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[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers)

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  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    your "lots" is about 5 % of the playerbase

    Source?

    compare candy crush to dark souls...that should give you a clue

    Compare a money grabbing mobile game to an actual video game? What would such a comparison prove?

    Apparently it would prove that only 5% of the GW2 playerbase don't enjoy easy content, even though neither Candy Crush nor Dark Souls has anything to do with GW2. (No, I don't get it either.)

  • Henrik.7560Henrik.7560 Member ✭✭✭

    As a player that loves hardcore and challenging content, I do believe story is meant to be a more casual mode and some of the fights are too long or difficult for that aimed playerbase. They've already made fractals excessively harder over the years so if we want challenging, DPS-dependant content go there and do your CMs daily. The story mechanics are generally pretty easy but some of the boss fights are way too long and tedious

    [eA] Sakura | Anvil Rock

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    your "lots" is about 5 % of the playerbase

    Source?

    compare candy crush to dark souls...that should give you a clue

    Let's be clear that both of these franchises make more money than GW2.

    ..and that the Souls games don't need loot boxes and mount skins to do it.

    It also doesn't need permenant maintee cost. But let's ignore those.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    It is an action rpg with arcade elements. So being able to "move and shoot" with some basic platforming and also adapting your build and gear to the situation is part of what you signed up for.
    You don't go playing a strategy game and complain you have to take strategic decisions.
    It does bother me when people play a game that has a clear genre and expectations from a player and when they don't like the game they complain to change it instead of finding a game that suits them. If you want interactive story type of game I am sure that those are out there. But please leave the game that we love as it is. The game is quite clear of what set of skills you need to utilize to be successful.
    I am always ok with different difficult modes. But in a way it does solve that issue with unlimited player re spawns, very generous checkpoints and no mob respawns during story mode.

  • When i play a game i expect it to be harder than the tutorial and a boss to be harder than a simple mob...

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 3, 2019

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    your "lots" is about 5 % of the playerbase

    Source?

    compare candy crush to dark souls...that should give you a clue

    Let's be clear that both of these franchises make more money than GW2.

    ..and that the Souls games don't need loot boxes and mount skins to do it.

    That shows the advantage of having a clearly defined target group, knowing how to pander to that group, and not trying to add to it at the cost of satisfaction of the original players.
    (There's also no need to spend a ton of money into keeping developing new content over and over again, which is hardly an insignificant factor)

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @tnarrant.9714 said:
    To respond to those who say to just optimize your build, I would counter that it would be nice to be able to play a build that is comfortable and fun, and not have to contort to specific builds just to proceed through the story. I play games for fun, not to shoehorn into someone else's ideal build. I'd like to come up with cool build concepts, not ignoring synergies, but not feeling as wedged into some corners.

    This game offers the ability to change your build any time you like, without penalty, as long as you are out of combat. If you enjoy the buildcraft so much, I fail to see how encouraging you to slot something different to suit a specific encounter is an unacceptable solution.
    It's certainly not wedging you into anything. Objectively speaking, it is encouraging you to explore other options.

    I don't want to deny someone the pleasure of build optimizing, but it would be good to have broader choices, and be able to prosper in the story without going full-bore DPS and crit-crazy.

    Currently all story instances can be face- tanked by even the lowest DPS toons. I can't think of a single story instance that has a DPS check. All that "AoE spam" that gets complained about in this thread hits a lot less hard if you have toughness and/or vitality in your gear. You already have multiple choices, outdamage, evade or mitigate.
    You can beat any instance on a power daredevil, you can solo them on a Ventari Rev. Even your wacky-one off rifle warriors or meme build core engi can handle any story instance in the game . While I haven't tried, I am sure my healing tempest can solo Hearts and Minds or Confessor's End.

    I am okay with the idea of either increasing survivability or toning down story bosses a little, while keeping the challenge in fractals and raids and world bosses.

    Challenge...World Bosses.
    I mean we are talking about the same "get as big a group together as possible and press 1 a bunch of times" level of Fire Elemental?
    The only challenge is getting there and getting hits in before the boss goes down. It's among the least challenging content in this game.

    That would let more people enjoy the story and accompanying things like mounts without watering down the whole game.

    Are we now adding the first episode of Path of Fire to the list of instances that are "too hard"?
    Who is it that can't complete the first instance of PoF solo to enjoy their mounts?
    Should we be getting something as important and game changing as the raptor for beating Big Nose Ted?

    The game has already become terribly watered down. And the most expensive to create content is the prime offender.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    (There's also no need to spend a ton of money into keeping developing new content over and over again, which is hardly an insignificant factor)

    Which they actually do and sell as DLC.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 3, 2019

    Clearly going off rails here comparing other franchises with Guild Wars 2. As much as Candy Crush is completely different to Dark Souls, Guild Wars 2 is completely different to both of those. The original post was trying to tell us those that those that need more difficult content (in Guild Wars 2) is 5% of the total population and based it on the difference in population between Candy Crush saga and Dark Souls. The amount of players playing those two games is irrelevant to the players playing Guild Wars 2

    Edit: To satisfy @battledrone.8315
    According to the official Activision-Blizzard quarterly report, King, the developer of Candy Crash, made $526 million in Q1 2019. Sekiro (Dark Souls successor) sold 2 million copies in just 10 days, and was released at the last 10 days of the quarter (March 22, Q1 ended March 31). That's (at $60 a copy) $120 million (in 10 days), excluding the extra price of pre-orders and collector edition copies. This means Candy Crash in a Quarter made approximately x4.4 more money than Sekiro did in 10 days. Meaning, financially, difficulty is a very good thing.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zunki.3916 said:
    Some just want at least some difficulty to overcome

    If someone need "difficulty to overcome" they can chose go to "kill dhum" or etc whit other 3%

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • @lare.5129 said:

    @Zunki.3916 said:
    Some just want at least some difficulty to overcome

    If someone need "difficulty to overcome" they can chose go to "kill dhum" or etc whit other 3%

    And if someone is incapable of even a modicum of challenge, they can go play Hello Kitty Online.

  • I sort of wonder whether ANet has actually already changed what they do in response to this thread. This thread was started early in Season 4. I don't know about anyone else, but I thought there was a noticeable drop in difficulty for the second half of the season: episode 4 didn't have a final boss battle, and the final battles in episodes 5 and 6 felt much easier to me. They even gave you an overpowered super weapon, so your build choices didn't matter so much.

    I don't really get this argument that everything in the story should be easily soloed by anyone with any build and no effort. Did any ANet Devs ever say that the story was supposed to be trivially easy? These are end-of-act boss battles in max-level content! They should at least take a little effort!

    Mind you, I'm of the opinion that if I'm playing a game and I'm not dying relatively frequently, I should be playing on a higher difficulty. Not an option here, of course. Apparently this is quite an unusual point of view...

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodokuna Akuma.9570 said:

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Zunki.3916 said:
    Some just want at least some difficulty to overcome

    If someone need "difficulty to overcome" they can chose go to "kill dhum" or etc whit other 3%

    And if someone is incapable of even a modicum of challenge, they can go play Hello Kitty Online.

    Yes, i'm sure telling the not so insignificant part of GW2 players to leave and play other games instead will do wonders for the franchise.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Zunki.3916Zunki.3916 Member ✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Zunki.3916 said:
    Some just want at least some difficulty to overcome

    If someone need "difficulty to overcome" they can chose go to "kill dhum" or etc whit other 3%

    What the kitten happened to gaming? I mean, I'm okay with someone not wanting to have any challenge and a story mode. But why are others not okay when there is also a challenge mode for the ones who like it? 20% of the gw2eff accounts have done at least one raid and should do fine with a little harder content.

    I'd say a major reason why the challenge motes were not played was that you had to redo the story and could not activate them on your first play-through.
    If you could activate them on the first go then many would maybe try, enjoy and improve. And the ones who would not enjoy could let them be. Everyone happy, except maybe some ppl that do not want others to be happy, but I don't think you should respect that group too much. As I stated tweaking some numbers is not the hard part of the work, the assets, the main code and the story/voice should be where the most hours go down to.

    Viable != Optimal

    Not viable = You only get carried, 10 players with a build as "viable as yours" can't properly do it.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Yes, i'm sure telling the not so insignificant part of GW2 players to leave and play other games instead will do wonders for the franchise.

    The game had the same difficulty ever since Heart of Thorns was released, with certain parts of Path of Fire being even harder. If these people were to leave the game, they would have a long time ago. Asking now, 4 years later to reduce the difficulty of the story is only going to alienate those that are already playing the game, for the sake of either some new players or returning ones. Not really worth it

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I love how the 'majority' of the community blames the 'minority' when it comes to harder content instead of admitting towards the facts that they are lacking in some form or fashion. This game teaches no one. You teach yourself or other people teach you how to play. When I came here three years ago my very first RP guild taught me how to fractal, dungeon run, and eventually raid. An ex of mine taught me to PvP which extended out further to a group of PvP friends I've made.

    The 'majority' of the this game scream the way they do and stick their noses up at anything difficult is because they were taught nothing. They were not taught to fight for gear, mats, they weren't taught combo fields or cooldown handling. Sheesh, even my once noob of a friend that was in the same guild as me is now doing backflips over me in PvP/WvW and more hardcore in PVE than I used to be. And he was WORSE than some of you folks that claim you are casual.

    It is a want to get where you want to go that improves skills and lightens complaints about hardships, not constantly asking developers to dumb it down because people are absolutely REFUSING to want to see any it other way but their own way. In literally any other game you guys are a MINORITY, even forum people that shout are a MINORITY. So please, for the love of god, stop nerfing bosses, loot, and whatever else just because things are not 'fair' and simply go open world like you like to do. There is literally nothing wrong with that. Just stop SPEAKING for everyone else, because even though you say you are not speaking for everyone,your actions EFFECT everyone when Anet makes changes catering to YOU.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Kodokuna Akuma.9570 said:

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Zunki.3916 said:
    Some just want at least some difficulty to overcome

    If someone need "difficulty to overcome" they can chose go to "kill dhum" or etc whit other 3%

    And if someone is incapable of even a modicum of challenge, they can go play Hello Kitty Online.

    Yes, i'm sure telling the not so insignificant part of GW2 players to leave and play other games instead will do wonders for the franchise.

    Just like im sure making this game an idle game will also do wonders for the franchise?

    this game isnt hard, people just need to put that intelligence that they are suposed to have towards actually understanding the game and doing this wonderful thing called self improvement. People would find that self improvement is actually a wonderful feeling.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodokuna Akuma.9570 said:
    this game isnt hard, people just need to put that intelligence that they are suposed to have towards actually understanding the game and doing this wonderful thing called self improvement. People would find that self improvement is actually a wonderful feeling.

    Expecting your players to change their behaviours is an exercise in futility. I don't think it worked for any developer in history. You may make a new game, adressed at a different target group. You may change the existing game to cater at a different part of the community. What you will never be able to do is to have the same group of players change the way they're playing and the things they consider fun. You may complain about that fact, but you will not change it.

    That is besides the point i made. I don't remember even a single game that succeeded by telling their players they should go and play something else instead. Because, funny thing, that makes players do go away and start playing other games. What it doesn't do is bring new players to take place of those that left.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    What you will never be able to do is to have the same group of players change the way they're playing and the things they consider fun.

    But the game has been like this for at least 5 years. In a sense now a new group of players (where were they all this time?) is asking to make changes to the game to make it how -they- consider it fun. Disregarding what the actual players of this game find fun. So it's the other way around, the game has been in one way, with a certain group of players playing it, and long after the fact, there is a desire to change the game to fit some new kind of player.

    I don't remember even a single game that succeeded by telling their players they should go and play something else instead.

    Yes exactly, why would they tell their current players to leave this game because they are gonna turn it into an idle simulator by removing all kinds of challenge and interest from the story? To satisfy some complainers on a forum?

  • Doto.6357Doto.6357 Member ✭✭✭

    I don’t get people like the OP. So you died fighting a boss. It’s happened to all of us at some point. Rather than coming to the forums to ask for tips and recommendations, though, you come on the forums to demand that the WHOLE game be altered to make up for your inability to beat a boss.

    If that’s not entitlement, I don’t know what is.

    Why don’t you ask, “Hey, I’m playing (x) class, can you guys help me with my rotation and build so I can beat (x) fight?”

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Doto.6357 said:
    fighting a boss.

    fighting a STORY boss. Please don't forget add this. Aslo still don't understand any tie between rotation and story.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    Personally, I prefer to die a few times to the major story bosses. Because you only get better at something when you're challenged. I don't know about you, but I overall want to get better a game that I'm playing.

    Case in point:

    When LS2 had just come out I played it as it came out. Until I got to Hidden Arcana. I rage quit at the second boss. It took me forever and a day to get him to 25% health then I made a stupid mistake and died and his health reset. I may have still been in full cleric exotics the first time. Or just fresh having moved to Zerker exotics. And don't get me started on having a rotation (still don't have one).

    Need some geodes and crests for my legendary so I'm playing the LS2 chapters as I'd rather play those multiple times than farm Dry Top and Silverwastes. I have a very low farming tolerance. I had restarted the story on my main and I got to Hidden Arcana yesterday or the day before. They've either nerfed the 2nd boss or I'm much better. I do have full ascended gear now with exception of maybe the accessories/backpiece/etc and I have Meteorlogicus. I hope it's the latter as that means I've gotten better overall at the game. Then spent 30 minutes a the final boss because it took me that long to figure out the mechanic.

    That feeling when I killed the 2nd boss was amazing. It made me feel good that I could finally beat a boss that I had trouble with before.

    This is also an MMO. If you can't beat a boss in a story alone yet, get a friend or two to join. Post an LFG. Ask in Lion's Arch for help or one of the racial cities. Ask your guild. There's nothing wrong about needing help with a story mission and asking for it. Then in a few months go back and try the mission out again solo, you might find you've improved and are able to defeat it by yourself.

    I would actually hope that as the story progresses each boss gets a little bit more difficult to defeat. Of course with the horizontal progression this will mean mechanics will come into play. Which means that unless you watch a guide, you'll likely die a few times while you figure out the mechanic and how to beat it. And that's just fine.

    Edit to add:

    I was also fine with the original difficulty of Eater of Souls. And I could not break his bar quickly. Not skilled enough for that. But I eventually killed him. I may have had to find a place to park my character or I delayed resurrecting and do some reading online to figure out how to kill him. I adjusted my build, I changed up some gear (I had my original Clerics gear in my inventory still so I could swap gear via the hero panel). I'm actually sad that they nerfed him because now I won't really know if I've gotten better since my original try.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Clearly going off rails here comparing other franchises with Guild Wars 2. As much as Candy Crush is completely different to Dark Souls, Guild Wars 2 is completely different to both of those. The original post was trying to tell us those that those that need more difficult content (in Guild Wars 2) is 5% of the total population and based it on the difference in population between Candy Crush saga and Dark Souls. The amount of players playing those two games is irrelevant to the players playing Guild Wars 2

    Edit: To satisfy @battledrone.8315
    According to the official Activision-Blizzard quarterly report, King, the developer of Candy Crash, made $526 million in Q1 2019. Sekiro (Dark Souls successor) sold 2 million copies in just 10 days, and was released at the last 10 days of the quarter (March 22, Q1 ended March 31). That's (at $60 a copy) $120 million (in 10 days), excluding the extra price of pre-orders and collector edition copies. This means Candy Crash in a Quarter made approximately x4.4 more money than Sekiro did in 10 days. Meaning, financially, difficulty is a very good thing.

    does darksouls make a new game every year? does it cost the same money and time to make it , as candy crush?
    even a disaster like anthem made over 3 mio sales

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Clearly going off rails here comparing other franchises with Guild Wars 2. As much as Candy Crush is completely different to Dark Souls, Guild Wars 2 is completely different to both of those. The original post was trying to tell us those that those that need more difficult content (in Guild Wars 2) is 5% of the total population and based it on the difference in population between Candy Crush saga and Dark Souls. The amount of players playing those two games is irrelevant to the players playing Guild Wars 2

    Edit: To satisfy @battledrone.8315
    According to the official Activision-Blizzard quarterly report, King, the developer of Candy Crash, made $526 million in Q1 2019. Sekiro (Dark Souls successor) sold 2 million copies in just 10 days, and was released at the last 10 days of the quarter (March 22, Q1 ended March 31). That's (at $60 a copy) $120 million (in 10 days), excluding the extra price of pre-orders and collector edition copies. This means Candy Crash in a Quarter made approximately x4.4 more money than Sekiro did in 10 days. Meaning, financially, difficulty is a very good thing.

    does darksouls make a new game every year? does it cost the same money and time to make it , as candy crush?
    even a disaster like anthem made over 3 mio sales

    With the exception of 2017 they do release a game every year. As for money, From Software, the developer of the Souls series, has 283 employees. King, the developer of Candy Crash type games has 4038 employees. Judging by the number of employees, King games are vastly more expensive than From Software games. It's not even funny to compare the cost of them, completely different level.

    $120 million from 283 employees (in 10 days) versus $526 million from 4038 employees (in 3 months)
    Q2 quarterly results for Activision will be released later today. I'm curious to see how Sekiro did in an entire quarter and how it will compare to King.

    For reference, NCSoft has 1769 employees plus 293 from Arenanet for a total of 2062. The company made 410786 billion korean won which is $497 million. NCSoft is more profitable than King on a per-employee basis.

    There is a belief that these casual money grabbing mobile games are cheap to make and require only a few employees. Reality is, they aren't.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Clearly going off rails here comparing other franchises with Guild Wars 2. As much as Candy Crush is completely different to Dark Souls, Guild Wars 2 is completely different to both of those. The original post was trying to tell us those that those that need more difficult content (in Guild Wars 2) is 5% of the total population and based it on the difference in population between Candy Crush saga and Dark Souls. The amount of players playing those two games is irrelevant to the players playing Guild Wars 2

    Edit: To satisfy @battledrone.8315
    According to the official Activision-Blizzard quarterly report, King, the developer of Candy Crash, made $526 million in Q1 2019. Sekiro (Dark Souls successor) sold 2 million copies in just 10 days, and was released at the last 10 days of the quarter (March 22, Q1 ended March 31). That's (at $60 a copy) $120 million (in 10 days), excluding the extra price of pre-orders and collector edition copies. This means Candy Crash in a Quarter made approximately x4.4 more money than Sekiro did in 10 days. Meaning, financially, difficulty is a very good thing.

    does darksouls make a new game every year? does it cost the same money and time to make it , as candy crush?
    even a disaster like anthem made over 3 mio sales

    With the exception of 2017 they do release a game every year. As for money, From Software, the developer of the Souls series, has 283 employees. King, the developer of Candy Crash type games has 4038 employees. Judging by the number of employees, King games are vastly more expensive than From Software games. It's not even funny to compare the cost of them, completely different level.

    $120 million from 283 employees (in 10 days) versus $526 million from 4038 employees (in 3 months)
    Q2 quarterly results for Activision will be released later today. I'm curious to see how Sekiro did in an entire quarter and how it will compare to King.

    For reference, NCSoft has 1769 employees plus 293 from Arenanet for a total of 2062. The company made 410786 billion korean won which is $497 million. NCSoft is more profitable than King on a per-employee basis.

    There is a belief that these casual money grabbing mobile games are cheap to make and require only a few employees. Reality is, they aren't.

    wow...you prolly shouldnt post with those math skills. and you shouldnt lie either. wiki says 3 games...2012,2014 and 2017
    if they HAD made one every year, it would be 120 mio for ONE YEAR..not 10 days.

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    @Seera.5916 said:
    Personally, I prefer to die a few times to the major story bosses. Because you only get better at something when you're challenged. I don't know about you, but I overall want to get better a game that I'm playing.

    I agree. Also, the story bosses are supposed to be major threads in the story, it's a bit weird if the PC can just autoattack them to death while half asleep.
    When I did that fight against Balthazar we're supposed to lose on my soulbeast, I did not have any trouble. No downstate, nothing at all. His lines didn't make much sense in that context, as my character was neither struggling nor screaming. ^^;; Of course I knew how that story had to end, but still, having to lose in that scene just felt weird.

    I think the current level of story boss difficulty is just right. I might have to think about builds and mechanics here and there, but I rarely come across anything that really seems impossible to beat.

    As a reference, in sPvP I am somewhere around high silver to low gold, so I guess I have about average skill, maybe a bit lower than average.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2019

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Clearly going off rails here comparing other franchises with Guild Wars 2. As much as Candy Crush is completely different to Dark Souls, Guild Wars 2 is completely different to both of those. The original post was trying to tell us those that those that need more difficult content (in Guild Wars 2) is 5% of the total population and based it on the difference in population between Candy Crush saga and Dark Souls. The amount of players playing those two games is irrelevant to the players playing Guild Wars 2

    Edit: To satisfy @battledrone.8315
    According to the official Activision-Blizzard quarterly report, King, the developer of Candy Crash, made $526 million in Q1 2019. Sekiro (Dark Souls successor) sold 2 million copies in just 10 days, and was released at the last 10 days of the quarter (March 22, Q1 ended March 31). That's (at $60 a copy) $120 million (in 10 days), excluding the extra price of pre-orders and collector edition copies. This means Candy Crash in a Quarter made approximately x4.4 more money than Sekiro did in 10 days. Meaning, financially, difficulty is a very good thing.

    does darksouls make a new game every year? does it cost the same money and time to make it , as candy crush?
    even a disaster like anthem made over 3 mio sales

    With the exception of 2017 they do release a game every year. As for money, From Software, the developer of the Souls series, has 283 employees. King, the developer of Candy Crash type games has 4038 employees. Judging by the number of employees, King games are vastly more expensive than From Software games. It's not even funny to compare the cost of them, completely different level.

    $120 million from 283 employees (in 10 days) versus $526 million from 4038 employees (in 3 months)
    Q2 quarterly results for Activision will be released later today. I'm curious to see how Sekiro did in an entire quarter and how it will compare to King.

    For reference, NCSoft has 1769 employees plus 293 from Arenanet for a total of 2062. The company made 410786 billion korean won which is $497 million. NCSoft is more profitable than King on a per-employee basis.

    There is a belief that these casual money grabbing mobile games are cheap to make and require only a few employees. Reality is, they aren't.

    wow...you prolly shouldnt post with those math skills. and you shouldnt lie either. wiki says 3 games...2012,2014 and 2017

    Sigh.
    Which wiki did you check?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FromSoftware

    I didn't know what kind of game Deracine was, so I guess 2017 and 2018 didn't have a "souls-like" game. Dark Souls 2 (2014), Bloodborne (2015), the expansion to Dark Souls 2 (2015), Dark Souls 3 (2016), Sekiro (2019)

    if they HAD made one every year, it would be 120 mio for ONE YEAR..not 10 days.

    Game sales aren't linear, they tend to sell more on their release quarters than the rest of the year. Still, they make great profit.

    Now imagine if 4098 developers were working on Dark Souls instead of Candy Crash...

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is just a joke and i'm thinking its time to uninstall.

  • @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @mauried.5608 said:
    Easy content is still fun.

    For you.
    For many of us it is not, to the point that it is causing us to become disengaged from this game/franchise.

    1000%

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The Icebrood Saga (so far) went 180 in terms of encounter difficulty and we are back to around personal story levels. It will be interesting to see the reactions of new players, those that start playing the game now with the Icebrood Saga, when they go back and play the previous content, the expansions and the season episodes, that have considerably harder story encounters. With the exception of the last boss in Whisper in the Dark, which has a few mechanics worth talking about, the Saga so far has been a walk in the park.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Now imagine if 4098 developers were working on Dark Souls instead of Candy Crash...

    The game would likely earn about as much as it did. But it would cost a lot more.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The Icebrood Saga (so far) went 180 in terms of encounter difficulty and we are back to around personal story levels. It will be interesting to see the reactions of new players, those that start playing the game now with the Icebrood Saga, when they go back and play the previous content, the expansions and the season episodes, that have considerably harder story encounters. With the exception of the last boss in Whisper in the Dark, which has a few mechanics worth talking about, the Saga so far has been a walk in the park.

    I don't understand this decision, I thought with PoF They learned people really didn't want it all casual, despite the whining. I wonder what the metrics are on how many people visit the PoF+LS4 maps compared to the HoT+LS3 maps..

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 17k hours, 28k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Auramancer(PvE) & Terakura/Healbreaker(WvW) aka Sea of Sorrows Silver Assaulter [SUKI]
    No need to be best, only good and kind.

  • Well they did turn this latest episode into the Ashes of Ariandel from Dark Souls 3. So you would expect it to be rather difficult.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    I don't understand this decision, I thought with PoF They learned people really didn't want it all casual, despite the whining.

    The popularity of Istan has shown that PoF problems had nothing to do with difficulty of the content, but a lot to do with how unrewarding the PoF metas were.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    What you will never be able to do is to have the same group of players change the way they're playing and the things they consider fun.

    But the game has been like this for at least 5 years. In a sense now a new group of players (where were they all this time?) is asking to make changes to the game to make it how -they- consider it fun.

    The posts like that appear every single time there's a new more-challeging boss in the storyline. And it's because there is a difficulty jump between old content and the new one. The game changed to make it more fun for a certain group of players, but that meant that the very same changes made it less fun for another group of players. And that group keeps asking to have the game changed to how it was originally. Well, the ones that still play, because some probably gave up long ago.

    Disregarding what the actual players of this game find fun.

    The players complaining about the difficulty level are as much actual GW2 players as you are.

    So it's the other way around, the game has been in one way, with a certain group of players playing it, and long after the fact, there is a desire to change the game to fit some new kind of player.

    With the caveat that the game wasn't constant throughout the whole history, and has been known to change to accomodate small number of vocal players (often with not so good results, as with HoT or recent fractals). The players that keep asking to change it are asking for the game to be changed back to how it was at one point in the history. Not to fit some new kind of player, but to fit at least some of original kind of players.

    I don't remember even a single game that succeeded by telling their players they should go and play something else instead.

    Yes exactly, why would they tell their current players to leave this game because they are gonna turn it into an idle simulator by removing all kinds of challenge and interest from the story? To satisfy some complainers on a forum?

    You keep talking as if you represent all the "actual" gw2 players, and as if your way of having fun is the only one liked by all players of this community. You don't, and it isn't.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    The posts like that appear every single time there's a new more-challeging boss in the storyline. And it's because there is a difficulty jump between old content and the new one.

    Judging by what we got so far, it appears that we will only have drops in difficulty between the old content and the Saga content.

    With the caveat that the game wasn't constant throughout the whole history

    Obviously. But the difficulty of the game has been going up constantly ever since the first release for the game. Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire both increased the difficulty by a whole lot, which begs the question when players find the next content "difficult" what have they been doing up to this time.

    You keep talking as if you represent all the "actual" gw2 players

    I represent those that are playing the current game, and have been playing it for years, experiencing the increase in challenge over them. We'll see how the game will turn out now that it has been over-simplified with the Icebrood Saga so much. Will the number of players that used to complain and now come back outweigh those that were left with the game but will leave due to the challenge drop? We'll certainly know by the end of the Icebrood Saga, or even during it, if there are changes to this new policy of making the game so yawning easy.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:
    Well they did turn this latest episode into the Ashes of Ariandel from Dark Souls 3. So you would expect it to be rather difficult.

    If i'd known that i would never have bought it.. I know for a fact if this boss stupidity doesn't change i'm done buying living story.. No more its gotten to the point i just cannot take it anymore..

    This was the exact same reason i quit GW2 when hot released.. Yet even after 4 years the devs haven't learnt.. only a small quantity of customers like insanely hard content.. So thats why they have raids so those same customers can play together in RAIDS, not story mode dungeons 99% of customers have to solo.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Think people need to try proper rotations for their class and learning to dodge visual cues. Bjora marches and related story was completely trivial in difficulty.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The story is supposed to be easy. And it is . . .

  • None of the story content is that difficult. I am definitely casual, only do PVE/ story stuff and occasional dungeons. I have rheumatoid arthritis in my hands. Yet I can solo all but the final LW2 boss, and that's because of the shades and annoying flame mechanic. Even that one I soloed last time on my ranger. If something really is that difficult, ask for help. It's an MMO. I regularly do Hearts and Minds to help people out when I see it on LFG. Even I don't like the dumbing down that is happening.

    We have the option to change skills anytime. When something isn't working, I step back, look at what skills I can change, and fix it.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:
    Well they did turn this latest episode into the Ashes of Ariandel from Dark Souls 3. So you would expect it to be rather difficult.

    If i'd known that i would never have bought it.. I know for a fact if this boss stupidity doesn't change i'm done buying living story.. No more its gotten to the point i just cannot take it anymore..

    This was the exact same reason i quit GW2 when hot released.. Yet even after 4 years the devs haven't learnt.. only a small quantity of customers like insanely hard content.. So thats why they have raids so those same customers can play together in RAIDS, not story mode dungeons 99% of customers have to solo.

    None of the story bosses are anywere close to insanely hard and if you find it so then bring 4 friends and win.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    With the caveat that the game wasn't constant throughout the whole history

    Obviously. But the difficulty of the game has been going up constantly ever since the first release for the game. Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire both increased the difficulty by a whole lot, which begs the question when players find the next content "difficult" what have they been doing up to this time.

    Complaining every single time the difficulty was increased. And hearing the very same argument you use every single time (i heard it used even during HoT launch, where the jump in difficulty was self-evident and yep people kept saying that anyone that remained in the game so far should have been ready for that level of difficulty already).
    Hint: it's likely there are the very same players that complained about Mordremoth, Soul Eater, Balthasar or Mark II Beta Exterminator fights. You do remember those threads, i hope?

    You keep talking as if you represent all the "actual" gw2 players

    I represent those that are playing the current game, and have been playing it for years, experiencing the increase in challenge over them.

    Funny how i don't think you represent me at all even though i also did play from the very beginning and also experienced the increases in difficulty.

    We'll see how the game will turn out now that it has been over-simplified with the Icebrood Saga so much. Will the number of players that used to complain and now come back outweigh those that were left with the game but will leave due to the challenge drop?

    Unlikely, but that would be actually for a multitude of other reasons. Basically, the game is already at the point where more people will be leaving it than returning unless something really major changes. Which seems quite unlikely.

    We'll certainly know by the end of the Icebrood Saga, or even during it, if there are changes to this new policy of making the game so yawning easy.

    As i said, you will not know that, because players would be leaving that game for multitude of other reasons. In fact, have been leaving the game for multitude of other reasons already.

    What we do know however is that increasing difficulty of the game, when it happened, did not cause more players to come back than were leaving. For the whole time when Anet was constantly increasing difficulty of the game, the population still kept decreasing.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • To me it seems your auto attacks and press F abilities are not sufficient to clear this content. The best solution is to get more auto attacks and press F interactions, which I would do by inviting other players to the instance. It is an online game after all.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Complaining every single time the difficulty was increased.

    And some of the most important outliers were "fixed". There were threads complaining about the difficulty of the game since August 2012, there is still that boss Giganticus Lupicus that caused many players to have fits of rage. Or threads about Young Karka when Southsun was first introduced. A lot of players adapted to the changes and stayed with the game.

    Funny how i don't think you represent me at all even though i also did play from the very beginning and also experienced the increases in difficulty.

    So the difficulty of the game kept increasing for about 6 years straight and now there is a complaint about it and for some reason Anet now, 6 years later, needs to act upon it. Telling the players that stayed with the game for 6 years to go find another game because now they want to do an 180 and reverse everything they've done since October 2012, with their first content release that DID have more challenging content than what is found in core tyria, is a really stupid move.

    Unlikely, but that would be actually for a multitude of other reasons. Basically, the game is already at the point where more people will be leaving it than returning unless something really major changes. Which seems quite unlikely.

    There is already a major change, a massive reduction in the overall difficulty of the content and total scrapping of anything of a higher challenge level. We'll see how it affects the game going forward.

    In fact, have been leaving the game for multitude of other reasons already.

    Those players that left due to the increasing difficulty of the last 6 years should be coming back now that the game is back to kindergarten level difficulty. Otherwise the entire move makes no sense.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Those players that left due to the increasing difficulty of the last 6 years should be coming back now that the game is back to kindergarten level difficulty. Otherwise the entire move makes no sense.

    :+1:

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Complaining every single time the difficulty was increased.

    And some of the most important outliers were "fixed".

    While many weren't. And for every case that got fixed, Anet introduced several new fights at increased difficulty.

    There were threads complaining about the difficulty of the game since August 2012, there is still that boss Giganticus Lupicus that caused many players to have fits of rage. Or threads about Young Karka when Southsun was first introduced.

    Indeed. So, as you can see, the complains, unlike you try to present them, the complains are nothing new.

    A lot of players adapted to the changes and stayed with the game.

    That doesn't mean they liked those changes, though.

    Funny how i don't think you represent me at all even though i also did play from the very beginning and also experienced the increases in difficulty.

    So the difficulty of the game kept increasing for about 6 years straight and now there is a complaint about it and for some reason Anet now, 6 years later, needs to act upon it.

    As you have already acknowledged, it s not "now". Rather, the complains simply never stopped and were present since the very early part of the game. So, again, do not try to misrepresent them as something that just happened now, out of the blue, and is something no old player would agree with.

    Telling the players that stayed with the game for 6 years to go find another game because now they want to do an 180 and reverse everything they've done since October 2012, with their first content release that DID have more challenging content than what is found in core tyria, is a really stupid move.

    Or perhaps it was the transition towards the more challenging content that was a bad move, and it is well past time to wise up.

    Sure, i agree, that doing it after 6 years is way late. It should have been done years ago. But, making a bad decision at some point in the past and ignoring it for a long time doesn't mean we should give up on fixing it eventually.

    Unlikely, but that would be actually for a multitude of other reasons. Basically, the game is already at the point where more people will be leaving it than returning unless something really major changes. Which seems quite unlikely.

    There is already a major change, a massive reduction in the overall difficulty of the content and total scrapping of anything of a higher challenge level. We'll see how it affects the game going forward.

    In fact, have been leaving the game for multitude of other reasons already.

    Those players that left due to the increasing difficulty of the last 6 years should be coming back now that the game is back to kindergarten level difficulty. Otherwise the entire move makes no sense.

    I don't think it's about players returning to the game anymore. It's now more about the speed at which the players will be leaving. And, frankly, the minority interested in the more challenging content is leaving anyway, as they finally realized that Anet was never capable of releasing content for them at a rate they'd find satisfying.

    So, ask yourself - is it indeed a stupid move to try to retain at least one part of your community, instead of losing both groups?

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.