly gain from such a system?

    Cat: Meow.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would be more inclined to agree if such items were required to advance the story or somehow prevented players from continuing to play.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Chrury.4627Chrury.4627 Member ✭✭✭

    @crepuscular.9047 said:

    you do know that Tequatl has a giant loot table right? Tequatl have the potential to drop any core ascended weapon and armor boxes, which makes the chance for Teq hoard to drop lower, but the baseline % is higher than the core ascended weapon and armour boxes it seems.

    and Scion weapons, I would say it is currently tuning is much lower drop rate compared to Sunless because Dragonfall can be farmed over and over again, and the number of chest spawns per round; most likely at 0.1%, because you are guaranteed to get one on the 1000th chest if you have not got one before.

    I'm of the mind that Teq shouldn't drop non-Tequatl ascendeds anymore. Getting ascended gear has never been cheaper or easier (even crafting isn't terrible) and you can still stat swap Tequatl gear.

    And as I mention, 1000 for 1 isn't a good solution because there are 19 weapons. The RNG doesn't change after you got your first.

    @Ronan.9518 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Atomos.7593 said:
    Other than to annoy people and extract as much time/money from them, what is the point of RNG drops anyway?

    Prestige. To mark yourself as the dedicated elite.

    "Prestige"?
    Ok, maybe.

    "To mark yourself as the dedicated elite"?
    That's just plain stupid.
    I can do an event one time and get the drop if the RNG favors me.
    I can do an event a million times and not get the drop if the RNG doesn't favor me.
    How is the person who got the drop at the first try more dedicated than the person who didn't get it after a million tries? Sure that numbers are a bit extreme but it is something that IS possible with RNG.

    Agree with Atomos here. Particularly because these drops (and possibly others) are impossible without a large group. You contributed to get it sure, but it's not like any one player deserves it more than others. Is there really prestige for doing Tequatl these days? Triple Trouble maybe.

    Builds for Runes project | Discussion | Archive

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sadly ArenaNet seems to've given up on updating old content in any way, even minor fixes or QoL improvements.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)
    Sorry I'm not good at communicating.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Sadly ArenaNet seems to've given up on updating old content in any way, even minor fixes or QoL improvements.

    I think it was their initial intent when Mike Z announced it but then he left and there was allegedly a change-up in management, an expansion announced in such a blase way and crumbs of season 1 content that it seems their vision for future content is all over the place. I honestly don't know what is going on with their leadership. They are acting as if they don't have one at the moment though I'm sure covid-19 and closing the offices has contributed to this lack of communication.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @HotDelirium.7984 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Sadly ArenaNet seems to've given up on updating old content in any way, even minor fixes or QoL improvements.

    I think it was their initial intent when Mike Z announced it but then he left and there was allegedly a change-up in management, an expansion announced in such a blase way and crumbs of season 1 content that it seems their vision for future content is all over the place. I honestly don't know what is going on with their leadership. They are acting as if they don't have one at the moment though I'm sure covid-19 and closing the offices has contributed to this lack of communication.

    I'm still waiting to see if the promises of updates to Fractals will pan out or end up like every other announced project..

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)
    Sorry I'm not good at communicating.

  • Zephyr.5382Zephyr.5382 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree 100%, and always have. But they want us eternally chasing carrots in this game....

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    sorry, but I have to say I mostly not agree with the need for "non-RNG options for ALL account-bound items", when you remove the RNG factor, it removes the excitement factor from the game, especially infusions. and it's because of the rarity that I can still remember the time I got my Queen Bee, it was a late Sunday night after a long time of grinding in SW for bandit crest for the final 3 precursor weapon achieves, I though to myself, let go for one more, and it was this one more that the queen bee dropped, i would not have remember the moment if I could just buy it.


    you do know that Tequatl has a giant loot table right? Tequatl have the potential to drop any core ascended weapon and armor boxes, which makes the chance for Teq hoard to drop lower, but the baseline % is higher than the core ascended weapon and armour boxes it seems.

    and Scion weapons, I would say it is currently tuning is much lower drop rate compared to Sunless because Dragonfall can be farmed over and over again, and the number of chest spawns per round; most likely at 0.1%, because you are guaranteed to get one on the 1000th chest if you have not got one before.
    As long as they add it to guaranteed wardrobe unlocker I'm fine.


    The only problem I have with RNG is a story achievement that's locked behind RNG, the like Gothmar weapons, not cool Anet

    Excitement, really? What is exciting in randomly getting an item? If you don't want it, then you just sell it. If you are looking for it, you will propably be more relieved that you never have to do it again than "excited". However, if you have to do it again and again and again and again and again and... You get the picture, if you decide to do it without buying anything, you will be nothing but a husk of a person afterwards. Exciting, am i right?
    RNG is the quick, lazy and easy way to replace any actual system they could have made but this is true, like so many other thing, for all game developers.

  • Kulvar.1239Kulvar.1239 Member ✭✭✭

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    sorry, but I have to say I mostly not agree with the need for "non-RNG options for ALL account-bound items", when you remove the RNG factor, it removes the excitement factor from the game, especially infusions. and it's because of the rarity that I can still remember the time I got my Queen Bee, it was a late Sunday night after a long time of grinding in SW for bandit crest for the final 3 precursor weapon achieves, I though to myself, let go for one more, and it was this one more that the queen bee dropped, i would not have remember the moment if I could just buy it.

    There is no excitement in RNG for many people. It just make the whole thing painful, boring, dull, depressing, frustrating, toxic.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zephyr.5382 said:
    I agree 100%, and always have. But they want us eternally chasing carrots in this game....

    A fun compromise is a happy compromise.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @HotDelirium.7984 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Sadly ArenaNet seems to've given up on updating old content in any way, even minor fixes or QoL improvements.

    I think it was their initial intent when Mike Z announced it but then he left and there was allegedly a change-up in management, an expansion announced in such a blase way and crumbs of season 1 content that it seems their vision for future content is all over the place. I honestly don't know what is going on with their leadership. They are acting as if they don't have one at the moment though I'm sure covid-19 and closing the offices has contributed to this lack of communication.

    I'm still waiting to see if the promises of updates to Fractals will pan out or end up like every other announced project..

    They said the were working on ONE. I'm like only "one"? Why not continuous? I guess they are transitioning to strikes but I love the little lore in the fractals and strikes have little to no story. If they made every strike like shiverpeak pass and lair of the snowmen with some sort of story lead up, I'd leave fractals behind but....eh.......

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Atomos.7593 said:
    Other than to annoy people and extract as much time/money from them, what is the point of RNG drops anyway?

    Prestige. To mark yourself as the dedicated elite.

    It's not much a prestige when a dedicated elite putting a lot of effort into it might never obtain the item, but a lucky new player semi-afking through it their first and only time might, don't you think?

    You know as well as I do that the average player doesn't discern effort from RNG. If it is shiny, rare, and can be shown off, then it will be.

  • Algreg.3629Algreg.3629 Member ✭✭✭

    these mechanics are almost a necessity for games like this, keeps content relevant longer (no, neither like nor dislike that)

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't like RNG.. so yes I agree.

    Rare random drops should never be account bound and account bound items should never be locked behind RNG.
    I struggle enough to get really rare drops, the last thing I want is to finally get one randomly one day and then realize I can't even sell it if I don't want it.

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Algreg.3629 said:
    these mechanics are almost a necessity for games like this, keeps content relevant longer (no, neither like nor dislike that)

    So do long term reward systems.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • AgentMoore.9453AgentMoore.9453 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree with the OP on this one.

    Ideally you'd have two choices with account-bound loot: Slowly work toward your goal (via tokens, achievement rewards, currency purchase, etc.), or get lucky on the way with RNG.

    Both ways mean you're putting in an effort toward your goal, and those who like RNG would still have access to it. Limiting this to account-bound items would also keep the change from affecting the market. I've always loved the parts of GW2 that allow you to customize your experience (renown hearts are a great example since you can complete them in so many ways), and account-bound loot should be no different. No laziness, no free pass, just QoL and concrete goals to work toward.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @HotDelirium.7984 said:

    Not just that but other re

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    The Gift of Aurene definitely put this problem on my radar. 1000 chests for the first one, but after that you must depend on RNG. It doesn't even give you a way to craft the rest if you unlocked the first one. Something like that would significantly make it better if you can get even just one to drop.

    I don't see why it would be horrible to get the first 1 at 1000 and then 1 every 500 from then on. AT least you KNOW the scheduling and god forbid are actually motivated by the confidence in the drop.

    I don't know about others but if I KNEW I was going to get one every XYZ* numbered interval I would happily grind....not begrudgingly grind.

    I did the thousand chests. The amount of hours spent on doing the same map meta to get that many, I wouldn't do it even if it dropped to 500 per repeat. I'd rather spend that time making legendaries.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Algreg.3629 said:
    these mechanics are almost a necessity for games like this, keeps content relevant longer (no, neither like nor dislike that)

    Oh, i don't know. For me, if the drop chance is so low i cannot realistically plan around it anymore, it stops affecting me at all. If said content won't have anything else to keep it relevant for me, the very rare drops won't change it in the slightest.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • GW Noob.6038GW Noob.6038 Member ✭✭✭

    I got my first The Gift of Aurene quite some time ago...after opening 1,000 chests. I want both the scepter and the focus, but I've never heard of anyone getting a second Gift chest...so, I hardly ever go there anymore. Two thumbs-up on this post!

  • Kulvar.1239Kulvar.1239 Member ✭✭✭

    @Algreg.3629 said:
    these mechanics are almost a necessity for games like this, keeps content relevant longer (no, neither like nor dislike that)

    They're not. Farming for a 1% chance and farming for a 100 currency is similar in effort, but more equal for everyone with the ability to get actual progress toward the goal.
    Imagine if killing a foe had a 0.1% chance to make you level up instead of giving XP, that's what RNG is for loot.

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @Atomos.7593 said:
    I don't get what the devs gain from making some customers pleased and other customers disappointed lol. :p

    @Atomos.7593 said:
    person who opens it a thousand times

    Now imagine there was money involved.

    What could developers possibly gain from such a system?

    Haha true. I was intending to add to my previous post, where I was looking for reasons other than money, with that post.

    But if money was a big issue why not make it so that you have to open the box many times to get the rare item (but it is guaranteed to get the item once you open the box this many times) and then everyone would have to pay a lot to get the item, instead of using RNG where someone may get it quickly but others may not? I guess making the drops RNG would make the money issue less transparent and obvious though.

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭

    @Atomos.7593 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @Atomos.7593 said:
    I don't get what the devs gain from making some customers pleased and other customers disappointed lol. :p

    @Atomos.7593 said:
    person who opens it a thousand times

    Now imagine there was money involved.

    What could developers possibly gain from such a system?

    Haha true. I was intending to add to my previous post, where I was looking for reasons other than money, with that post.

    But if money was a big issue why not make it so that you have to open the box many times to get the rare item (but it is guaranteed to get the item once you open the box this many times) and then everyone would have to pay a lot to get the item, instead of using RNG where someone may get it quickly but others may not? I guess making the drops RNG would make the money issue less transparent and obvious though.

    Because of several reasons:

    1) You get less out of whales. Who WILL purchase thousands upon thousands of boxes to get all the 0.000001% chance items.

    2) Random plebs will get put off if they see a large price point on stuck onto the item they want and not bother purchasing any boxes.

    3) This system may as well just put the item for direct purchase in the store. If it is guaranteed after spending so much money on boxes. That way you aren't giving away "Free" boxes when people are dropping money for the rare item.

    4) You exploit people far less. With cheap boxes that have a chance to give the rare item, people are more likely to spend a couple of dollars on a box. Then when they don't get the item... "Oh it's only a couple more dollars for another box no big deal". Then another one and another one and another one and before the person knows it, they've spent $1000 on boxes. (This is one of the primary ways Mobile games earn money, selling lots of "Cheap" stuff that people can end up buying a lot of without realizing)

    Cat: Meow.

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @Atomos.7593 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @Atomos.7593 said:
    I don't get what the devs gain from making some customers pleased and other customers disappointed lol. :p

    @Atomos.7593 said:
    person who opens it a thousand times

    Now imagine there was money involved.

    What could developers possibly gain from such a system?

    Haha true. I was intending to add to my previous post, where I was looking for reasons other than money, with that post.

    But if money was a big issue why not make it so that you have to open the box many times to get the rare item (but it is guaranteed to get the item once you open the box this many times) and then everyone would have to pay a lot to get the item, instead of using RNG where someone may get it quickly but others may not? I guess making the drops RNG would make the money issue less transparent and obvious though.

    Because of several reasons:

    1) You get less out of whales. Who WILL purchase thousands upon thousands of boxes to get all the 0.000001% chance items.

    2) Random plebs will get put off if they see a large price point on stuck onto the item they want and not bother purchasing any boxes.

    3) This system may as well just put the item for direct purchase in the store. If it is guaranteed after spending so much money on boxes. That way you aren't giving away "Free" boxes when people are dropping money for the rare item.

    4) You exploit people far less. With cheap boxes that have a chance to give the rare item, people are more likely to spend a couple of dollars on a box. Then when they don't get the item... "Oh it's only a couple more dollars for another box no big deal". Then another one and another one and another one and before the person knows it, they've spent $1000 on boxes. (This is one of the primary ways Mobile games earn money, selling lots of "Cheap" stuff that people can end up buying a lot of without realizing)

    Interesting, good points.

  • Tekoneiric.6817Tekoneiric.6817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just wish everything on the gem store and in specialty RNG chests in the game could be crafted as an account bound item through elaborate recipes that players have to discover. Even if the cost of crafting was just as costly but more time consuming as acquiring it via the current methods. Imagine a process to craft ebony plank using existing woods to craft unbreakable handles for farming tools.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    I did the thousand chests. The amount of hours spent on doing the same map meta to get that many, I wouldn't do it even if it dropped to 500 per repeat. I'd rather spend that time making legendaries.

    Game mechanics-wise my suggestion is just the healthiest compromise I can think of at the moment.