EDIT: ANET staff publicly representing company should be held to their own standards - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

EDIT: ANET staff publicly representing company should be held to their own standards

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Comments

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    I’m on team Jessica.

    That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”

    ...

    Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?

    That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?

    The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.

    I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.

    So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.

    In other words, you're off topic.

    This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.

    And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?

    We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
    Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.

    No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?

    She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
    Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.

    Ya ppl post it here I’m going to comment.

    That is your right.

    Did Jessica break any twitter rules? Nope, but the morality police needs to act off some moral high ground and attack her on the official forums and reddit because they don’t agree with her.

    If anybody has an issue with what happened then keep it on Twitter where it belongs.

    This logic.. impossible to argue against. You're the master of discourse.

    Honestly astounded that you could turn the entire topic on its head and accuse the community pointing out misbehaviour as misbehaving the same way.

    Closing your eyes and ignoring it is your right as much as any other, but "keep it where it belongs"? Are you the sole arbiter of what goes where? And it's obviously related to GW2 & story, so talking about the people behind it makes logical sense too.

    Keep this kitten on Twitter where it belongs... Unless, of course, we should post all of our social media accounts so the community can talk morality on the official gw2 forums...

    Had this kitten been started here we can handle it here, but it didn’t. Get it?

    It was a discussion about Guild Wars 2, made by an employee working on Guild Wars 2 responding to a content creator for Guild Wars 2.

    Yea, I can see how that has no place here on the Guild Wars 2 forum. Absolutely agree it's totally off topic for here!

    Personally attacking a dev on the official forums is a no no. Or do you not understand that?

    Denouncing toxic and harmful behavior is not now, nor has it ever been, a personal attack. It is exceptionally reasonable that an ArenaNet employee attacking a Guild Wars 2 content creator during a Guild Wars 2 discussion should warrant some level of conversation on the Guild Wars 2 official forums, especially considering another ArenaNet employee supported the attack.

    There is no better place for this conversation.

    @Gaile Gray.6029 will disagree with you and shut down this thread asap.

    Wanna bet 10k gold thread gets shut down?

    I'm way too broke to even bet 1k gold, but I kinda wish I could considering it's currently being moderated and hateful posts are being deleted in real time.

  • Jethro.9376Jethro.9376 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @rrusse.7058 said:

    @Jethro.9376 said:
    Another one of those loud minorty uproars, when something doesn't go a certain way...

    What are you getting at exactly?

    I just took a quick look at reddit/twitter, so i don't know the whole story in detail. But i'm refering to the "sexism and patriarchy" kitten.
    What has the one thing to do with the other?

    By "a certain way" i mean, "how does a guy dare to criticise my work".

  • rrusse.7058rrusse.7058 Member ✭✭

    @Dreadshow.9320
    Well I don't know if it has to go so far as to reach share holders. I imagine this is going to affect the company as a whole on how social media is handled for sure though. On the idea of an apology, I don't know. Do people even want one now?

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Etheri.5406 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    I’m on team Jessica.

    That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”

    ...

    Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?

    That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?

    The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.

    I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.

    So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.

    In other words, you're off topic.

    This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.

    And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?

    We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
    Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.

    No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?

    She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
    Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.

    Ya ppl post it here I’m going to comment.

    That is your right.

    Did Jessica break any twitter rules? Nope, but the morality police needs to act off some moral high ground and attack her on the official forums and reddit because they don’t agree with her.

    If anybody has an issue with what happened then keep it on Twitter where it belongs.

    This logic.. impossible to argue against. You're the master of discourse.

    Honestly astounded that you could turn the entire topic on its head and accuse the community pointing out misbehaviour as misbehaving the same way.

    Closing your eyes and ignoring it is your right as much as any other, but "keep it where it belongs"? Are you the sole arbiter of what goes where? And it's obviously related to GW2 & story, so talking about the people behind it makes logical sense too.

    Keep this kitten on Twitter where it belongs... Unless, of course, we should post all of our social media accounts so the community can talk morality on the official gw2 forums...

    Had this kitten been started here we can handle it here, but it didn’t. Get it?

    It was a discussion about Guild Wars 2, made by an employee working on Guild Wars 2 responding to a content creator for Guild Wars 2.

    Yea, I can see how that has no place here on the Guild Wars 2 forum. Absolutely agree it's totally off topic for here!

    Personally attacking a dev on the official forums is a no no. Or do you not understand that?

    Take your hypocritical arguments and morality meters to Twitter.

    Healthy discussions on the official forums are also a no no. Or do you not understand that?

    If you want player feedback, better ask for it elsewhere. Most WvW servers have a forum more active than the official forums, and that's a dead gamemode. :trollface:

    Heavy moderation does not promote healthy discussion. I agree this might not be the place for it; but putting your fingers in your ears and yelling lalalala doesn't make genuine concerns magically disappear. Not even if you believe hard enough. Not even if you ban everyone who disagrees. I'm suprised these threads haven't been purged already.

    On topic : What anet devs do in their spare time is their business; not ours. But what anet devs say publically and related to the game on PUBLIC social media will obviously draw responses from the players. And if discussions ensue, both sides should remain civil or plain not respond.

    If any anet rep really needs some toxicity towards the players, feel free to whisper me. I'll happily apply my elitist expertise and bash players left right and center. Any medium works and special requests can be taken into account; as long as it's not roleplay.

    None of this is a healthy discussion... It’s called mob justice and an attack on an arenanet employee on the official forums.

    You call for sides to be “civil”, but that went out the door upon thread creation.

  • artemis.6781artemis.6781 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zalavaaris.5329 said:
    Honestly even if the criticism was sexist... you never... let me repeat that... NEVER treat any customer like that. Even when rude... you just cant do that

    The penguins were right... "Smile and wave"

  • Rysdude.3824Rysdude.3824 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This just isn’t that serious. Relax people the sky isn’t falling.

  • Etheri.5406Etheri.5406 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Etheri.5406 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    I’m on team Jessica.

    That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”

    ...

    Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?

    That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?

    The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.

    I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.

    So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.

    In other words, you're off topic.

    This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.

    And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?

    We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
    Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.

    No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?

    She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
    Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.

    Ya ppl post it here I’m going to comment.

    That is your right.

    Did Jessica break any twitter rules? Nope, but the morality police needs to act off some moral high ground and attack her on the official forums and reddit because they don’t agree with her.

    If anybody has an issue with what happened then keep it on Twitter where it belongs.

    This logic.. impossible to argue against. You're the master of discourse.

    Honestly astounded that you could turn the entire topic on its head and accuse the community pointing out misbehaviour as misbehaving the same way.

    Closing your eyes and ignoring it is your right as much as any other, but "keep it where it belongs"? Are you the sole arbiter of what goes where? And it's obviously related to GW2 & story, so talking about the people behind it makes logical sense too.

    Keep this kitten on Twitter where it belongs... Unless, of course, we should post all of our social media accounts so the community can talk morality on the official gw2 forums...

    Had this kitten been started here we can handle it here, but it didn’t. Get it?

    It was a discussion about Guild Wars 2, made by an employee working on Guild Wars 2 responding to a content creator for Guild Wars 2.

    Yea, I can see how that has no place here on the Guild Wars 2 forum. Absolutely agree it's totally off topic for here!

    Personally attacking a dev on the official forums is a no no. Or do you not understand that?

    Take your hypocritical arguments and morality meters to Twitter.

    Healthy discussions on the official forums are also a no no. Or do you not understand that?

    If you want player feedback, better ask for it elsewhere. Most WvW servers have a forum more active than the official forums, and that's a dead gamemode. :trollface:

    Heavy moderation does not promote healthy discussion. I agree this might not be the place for it; but putting your fingers in your ears and yelling lalalala doesn't make genuine concerns magically disappear. Not even if you believe hard enough. Not even if you ban everyone who disagrees. I'm suprised these threads haven't been purged already.

    On topic : What anet devs do in their spare time is their business; not ours. But what anet devs say publically and related to the game on PUBLIC social media will obviously draw responses from the players. And if discussions ensue, both sides should remain civil or plain not respond.

    If any anet rep really needs some toxicity towards the players, feel free to whisper me. I'll happily apply my elitist expertise and bash players left right and center. Any medium works and special requests can be taken into account; as long as it's not roleplay.

    None of this is a healthy discussion... It’s called mob justice and an attack on an arenanet employee on the official forums.

    You call for sides to be “civil”, but that went out the door upon thread creation.

    Fair, but I call for ability to discuss. We've censored so much that healthy discussions will never really take place here; most players shun the place as they rightfully should. So what I'm stating is both sides SHOULD be respectful of eachothers opinions and NOT censor / moderate the hell out of it because one side was "not sensitive enough for my liking".

    Which applies to BOTH ends. At the end of the day, obviously anet decides what to do. But many players are not lynching, merely stating that they do in fact not agree with what was said on twitter. And frankly I can't hold that against them.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The only thing I came about is the forum getting filled with inane spam threads. Its a game, not an kitten forum.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Etheri.5406 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Etheri.5406 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    I’m on team Jessica.

    That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”

    ...

    Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?

    That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?

    The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.

    I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.

    So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.

    In other words, you're off topic.

    This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.

    And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?

    We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
    Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.

    No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?

    She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
    Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.

    Ya ppl post it here I’m going to comment.

    That is your right.

    Did Jessica break any twitter rules? Nope, but the morality police needs to act off some moral high ground and attack her on the official forums and reddit because they don’t agree with her.

    If anybody has an issue with what happened then keep it on Twitter where it belongs.

    This logic.. impossible to argue against. You're the master of discourse.

    Honestly astounded that you could turn the entire topic on its head and accuse the community pointing out misbehaviour as misbehaving the same way.

    Closing your eyes and ignoring it is your right as much as any other, but "keep it where it belongs"? Are you the sole arbiter of what goes where? And it's obviously related to GW2 & story, so talking about the people behind it makes logical sense too.

    Keep this kitten on Twitter where it belongs... Unless, of course, we should post all of our social media accounts so the community can talk morality on the official gw2 forums...

    Had this kitten been started here we can handle it here, but it didn’t. Get it?

    It was a discussion about Guild Wars 2, made by an employee working on Guild Wars 2 responding to a content creator for Guild Wars 2.

    Yea, I can see how that has no place here on the Guild Wars 2 forum. Absolutely agree it's totally off topic for here!

    Personally attacking a dev on the official forums is a no no. Or do you not understand that?

    Take your hypocritical arguments and morality meters to Twitter.

    Healthy discussions on the official forums are also a no no. Or do you not understand that?

    If you want player feedback, better ask for it elsewhere. Most WvW servers have a forum more active than the official forums, and that's a dead gamemode. :trollface:

    Heavy moderation does not promote healthy discussion. I agree this might not be the place for it; but putting your fingers in your ears and yelling lalalala doesn't make genuine concerns magically disappear. Not even if you believe hard enough. Not even if you ban everyone who disagrees. I'm suprised these threads haven't been purged already.

    On topic : What anet devs do in their spare time is their business; not ours. But what anet devs say publically and related to the game on PUBLIC social media will obviously draw responses from the players. And if discussions ensue, both sides should remain civil or plain not respond.

    If any anet rep really needs some toxicity towards the players, feel free to whisper me. I'll happily apply my elitist expertise and bash players left right and center. Any medium works and special requests can be taken into account; as long as it's not roleplay.

    None of this is a healthy discussion... It’s called mob justice and an attack on an arenanet employee on the official forums.

    You call for sides to be “civil”, but that went out the door upon thread creation.

    Fair, but I call for ability to discuss. We've censored so much that healthy discussions will never really take place here; most players shun the place as they rightfully should. So what I'm stating is both sides SHOULD be respectful of eachothers opinions and NOT censor / moderate the hell out of it because one side was "not sensitive enough for my liking".

    Which applies to BOTH ends. At the end of the day, obviously anet decides what to do. But many players are not lynching, merely stating that they do in fact not agree with what was said on twitter. And frankly I can't hold that against them.

    Nothing good will come out of this thread. It will only bring out a whole lot of unnecessary arguments that don’t belong here. The forum rules were created for a reason, and attacking a dev on the official forums is not something Anet allows, regardless of who is right or wrong.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Etheri.5406 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Etheri.5406 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    I’m on team Jessica.

    That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”

    ...

    Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?

    That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?

    The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.

    I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.

    So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.

    In other words, you're off topic.

    This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.

    And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?

    We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
    Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.

    No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?

    She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
    Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.

    Ya ppl post it here I’m going to comment.

    That is your right.

    Did Jessica break any twitter rules? Nope, but the morality police needs to act off some moral high ground and attack her on the official forums and reddit because they don’t agree with her.

    If anybody has an issue with what happened then keep it on Twitter where it belongs.

    This logic.. impossible to argue against. You're the master of discourse.

    Honestly astounded that you could turn the entire topic on its head and accuse the community pointing out misbehaviour as misbehaving the same way.

    Closing your eyes and ignoring it is your right as much as any other, but "keep it where it belongs"? Are you the sole arbiter of what goes where? And it's obviously related to GW2 & story, so talking about the people behind it makes logical sense too.

    Keep this kitten on Twitter where it belongs... Unless, of course, we should post all of our social media accounts so the community can talk morality on the official gw2 forums...

    Had this kitten been started here we can handle it here, but it didn’t. Get it?

    It was a discussion about Guild Wars 2, made by an employee working on Guild Wars 2 responding to a content creator for Guild Wars 2.

    Yea, I can see how that has no place here on the Guild Wars 2 forum. Absolutely agree it's totally off topic for here!

    Personally attacking a dev on the official forums is a no no. Or do you not understand that?

    Take your hypocritical arguments and morality meters to Twitter.

    Healthy discussions on the official forums are also a no no. Or do you not understand that?

    If you want player feedback, better ask for it elsewhere. Most WvW servers have a forum more active than the official forums, and that's a dead gamemode. :trollface:

    Heavy moderation does not promote healthy discussion. I agree this might not be the place for it; but putting your fingers in your ears and yelling lalalala doesn't make genuine concerns magically disappear. Not even if you believe hard enough. Not even if you ban everyone who disagrees. I'm suprised these threads haven't been purged already.

    On topic : What anet devs do in their spare time is their business; not ours. But what anet devs say publically and related to the game on PUBLIC social media will obviously draw responses from the players. And if discussions ensue, both sides should remain civil or plain not respond.

    If any anet rep really needs some toxicity towards the players, feel free to whisper me. I'll happily apply my elitist expertise and bash players left right and center. Any medium works and special requests can be taken into account; as long as it's not roleplay.

    None of this is a healthy discussion... It’s called mob justice and an attack on an arenanet employee on the official forums.

    You call for sides to be “civil”, but that went out the door upon thread creation.

    Fair, but I call for ability to discuss. We've censored so much that healthy discussions will never really take place here; most players shun the place as they rightfully should. So what I'm stating is both sides SHOULD be respectful of eachothers opinions and NOT censor / moderate the hell out of it because one side was "not sensitive enough for my liking".

    Which applies to BOTH ends. At the end of the day, obviously anet decides what to do. But many players are not lynching, merely stating that they do in fact not agree with what was said on twitter. And frankly I can't hold that against them.

    The forum rules were created for a reason, and attacking a dev on the official forums is not something Anet allows, regardless of who is right or wrong.

    Agreed, and since most of the users here are not attacking her, we can continue to allow the moderators to do the great work they have been by deleting the attacks that do pop up, while we continue to have a calm and rational conversation about the results of two Anet employees negative and toxic actions towards well known Guild Wars 2 content creators.

    Glad we're on the same page!

    No, sorry, we are not “on the same page”. This thread is getting trashed for obvious reasons. It is neither civil nor constructive, and definitely not the way to address the issue.

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Zalavaaris.5329 said:
    Honestly even if the criticism was sexist... you never... let me repeat that... NEVER treat any customer like that. Even when rude... you just cant do that

    Maybe, but I'm not sure I agree. The real crux of the issue is that an Anet employee started an interesting and sensible discussion, received an equally interesting and sensible response from a well known content creator/customer, and called that customer names/publicly shamed them for "sexism" for daring to make a reply. And then was supported by a second Anet employee.

    Someone actually being attacked and responding in kind is likely to garner support and a lot of "justice served" type posts supporting her, even if it is technically not the right reaction. This isn't the case here, though, and that multiple employees were involved is what's so disturbing.

    I would add that when someone is being publicly shamed for "sexism" on twitter to ten of thousands of followers, the risk for death threats and physical injury is high and very real. Its a major risk to the health of the gw2 community if this became accepted behavior for developers.

    This is a very good point, and definitely a reason why I hope that Arenanet doesn't just gloss this over and move on. But I still don't agree that it would warrant personal attacks against the perpetrator; discussion like this about the negative consequences of their actions is a much more constructive use of our time. It's important for Anet to understand just how their customers, and public in general, feel about the sort of image they are putting out there with this sort of thing.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Etheri.5406 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    I’m on team Jessica.

    That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”

    ...

    Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?

    That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?

    The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.

    I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.

    So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.

    In other words, you're off topic.

    This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.

    And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?

    We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
    Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.

    No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?

    She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
    Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.

    Ya ppl post it here I’m going to comment.

    That is your right.

    Did Jessica break any twitter rules? Nope, but the morality police needs to act off some moral high ground and attack her on the official forums and reddit because they don’t agree with her.

    If anybody has an issue with what happened then keep it on Twitter where it belongs.

    This logic.. impossible to argue against. You're the master of discourse.

    Honestly astounded that you could turn the entire topic on its head and accuse the community pointing out misbehaviour as misbehaving the same way.

    Closing your eyes and ignoring it is your right as much as any other, but "keep it where it belongs"? Are you the sole arbiter of what goes where? And it's obviously related to GW2 & story, so talking about the people behind it makes logical sense too.

    Keep this kitten on Twitter where it belongs... Unless, of course, we should post all of our social media accounts so the community can talk morality on the official gw2 forums...

    Had this kitten been started here we can handle it here, but it didn’t. Get it?

    It was a discussion about Guild Wars 2, made by an employee working on Guild Wars 2 responding to a content creator for Guild Wars 2.

    Yea, I can see how that has no place here on the Guild Wars 2 forum. Absolutely agree it's totally off topic for here!

    Personally attacking a dev on the official forums is a no no. Or do you not understand that?

    Take your hypocritical arguments and morality meters to Twitter.

    Healthy discussions on the official forums are also a no no. Or do you not understand that?

    If you want player feedback, better ask for it elsewhere. Most WvW servers have a forum more active than the official forums, and that's a dead gamemode. :trollface:

    Heavy moderation does not promote healthy discussion. I agree this might not be the place for it; but putting your fingers in your ears and yelling lalalala doesn't make genuine concerns magically disappear. Not even if you believe hard enough. Not even if you ban everyone who disagrees. I'm suprised these threads haven't been purged already.

    On topic : What anet devs do in their spare time is their business; not ours. But what anet devs say publically and related to the game on PUBLIC social media will obviously draw responses from the players. And if discussions ensue, both sides should remain civil or plain not respond.

    If any anet rep really needs some toxicity towards the players, feel free to whisper me. I'll happily apply my elitist expertise and bash players left right and center. Any medium works and special requests can be taken into account; as long as it's not roleplay.

    None of this is a healthy discussion... It’s called mob justice and an attack on an arenanet employee on the official forums.

    You call for sides to be “civil”, but that went out the door upon thread creation.

    I really don't want to respond anymore to your obvious attempts to derail the thread, but my intention while creating this thread was to create a place where a civil discussion between players, and if the devs want to speak out about this, devs as well, can express how they feel about this PR issue for ANET. Offering criticism about something that happened on a public forum is not a personal attack.

    I am merely requesting that ANET staff abide by the same rules of conduct we players have to. From the official Guild Ward 2 Rules of Conduct: You may not select an Account ID, Account Display Name, ArenaNet Message Board ID, Character ID and/or Team designation, or provide any communication or information on any Message Board, that ArenaNet, in its reasonable discretion, deems to be vulgar, threatening, racist, sexist or otherwise offensive, including but not limited to references related to any religion or deity;

    No, you intentionally create a thread that was designed to attack an arenanet employee... Don’t play games, it’s obviously transparent what your intentions were and are...

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/the-forums-code-of-conduct/

    “Personal Attacks / Harassment / Naming and Shaming

    -insults, verbal attacks, or ridicule directed towards ArenaNet, ArenaNet employees, or ArenaNet teams”

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gorden.5483 said:
    Transgender Octopus with Downsyndrome and only one tentacle

    lol I agree with everything that you said, but that's very oddly specific =D

  • Gorden.5483Gorden.5483 Member ✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Gorden.5483 said:
    Transgender Octopus with Downsyndrome and only one tentacle

    lol I agree with everything that you said, but that's very oddly specific =D

    Yeah, very funny to picture in your head and gets the message across. It also happens to incorporate all sorts of things you can be intolerant towards (transgender or any gender for that matter, being of another species or race, having a disability that entails mental incapabilities and a physical disability). Ofc you can always incorporate more, but I just chose this one, it seemed fitting :smiley:

  • Alga.6498Alga.6498 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Alga.6498 said:

    @Gorden.5483 said:

    @Alga.6498 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Alga.6498 said:

    @artemis.6781 said:

    @Alga.6498 said:
    Jessica literally playing the feninism card and its disgusting as hell. What a kitten idiot!
    I am getting so upset with her response and behaviour!
    She even twits and says "Dude, we've STILL got people outraged that I'm not interested in talking to them on my personal twitter on a federal holiday? Go to a BBQ or something."

    Its like she's taking this like a joke!! kitten!?
    If other employees of ANet as Peter Fries does about "we dont want your feedback", then I am done playing this game, if all of the devs are shitheads like Jessica and Peter are! :rage:
    I really hope ANet reviews her, if they dont; they just grave themselves a grave if the whole Company supports Jessica Price.

    And here you are, calling her names. The moral high road isn't very high for you.

    So she's allowed to call anyone else names but not me? What a genius you are, my friend.
    You go join the down road, that will suit you.

    To be fair, you really shouldn't, no. She, being a professional for a company making personal attacks against the users of the company, should deal with consequences for those actions. But that does not mean that the appropriate reaction is to make personal attacks against her. This thread is for a discussion about her actions as well as the results of those actions and their effect on the views of the game's players.

    Fair ?? She deserves being called-out, if you two are okay for what's she's doing, then its up to you. I personally do not support that kind of behaviour and it's disgusting the way she handles it.
    So dont tell me what to and not to do. If you support her, then be "fair". I wont.

    Calling somebody out doesn't require you to lose all politeness. You can call somebody out without resorting to insults and keep being polite.
    Insults just show you have nothing else to say, so if you have nothing else to say, then say nothing else.

    Here’s a bit of insight that I legitimately hope you reflects on: I never asked for your feedback

    Alga, while many of us here including myself are definitely outraged by the dev's behavior, we should not criticize HER but rather her actions. Thank you for understanding :).

    EDIT: I do find the reference amusing though ;)

    Fixed :)

    | Separatist | Nightmare Court | Inquest | White Mantle | Sunspears | Loyalists | Ascalon | Kryta | Ebonhawke | Elona | Istan | Kourna | Vabbi | Cantha | Luxon | Kurzick | 71 characters | "Rally to me, Ascalonians!" "Keep Ascalon in your heart." "May the Gods protect you." "Be blessed by the Six."

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Etheri.5406 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    I’m on team Jessica.

    That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”

    ...

    Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?

    That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?

    The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.

    I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.

    So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.

    In other words, you're off topic.

    This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.

    And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?

    We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
    Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.

    No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?

    She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
    Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.

    Ya ppl post it here I’m going to comment.

    That is your right.

    Did Jessica break any twitter rules? Nope, but the morality police needs to act off some moral high ground and attack her on the official forums and reddit because they don’t agree with her.

    If anybody has an issue with what happened then keep it on Twitter where it belongs.

    This logic.. impossible to argue against. You're the master of discourse.

    Honestly astounded that you could turn the entire topic on its head and accuse the community pointing out misbehaviour as misbehaving the same way.

    Closing your eyes and ignoring it is your right as much as any other, but "keep it where it belongs"? Are you the sole arbiter of what goes where? And it's obviously related to GW2 & story, so talking about the people behind it makes logical sense too.

    Keep this kitten on Twitter where it belongs... Unless, of course, we should post all of our social media accounts so the community can talk morality on the official gw2 forums...

    Had this kitten been started here we can handle it here, but it didn’t. Get it?

    It was a discussion about Guild Wars 2, made by an employee working on Guild Wars 2 responding to a content creator for Guild Wars 2.

    Yea, I can see how that has no place here on the Guild Wars 2 forum. Absolutely agree it's totally off topic for here!

    Personally attacking a dev on the official forums is a no no. Or do you not understand that?

    Take your hypocritical arguments and morality meters to Twitter.

    Healthy discussions on the official forums are also a no no. Or do you not understand that?

    If you want player feedback, better ask for it elsewhere. Most WvW servers have a forum more active than the official forums, and that's a dead gamemode. :trollface:

    Heavy moderation does not promote healthy discussion. I agree this might not be the place for it; but putting your fingers in your ears and yelling lalalala doesn't make genuine concerns magically disappear. Not even if you believe hard enough. Not even if you ban everyone who disagrees. I'm suprised these threads haven't been purged already.

    On topic : What anet devs do in their spare time is their business; not ours. But what anet devs say publically and related to the game on PUBLIC social media will obviously draw responses from the players. And if discussions ensue, both sides should remain civil or plain not respond.

    If any anet rep really needs some toxicity towards the players, feel free to whisper me. I'll happily apply my elitist expertise and bash players left right and center. Any medium works and special requests can be taken into account; as long as it's not roleplay.

    None of this is a healthy discussion... It’s called mob justice and an attack on an arenanet employee on the official forums.

    You call for sides to be “civil”, but that went out the door upon thread creation.

    I really don't want to respond anymore to your obvious attempts to derail the thread, but my intention while creating this thread was to create a place where a civil discussion between players, and if the devs want to speak out about this, devs as well, can express how they feel about this PR issue for ANET. Offering criticism about something that happened on a public forum is not a personal attack.

    I am merely requesting that ANET staff abide by the same rules of conduct we players have to. From the official Guild Ward 2 Rules of Conduct: You may not select an Account ID, Account Display Name, ArenaNet Message Board ID, Character ID and/or Team designation, or provide any communication or information on any Message Board, that ArenaNet, in its reasonable discretion, deems to be vulgar, threatening, racist, sexist or otherwise offensive, including but not limited to references related to any religion or deity;

    No, you intentionally create a thread that was designed to attack an arenanet employee... Don’t play games, it’s obviously transparent what your intentions were and are...

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/the-forums-code-of-conduct/

    “Personal Attacks / Harassment / Naming and Shaming

    -insults, verbal attacks, or ridicule directed towards ArenaNet, ArenaNet employees, or ArenaNet teams”

    If how you are interpreting that was the case, any criticism about the game or any comment that may be critical of ANET or a dev would automatically be forbidden. Criticism of public actions is not the same as a personal attack. Note that I haven't even named the dev by name here, but was focusing on the fact that these actions were taken by a dev - which is crucial to why this is such a big deal. Now please stop derailing the thread, thanks!

    You are publicly calling out, attempting to shame and further harass an arenanet employee on their official forums. That is against the clearly stated rules. You can try to spin your way out of it, but your intentions are clear...

    I find it silly you keep taking about “staying on topic” in an attempt to salvage this thread, but it’s not going to happen.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just feel the need to weigh in my own 2 cents.

    1. Female game devs get a lot more hate than male devs. That's just a fact of life
    2. Her discussion on the narrative path taken for gw2 is extremely insightful and has made me respect the gw2 dev team even more. They've done a very good job of it in my opinion
    3. A dude comes on and remarks that the narrative path taken only makes sense in the context of living world and that it's a failing of the living world format itself and not on the MMO genre as a whole. I think this remark can be taken in a number of ways and the creator could have formed the argument with more nuance but didn't.
    4. The dev's ultimate response is one of immediate defense, as is probably natural of anyone in her position. I don't know how it is for female game devs on a personal note, but like I mentioned in point 1, it's just a fact that they get a lot of hate and respond appropriately when they find hate on their doorstep. I think this is the point where JP had over reacted, but I can see how the remark could have been seen as disingenuous and why she would have taken that approach. I've personally seen people pose 'genuine' questions and when answered with civility and understanding, become condescending, angry, and hateful at any responses made, and if JP had perceived the remark as such, it would go a long way to explaining the jump in attitude.
    5. It IS her personal twitter, her personal account, that she tagged as being part of the narrative team at ArenaNet. Arguments have gone either way of whether she has the right to respond that way on her personal twitter, or not because she has directly tagged herself as representing the company. I don't know where I fall on this spectrum but it is a point that needs consideration.
    6. For the record, I feel the response is unjustified, even if there are reasons that can easily explain the reaction. I may not be a female game dev, but I've been on the receiving end of online hatred for just being who I am, and there does come a point where enough is enough and you develop a 'take no prisoners' attitude, so I sympathise with her probable reasoning for the response. But again, it doesn't justify it and I don't condone it.
    7. There has been another case of a similar reactive response. The previously linked twitter discussion with Inks. I've read through the whole thing multiple times to try and understand where the discussion may have taken a turn, and I do believe that JP had misinterpreted Inks response. I had too, initially, when I first read it, and she responded to the misinterpretation of Inks response to the guy claiming it was sexism. She may have already been offset by Inks first response that questioned the intent of the criticism, which Inks seemingly didn't have the context of (since it was on the forums but she brought her frustration to twitter), which led to her misinterpreting Inks response. That, or her seeming unwillingness to continually have to justify her actions and attitude when she's bombarded by hate on all sides as a female game dev. Either way, there's only so much brain power that can be spared to read a comment thoroughly when you're on the receiving end of so much hatred so things can be misunderstood. Again, I sympathise and would have reacted similarly in her shoes, because I've certainly been there, but it doesn't justify her response and wouldn't justify my response had I been in her shoes.
    8. Inevitably, there's only so much insight we can gain from just reading the twitter feeds. Without direct word from JP, we won't be able to fully understand the scenario. I've done my best with the information that's available to see what's going on, but only JP can speak about her intentions. I do believe Inks at least pointed out where he was coming from, I don't know if the other creator from the main discussion of this thread has explained his attitude.

    There's a lot that happens behind closed doors that we're not privy to. While I do believe bringing a measure of understanding to the discussion can remove a lot of the toxicity surrounding this, we also can't mince words and have to point out that the response was unjustified for it's severity.

    TL;DR: She reacted as any human being would to a response that was interpreted as the hatred she probably gets on a daily basis (as female game devs get far more online hatred than male game devs). However, I do believe her interpretations were off the mark. While I sympathise with her response, I won't justify it and don't condone it. But we do have to bring a measure of understanding and compassion to the table, especially in cases where it's known for a fact that someone can get a disproportionate amount of online hate.

    If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. Veterans can make signatures apparently.

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭

    To me it sounds like a boundaries issue. Its ok to be a jerk on social media, as long as you keep it private and not bring in a 3rd party, your employer. Then you just put yourself in a bad position.
    But ultimately in the end you have remember, her job puts food on the table, and is we all make mistakes at times.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Tolmos.8395 said:
    I have to disagree here. If the poster she responded to had made any sort of negative remark towards her, in any way, shape or form, it would certainly have been an understandable reaction. But they literally just said "I slightly disagree", followed by an explanation of what points they contend in her discussion and what their feelings on those points were. Her reaction was to immediately imply the user was sexist, to a ton of followers, and then follow up that post with further accusations of hurt man-feelings, etc etc.

    I mean, I can't think of many human beings that would react that way in the same situation.

    Like I said in the rest of the TL:DR that you didn't quote, I do believe her interpretation was off. I also go on to explain it more in the points dedicated to that part as well:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    3. A dude comes on and remarks that the narrative path taken only makes sense in the context of living world and that it's a failing of the living world format itself and not on the MMO genre as a whole. I think this remark can be taken in a number of ways and the creator could have formed the argument with more nuance but didn't.
    4. The dev's ultimate response is one of immediate defense, as is probably natural of anyone in her position. I don't know how it is for female game devs on a personal note, but like I mentioned in point 1, it's just a fact that they get a lot of hate and respond appropriately when they find hate on their doorstep. I think this is the point where JP had over reacted, but I can see how the remark could have been seen as disingenuous and why she would have taken that approach. I've personally seen people pose 'genuine' questions and when answered with civility and understanding, become condescending, angry, and hateful at any responses made, and if JP had perceived the remark as such, it would go a long way to explaining the jump in attitude.

    Again, I don't justify her response. I don't condone her response. But I do understand where she made the error.

    EDIT (this is copied from my edit to the response to this post below, just to make the point clearer for anyone reading this): I want to further clarify, just to make my point clear.

    The error that I mean is entirely about her interpretations of the response. She made an error when she believed that the two disagreements were filled with hostile intent.

    Her response to that error is unjustified. I do not condone it and would not reduce such a harsh and unjustified reaction as simply an 'error'. The only 'error' is her interpretations. Her response cannot be justified by any means, nor reduced to simply an 'error'.

    If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. Veterans can make signatures apparently.

  • rrusse.7058rrusse.7058 Member ✭✭

    @castlemanic.3198
    I think that is quite insightful. I think too many are quick to jump the gun and demonize one party or the other. There likely is a reason why she responded the way she did, and one none of us may never know or experience. As you said though her actions and response to her perceived attack is reprehensible and has no place here. She shouldn't be attack any members of the community or staff on any of the platforms she uses and the same applies to any of us as well.

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:
    I have to disagree here. If the poster she responded to had made any sort of negative remark towards her, in any way, shape or form, it would certainly have been an understandable reaction. But they literally just said "I slightly disagree", followed by an explanation of what points they contend in her discussion and what their feelings on those points were. Her reaction was to immediately imply the user was sexist, to a ton of followers, and then follow up that post with further accusations of hurt man-feelings, etc etc.

    I mean, I can't think of many human beings that would react that way in the same situation.

    Like I said in the rest of the TL:DR that you didn't quote, I do believe her interpretation was off. I also go on to explain it more in the points dedicated to that part as well:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    3. A dude comes on and remarks that the narrative path taken only makes sense in the context of living world and that it's a failing of the living world format itself and not on the MMO genre as a whole. I think this remark can be taken in a number of ways and the creator could have formed the argument with more nuance but didn't.
    4. The dev's ultimate response is one of immediate defense, as is probably natural of anyone in her position. I don't know how it is for female game devs on a personal note, but like I mentioned in point 1, it's just a fact that they get a lot of hate and respond appropriately when they find hate on their doorstep. I think this is the point where JP had over reacted, but I can see how the remark could have been seen as disingenuous and why she would have taken that approach. I've personally seen people pose 'genuine' questions and when answered with civility and understanding, become condescending, angry, and hateful at any responses made, and if JP had perceived the remark as such, it would go a long way to explaining the jump in attitude.

    Again, I don't justify her response. I don't condone her response. But I do understand where she made the error.

    I still don't agree. An error would be her saying "No, you're wrong. Sit there in your wrongness and be wrong", not "Hey everyone, look at the sexist man-pig that dared to speak to me! Get 'em!"

    @rrusse.7058 said:
    @castlemanic.3198
    I think that is quite insightful. I think too many are quick to jump the gun and demonize one party or the other. There likely is a reason why she responded the way she did, and one none of us may never know or experience. As you said though her actions and response to her perceived attack is reprehensible and has no place here. She shouldn't be attack any members of the community or staff on any of the platforms she uses and the same applies to any of us as well.

    I can definitely agree with that. While I can't imagine a scenario where her reaction was equivalent to the response she reacted to, the overall point makes sense.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Tolmos.8395 said:
    I still don't agree. An error would be her saying "No, you're wrong. Sit there in your wrongness and be wrong", not "Hey everyone, look at the sexist man-pig that dared to speak to me! Get 'em!"

    By error, I meant her interpretation of the remarks. I do not mean the response she made.

    EDIT: I want to further clarify, just to make my point clear.

    The error that I mean is entirely about her interpretations of the response. She made an error when she believed that the two disagreements were filled with hostile intent.

    Her response to that error is unjustified. I do not condone it and would not reduce such a harsh and unjustified reaction as simply an 'error'. The only 'error' is her interpretations. Her response cannot be justified by any means, nor reduced to simply an 'error'.

    If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. Veterans can make signatures apparently.

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    Expert gives super interesting exposition with insightful content. -> Great
    Someone from the public adds a perfectly valid counterpoint. -> Good
    Expert react as if being attacked, adding an unrelated factor through just one word. -> Whatever
    Community explodes into screams, slaps and rage wedgies. -> What the kitten is wrong with you people?

  • rrusse.7058rrusse.7058 Member ✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    After all, the game is lacking in quality lately (Kourna was horrible gameplay-wise and ending the story abruptly by abusing a deus ex machina isn't all that great either) and ANet doesn't produce the impression that they actually care (not a single question of importance was answered in the latest AMA).

    I dunno, previous episodes in Season 3 were not amazing either. I know I enjoyed 'A Crack in the Ice' even though so many in the community and on reddit say they felt that was the weakest of all episodes. We don't even know the total head count of devs that specifically worked on this last episode do we? If not then I don't know if it's that fair to say the quality and effort is bad. I don't know how many people they had at their disposal, how much time they had, how much money and so on.

    Does the game need improvement? Sure, you're never at your best so you might as well try to improve. Has the quality dipped so low that its with dinosaur bones? I don't think we've hit that point and hope we never do.

    The most important thing is that we let Arenanet know that we just don't appreciate this sort of behavior. Regardless of stress and whether or not you are on holiday, treating anyone like this is not acceptable.

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ardid.7203 said:
    Someone from the public adds a perfectly valid counterpoint. -> Good
    Expert react as if being attacked, adding an unrelated factor through just one word. -> Whatever

    The below poster did a great job of expressing why this is such a problem

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Zalavaaris.5329 said:
    Honestly even if the criticism was sexist... you never... let me repeat that... NEVER treat any customer like that. Even when rude... you just cant do that

    Maybe, but I'm not sure I agree. The real crux of the issue is that an Anet employee started an interesting and sensible discussion, received an equally interesting and sensible response from a well known content creator/customer, and called that customer names/publicly shamed them for "sexism" for daring to make a reply. And then was supported by a second Anet employee.

    Someone actually being attacked and responding in kind is likely to garner support and a lot of "justice served" type posts supporting her, even if it is technically not the right reaction. This isn't the case here, though, and that multiple employees were involved is what's so disturbing.

    I would add that when someone is being publicly shamed for "sexism" on twitter to ten of thousands of followers, the risk for death threats and physical injury is high and very real. Its a major risk to the health of the gw2 community if this became accepted behavior for developers.

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    Wanna bet 10k gold thread gets shut down?

    Clever, seeing as they will then shut it down for gambling...

  • Memoranda.9386Memoranda.9386 Member ✭✭✭

    There is a distinct lack of compassion from a dedicated group of individuals looking to keep pushing this narrative around.

    JP reacted badly, clearly. Everyone understands that.

    What should have happened is not what is happening, in that now 3 topics on these forums, as well a few related topics are currently kicking around the forums, not to mention Reddit and Twitter.

    She's being dragged relentlessly throughout all of social media, which I'm sure in her mind, is going to justify her initial reaction and comments of sexism and, is currently proving her point.

    Not that anyone seems to have an interest in letting this go, which again, is only helping to prove her point from her view of the situation.

    The comments should have been addressed to ArenaNet directly and left at that. Everything else smacks of manufactured outrage to issue "justice" for her verbal slights.

This discussion has been closed.
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