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Deldrimor Dwarf

cweker.7824cweker.7824 Member ✭✭
edited January 13, 2021 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

I'm just thinking about the dwarf on the picture of the upcoming living world patch... It would be so great to be able to play them in the future. I would reroll from my norn to that kind of dwarf in a matter of sec. Dwarf Guardian, oh boy..

Comments

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would more easily accept dwarves over tengu.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    We should have both, dwarves and tengus. With primordius back i don't understand we don't see them more often (the dwarves). Tengus are from Cantha right?

  • Solanum.6983Solanum.6983 Member ✭✭✭

    Dwarves I could see them possibly considering since I assume you could use everything Norn and just scale it down and voicelines could be reused too.
    Tengu not so much since the sheer amount of work involved in recreating every outfit/armor and rerecording every voiceline would be very expensive and time consuming, I get the appeal but I'm not sure why so many people want a race that would cost a lot of development time and budget that could be used elsewhere.

  • cweker.7824cweker.7824 Member ✭✭
    edited January 13, 2021

    Last time I played as a dwarf was in Warhammer Age of Reckoning and it was one of the most incredible dwarfs model made in mmo history imo. Those in world of warcraft suck.. but the guild wars 2 dwarfs... maaaan.. they've got potential to be better than in warhammer.. I imagine them with those shiny skins we've got nowadays..

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cweker.7824 said:
    Last time I played as a dwarf was in Warhammer Age of Reckoning and it was one of the most incredible dwarfs model made in mmo history imo. Those in world of warcraft suck.. but the guild wars 2 dwarfs... maaaan.. they've got potential to be better than in warhammer.. I imagine them with those shiny skins we've got nowadays..

    You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

  • @Linken.6345 said:

    @cweker.7824 said:
    Last time I played as a dwarf was in Warhammer Age of Reckoning and it was one of the most incredible dwarfs model made in mmo history imo. Those in world of warcraft suck.. but the guild wars 2 dwarfs... maaaan.. they've got potential to be better than in warhammer.. I imagine them with those shiny skins we've got nowadays..

    You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

    I mean, could it hurt? Its been shown that they are not indestructible, and even something simple like a gambeson can dull blows and help prevent chips and cracks.

    Hate Is Fuel.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Combat tonic is likely. Definitely more believable than Tengu. They're just squat Norns.

  • The Fear.3865The Fear.3865 Member ✭✭✭

    Playing dwarves makes no sense, only a few of them remains, and they're supposed to fight against primordius, not havin fun through cantha.

    And IMO, weapons scales too bad on small avatars, please no more.

    Everything's wrong with dwarves.

  • @anduriell.6280 said:
    We should have both, dwarves and tengus. With primordius back i don't understand we don't see them more often (the dwarves). Tengus are from Cantha right?

    Dwarves have always been fighting the destroyers and primordus in the depths of Tyria. They are now introduced as we prepare to fight primordus.
    Thengy are originally from both Cantha and Tyria. They where in GW1 in Tyria as a regular enemy/trashmob with little to no backgroud except that they needed to be killed. In Factions they got more lore. The Tengu in factions where involved in the Tengu wars that ended in a peace treaty with the humans. So they where peacefull and more envolved in the story.

    After GW1, the humans in Cantha become again hostile with the Tengu and tried to purge them, They have fled to Tyria and together with the Tyrian Tengu they founded the dominion of winds. They trade with the other races but stay secluded at least till not.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:
    You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

    Yeah, I am still having a hard time believing that all of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2021

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    Dwarves I could see them possibly considering since I assume you could use everything Norn and just scale it down and voicelines could be reused too.
    Tengu not so much since the sheer amount of work involved in recreating every outfit/armor and rerecording every voiceline would be very expensive and time consuming, I get the appeal but I'm not sure why so many people want a race that would cost a lot of development time and budget that could be used elsewhere.

    This is a common misconception, Tengu were originally planned for release with the game and some parts of the engine were already built for it. For example, Tengu and Charr share rigging, so the devs wouldn't have to recreate every armor and outfit.

    There would be adjustments, sure, but its like Sylvari compared to Human, not some kind of alien.

    Tengu are often requested because they'd be the easiest race to add. Something difficult would be say, Centaurs.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 17k hours, 28k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Auramancer(PvE) & Terakura/Healbreaker(WvW) aka Sea of Sorrows Silver Assaulter [SUKI]
    No need to be best, only good and kind.

  • Solanum.6983Solanum.6983 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    Dwarves I could see them possibly considering since I assume you could use everything Norn and just scale it down and voicelines could be reused too.
    Tengu not so much since the sheer amount of work involved in recreating every outfit/armor and rerecording every voiceline would be very expensive and time consuming, I get the appeal but I'm not sure why so many people want a race that would cost a lot of development time and budget that could be used elsewhere.

    This is a common misconception, Tengu were originally planned for release with the game and some parts of the engine were already built for it. For example, Tengu and Charr share rigging, so the devs wouldn't have to recreate every armor and outfit.

    There would be adjustments, sure, but its like Sylvari compared to Human, not some kind of alien.

    Tengu are often requested because they'd be the easiest race to add. Something difficult would be say, Centaurs.

    I personally think Largos would be the easiest race to add, they're essentially just blue humans and voice lines would just need a distorted filter. Same with Dwarves being just small norn and also being able to reuse their voicelines.

    Putting aside the work that adjusting every existing Charr armor/outfit to fit Tengu I think the biggest hurdle when it comes to adding a new race into the game is voicelines, I doubt they'd ever rerecord all the dialog in the game for a new race It's just way too much work to be worth it. If Tengu do come to the game as a playable race I wouldn't be surprised if they used preexisting voicelines

  • Ogwom.7940Ogwom.7940 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solanum.6983

    I don’t think largos will be likely at all because,

    1. They have giant wing like fins on their backs, so you wouldn’t be able to use back items.
    2. There is already a largos wing/fin back item skin from the gemstore.

    Though perhaps they could make it so that the fins are just an addition to their armour or something? If they did that, they would still have the issue with adding the original fins as a non gemstore item, since many people already paid real money for that specific skin.

    Addressing what you and @kharmin.7683 said about dwarves.
    I don’t see it happening over tengu and it would be very unlikely that we would get dwarves as a playable race.
    Lore wise, dwarves have all turned to stone, so there wouldn’t be a lot of customization available.
    Another point is that since we are getting a dwarf stone infusion that turns all your skin to stone just like a dwarf, it wouldn’t make sense to have dwarves as a race as well, since the infusion would contradict with it.
    The tone of the Rubicon states that they would be “forever transformed”, so I don’t know if they will ever turn back to normal. Perhaps there could be a way, or perhaps we are slightly misinterpreting the vague descriptions inside tome, since back in EotN, we didn’t know exactly what the Rite of the Great Dwarf entailed nor did we know what exactly a Great Destroyer was.
    Dwarves were part of the ancient races from the previous elder dragon rise.
    To me it would make more sense to have tengu come in as a playable race, because they have way more customization options, they are a “newer” race compared to the jotun, dwarves, etc and fit much better lore wise.

    I personally would love either of them as a playable race, but I don’t want to get my hopes up high haha

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sure it would make sense. It's just my preference. If I were able to choose dwarves or tengu, it'd be dwarves.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If we ever get new races, tengu and largos are the most likely. I don't think we'll ever get stone dwarves, not on their current incarnation, but if we ever get to follow some kind of plot were dwarven spirits are reforged into new bodies, then I think dwarves would have great potential as a new playable race. Just like sylvari were an original take on elves, by making them plants, stone dwarves 2.0 could follow the same route, making their new bodies be built by using rocks and minerals.

    Alternatively, I wouldn't be surprised if the third playable race was the sidhe / wardens instead, developing them as "sylvari but ancient and tall instead of young and short", or by giving them a golem-like appearance, their bodies made of stones and vines. Depends on the direction they take with them once we arrive to Cantha, for all we know they might end up being just sylvari with new character customization options.

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    Tengus are from Cantha right?

    Only 2 tribes are from Cantha, there are 3 from Tyria, plus an unknown one speculated to be from Elona.

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    Combat tonic is likely. Definitely more believable than Tengu. They're just squat Norns.

    Would be a great opportunity to sell a voiced combat tonic through the gem store.

    @Ogwom.7940 said:
    I don’t think largos will be likely at all because,

    1. They have giant wing like fins on their backs, so you wouldn’t be able to use back items.
    2. There is already a largos wing/fin back item skin from the gemstore.

    You're assuming largos wings aren't backpacks in the first place. We don't know anything about them, and we've only met the assassins from their race. I mean, imagine meeting a ninja, and believing everyone in Japan looks and acts exactly like that ninja you just met.

    Still, even if the wings were part of their bodies, helms hide asura ears and charr horns all the time, so it would be a non-issue.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2021

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

    Yeah, I am still having a hard time believing that all of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.

    Why? According to the lore, they were all, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual - If they didn't like it, still the best they could hope for was to delay the effect for a while.
    So, all of them eventually succumbing to the ritual is not exactly surprising or doubtful.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ogwom.7940Ogwom.7940 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987

    @Ogwom.7940 said:
    I don’t think largos will be likely at all because,

    1. They have giant wing like fins on their backs, so you wouldn’t be able to use back items.
    2. There is already a largos wing/fin back item skin from the gemstore.

    You're assuming largos wings aren't backpacks in the first place. We don't know anything about them, and we've only met the assassins from their race. I mean, imagine meeting a ninja, and believing everyone in Japan looks and acts exactly like that ninja you just met.

    Still, even if the wings were part of their bodies, helms hide asura ears and charr horns all the time, so it would be a non-issue.

    No, I am not assuming that largos wings aren't backpacks. I already said exactly what you just said.

    @Ogwom.7940 said:
    Though perhaps they could make it so that the fins are just an addition to their armour or something? If they did that, they would still have the issue with adding the original fins as a non gemstore item, since many people already paid real money for that specific skin.

    I do one hundred percent agree though, that they could just hide it like how they do with asura ears, charr horns and etc.

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    Alternatively, I wouldn't be surprised if the third playable race was the sidhe / wardens instead, developing them as "sylvari but ancient and tall instead of young and short", or by giving them a golem-like appearance, their bodies made of stones and vines. Depends on the direction they take with them once we arrive to Cantha, for all we know they might end up being just sylvari with new character customization options.

    This would be pretty cool, but I am slightly doubtful that they would be playable, since we already have a plant based playable race.
    Maybe if they just happen to look like sylvari in GW2 and they get new hairstyles, I could see our sylvari characters getting more customization options too, like the Olmakhan in LS4/PoF.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

    Yeah, I am still having a hard time believing that all of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.

    Why? According to the lore, they were all, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual - If they didn't like it, still the best they could hope for was to delay the effect for a while.
    So, all of them eventually succumbing to the ritual is not exactly surprising or doubtful.

    Even so, magic exists in the world. Maybe some sort of quest to find something that would revert the dwarves from stone? Just a thought.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Ogwom.7940Ogwom.7940 Member ✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

    Yeah, I am still having a hard time believing that all of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.

    Why? According to the lore, they were all, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual - If they didn't like it, still the best they could hope for was to delay the effect for a while.
    So, all of them eventually succumbing to the ritual is not exactly surprising or doubtful.

    Even so, magic exists in the world. Maybe some sort of quest to find something that would revert the dwarves from stone? Just a thought.

    I could see two things happening.

    We either kill Primordus and all dwarves revert back to flesh and bones, or Primordus corrupts and destroys the remaining dwarves while we fight him.

    @Ashantara.8731
    As far as we know, it seems that all dwarves were turned to stone, even the Stone Summit.
    We can see this with the corrupted Stone Summit in the Steel Strike mission, as Primordus seems to only corrupt stone.
    The parts of the Depths of Tyria that we explored in GW1 are an extremely large and vast place under Tyria and all the Dwarves there, reaching far and wide were turned to stone.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    Yeah, I am still having a hard time believing that all of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.

    But that's exactly what happened. That is what the Rite of the Great Dwarf was all about.

    And because of this involuntary stone conversion, the Stone Summit Dwarves sought a solution to stop becoming stone,
    only to accidentally corrupting themselves with Primordus' magic, effectively becoming Lava/Destroyer Dwarves instead of Stone Dwarves.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

    Yeah, I am still having a hard time believing that all of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.

    Why? According to the lore, they were all, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual - If they didn't like it, still the best they could hope for was to delay the effect for a while.
    So, all of them eventually succumbing to the ritual is not exactly surprising or doubtful.

    Even so, magic exists in the world. Maybe some sort of quest to find something that would revert the dwarves from stone? Just a thought.

    they specifically said deldrimor dwarfs, what if there are other families that renounced the great dwarf and are living somewhere out of reach for now.
    a possible expansion, a legit way to add dwarfs.

    the truth is harsh, my opinions are too.

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2021

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @cweker.7824 said:
    Last time I played as a dwarf was in Warhammer Age of Reckoning and it was one of the most incredible dwarfs model made in mmo history imo. Those in world of warcraft suck.. but the guild wars 2 dwarfs... maaaan.. they've got potential to be better than in warhammer.. I imagine them with those shiny skins we've got nowadays..

    You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

    Maybe your character went to sleep naked one day and woke up as stone? Then while still sleepy put clothes on as normal, looked in the mirror and said: W.T.F?!

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @cweker.7824 said:
    Last time I played as a dwarf was in Warhammer Age of Reckoning and it was one of the most incredible dwarfs model made in mmo history imo. Those in world of warcraft suck.. but the guild wars 2 dwarfs... maaaan.. they've got potential to be better than in warhammer.. I imagine them with those shiny skins we've got nowadays..

    You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

    Maybe your character went to sleep naked one day and woke up as stone? Then while still sleepy put clothes on as normal, looked in the mirror and said: W.T.F?!

    Yea because you totaly dont see any part of your body before you put on clothes, like for example your hand? :astonished:

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    Tengus are from Cantha right?

    Only some Tribes were, other Tengu tribes lived elsewhere in Tyria before many of them unified and built the Dominion of Winds.

  • Ogwom.7940Ogwom.7940 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

    Yeah, I am still having a hard time believing that all of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.

    Why? According to the lore, they were all, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual - If they didn't like it, still the best they could hope for was to delay the effect for a while.
    So, all of them eventually succumbing to the ritual is not exactly surprising or doubtful.

    Even so, magic exists in the world. Maybe some sort of quest to find something that would revert the dwarves from stone? Just a thought.

    they specifically said deldrimor dwarfs, what if there are other families that renounced the great dwarf and are living somewhere out of reach for now.
    a possible expansion, a legit way to add dwarfs.

    I don’t think you can renounce the rite.
    All the dwarves, including the stone summit turned to stone.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stone_Summit

    Check under the History tab and search for the 2 headings, “Legacy” and “The Icebrood Saga”.
    Read both and it will explain that they all turned to stone, but there does seem to be ancient spells that could potentially reverse the effects?
    These stone summit tried to reverse the rite but were driven mad and corrupted by Primordus as a result of using Destroyer energy/magic to channel into their rituals.

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Tome_of_the_Rubicon

    This is another link to show that it seems to be a race wide transformation.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited 1:09AM

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    they specifically said deldrimor dwarfs, what if there are other families that renounced the great dwarf and are living somewhere out of reach for now.
    a possible expansion, a legit way to add dwarfs.

    The ritual does not link to faith or nationality. It links to one of the core racial features. The only way to renounce that link would be to stop being a dwarf.

    Notice, how it affected not only Deldrimor dwarves, that were willing and enacted the ritual, but the Stone Summit dwarves as well - that were definitely not willing, and have already turned to worshipping other entities (like The Great Destroyer, and later Primordius). It didn't help them, and they were still pulled along against their will. Apart from those that let themselves be corrupted (which turned them from being dwarves into dragon minions).

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited 10:14AM

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I am still having a hard time believing that all of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.

    Why? According to the lore, they were all, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual

    Hmm, well, I only know the lore from the game itself, and in GW1 it was depicted in a way that showed only the Deldrimor Dwarves coming together for the ritual. I don't recall any dwarves from distant regions being part of it (or at least shown to be part of it) - or perhaps I just forgot about that vital detail?

    So if this is the official lore version (as explained in novels, interviews or other outside sources), then of course you are right that there is no chance to find a non-transformed dwarf anywhere in Tyria. However... you forgot about the Stone Summit Dwarves. They were not transformed. That's why I assume that there must be more dwarven groups that weren't affected.

    P.S. The GW1 Wiki even states that you have to undertake the Rite in order to transform. You are not being transformed automatically just because you are a dwarf: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwarf

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited 10:35AM

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I am still having a hard time believing that all of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.

    Why? According to the lore, they were all, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual

    Hmm, well, I only know the lore from the game itself, and in GW1 it was depicted in a way that showed only the Deldrimor Dwarves coming together for the ritual. I don't recall any dwarves from distant regions being part of it (or at least shown to be part of it) - or perhaps I just forgot about that vital detail?

    So if this is the official lore version (as explained in novels, interviews or other outside sources), then of course you are right that there is no chance to find a non-transformed dwarf anywhere in Tyria. However... you forgot about the Stone Summit Dwarves. They were not transformed. That's why I assume that there must be more dwarven groups that weren't affected.

    P.S. The GW1 Wiki even states that you have to undertake the Rite in order to transform. You are not being transformed automatically just because you are a dwarf: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwarf

    „Eventually, all Dwarves undertook the Rite of the Great Dwarf.“
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwarf

    What happened to the stone summit / a splinter group that didn‘t reunite with the deldrimor dwarves (Ingame books found in Forging Steel)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Books:_Records_of_the_Stone_Summit

    Edit: From the GW2 wiki (usermade like the GW1 wiki, not everything is necessarily correct)
    „Eventually, all dwarves were made to undergo the rite—by force, if necessary“
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transformation_of_the_Dwarves

    So, unless there‘s a dwarf group that is completely isolated from the rest, similiar to the Olmakhan, there are no flesh dwarves left.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    „Eventually, all Dwarves undertook the Rite of the Great Dwarf.“
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwarf

    Yes, but that is inaccurate. We saw non-transformed Stone Summit in "Forging Steel".

    So, unless there‘s a dwarf group that is completely isolated from the rest, similiar to the Olmakhan, there are no flesh dwarves left.

    1. See Stone Summit in "Forging Steel".
    2. There could be isolated Dwarves, that's what I have been saying all the time. The devs simply have to choose so.
  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited 10:59AM

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    „Eventually, all Dwarves undertook the Rite of the Great Dwarf.“
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwarf

    Yes, but that is inaccurate. We saw non-transformed Stone Summit in "Forging Steel".

    So, unless there‘s a dwarf group that is completely isolated from the rest, similiar to the Olmakhan, there are no flesh dwarves left.

    1. See Stone Summit in "Forging Steel".
    2. There could be isolated Dwarves, that's what I have been saying all the time. The devs simply have to choose so.

    The Stone Summit in Forging Steel is the splinter group that started to transform to stone, the ones in the Records of the Stone Summit.
    (When we fight them in FS, they‘re already ED minions, fully transformed.)
    „ The process of recording my thoughts is becoming more difficult. The stone has progressed to my wrist. There is no escaping the Rite, much as I may resist.“

    They then turned to Primordus to withstand the stone corruption, but this ultimately led to themselves being turned into Primordus minions. They simply overrode the stone corruption with ED corruption.
    „ The mood has chilled. We speak little. There is a burning within us.
    This will pass. Like with the stone, we must acclimate to fire.“

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I am still having a hard time believing that all of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.

    Why? According to the lore, they were all, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual

    Hmm, well, I only know the lore from the game itself, and in GW1 it was depicted in a way that showed only the Deldrimor Dwarves coming together for the ritual. I don't recall any dwarves from distant regions being part of it (or at least shown to be part of it) - or perhaps I just forgot about that vital detail?

    No, you remember correctly. What you did miss however was that while only the Deldrimor dwarves initiated the Rite, the Rite itself comes from the connection to The Great Dwarf (which all dwarves have) and through that connection it forces itself on every dwarf out there - including those that were not present. Whether they want it or not.
    Rite of the Great Dwarf is in reality not the ritual that Deldrimor peformed - it is the process of transformation itself. The ritual had to be done only once (in fact, it cannot be really repeated, because it requires the Hammer of the Great Dwarf, which only the initial group had access to) but it caused an irreversible effect on the whole race, forcing every single dwarf to undergo the transformation.

    So if this is the official lore version (as explained in novels, interviews or other outside sources), then of course you are right that there is no chance to find a non-transformed dwarf anywhere in Tyria. However... you forgot about the Stone Summit Dwarves. They were not transformed. That's why I assume that there must be more dwarven groups that weren't affected.

    I did not forget about them - i even mentioned them in my previous post, if you haven;t noticed. Stone Summit dwarves were transformed into stone as well. The ones that didn't are those that managed to stop the transformation via dragon corruption. Which turned them from being dwarves into dragon minions.
    So, yeah, you can potentially stop or prevent the Rite, but only by undergoing an even more potent transformation. Basically, in order to not become a Stone Dwarf, you need to stop being a dwarf.

    P.S. The GW1 Wiki even states that you have to undertake the Rite in order to transform. You are not being transformed automatically just because you are a dwarf: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwarf

    Yes, you have to undertake the rite, but it's not really a matter of free will. Through the connection to the Great Dwarf you are essentially forced into undertaking it. With high enough willpower you may be able to resist for a while, but ultimately you will succumb.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It’s discussions like these that show that a campaign in depth concerning dwarves and Primordus has so much potential - for lore and resolving answers as much as anything else.

    Sadly I don’t think we will be seeing such a story

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Ogwom.7940Ogwom.7940 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731
    It is already cannon that those stone summit in the Steel Strike mission were turned to stone or partially to stone as they were still going through with the transformation.
    All of those stone summit that we fought were corrupted by Primordus, as he can only (as we know it) corrupt things such as stone or magma.
    This isolated stone summit group used Primordus’s energy/magic to reverse/stop the effects of the Rite, yet in doing so allowed them to become corrupted.
    This is why the stone summit were summoning destroyers to their side as well as exploding in magma when you kill them.
    Also, there are journal pages scattered throughout the strike mission which actually explains this.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fallen_from_the_Summit

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Books:_Records_of_the_Stone_Summit

    @Ogwom.7940 said:
    @Yggranya.5201

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

    Yeah, I am still having a hard time believing that all of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.

    Why? According to the lore, they were all, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual - If they didn't like it, still the best they could hope for was to delay the effect for a while.
    So, all of them eventually succumbing to the ritual is not exactly surprising or doubtful.

    Even so, magic exists in the world. Maybe some sort of quest to find something that would revert the dwarves from stone? Just a thought.

    they specifically said deldrimor dwarfs, what if there are other families that renounced the great dwarf and are living somewhere out of reach for now.
    a possible expansion, a legit way to add dwarfs.

    I don’t think you can renounce the rite.
    All the dwarves, including the stone summit turned to stone.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stone_Summit

    Check under the History tab and search for the 2 headings, “Legacy” and “The Icebrood Saga”.
    Read both and it will explain that they all turned to stone, but there does seem to be ancient spells that could potentially reverse the effects?
    These stone summit tried to reverse the rite but were driven mad and corrupted by Primordus as a result of using Destroyer energy/magic to channel into their rituals.

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Tome_of_the_Rubicon

    This is another link to show that it seems to be a race wide transformation.

    Here are the links to the information that I already provided to show the lore behind the Rite of the Great Dwarf as well as how all dwarves seemed to be affected.

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I am still having a hard time believing that all of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.

    Why? According to the lore, they were all, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual

    Hmm, well, I only know the lore from the game itself, and in GW1 it was depicted in a way that showed only the Deldrimor Dwarves coming together for the ritual. I don't recall any dwarves from distant regions being part of it (or at least shown to be part of it) - or perhaps I just forgot about that vital detail?

    The evidence isn’t always going to be in the voiced dialogue of the main story in GW1 or GW2, but it is there in the dialogue, journals, tomes, people, creatures and etc that we encounter during small side quests and so on.

  • I would absolutely love to play as dwarves and am actually quite interested in Tengu as well.