why does a-net hate elementalists exactly ? is it smt from gw1?

I'm just curious. My most played class is warrior but it was ruined way back in the day as HoT was released because they reworked quickness because anet's devs listened to the casual population that was complaining about warrior's dash and whirlwind being shorter with quickness (which was actually good) so anet decided to make it so that quickness doesn't affect movement (and that's literally 80% of warrior's hits/skills) so i went playing my elementalist mostly (which was actually the class i first wanted to play but ended up with warrior because armors look cool) which i had already played somewhati ended up playing a lot of ele that despite quitting it ever since pof came out (even before that,, plus i also played ranger and thief and guard at some points in time as mains) it's still my 2nd most played class (almost tied as warrior) but i can't play it cause its garbage

weaver is garbage, tempest is garbage, core ele is garbage. I want to play staff ele cus mages and staff and stuff and i also have a lot of experience on staff but it's garbage. Water 2 is slow as hell and unrewarding , the dmg is so bad for a skill as slow as this. Why does soulbeast hit for 20k with F3 (merged with pet) but ele hits for 3k dmg with a 3 sec cast skill? Earth 2 is garbage, insanely slow and the dmg is low as hell. Fire 2 is garbage , wasnt that even nerfed? lol what and why? The dmg is too low (compared to before) and the range is too low. Air 2 is garbage, meteor casts too slow and is too unreliable and is only rarely ever good. Ele has no way of clearing condis without going for water and that already means you're locked to using 1 of your specs, you need arcane cus protection is a must have in this day and age cus of how broken other classes are and there you have it 2nd locked option and then 3rd option is your elite and both of them suck anywaywhenever i see an ele without water he's just free kill cus i know he's gonna run out of condi removal in 2 skill uses, whenever i see an ele without arcane he's just free kill cus he has no protection and boons in general, whenever i see a fresh air ele after 3 sec of stalling for his invulnerability on focus he's just dead cus he has nothing else. The class is a joke. THe dmg is so low, the condi applications are so low, the range of all non-staff skills is hilariously bad, wtf is up with dagger /sword range? and with the weaver pulse condition spam thing the range is so low its just laughable

did arena net end up hating ele from guild wars 1 or why exactly has this class always been bad? there was a time where D/d ele was considered meta but even back then i always thought its garbage and sure some people "did okay" but the flaws were so obvious and so apparent and the impact it had was low and bad. Since launch every other class has had its time to shine, literally every other class has been the #1 top dog at some point but i dont think ele ever has and unless they do something drastic i dont think it ever will be

there was a single high rated ele in this season and he was doing "okay "in 1v1 but still losing to actual team fight focused builds that also outperformed it in team fights so wtf is the point if you can't even be better than your enemy at your main focus while its their alt focus? i dont understand why does every other class do 14 times more damage than ele while also having better other tools and access to stealth for half of them? the other day i log my necro (i dont play necro) and i made the reaper meta build went to arena and i hit some guy for 10k dmg with f2 on shroud i was like wtf is happening here and then i realized reaper does 14 times more dmg than it did in the past and for some reason thats okay? You can literally hit people for 10k dmg in 0,5 sec as reaper which is faster than ele does its dagger auto attack which is some laughable 300 range skill that does no damage and puts no conditions and has no impact and is a joke lol. 80% of ele skills cant be used to people walking behind/besides you like the class literally has nothing going for it and the only time ele was "somewhat okay" was during aura mancer buff bot times but i dont think being forced to support (and still not even being that good at it) makes you viable or fun to play. The concept of "elemental mage" exists in every single fantasy and they're focused around destruction with fire and stuff but in its best times it was a scuffed support, lol

at least arena net employees actually read their forum unlike most devs but its been so many years and i believe people have complained about this at in the past (altho they shouldn't take everything people say for granted cus they tend to be clueless way too often)

edit: oh yeah the concept of weaver is also complete garbage. Imagine being on fire and wanting to swap to earth to use magnetic aura but you can't use magnetic aura cause you swap to earth and your 3-4-5 are blocked, like seriously lmao who even thought that would be a good idea..? not to mention all the weaver skills are suffering from the same issues as the non-weaver skills, slow with low range or radius and bad damage for the most part and extremely unreliable

its unlikely its due to hate, so that leaves 2 options:

1. The balance team are actually so misinformed or unable to do objective analyse that they cant see the problems, and they are not listening to the community.
2. The balance team think dmg meter performance on a raid boss/pve lump of meat means the class is ok.

Its bloody bizarre since class playability underpins long term commitment and its such a clear cut problem with many quick fixes available (e.g give ele 5k extra hp)

It infuriates me and has definitely put a damper on my regular gem purchases as I am an Ele only player.

@incisorr.9502 said:

Imagine being on fire and wanting to swap to earth to use magnetic aura but you can't use magnetic aura cause you swap to earth and your 3-4-5 are blocked, like seriously lmao who even thought that would be a good idea..?

Use Unravel?

@Airdive.2613 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:

Imagine being on fire and wanting to swap to earth to use magnetic aura but you can't use magnetic aura cause you swap to earth and your 3-4-5 are blocked, like seriously lmao who even thought that would be a good idea..?

make unravel a free F5 action with lower cooldown then

wasting your super precious utility slot on unravel when you already have so many issues...

@"incisorr.9502" said:

did arena net end up hating ele from guild wars 1 or why exactly has this class always been bad? there was a time where D/d ele was considered meta but even back then i always thought its garbage and sure some people "did okay" but the flaws were so obvious and so apparent and the impact it had was low and bad. Since launch every other class has had its time to shine, literally every other class has been the #1 top dog at some point but i dont think ele ever has and unless they do something drastic i dont think it ever will be

Ok, what? D/D cele ele back in its heyday reigned supreme for several months and was arguably the most faceroll build the game has ever seen. With the exception of boon corruption necros, this build was completely unbeatable in 1v1 and could take on 1v2s. Even that Sw/W & LB celestial warrior build took over a minute to push a cele ele off point and in a duel could do absolutely nothing to stop the ele's disengage.

Not gonna contest your arguments about the state ele is in now, but don't misrepresent how broken D/D cele ele was at the time.

If I had to guess, Ele is next on the priority list for a rework. Whether that be a successful rework or not is HEAVILY depended on our input. I've been wanting to make an Ele alt, but never did because of the effort/profit ratio being so low.

they absolutely ruined staff ele for spvp (it was already considered bad in spvp)but because it was apparently good in wvw or raids it received colossal damage nerfs to its main fire damage skills in ALL GAME MODES.

so i'm with you, as a pvper who used to love playing an underdog spec, in a world of OP meta madness.when i see that underdog spec being severely nerfed i can come to no other conclusion except the devs hate it.

Talking strictly pvp, in GW1 eles were awesome, so it's nothing that comes from those times.I don't think it's hate, it's more like they don't have a clue how to resolve eles issues.

it's also great that anet decides to repeatedly nerf ele when it's already the weakest class since pof came out a year ago. Not just staff/dmg from pve/wvw too, it's spvp specific such as riptide, earthen vortex, no shooting backwards on shearing edge & natural frenzy (2 of the already bad skills on sword), fa scepter skills/traits (while somehow know to keep holosmith's spvp nerf separate from wvw because it's less useful there).

and this thread will get moved to the ele spam subforum

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@"incisorr.9502" said:

did arena net end up hating ele from guild wars 1 or why exactly has this class always been bad? there was a time where D/d ele was considered meta but even back then i always thought its garbage and sure some people "did okay" but the flaws were so obvious and so apparent and the impact it had was low and bad. Since launch every other class has had its time to shine, literally every other class has been the #1 top dog at some point but i dont think ele ever has and unless they do something drastic i dont think it ever will be

I never understood the arguments on this one... I never, ever, struggled against a celestial or cleric Elementalist... I always saved my CC though for things like Water Overloading.

@sephiroth.4217 said:I always saved my CC though for things like Water Overloading.There was no Water Overload in the cancerous cesspit of a meta that was the old Cele meta where you had 2 D/D eles or more per team every game.

@Aktium.9506 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:I always saved my CC though for things like Water Overloading.There was no Water Overload in the cancerous cesspit of a meta that was the old Cele meta where you had 2 D/D eles or more per team every game.

Before HoT my struggles were Petting Zoo's, Turret Engies and HambowsI don't even remember Ele ever being an issue before HoT... I was probably in WvW during the time it reigned supreme I guess

OK let's keep this simple:

• Ele has always been awesome even back in GW1 it was great. Now talking about GW2, Ele has historically been a power house support for much longer than even the Guardian. In fact, Cele Core Ele D/D was the only spec that ever received it's own category listed above the meta, and that nonsense went on for YEARS before anything was done about it. Then Tempest showed up and reigned in the new support role all the way up until Firebrand arrived. Honestly, only since PoF arrived has Ele really experienced what it feels like to be a bit underpowered. Some other classes like Warrior or Necro have gone through ridiculously long durations of time being allowed to be underpowered. I don't see any hate for Ele here, it's just finally experiencing a phase of not being a top 3 meta, whereas something like Holo is currently experiencing a good phase.
• Why is Ele balanced in the way that it is right now? Well it's not hate from some pvp team, it's just game wide balancing that is coming from the priority of pve balancing. And it seems that the pvp side of things has a difficult time putting priority on pvp issues over pve issues. <- That is seriously all that it is. There is no Ele hate ^^

Six years later and people still expect Anet to be able to balance a class that has access to 2x the skills of others properly.

they did too much dmg in gw1 so now you paynah but lol eles have always been stronk

@Aktium.9506 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:I always saved my CC though for things like Water Overloading.There was no Water Overload in the cancerous cesspit of a meta that was the old Cele meta where you had 2 D/D eles or more per team every game.back in those days when damage was relegated to 2.5 classes (necro is that .5)

Cele dd ele was only good because of self might stacking capability (which required actual investment instead of nowadays 1 button 10 might) and because celestial was perfectly tailored for ele's design, pure hybrid class by nature in terms of both offense and defense.With today widespread boon denial, boon uptime, cc spam, condi application and cleanse accessibility, even old cele dd ele wouldn't stand a chance against a noob [insert any espec].Might has been nerfed, so as celestial amulet, might on cantrips, might on sigils, and finaly ele's core skills and traits.It's not that Anet hates eles. It's just that ele's abilities have declined without compensation while other classes got their arsenal increased while being easier to apprehend.

Few More years of non meta and id say then Buff it, still paying from those pre hot d/d days.

If you want to play staff ele: go wvw there he is strong.

Understand that you can't be same effective on all weapons, traits and klasses on all gamemodes

They all have his usages, on each mode with some playstiles.

Ofc its bad/ unbalanced if you want to do nothing for being good at all things you want to do the way you do....

And btw welcome to a competition mode. You have to do something to be better than others ;)

Because of its design ele can't have proper sustain without becoming a bunker. But since hybrid ele is hated by Anet because of the celestial ele, they'll never make it good.

So we're left with full bunker/support, but guess what, that's not allowed to be good either because PoF has Firebrand for the same role and the new expansion's gotta sell.

If you think Anet hates ele, then maybe you should play other classes and other game modes.

Ele over the course of the game has probably been the best damage dealer in PvE, in WvW is has always been at least decent and often meta (and that was normally with a staff), even in PvP it is only really since Weaver and for a few months prior to cele that it has been pretty naff.

Meanwhile there are classes that were bottom-of-the-barrel for far longer or even the entire game's life in some cases e.g - ranger in WvW (large scale obviously).

Basically if you play ele, guard, mesmer or warrior in this game you are in no position to complain about being neglected by Anet.

@Sylosi.6503 said:If you think Anet hates ele, then maybe you should play other classes and other game modes.

Ele over the course of the game has probably been the best damage dealer in PvE, in WvW is has always been at least decent and often meta (and that was normally with a staff), even in PvP it is only really Weaver and for a few months prior to cele that it has been pretty naff.

Meanwhile there are classes that were bottom-of-the-barrel for far longer or even the entire game's life in some cases e.g - ranger in WvW (large scale obviously).

Basically if you play ele, guard, mesmer or warrior in this game you are in no position to complain about being neglected by Anet.

ANet is probably balancing ele on your assumptions!It has never been about ability to do high damage but ratio damage/sustain. Ele ratio is probably the lowest of all.Warrior might do less damage than ele (and that might be debatable), they naturally have twice the sustain of ele.

It might not be an important issue in a team. But it is a critical issue when no ally is around.

@"Substance E.4852" said:Six years later and people still expect Anet to be able to balance a class that has access to 2x the skills of others properly.

it doesn't really have 2x skills of other classes thomes has f1-4 with 2x weps and mirage cloaks, scourge has f1-5 with 2x weps and in general ele has the least passive procs so it isn't really that many skills

Problem with ele is that all the skills do too little compared to other class skills. If i do a proper mesmer combo i get 18+confusion stacks, 15+ torment stacks, a few burn stacks ,15+ bleed stacks on top of doing damage with 2k power with all those skills cus of the amulet im using cus its not purely condi but hybrid dmg and i can cast all those skills in less than 3 seconds combined when im used to my class and if the enemy doesn't react he'll get 30k dmg in that time (probably, since i oneshot necros who cant heal react which i can also interrupt with f3) and with ele what are you gonna do for 3 secs that does damage (besides FA which is a gimmicky build) ? You can't even fully cast the dagger's dragon breath lmao which is a joke - some super low range clown skill that makes you stay there channeling a low range, low hitbox , low damage skill with low condi applications.

"Arguably " Spvp is the mode that matters most because in spvp you're being put in the spotlight and to the test and you're aiming to kill people before they kill you. In pve it doesn't matter and in wvw you can hide in the zerg, i went to wvw to get an armor box with my ranger that didnt even have accessories and i stood in middle of 20 people shooting my bow and despite doing /2 damage i was still surviving anyway and it didn't really matter.

Ele skills = cast too slow, have too little dmg and too small hitboxes. It's like a relic from the past at this point. I remember playing ele in gw2 beta (even have screens on my pc) and back then they had higher dmg and it was fun cus meteor had so much impact that it was nerfed before even release as far as i remember. What they need to do is nerf all physical damage in gw2 while also nerfing protection boon at the same time so that they nerf the dependency of protection which is a general thing but right now the way protection works is stupid - you can't really even make builds without protection that are viable unless you have full iframes with stealth/disengage(mes-thief and even they suffer from no protection, like a lot). 33% damage reduction on a single boon is way too much and ele has too much access to protection and at the same time it needs it too much because its a "face-tank/melee" If they nerfed dmg by say 15-20% and nerfed protection by 13% (so that it ends up being 20%) you'd still have similar dmg on people with protection but people without protection will get better and then there will be more viable builds cus you won't be forced to take X or Y.Then they need to give ele better condi removal thats outside of water, something like mesmer's cleanse mantra or guard's multiple smite condi procs because ele is gonna be taking a lot of condis for the reasons stated about (face-tank/melee with zero detargets or stealths to reduce incoming pressure and no shroud like necro to be beefier).And then they need to increase ele's hitboxes, damage, cast speed on their skills and maybe even rework some of their skills cus they are so bad . Im not even sure how d/d was ever meta when all the dagger skills are so cringy and unreliable. Oh and add unravel as a free F5 action with lower cd than the current utility skill cause it makes no sense for you to lose access to 3-4-5 in a game that requires quick skill usage, especially considering 3-4-5 are defensive options on staff and on focus (2 out of the available weps). Btw i played around that time and i never had issues with d/d eles

ele should be more focused around doing elemental dmg rather than being some tank imo and that's the main way it gets to see play cus it makes no sense, why does a robe class get such a high protection uptime and the tempest can even get protection up to 40% reduction instead 33 when it's literaly a robe/light armor class , on top of all the healing and low range skills and even a sword? backwards logic lol. Warrior has absolutely no access to protection (outside of sb's counter which is a new addition) as a heavy armor class

Albeit i do agree weaver needs some buffing from the balance team, people are quick to forget how relevant ele was for almost the first 4 years of gw2. D/D ele was just filthy and of course the ele as a support class was a monster for a fairly long while.

Before this thread gets thrown into the echo chamber:

Just because ele was good once doesn't mean it's ok for it to be bad now. It's been mediocre way back since most of the support amulets were removed, and before that, eles desperately wanted to be semi good at something other than support/tanking. They would be lucky now if their only concern was having only one playable option that was only support... now they pretty much have nothing going for them.

@sephiroth.4217 said:I was probably in WvW during the time it reigned supreme I guessProbably. Otherwise you'd remember a 4 Ele 1 Thief (started as a 5 Ele team) team winning an actual esports tournament. Hambow did a lot less damage then Cele D/D back then as well. They mainly generated might and spammed an ungodly amount(by the standard of that era anyway) of CC in teamfights. Turret Engi was also not a real problem either, it was just an obnoxious low effort build that required more time and effort to deal with compared to what it took to play it. Meanwhile Cele D/D was ever present in low levels of pvp up to the highest levels of the esports scene with its mixed bag of good sustain, good hybrid damage and relatively easy playstyle. And I don't think anyone who played Conquest during that time can forget how disgusting it became after they changed burning to stack in intensity and you could get ridiculous burning stacks by nudging the hitbox threshold of Ring of Fire when trying to fight inside it. Some of my absolute worst memories of this game is from that period of this game. Good times.