Birds and Slippery Slope Have Been Removed! — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Birds and Slippery Slope Have Been Removed!

Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭
                                                          There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
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  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    what will you cry for next?

    outflanked?

    "the harpies in uncategorized hit to hard when i try to skim them, outflanked needs to be removed"
    "siegemaster dulfy is too hard in urban battleground with outflanked i die even before i reach gate"
    " the adds in volcanic fractal are too strong with outflanked"
    " ..."

  • This change surprised me a lot. Were there that many complaints? Birds and Flux bomb were very similar at their core :/. Never had problems with those particular two :S

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:
    what will you cry for next?

    outflanked?

    "the harpies in uncategorized hit to hard when i try to skim them, outflanked needs to be removed"
    "siegemaster dulfy is too hard in urban battleground with outflanked i die even before i reach gate"
    " the adds in volcanic fractal are too strong with outflanked"
    " ..."

    Great suggestions hah!

    To be honest I only had problem with slippery slope in some areas the could have just turned it off and back on again through jumping areas and puzzles.

    Birds on the other hand was just flat out annoying. Making you waste dodges in critical areas and sometimes you were so congested you couldn't tell they were on you right away which would not be that big of deal other than the blinding and wasting skills. The big difference between Birds and Outflanked is one can be avoided for the most part and the other could not.

    This is not about skill its about the fun and replay ability to fractals. You will notice the amount of players doing fractals fluctuate depending on what fractal and instability set it has. Some people don't want the hassle. There needs to be a balance of difficult and fun and birds tended to move it rather drastically in the wrong direction.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2019

    @Excursion.9752 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    what will you cry for next?

    outflanked?

    "the harpies in uncategorized hit to hard when i try to skim them, outflanked needs to be removed"
    "siegemaster dulfy is too hard in urban battleground with outflanked i die even before i reach gate"
    " the adds in volcanic fractal are too strong with outflanked"
    " ..."

    Great suggestions hah!

    To be honest I only had problem with slippery slope in some areas the could have just turned it off and back on again through jumping areas and puzzles.

    Birds on the other hand was just flat out annoying. Making you waste dodges in critical areas and sometimes you were so congested you couldn't tell they were on you right away which would not be that big of deal other than the blinding and wasting skills. The big difference between Birds and Outflanked is one can be avoided for the most part and the other could not.

    This is not about skill its about the fun and replay ability to fractals. You will notice the amount of players doing fractals fluctuate depending on what fractal and instability set it has. Some people don't want the hassle. There needs to be a balance of difficult and fun and birds tended to move it rather drastically in the wrong direction.

    slippery slope was easy to deal with really, allow me to use my post from another thread

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean...molten boss fractal when you kill berserker first, then firestorm phases, and causes a tornado on the edges that "suck you off the border"

    that specific phase, IS exactly what slippery slope is. you get moved to a position you don't want to (sucked to the edge) so you counter it my moving to the oppsite direction (centre)

    result= you stay at your spot and are free to dps boss

    it's the exact kitten way with slippery slope, but god forbid we have to do something other then range from centre with 6k dps right (yes, had warriors using rifle....)

    if you can do molten boss, you can do slippery
    the issue here is not WANTING to do it, instead of not being ABLE to do it

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yay no more annoying birds! Praise Joko, the six, the pale tree, the eternal alchemy , the spirits and the legions six times!

    +++In creative mood. New Engie Elite spec' , Housing , New asuran expansion , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    +++NEW: AEP Asuran Expansion Project available on WIKI.
    +++New: GEM GW2 Exploration Map: Discover unusual places around tyria: Here (OSM map)

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    What are you guys so happy about? You do realize what this means and what this is? Instead of fixing instabilities, maybe add a real scaling system to gw2, they just removed the two deemed most annoying by a vocal minority, to appease that vocal minority.
    This fixes NOTHING. This still leaves RNG instabilities, a chaotic non-balancing and other way more problematic instabilities than these two. And now you can be sure, that nothing else will be done anymore. With the RNG instability system now firmly in place, fractals will bleed more and more players until fractals end up like dungeons. Because the problem never was slippery slope or birds. But whatever, go celebrate your pyrrhic victory ! You earned it.

  • DrFox.8091DrFox.8091 Member ✭✭
    edited March 26, 2019

    @hugo.4705 said:
    Yay no more annoying birds! Praise Joko, the six, the pale tree, the eternal alchemy , the spirits and the legions six times!

    Until now i used to worship the Mad King only.
    But yeah now I'll also pray for the Six, Spirits of the Wild, Eternal Alchemy and even... the Pale Tree.
    We'll always be grateful for this ! Especially fo slippery*

    Ps : cant pray for Joko's meat sorry =p

  • @Yasi.9065 said:
    What are you guys so happy about? You do realize what this means and what this is? Instead of fixing instabilities, maybe add a real scaling system to gw2, they just removed the two deemed most annoying by a vocal minority, to appease that vocal minority.
    This fixes NOTHING. This still leaves RNG instabilities, a chaotic non-balancing and other way more problematic instabilities than these two. And now you can be sure, that nothing else will be done anymore. With the RNG instability system now firmly in place, fractals will bleed more and more players until fractals end up like dungeons. Because the problem never was slippery slope or birds. But whatever, go celebrate your pyrrhic victory ! You earned it.

    What makes you think it's "instead of"? Left up to me, I would have left them instabs alone and worked on tweaking. However, given the levels of dislike from even calm|cool|collected players, maybe ANet was right to remove now, fix later instead of leave alone, fix later.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Memoranda.9386Memoranda.9386 Member ✭✭✭

    Glad birbs are gone.

    Extremely sad that Slippery Slope is gone. No more Sugar Rush/Slippery Slope/Social Awkwardness bumper car shenanigans.

    I would have preferred that Slippery Slope be blacklisted from more areas/Fractals.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Memoranda.9386 said:
    Glad birbs are gone.

    Extremely sad that Slippery Slope is gone. No more Sugar Rush/Slippery Slope/Social Awkwardness bumper car shenanigans.

    I would have preferred that Slippery Slope be blacklisted from more areas/Fractals.

    Don't give them any ideas or next istab will change randomly the movement direction keys, lol.
    Ooops

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Memoranda.9386Memoranda.9386 Member ✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Memoranda.9386 said:
    Glad birbs are gone.

    Extremely sad that Slippery Slope is gone. No more Sugar Rush/Slippery Slope/Social Awkwardness bumper car shenanigans.

    I would have preferred that Slippery Slope be blacklisted from more areas/Fractals.

    Don't give them any ideas or next istab will change randomly the movement direction keys, lol.
    Ooops

    I would immeadiately buy a toy that made the effect of Slippery Slope happen to your character. Just sayin', ANet.

  • Hex.2579Hex.2579 Member ✭✭✭

    @Memoranda.9386 said:
    Glad birbs are gone.

    Extremely sad that Slippery Slope is gone. No more Sugar Rush/Slippery Slope/Social Awkwardness bumper car shenanigans.

    I would have preferred that Slippery Slope be blacklisted from more areas/Fractals.

    yass. couldn't have spoken better. i'm glad birdies be gone. lol. but they could have been worked up for better targeting and tune into something instead of wasting everyone's dodge.

    i don't understand why slippery slope is gone though. it became my most favorite follow closely by social awkwardness cuz bumper car too xD
    it should have been dismissed from fractals that have a lot of dissapearing tiles or parts of fractals that you have to go through small tunnels/jumping parts. urgh i want it back.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hex.2579 said:

    i don't understand why slippery slope is gone though.

    Because almost nobody liked it. It wasn't a hard one just annoying and bad game design which lead to a massive decrease of players wanting to play fractals. End of story.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is a welcome change for any class who cares about positioning like daredevil/flanking thief/ranger and positional healers like renegade or certain builds like chronomancer. I'm glad Slippery Slope is gone.

    Didn't see the problem with birds outside Swampland fractal. Outlfnaked is actually much worse on Ascalonian fractal among other things but none of those are truly what one calls annoying like Slippery Slope.

  • stone cold.8609stone cold.8609 Member ✭✭✭

    Thank you very much! Time for me to go back into fractals!

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If it were up to me, I would just have changed the mechanics so they only trigger during combat.

    I guess ANet has the statistics to know whether these instabilities really impacted the playerbase in a negative way: they just have to count how many fractals are done daily, and cross that versus the anomalies present in them. As long as they do that sort of verification, it isn't wrong to consider "vocal minorities".

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Both instabilities were counter intuitive to the games basic design and mechanics, I've said so in the past. While I was fine with both, I did concede that people might find them not fun.

    Slipper Slope had no proper way to deal with, besides adapting to a new movement style and was also very different between classes affected. Classes with a lot of dodges or skill which reposition them (Daredevil, Mirage) were less affected, classes which were relying on precise positioning were very affected (Chrono wells).

    Birds was just completely counter designed to the games targeting and target caps. The damage was almost insignificant (especially after the initial nerf). Putting blind AND a target amount increase on one instability in a game with target caps of 3-5 while at the same time requiring the usage of a dodge was just to much. Could have been remedied by removing some of the elements as I had suggested (maybe just make birds blind you until dodge).

    I like the change to We Bleed Fire, makes bringing reflects even more useful encouraging creative game play (though I haven't seen the new one in action yet since I had done fractals yesterday pre patch).

  • Blueberry.8095Blueberry.8095 Member ✭✭
    edited March 27, 2019

    Thanks Anet for the removal! Hurray! No more motion sickness!

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hex.2579 said:

    @Memoranda.9386 said:
    Glad birbs are gone.

    Extremely sad that Slippery Slope is gone. No more Sugar Rush/Slippery Slope/Social Awkwardness bumper car shenanigans.

    I would have preferred that Slippery Slope be blacklisted from more areas/Fractals.

    yass. couldn't have spoken better. i'm glad birdies be gone. lol. but they could have been worked up for better targeting and tune into something instead of wasting everyone's dodge.

    i don't understand why slippery slope is gone though. it became my most favorite follow closely by social awkwardness cuz bumper car too xD
    it should have been dismissed from fractals that have a lot of dissapearing tiles or parts of fractals that you have to go through small tunnels/jumping parts. urgh i want it back.

    Because most Fractals vets surprisingly actually enjoy playing Fractals and GW2's combat, not bumper car, or at least not instead of Fractals.

    GW2's biggest strength is it's movement and combat systems, and that's the reason a majority of people return to play this content daily even after having done it literally hundreds of times for years.
    As much as a Minigame with Slippery Slope and Social Awkwardness mechanics could be fun to do now and then when you choose to do so (and could be a cool thing to add to the game somewhere), that's not what most people come to Fractals for.

    I see a lot of people screaming Git Gud and that people critical of Slippery were simply complainers who couldn't handle the "difficulty" of it, but the matter of fact is that I've never seen or heard of people unable to complete Fractals with Slippery on. While I'm sure they exist, it's certainly not the veteran players who have been complaining about Slippery Slope, nor any sort of majority.

    Slippery Slope simply changed the core gameplay of GW2, which most people come to enjoy when getting into endgame content like Fractals, too much.
    It was never about difficulty, it's about Fractals with Slippery not delivering the fun GW2 gameplay experience that the seemingly majority of players came for.

    Then it's simply a matter of the casual players who really enjoyed Slippery probably still joining Fractals at a similar frequency without Slippery for the rewards and good gameplay etc., while veteran players making up the important core of the player base of the mode, who already have everything but enjoy the gameplay, who care about speed, performance and efficiency, not leaving the gamemode in droves any more.

    It's a pretty clear decision to make, and I hope to see a lot of good players who have quit playing Fractals recently because this simply wasn't fun for them, coming back.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Asum.4960 said:
    I see a lot of people screaming Git Gud and that people critical of Slippery were simply complainers who couldn't handle the "difficulty" of it, but the matter of fact is that I've never seen or heard of people unable to complete Fractals with Slippery on. While I'm sure they exist, it's certainly not the veteran players who have been complaining about Slippery Slope, nor any sort of majority.

    Slippery Slope simply changed the core gameplay of GW2, which most people come to enjoy when getting into endgame content like Fractals, too much.
    It was never about difficulty, it's about Fractals with Slippery not delivering the fun GW2 gameplay experience that the seemingly majority of players came for.

    Then it's simply a matter of the casual players who really enjoyed Slippery probably still joining Fractals at a similar frequency without Slippery for the rewards and good gameplay etc., while veteran players making up the important core of the player base of the mode, who already have everything but enjoy the gameplay, who care about speed, performance and efficiency, not leaving the gamemode in droves any more.

    It's a pretty clear decision to make, and I hope to see a lot of good players who have quit playing Fractals recently because this simply wasn't fun for them, coming back.

    It may well be true that its more about enjoyment factor for the average player that the developers has to take into account. But I hold you and some of the other members of the gw2 community squarely responsible for making it harder for the average player to get use to and enjoy fractals by perpetuating the lie that there are no counters to Slippery Slope when Slippery Slope has more counters (movement weapon and util skills, traits that lowered those skill CDs and dodging) than birds (only dodging).

    Slippery Slope had been deliberately and falsely portrayed by some in the community as uncounterable. So when average players get into fractals they dont know how to counter it and gets no help from gw2 forums or reddit. Over time this drove negative sentiment towards this particular instability.

    Slippery slope being uncounterable is the biggest lie that i've seen told by some in the gw2 community since the game's release.

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    Would anyone happen to know whether player minions take the 100% hit from We Bleed Fire or reduced percentage (-95%) of it? If it’s 100%, our ‘minions’ are kinda screwed from the 6k fireballs from bosses (especially clones and phantasms as a class mechanic) but if not... it’s still kinda weird to have to AI tanking lethal balls of death for us, but if it works, then that’s fine I guess (flesh wurm on uncat is a thing so this wouldn’t be too weird).

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    Slippery Slope had been deliberately and falsely portrayed by some in the community as uncounterable. So when average players get into fractals they dont know how to counter it and gets no help from gw2 forums or reddit. Over time this drove negative sentiment towards this particular instability.

    Slippery slope being uncounterable is the biggest lie that i've seen told by some in the gw2 community since the game's release.

    You are talking so much bs here it's kinda embarrassing. I've yet to see any other discussion where people have used the word "counter" or anything like that. You're still riding a dead horse btw.

    Exactly proves my point. People like you have been telling lies about there being no counters to slippery slope when counters actually exist. You lot are part of the problem for the average player finding slippery slope "not fun" because they didn't know how to handle it and when they came to the forums and reddit they had no help. I am not beating a dead horse, the instability is removed but you and your lies remain.

    The main reason why people didn't like the instability is that it was unfun to play with and not that gazillions of players have looked for a way to counter it. We should feel sorry for you and understand you feel betrayed but when you come to a reasonable thinking some day you'll notice that this instability wasn't exactly what the devs had in mind when changing things.

    No, more player would have been fine with it if they understood how to counter it properly leading to less failure rate. By not telling them what the counters are and pretending counters don't exist contributes directly to over all player dissatisfaction. I think you are the one that is not thinking properly. What the devs had in mind is besides the point.

    Counters to slippery: dodge every time red circle appears under u, if ur out of dodges pray for ur healer to save u, cuz u won't be able to get out of it on time. I agree with previous guy. This instab was just unfun. If I fail in other instabs I know I did something bad and should changes something, if I fell out of the platform cuz of slippery, than yea... Git gut as u say, time to improve

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Counters to slippery: dodge every time red circle appears under u, if ur out of dodges pray for ur healer to save u, cuz u won't be able to get out of it on time. I agree with previous guy.

    Correct, it takes more skills to not constantly sacrifice dodges to counter slippery slope. You had to align your dodges more with enemy attacks so that you can dodge enemy attacks AND counter slippery slope at the same time. Just from your response I can tell you've never even thought about the counters before and never practiced the counters properly. Dodging being a counter does not mean you should be constantly using it, you still need to dodge other mechanics. Just like every other mechanics in the game there is a learning curve to conquer them. You may agree with the previous guy because you keep sliding off platforms, but that does not mean you are right logically.

    This instab was just unfun. If I fail in other instabs I know I did something bad and should changes something, if I fell out of the platform cuz of slippery, than yea... Git gut as u say, time to improve

    If you fell off the platform because of slippery slope it means 1) you don't know how to control slippery slope or don't understand what the counters were, 2) you ran out of counters to slippery slope. And yes, its a L2P issue, just that the learning was not immediately intuitive - especially so when a group of players on the forum and reddit constantly lie about there are no counters to slippery slope. As long as you understand all the counters any player can get better at slipper slope just like every other mechanic in the game.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Counters to slippery: dodge every time red circle appears under u, if ur out of dodges pray for ur healer to save u, cuz u won't be able to get out of it on time. I agree with previous guy.

    Correct, it takes more skills to not constantly sacrifice dodges to counter slippery slope. You had to align your dodges more with enemy attacks so that you can dodge enemy attacks AND counter slippery slope at the same time. Just from your response I can tell you've never even thought about the counters before and never practiced the counters properly. Dodging being a counter does not mean you should be constantly using it, you still need to dodge other mechanics. Just like every other mechanics in the game there is a learning curve to conquer them. You may agree with the previous guy because you keep sliding off platforms, but that does not mean you are right logically.

    This instab was just unfun. If I fail in other instabs I know I did something bad and should changes something, if I fell out of the platform cuz of slippery, than yea... Git gut as u say, time to improve

    If you fell off the platform because of slippery slope it means 1) you don't know how to control slippery slope or don't understand what the counters were, 2) you ran out of counters to slippery slope. And yes, its a L2P issue, just that the learning was not immediately intuitive - especially so when a group of players on the forum and reddit constantly lie about there are no counters to slippery slope. As long as you understand all the counters any player can get better at slipper slope just like every other mechanic in the game.

    boy, counter means, u do somethin, that not only stops the mechanic, it counterprevents them, so it gives u something for adjusting. like reflecting we bleed fire, staying together and shiton of other things u can do in this game. trying to catch the ground while sliding, has no counter at all. its just diffrent gameplay that may be liked by few veterans that are bored with the game, and casuals that like to slide between grawls on t2 fractals. i personally like the control i have in this game, all the skills that prevents other mobs/players from doing things, and losing this control is not any fun to around 95% of playerbase(at least those, i played with). try to do 100 cm b2 on slippery with just sidewalking all mechanics.
    Instabs should be something that can make the game difficult, but will help u if u adjust. meaning, adjusting to instabs can make run even shorter/easier. slippery slope is just additional effect that has nothing to do with adaptive gameplay.
    i dont know to which group of 2 i mentioned u belong, but ur a little minority, and telling others to improve cuz they dont know how to slide is problem u should look at.

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    boy, counter means, u do somethin, that not only stops the mechanic, it counterprevents them, so it gives u something for adjusting.

    So for slippery slope such as certain movement/teleport skills that partially or completely circumvents the sliding motion that slippery slope had on players are counters. Dodging completely stops the sliding motion is counter to slippery slope.

    trying to catch the ground while sliding, has no counter at all.

    Let me remind you, slippery slope does not lift the player into the air constantly, so you don't need to "catch the ground".

    i personally like the control i have in this game, all the skills that prevents other mobs/players from doing things, and losing this control is not any fun to around 95% of playerbase(at least those, i played with).

    Sure you are entitled to your preferences but that does not mean counters did not exist for slippery slope. Control of the character was still there under slippery slope. However you were required to understand the counters of slippery slope in order to control your character properly while under its effect. But since you thought there was no counter you didn't have control while people who understood the counters did in fact have control.

    try to do 100 cm b2 on slippery with just sidewalking all mechanics.

    I agree i would have had problems if i only "sidewalking" during 100cm b2 and didn't use any of the counters to my advantage. However because i actually understood the counters and used them to my advantage I had no problems with 100CM in general while under the effects of slippery slope on both my mirage and power reaper.

    Instabs should be something that can make the game difficult, but will help u if u adjust. meaning, adjusting to instabs can make run even shorter/easier. slippery slope is just additional effect that has nothing to do with adaptive gameplay.

    Indeed slippery slope did make the game more difficult and required players to be higher skilled in aligning their dodges more with the enemy attacks and not just spam it to counter slippery slope. However your problem was you thought there was no counter slippery slope so you stopped adjusting.

    i dont know to which group of 2 i mentioned u belong, but ur a little minority, and telling others to improve cuz they dont know how to slide is problem u should look at.

    Yes i am telling people they should have improved on using counters to slippery slope to their advantage and adapt just like how they adapt to any other instability. Something that alot of people did not consider was possible because they've been lied to and led to believe there was no counter to slippery slope when there was counters.

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Doesn't matter anyhow now since the instability got removed.

    What I care about is not necessarily the instability itself, but the perpetual lie told by some on this forum and on reddit that slippery slope did not have any counters when infact it did. This lie is partially to blame for the high failure rates of the average fractal runner under slippery slope that resulted in the eventual removal of this instability. This lie is still in effect after the instability got removed.

    Also not sure someone who plays Mirage in fractals should be giving other people advice on how to counter slippery slope, Mirage was the 1 class by far least affected (among all classes or builds mind you) by the instability with having both: multiple reposition skills (axe 3, Jaunt) as well as a unique dodge which kept you in place reducing required movement. Mirage was even superior to Daredevil as far as ease of use on slippery slope. Not sure telling other to get gud from that position is really fair since the amount of "being good" was vastly different on mirage compared to every other class.

    In my posts i've said as much some classes has more counters to slippery slope than others. I've played both extremes, mirage with alot of counters such as teleports and dodges as well as power reaper that has slow mobility, lack of teleports and only 2 dodges to counter slippery slope. It was fine in both instances.

  • Spike.5073Spike.5073 Member ✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    Mirage and Power Reaper are both the same extreme. Extremely easy and extremely bad.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    boy, counter means, u do somethin, that not only stops the mechanic, it counterprevents them, so it gives u something for adjusting.

    So for slippery slope such as certain movement/teleport skills that partially or completely circumvents the sliding motion that slippery slope had on players are counters. Dodging completely stops the sliding motion is counter to slippery slope.

    trying to catch the ground while sliding, has no counter at all.

    Let me remind you, slippery slope does not lift the player into the air constantly, so you don't need to "catch the ground".

    i personally like the control i have in this game, all the skills that prevents other mobs/players from doing things, and losing this control is not any fun to around 95% of playerbase(at least those, i played with).

    Sure you are entitled to your preferences but that does not mean counters did not exist for slippery slope. Control of the character was still there under slippery slope. However you were required to understand the counters of slippery slope in order to control your character properly while under its effect. But since you thought there was no counter you didn't have control while people who understood the counters did in fact have control.

    try to do 100 cm b2 on slippery with just sidewalking all mechanics.

    I agree i would have had problems if i only "sidewalking" during 100cm b2 and didn't use any of the counters to my advantage. However because i actually understood the counters and used them to my advantage I had no problems with 100CM in general while under the effects of slippery slope on both my mirage and power reaper.

    Instabs should be something that can make the game difficult, but will help u if u adjust. meaning, adjusting to instabs can make run even shorter/easier. slippery slope is just additional effect that has nothing to do with adaptive gameplay.

    Indeed slippery slope did make the game more difficult and required players to be higher skilled in aligning their dodges more with the enemy attacks and not just spam it to counter slippery slope. However your problem was you thought there was no counter slippery slope so you stopped adjusting.

    i dont know to which group of 2 i mentioned u belong, but ur a little minority, and telling others to improve cuz they dont know how to slide is problem u should look at.

    Yes i am telling people they should have improved on using counters to slippery slope to their advantage and adapt just like how they adapt to any other instability. Something that alot of people did not consider was possible because they've been lied to and led to believe there was no counter to slippery slope when there was counters.

    Reaper and mirage. Ok. So ur t2 casual that somehow got pulled thru t4s Arguing with u seems pointless, just read once again, what I wrote about COUNTERING instabs, not playing next to them and not dieing cuz of them, cuz u completely didn't get that point. Countering afflicted is bringing more resist, countering we bleed fire is bringing reflects, countering outflanked is to look around, etc etc. U can't COUNTER slippery... This instab was just changing ur gameplay, not making it challening

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    just read once again, what I wrote about COUNTERING instabs, not playing next to them and not dieing cuz of them, cuz u completely didn't get that point. Countering afflicted is bringing more resist, countering we bleed fire is bringing reflects, countering outflanked is to look around, etc etc. U can't COUNTER slippery... This instab was just changing ur gameplay, not making it challening

    So following your logic, why didn't you bring more teleports and dodges to counter slippery slope? The only reason you didn't is because you don't consider them as counters to slippery slope when they are in fact counters.

    Reaper and mirage. Ok. So ur t2 casual that somehow got pulled thru t4s Arguing with u seems pointless,

    Are you sure i'm a T2 casual when i clear CMs and T4s every day?

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:
    I see a lot of people screaming Git Gud and that people critical of Slippery were simply complainers who couldn't handle the "difficulty" of it, but the matter of fact is that I've never seen or heard of people unable to complete Fractals with Slippery on. While I'm sure they exist, it's certainly not the veteran players who have been complaining about Slippery Slope, nor any sort of majority.

    Slippery Slope simply changed the core gameplay of GW2, which most people come to enjoy when getting into endgame content like Fractals, too much.
    It was never about difficulty, it's about Fractals with Slippery not delivering the fun GW2 gameplay experience that the seemingly majority of players came for.

    Then it's simply a matter of the casual players who really enjoyed Slippery probably still joining Fractals at a similar frequency without Slippery for the rewards and good gameplay etc., while veteran players making up the important core of the player base of the mode, who already have everything but enjoy the gameplay, who care about speed, performance and efficiency, not leaving the gamemode in droves any more.

    It's a pretty clear decision to make, and I hope to see a lot of good players who have quit playing Fractals recently because this simply wasn't fun for them, coming back.

    It may well be true that its more about enjoyment factor for the average player that the developers has to take into account. But I hold you and some of the other members of the gw2 community squarely responsible for making it harder for the average player to get use to and enjoy fractals by perpetuating the lie that there are no counters to Slippery Slope when Slippery Slope has more counters (movement weapon and util skills, traits that lowered those skill CDs and dodging) than birds (only dodging).

    Slippery Slope had been deliberately and falsely portrayed by some in the community as uncounterable. So when average players get into fractals they dont know how to counter it and gets no help from gw2 forums or reddit. Over time this drove negative sentiment towards this particular instability.

    Slippery slope being uncounterable is the biggest lie that i've seen told by some in the gw2 community since the game's release.

    Having to bunny hop up every little incline etc. wasn't a "counter" to Slippery Slope, it's just a pure annoyance trying to play around it, but it's not countered. I don't know how that is so hard to understand.

    There were ways to play around Slippery Slope somewhat in some circumstances, all of them either obnoxious or ineffective in Fractals at large, but no counters.

    If I take Wall of Reflection, I actively delete We Bleed Fire as boss/instability mechanic with a player mechanic while participating in engaging gameplay, it's a counter.
    If I pull in and cleave down all adds and face the boss or remaining adds, Outflanked is completely countered using those mechanics and positioning, it doesn't affect you any more - it's countered.
    If you utilize the mechanic of Boon Rip, you delete No Pain No Gain and negate it's effects, it's countered.
    etc.
    Trying to obnoxiously tap my movement skills constantly in order to adjust sliding directions and so on still kept you permanently under the effect of Slippery Slope, which to an extend was worse/more annoying when moving between encounters a lot of times, than it was challenging in encounters.
    A permanent annoyance you can somewhat adjust to, to slightly improve the situation does not constitute a counter.

    That's at least my understanding of what constitutes counter mechanics and counter play. You do the thing that counters the thing, and then the thing doesn't bother you any more for a bit, until you have to counter it again.
    Slippery Slope and to some extend, although much less annoying, Social Awkwardness, do not provide that opportunity to counter it.
    It's just there, permanently altering the core game systems, such as movement and collision.
    The best "counter" I can come up with, is as you say blinks, which very few professions have access too, can't be provided by a support, and even if you bring them, counters the instability for a whopping 0.1 seconds to move somewhere without annoyance. Fantastic.

    And stop trying to weave things like "high failure rates" into your arguments, implying the problem with Slippery was a l2p issue.
    Slippery Slope was not difficult. Constantly tapping movement keys and bunny hopping was just annoying, but it's not like it took any skill.
    Holding me responsible for imaginary people maybe failing a Fractal because they didn't realise they could tap their keys or jump constantly to move around, not to counter Slippery Slope, but to somewhat ease it in an obnoxious way, because I say there isn't a proper counter, is pretty ridiculous.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:

    Having to bunny hop up every little incline etc. wasn't a "counter" to Slippery Slope, it's just a pure annoyance trying to play around it, but it's not countered. I don't know how that is so hard to understand.

    There were ways to play around Slippery Slope somewhat in some circumstances, all of them either obnoxious or ineffective in Fractals at large, but no counters.

    And I never said bunny hops are counters to slippery slope.

    If I take Wall of Reflection, I actively delete We Bleed Fire as boss/instability mechanic with a player mechanic while participating in engaging gameplay, it's a counter.
    If I pull in and cleave down all adds and face the boss or remaining adds, Outflanked is completely countered using those mechanics and positioning, it doesn't affect you any more - it's countered.
    If you utilize the mechanic of Boon Rip, you delete No Pain No Gain and negate it's effects, it's countered.
    etc.

    And so taken into context, slippery slope made movements between A to B more awkward and harder than it would normally be. Therefore counter to slippery slow means something that make it easier to get from A, the starting position, to B, the destination. And i'm only talking about during encounters here where it actually matters.

    Trying to obnoxiously tap my movement skills constantly in order to adjust sliding directions and so on still kept you permanently under the effect of Slippery Slope, which to an extend was worse/more annoying when moving between encounters a lot of times, than it was challenging in encounters.
    A permanent annoyance you can somewhat adjust to, to slightly improve the situation does not constitute a counter.

    I think you will find the vast majority of people who do have problems with slippery slope is a problem of not being able to finish encounters as easily without slippery slope than instead of the terrain between encounters. The terrains in between encounters anet should fix but this should not include the unintended shortcuts that you like so much. And as far as I know anet did turn off slippery slope for alot of the terrains in between encounters.

    That's at least my understanding of what constitutes counter mechanics and counter play. You do the thing that counters the thing, and then the thing doesn't bother you any more for a bit, until you have to counter it again.

    So once you move to the desired location B, you wont need to counter slippery slope anymore until you have to move again.

    Slippery Slope and to some extend, although much less annoying, Social Awkwardness, do not provide that opportunity to counter it.

    No only social awkwardness.

    It's just there, permanently altering the core game systems, such as movement and collision.
    The best "counter" I can come up with, is as you say blinks, which very few professions have access too, can't be provided by a support, and even if you bring them, counters the instability for a whopping 0.1 seconds to move somewhere without annoyance. Fantastic.

    That depends how good you are at using blinks. More importantly dodging is also a counter to slippery slope. And that is common between all classes.

    And stop trying to weave things like "high failure rates" into your arguments, implying the problem with Slippery was a l2p issue.

    It is absolutely a l2p issue. Once people understand what the counters are and learn how to use them more effectively they will have less problems with slippery slope.

    Slippery Slope was not difficult. Constantly tapping movement keys and bunny hopping was just annoying, but it's not like it took any skill.

    understanding counters to it and using it effectively takes some skills. particularly in aligning dodges with incoming attacks in order to save stamina.

    Holding me responsible for imaginary people maybe failing a Fractal because they didn't realise they could tap their keys or jump constantly to move around, not to counter Slippery Slope, but to somewhat ease it in an obnoxious way, because I say there isn't a proper counter, is pretty ridiculous.

    Yes because you keep telling peopel there are no counters to slippery slope when there are.

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭

    I only had a bit of annoyance twice with slippery slope. Once getting past the wind gusts on Deepstone which boiled down to me rushing to much. Then fighting Viirastra in Shattered Observatory. I was doing the orbs and I was sliding right through the marker every time I nova launched. Once I adjusted to aim before the marker so I would slide perfectly in the area there was no problem.

    I do have to say though I never had to much of a problem with any particular fractal having SS. It was the following fractal that didn't have SS that I would feel weird. Like my equilibrium was off and my fingers were dumb lol.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Don't bother arguing with him any longer. It's pointless. I agree to Cyninja, the issue has been solved and the annoyance is gone. I repeat SS had nothing to do with skill.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    u have rly big problems with understanding what counter is

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    Because you keep feeding them the lie that there was no counters to slippery slope. And then confirmation bias in your echo chamber ensued.

    I'm flattered, but you are vastly overstating my influence over the community and especially the devs.

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    To alleviate "suffering" is to counter it. What do you call cleaning conditions while under the instaiblity of inflicted if it's is not a counter?
    You mean like after picking up the treasure inside the cave in Siren's Reef? Dodging is not a counter against the movement debuff?

    Cleansing a condition removes it. Dodging doesn't disable Slippery Slope. Let's turn all condition cleanses into 0.75 seconds of Resistance, and see how well that counters high sustained condition pressure in the game.
    The counter mechanic to the increasing slow down debuff while holding a treasure is to throw it to team mates. If the debuff were permanent, dodging would hardly be a counter, would it?

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    Teleporting, movement skills, dodging does exactly that for slippery slope. Teleporting in particular completely circumvents the need to slide and dodging completely stops the sliding of slippery slope.

    Are you saying dodging and movement skills are not "actions" that are under the direct control of the player? They don't get disabled while you are sliding.

    It is permanently active but has zero effect while you are standing stationary. So unless you are moving your character you can consider it as "turned off". Standing still is what you would be doing after you had arrived at the desired destination.

    Movement is an integral part of GW2's combat system.
    Most movement skills were heavily affected by Slippery Slope, so that point is null.
    If you play a character that can almost exclusively move around utilizing Teleports, while being completely stationary for a majority of the content, then I have to say you are playing a completely different game than I am.

    You are making about as much sense as someone claiming just not moving or attacking at all was an adequate "counter" for condi Mirage in PvP, as if standing still and not attacking was a viable strategy to counter repeated Torment and Confusion bursts, actually getting you anywhere.

    Now I really don't like to write off peoples opinion with the accusation of Trolling, but If you are, then well done, it was fun.
    If you are not, then.. uff.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Memoranda.9386Memoranda.9386 Member ✭✭✭

    I've never heard of anyone failing an encounter because of Slippery Slope, not even in Deepstone or Shattered.

    Sure it's more annoying, but it's another obstacle to overcome. It was far less toxic than say, Birds. In fact, Slippery Slope had to make you a better player because positioning was very important to your success/failure.

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    Because you keep feeding them the lie that there was no counters to slippery slope. And then confirmation bias in your echo chamber ensued.

    I'm flattered, but you are vastly overstating my influence over the community and especially the devs.

    It wouldn't be just you. You're a part of it yes. So no need to feel too flattered.

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    To alleviate "suffering" is to counter it. What do you call cleaning conditions while under the instaiblity of inflicted if it's is not a counter?
    You mean like after picking up the treasure inside the cave in Siren's Reef? Dodging is not a counter against the movement debuff?

    Cleansing a condition removes it. Dodging doesn't disable Slippery Slope. Let's turn all condition cleanses into 0.75 seconds of Resistance, and see how well that counters high sustained condition pressure in the game.

    Resistence will counter it very well actually. There is close to 0 "high sustain condition pressure" in PVE. But unlike conditions slippery slope wont directly kill you.

    The counter mechanic to the increasing slow down debuff while holding a treasure is to throw it to team mates. If the debuff were permanent, dodging would hardly be a counter, would it?

    Except the debuff remains for a long period of time after you've thrown the treasure to team members. So what do players do then? they use movement skills and dodges to counter the debuff.

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    Teleporting, movement skills, dodging does exactly that for slippery slope. Teleporting in particular completely circumvents the need to slide and dodging completely stops the sliding of slippery slope.

    Are you saying dodging and movement skills are not "actions" that are under the direct control of the player? They don't get disabled while you are sliding.

    It is permanently active but has zero effect while you are standing stationary. So unless you are moving your character you can consider it as "turned off". Standing still is what you would be doing after you had arrived at the desired destination.

    Movement is an integral part of GW2's combat system.

    Positioning is important. Not randomly moving around.

    Most movement skills were heavily affected by Slippery Slope, so that point is null.

    And if you used the counters to slippery slope it would have affected your characters less.

    If you play a character that can almost exclusively move around utilizing Teleports, while being completely stationary for a majority of the content, then I have to say you are playing a completely different game than I am.

    No need, just 2 dodge bars with vigor + mobility potion will give your character plenty of dodges in fractals to counter slippery slope. Having additional movement skills and teleports simply makes it easier still.

    You are making about as much sense as someone claiming just not moving or attacking at all was an adequate "counter" for condi Mirage in PvP, as if standing still and not attacking was a viable strategy to counter repeated Torment and Confusion bursts, actually getting you anywhere.

    Thats only because you think characters actually need to constantly move around in fractals to survive. They dont. Decent groups will mostly stand in 1 area for periods of time and make small adjustments occationally. Which dodging will easily achieve that.

  • Rico.6873Rico.6873 Member ✭✭✭

    This is not about skill its about the fun and replay ability to fractals. You will notice the amount of players doing fractals fluctuate depending on what fractal and instability set it has. Some people don't want the hassle. There needs to be a balance of difficult and fun and birds tended to move it rather drastically in the wrong direction.

    slippery slope was easy to deal with really, allow me to use my post from another thread

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean...molten boss fractal when you kill berserker first, then firestorm phases, and causes a tornado on the edges that "suck you off the border"

    that specific phase, IS exactly what slippery slope is. you get moved to a position you don't want to (sucked to the edge) so you counter it my moving to the oppsite direction (centre)

    result= you stay at your spot and are free to dps boss

    it's the exact kitten way with slippery slope, but god forbid we have to do something other then range from centre with 6k dps right (yes, had warriors using rifle....)

    if you can do molten boss, you can do slippery
    the issue here is not WANTING to do it, instead of not being ABLE to do it

    Hah, try doing the already annoying Sirens with slippery and Birds at the end boss
    So annoying, getting a group to do this fractal was a pain

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rico.6873 said:
    Hah, try doing the already annoying Sirens with slippery and Birds at the end boss
    So annoying, getting a group to do this fractal was a pain

    Siren's Reef is not that bad really. The key to the last boss is high dps. Usually 3 people doing 20-30k each the boss will melt like around 2 min. Cleave, pulls to boss location and projectile block or reflect helps a bit too.

  • Rico.6873Rico.6873 Member ✭✭✭

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Rico.6873 said:
    Hah, try doing the already annoying Sirens with slippery and Birds at the end boss
    So annoying, getting a group to do this fractal was a pain

    Siren's Reef is not that bad really. The key to the last boss is high dps. Usually 3 people doing 20-30k each the boss will melt like around 2 min. Cleave, pulls to boss location and projectile block or reflect helps a bit too.

    Maybe with a static group this feat is easy to do, but with a pug this boss and fractal with the right instabilities is a freaking nightmare
    Slippery slope coupled with birds and we are on fire with the last boss is insane for a daily fractal run with a pug
    It can be done of course, if you leave the group and look for a new one and hope for the best

    But not every group can switch into whatever is needed to do a fractal, T4 fractals are not meant to be Challenge mode content
    We have a option to make it CM content and not everybody is doing that for a special reason

    If you want it back then ask the devs to add it to CM because thats what it is a challenge, not something thats fun for everybody

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rico.6873 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Rico.6873 said:
    Hah, try doing the already annoying Sirens with slippery and Birds at the end boss
    So annoying, getting a group to do this fractal was a pain

    Siren's Reef is not that bad really. The key to the last boss is high dps. Usually 3 people doing 20-30k each the boss will melt like around 2 min. Cleave, pulls to boss location and projectile block or reflect helps a bit too.

    Maybe with a static group this feat is easy to do, but with a pug this boss and fractal with the right instabilities is a freaking nightmare
    Slippery slope coupled with birds and we are on fire with the last boss is insane for a daily fractal run with a pug
    It can be done of course, if you leave the group and look for a new one and hope for the best

    You are right in that the quality of players can vary greatly in PUGs/LFG. But keep in mind that easy kill for the last boss in siren's reef is possible and you shoudl personally aim to be able to play at a higher level over time. Theres really no success without failure.

    But not every group can switch into whatever is needed to do a fractal, T4 fractals are not meant to be Challenge mode content
    We have a option to make it CM content and not everybody is doing that for a special reason

    If you want it back then ask the devs to add it to CM because thats what it is a challenge, not something thats fun for everybody

    My personal opinion on this is either CM mode or give more rewards by default for clearing certain harder instability combinations for certain fractals. So player will feel that its more worth their time investment to improve.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    My personal opinion on this is either CM mode or give more rewards by default for clearing certain harder instability combinations for certain fractals. So player will feel that its more worth their time investment to improve.

    So what is harder instabilities in your opinion?

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2019

    @phs.6089 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    My personal opinion on this is either CM mode or give more rewards by default for clearing certain harder instability combinations for certain fractals. So player will feel that its more worth their time investment to improve.

    So what is harder instabilities in your opinion?

    Harder instability combinations you mean?

    Hmm. For an extra mystic coin for clearing maybe something like ....
    Slippery slope, outflanked and we breath fire for Siren's Reef.
    Outflanked, Social Awkwardness, Toxic trail for Nightmare.
    Slippery slope, we breath fire, fractal vindicator for shattered observatory.
    Afflicted, flux bomb, fractal vindicator for Twilight

    Just to name a few.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    My personal opinion on this is either CM mode or give more rewards by default for clearing certain harder instability combinations for certain fractals. So player will feel that its more worth their time investment to improve.

    So what is harder instabilities in your opinion?

    Harder instability combinations you mean?

    Hmm. For an extra mystic coin for clearing maybe something like ....
    Slippery slope, outflanked and we breath fire for Siren's Reef.
    Outflanked, Social Awkwardness, Toxic trail for Nightmare.
    Slippery slope, we breath fire, fractal vindicator for shattered observatory.
    Afflicted, flux bomb, fractal vindicator for Twilight

    Just to name a few.

    Ah, so its about the reward. I'm sure Arena would be happy to create another mode for another level of elitism in game

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."