[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers)

[Nidome.1365]

The fight they really need to overhaul is the one in PoF where Balthazar actually does kill you. The first time through is fine, but when you repeating it with other characters it is just frustrating knowing that you have to get Balthazar to a certain health point before he will kill you and you are fighting in a decreasing area with lots of aoe spamming all over the place. You just want to get it over with so you can get onto the next chapter but it just drags on and on. It is so depressing it almost makes you want to stop playing.

[SlateSloan.3654]

i think the new design with alot red cirlces etc is a result of people asking for more difficult content with more boss mechanics to not just 111111 through the content. im ok with that. i prefer to play the story in a group anyways. at least gw is a mmo. i think there should be way more incentive to be in a guild anyways. we are „guildwars“ not „lonewolfwars“. if a story got an achievement to reach and i feel like the other group members disturb me more than helping me to reach it i replay the story afterwards alone to make the achievement.

what i rather see as critical atm is the new way of optical design the new content brought in in terms of massive flashing and blinking lights. some inside the design team seem to have played alot nintendo games in their youth. initially we only had one fractal with that kind of super mario blinking ground but now there are several of those and it gets more and more.

i wish the content gets back to be optical designed more realistic like it was in gw1 instead of flashing cartoon style.

[Illurim.6059]

@Cerioth.7062 said:

@Illurim.6059 said:From the comments, it seems like there's two types of people - those who just want to enjoy the story, relax, have fun, unwind, listen to the funny one liners and be carried along by it. That's me. Story is story and it should be interesting and engaging and fun. There's plenty of OTHER places in the game to create difficulty and challenge for those seeking it.

Then there's those types that seem to derive some kind of self-worth/validation from being able to tell everyone how easy it is for them and by extension how sub-par people who find it challenging are. There's no discussion available with those people, really, because they won't admit, and can't see, that other people don't actually care about being challenged in a game, because it's a game. Some of us don't sit there and go OH YEAH I BEAT THAT BOSS I'M THE BEST I ROCK. We just beat it and go 'ooooh look at that cool ceiling, that's really well done'. People who derive validation from 'beating' something in a game can't comprehend how un-relatable that is to someone who just cares about the story being interesting and fun. They can't understand why when someone says to me "The scruff fight is easy, I beat it in one go" that I literally laugh and think to myself "is that your major accomplishment for today?". Some of us are so busy with our actual lives and getting mean from them, the validation we all crave, that when we sit down at a game like GW2 and run the STORY to RELAX and UNWIND we just want to enjoy it.

So, realistically, nothing will come of this discussion because those who don't care for challenge in story won't be able to get those who derive their validation from challenge to understand our point of view, much less agree with it or think it's valid to have. ANet seems to agree with those folks, so for now, it's crappy, over-mechaniccy 'raid'-like story, which is boring and not worth the short time some of us have to play. I'd rather spend an hour in WvW than sit alone in a story instance dying to unnecessary mechanics just so I can keep up with the main story of the game.

The sad thing, the story quality (portrayl, dialogue, pacing) suffers tremendously in the current environment. ANet have a wonderful story arc and I'm very interested in it, but the story instances are so off kilter in pacing/energy/quality/detail that it feels like the story meeting went like "what's our arc this season? yeah good idea, let's do that. Ok what are the details? nah kitten detials, let's just make every fight super hard so we don't have to worry, they won't even realise there's no actual story and just an idea".

The only part of the story I remember well is my conversation with Caithe when I was investigating the bloodstone fen explosion (from LS3). The dialogue was great, the writing and the way the scene was put together, the pacing of the dialogue in the final fight and the joke on timing, were fantastic. Memorable. Beautifully done. What do I remember from LS4? No dialogue. No good writing. Nothing beautiful to speak of. It's just boring and annoying and so I'm literally waiting until it's nerfed before I even bother with it, because it's so poorly presented it feels like it was done by a completely different team.

Sorry but I have to respond to this. You just generalized the people in two categories - which, first of all - is very narrowminded and not constructive.

You are looking at a guy who is compassionate and enthustiastic about the story and lore. I find the story instances relaxing. I get thrilled and fully into playing the story , whether it is me listening to a dialogue and immersing myself to the wonderful voice acting or me beating up a bad guy and empathizing with the Commander. I do not find the boss fights too hard or boring. Some of the fights are not super easy either - pre-nerf Eater of Souls, the Warbeast and Mordremoth being good examples. However, I dont think the Scruffy fight was anywhere near the difficulty of those encounters. Of course different players might perceive what is difficult in many ways. I think the flashy effects and big telegraphs freak out people more and make it seem harder than it truly is. The encounters dont feel long to me either but this could be because I'm running a raid set up.I dont find that I'm doing the story to stroke my ego or boast with my vicotires. I frankly dont care how well or badly I perform at it, I just want to enjoy the content - and I do. I am sorry some of you people dont feel the same way and that you struggle. But the story is absolutely doable by everyone and it does not require any major changes.

Now hang on a second. I did not generalise. I provided context "From the comments, it seems". That's not a unilateral generalisation in any way, it's contextual from the thread. You don't have to agree with it, and that's okay, but you can't claim I generalised when the very thing you quoted had context.

I completely agree with your other comments and I'm glad you provided them. Now there's additional commentary from a person fitting neither category I described from reading the comments.

[Faaris.8013]

@TheUndefined.1720 said:I know the automatic response from the forum goers will be "get better," sure, I'm willing to do that, I've tried doing that, but ANet keeps making their story bosses more and more difficult. This isn't fun anymore. Please chill out on the difficulty of the story bosses.

Sorry to say this, but yeah: get better. You have this issue for a long time already (HoT), while others do just fine. Others did get better, and don't want easier bosses. It's difficult to balance, an AI that determines your skill level and adjusts the difficulty would be cool. Rewards could be different then. Even without AI, it's easy to check if a player has, let's say, the title for fractal 100cm, and then give him a harder boss. The problem seems to be creating different difficulty tiers for the same encounter.

I do have an issue with them adding bosses that are much harder for specific classes than for others though. I breeze through the content with my Power Daredevil, but I had major issues fighting the beast at the end of the PoF story. I know I don't suck, so I believe that it was because of my squishy, power based class and not lack of skill. After several deaths, I did it without having to use a repair canister, but I'm pretty sure that this fight would have been much less hard had I switched to my Condition Reaper. I don't have condi gear on my thief, didn't expect to need it in the story. I think every damage dealing class should have a similar difficulty at a boss in the story. Don't expect me to switch characters to play the story...

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

I one shot everything, the last fight was annoying and tedious but I only died because of a glider malfunction.

My main is a Power Reaper.

[AliamRationem.5172]

I liked the Warden boss the best. The mechanics really kept me on my toes! I beat her on my mirage in about a minute and a half, which didn't feel too long to me.

Scruffy was just annoying. Having to go and get those static things over and over made it artificially long and boring. I'm not a big fan of these gimmick fights. I'll take bosses like the Warden over Scruffy any day.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Maybe better make boss fights more of cutscenes where you watch your character do it in a cinimatic like zhaitan i think thats better for a majority donnt want challenge they want easy story (that would cause no arguing like this on forum you cant complain about a boss being too hard without a boss) just my thoughts after reading this post

[Ashen.2907]

@Illurim.6059 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

"I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?

My argument is not at all inconsistent. The only argument that I have made is that a story which is specifically about challenge should be, by definition, in order to deliver the effect of that story, challenging.

At no point did I say that I was not challenged or that the fight was not difficult. If there is an impediment to discussion here it originates with the willingness of some posters, such as yourself, to delve into falsehood and fabrication in order to further an agenda. I also said nothing about first go, nor no deaths. You might want to consider the qualifier, "particularly," as I used, and which you quoted. The phrase does not mean that I did not find the fight to completely lack challenge. It means, by definition, that I did not find the fight to have a higher than normal level of challenge. Particularly was included for a reason.

There is no inconsistency in my logic. At no point have I argued for anything other than the idea that representing a story about a challenge requires some degree of challenge. If someone complained about the inclusion of tragic elements in a tragedy or the inclusion of humor in a comedy I would respond much the same as I have here.

[Nemmar.8491]

I completely disagree. The bosses were alot of fun.Some people expect everything to fall over at their presence. That is boring. These bosses are some of the most exhilarating bosses I have seen. Amazing new takes on telegraphs and movement during fights.

Honestly the complaining is unwarranted. Once you have tried it once, all of the encounters become trivial. So, this is perfectly balanced.

[Dashiva.6149]

Lesson 16. Be more afraid of boring the user than challenging them.

If I was guaranteed to faceroll everything without effort on my part it would be quite boring, I like a game that is able to punch back at times. The only issue I had with ol' Scruffy was that the healthpool was to large, thus dragging out the fight and repeating the mechanics to boredom (If I got lazy though, I was punished which is correct).

[Vyrulisse.1246]

They need to stop overloading bosses with insane effects that blind you and grind your PC to a halt unless you have a computer from space, that's the main thing they need to do.

[Turin.6921]

I cannot take a post that defines story challenge as "too difficult" seriously. The alternative would be to have all the battle like the one with Koss that was completely unsatisfying and boring and not fitting a character like Koss. If you make them easier then they would be completely meaningless.

The fights in LS4.1 are NOT that difficult. They are actually quite easier than the PoF fights. But the Scruffy fight is really annoying at times and that does not have to do with difficulty. It has to do with the encounter not giving enough hints on how to beat it. Especially in the last part with the weapons discharge. That is problematic design but has to do with the encounter not preparing the player sufficiently on its mechanics and the mechanics are not giving you enough time to figure them out before killing you. And you can even see that with the PoF story sometimes. The first time that you do the beast and not know what to do its a nightmare. The second time you do that fight you kill the thing with one hand behind your back.

And that you do not solve with lowering HP and removing mechanics. That would just make the fight boring. You solve it by communicating things to the player a bit more clearly. The difficultly is great. The first time the story fights are consistently fun. They just have to iron out a few details.

[Neutra.6857]

I found the fight with scruffy to be pretty easy, the only hard part was figuring out how to deal with the orbs. I went in as a full magis druid though, which meant almost no damage from myself (I buffed my pet repeatedly to get it to do damage). That meant that I never died, but the fight took forever (no surprise there). Because I weant in with full magi's druid the health poll felt rather big and the fight was tedious, but I am sure this would feel different on a more damage oriented build. The companions where useless. I repeatedly say Braham standing around doing nothing because after an invul stage he had never been hit or after he recovered from no health he had never been hit.

[Soulentra.7180]

@Chickenooble.5014 said:2) Take some instant repair canisters with you. When you die so much that your armor is broken then you're not very effective. Repair before getting back into the fight.

In this specifique Taimi suffocating fight u actually have a repair place at entrance, so no need to bring those.

---

In general I think some boss fights in story can be pain, but I rly like the challenge, it's not rly hard if u just make some functional build (make sure to have at least one weapon with a cc attack), learn to evade (I have evade bound to middleclick on mouse, rly easy to use).

Personally I love doing solo content (don't ask me why I play mmorpg, I like having people around me, but I prefer having option to solo play when not in mood to find compatible players to do stuff together) and I'm glad that story gives me some solo bosses that are somehow challenging.

Maybe Arena net could give us option to play trought all stories on "Easy", "Normal" and "Hardcore" mode? So people who don't care about their gear and build at all could go with easy mode (and get less rewards)? And ppl who want some challenge and better rewards they would go on Normal/Hardcore mode?

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Soulentra.7180 said:

@Chickenooble.5014 said:2) Take some instant repair canisters with you. When you die so much that your armor is broken then you're not very effective. Repair before getting back into the fight.

In this specifique Taimi suffocating fight u actually have a repair place at entrance, so no need to bring those.

---

In general I think some

boss fights

in story can be pain, but I rly like the challenge, it's not rly hard if u just make some functional build (make sure to have at least one weapon with a cc attack), learn to evade (I have evade bound to middleclick on mouse, rly easy to use).

Personally I love doing

solo content

(don't ask me why I play mmorpg, I like having people around me, but I prefer having option to solo play when not in mood to find compatible players to do stuff together) and I'm glad that story gives me some solo bosses that are somehow challenging.

Maybe Arena net could give us option to play trought all stories on "Easy", "Normal" and "Hardcore" mode? So people who don't care about their gear and build at all could go with easy mode (and get less rewards)? And ppl who want some challenge and better rewards they would go on Normal/Hardcore mode?

Anet cant reward more for hard mode for then people will complain about that

[Soulentra.7180]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Anet cant reward more for hard mode for then people will complain about that

Why not? In HoT story u have special Achievement - rewards for doing the last part with Challenger mote on.I rly want it for my collection, but still didn't do it, cause I don't have time/patience/friends to do it with.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Soulentra.7180 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Anet cant reward more for hard mode for then people will complain about that

Why not? In HoT story u have special Achievement - rewards for doing the last part with Challenger mote on.I rly want it for my collection, but still didn't do it, cause I don't have time/patience/friends to do it with.

For there will always be people complaining if its too hard anet should just make boss fights easier so noone gets upset ore angry over difficulty i did not find scruffy that hard ore tedius

[Odokuro.5049]

I'll be honest, once I understood what to do, and what to avoid and how, it wasn't anything besides time involvement at that moment. Besides you didn't need to stay on the platform with Scruffy you could go hang out on the steps below the platform and wait it out, dealing with the sparks by tossing the orbs onto them was a cinch once I found out where they where.

But I will agree on the uselessness of the NPCs in general, they would pause before they started to attempt to revive you (That's if they did attempt.) and they all seem to be unaware of the fight going on and tend to just stand their either idle or glued to you and do little to nothing besides add dialogue here and there.

Ohh and Braham needs to get that stick out of his, you know, or I'm going to drop kick him in the teeth.

[Rap Tiger.1257]

Difficult? Oh really? I did not die once, only for the boss who has a sickle almost in the penultimate chapter and still do not die for being difficult, but because I had lag, if you're having trouble killing a boss like that, do me a favor, never go PVP , learn to play PVE and to do mode story with level as it is now of the boss.

Another thing learn to play with your class, I can kill some champions boss alone, so this is not difficult to kill the story since they are easier ..

[kharmin.7683]

IMO a "personal" story should not _require _LFG assistance. It should be something that can be done solo.

[flog.3485]

I mostly play solo, stay in open world and yet had no problem to complete the story. Like I had no problem to complete Eater of Souls before the nerf.

I really don't get all these threads saying that it is too hard. The mechanics that you find in the personal story are the same mechanics that you find in open world content, which are basic aoes and knockbacks to evade.

[flog.3485]

@kharmin.7683 said:IMO a "personal" story should not _require _LFG assistance. It should be something that can be done solo.

That is the thing though. Many people claim here that it can be done solo.

Anyway the personal story will never be truly personal because you can always invite people to join your party. And if you couldn't, much would be saying that it is a shame that you can't play with friends/people in personal story.

[Healix.5819]

If ArenaNet wanted to, they could simply give you permanent boons at the start and call it story mode. An actual modifier would be better however, like -75% damage taken, +50% damage dealt. They could even take a risk and try to profit off of it, by, for example, selling overpowered heroes that can only be used in story instances.

ArenaNet has never been about easy content however, so I'm not sure if they care about losing players to the difficulty wall, unlike back in 2012 when they heavily nerfed the core game. What they do offer to make the content easier is grouping, which in most cases trivialize it. The problem with that however, is that most people don't want to group, especially for the story. The other option is playing one of the easier professions, necro being the most casual overall.

[Cerioth.7062]

@flog.3485 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:IMO a "personal" story should not _require _LFG assistance. It should be something that can be done solo.

That is the thing though. Many people claim here that it can be done solo.

Anyway the personal story will never be truly personal because you can always invite people to join your party. And if you couldn't, much would be saying that it is a shame that you can't play with friends/people in personal story.

If you want, I can record it solo.

[Einlanzer.1627]

IMO, this has been a problem for a long time.